Quick Chemistry Question!

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Does vinegar count as a base (as opposed to acidic compound)?

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 15
    enaena Posts: 667member
    vinegar is an acid





    (take some purple cabbage leaves, and boil them for 1 hour. then soak the juice into a coffee filter to make litmus paper)
  • Reply 2 of 15
    vandewaalsvandewaals Posts: 450member
    It's an acid (acetic acid to be precise). And I bet you're asking because you're saying to yourself "Well....it disassociates into CH3COO- and H+...and CH3COO- is a base right?". Well, yes it is a base (being the conjugate of an acid), but the acetic acid only disassociates to a small extent (look at its Ka), so the majority of it in the vinegar is still CH3COOH.
  • Reply 3 of 15
    randycat99randycat99 Posts: 1,919member
    Well, damnit! Actually, my question is nowhere near inspired by any sort of scientific pondering. I thought I heard a loooong time ago that it was a base, but I guess I was mistaken.



    This all comes from one thing- spaghetti. I like the idea of that Ragu sauce and meat already combined in a jar. It's got a nice "filling" sensation compared to when I just use the plain Ragu sauce (and I'm too lazy to stock/prepare my own ground beef to add to the sauce). There's one problem- it has a subtle "sour" or tarty taste that doesn't seem to belong in a spaghetti flavor. So my hunch is that the processed meat is somehow reacting with the processed tomato constituents such that acid is being created, thus the "sour" taste component. So I reason, if you add some sort of food additive that is a base (and is edible, of course, and preferrably tastless), could that counteract some of the acid in the sauce/meat mix and thus tone down the "sour"? I thought a slight addition of vinegar might do the trick, but since it turns out to not be a base afterall, that idea is blown. Question is- is there a base sort of additive for food that could work here?



    Crazy topic, eh?
  • Reply 4 of 15
    vandewaalsvandewaals Posts: 450member
    The acidity you're getting is probably from the tomatoes. A lot of people add a little dash of sugar to their pasta sauce to "balance" the sour. My buddy's mom makes a pasta sauce to die for (its called gravey, which may be a North End, Boston thing) and I'm positive that some sugar gets tossed in there.



    I think with food in general (and I'm no chef, its just what I heard) sweet is used to balance sour. Also, Ragu is not my favorite brand of premade sauce. Prego is a superior product in my opinion .
  • Reply 5 of 15
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Tomatoes are *very* acidic. Definitely add a bit of sugar.
  • Reply 6 of 15
    liquidrliquidr Posts: 884member
    Yup, an acid. the same as Stop bath in film processing, so with the right dilution you could use reg. household vinegar to stop development in paper and film processing. It counters the alkali in the developer.
  • Reply 7 of 15
    lucaluca Posts: 3,833member
    A sour taste is often associated with acids. Citrus fruits are very acidic. The taste associated with bases is bitterness... I don't think grapefruits are basic, even though they're bitter, but soap is basic. If you've ever tasted a little bit of soap you know it's really bitter.
  • Reply 8 of 15
    billybobskybillybobsky Posts: 1,914member
    Check the sauce container...



    It should say citric acid, sodium citrate or potassium citrate.... or some other buffer combination. Most foods are buffered around a certain pH, as is shampoo etc... The reason is precisely that which you mentioned, when things decompose they have a tendency to change the pH of the solution, preservatives counter many of the microbiotic growth but dont prevent self-decomposition...
  • Reply 9 of 15
    ast3r3xast3r3x Posts: 5,012member
    my dad makes his own sauce, and i've NEVER had anything as good



    its full of meat, and i havn't tried the sauces coming out now with meat in but i never liked them before (at least in comparison to my dad's) so i dont think i'd like them just because they added meat





    my dad's is REALLY thick tomato sauce, its not very runny
  • Reply 10 of 15
    jesperasjesperas Posts: 524member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Randycat99

    Question is- is there a base sort of additive for food that could work here?





    Adding cream to the sauce cuts down on the acidic taste. Also sugar, as mentioned earlier. If you make your sauce from scratch, the juices from the meat (don't drain the fat ) cuts the acidic taste as well.
  • Reply 11 of 15
    709709 Posts: 2,016member
    If you're making sauce from scratch I'd suggest grating a couple of carrots into the sauce as opposed to just adding sugar. I have a quirky aversion to throwing sugar into tomato sauce as most American red sauces are far too sweet for me. The natural sugar in carrots is a nice substitute...
  • Reply 12 of 15
    randycat99randycat99 Posts: 1,919member
    EXCELLENT suggestions from everyone! Thank you very much. Can't wait to try them out. The sugar idea sounds good, but I have a feeling the milk/cream idea could really do the trick!



    Per ast3r3x's post, I didn't mean to imply that any sauce that contains tomatos and meat would end up tangy (that's the word I was actually looking for, but couldn't think of it yesterday). I think when it is made fresh, you certainly get the best flavor, as there is no time for anything to "change" and grow more acidic. I certainly concur with your observation, as my memory of Mom's spaghetti (sauce made from scratch) is the best ever that I recall to this day. I don't ever premise that I could achieve that standard of flavor with mere Ragu sauce, but if I could just find a way to ditch some of the tanginess, I think that would be a great improvement to my "bachelor's life" experience.
  • Reply 13 of 15
    ast3r3xast3r3x Posts: 5,012member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Randycat99

    EXCELLENT suggestions from everyone! Thank you very much. Can't wait to try them out. The sugar idea sounds good, but I have a feeling the milk/cream idea could really do the trick!



    Per ast3r3x's post, I didn't mean to imply that any sauce that contains tomatos and meat would end up tangy (that's the word I was actually looking for, but couldn't think of it yesterday). I think when it is made fresh, you certainly get the best flavor, as there is no time for anything to "change" and grow more acidic. I certainly concur with your observation, as my memory of Mom's spaghetti (sauce made from scratch) is the best ever that I recall to this day. I don't ever premise that I could achieve that standard of flavor with mere Ragu sauce, but if I could just find a way to ditch some of the tanginess, I think that would be a great improvement to my "bachelor's life" experience.




    i understand i wasn't inferring you did, i was just stating a useless fact about me...and now u know something about me
  • Reply 14 of 15
    jesperasjesperas Posts: 524member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Randycat99

    I have a feeling the milk/cream idea could really do the trick!









    For best results, use cream--light or heavy. Milk and half-and-half are too thin, and will make your sauce watery.



    Using real parmassan or romano cheese (not that stuff in the green can) also makes a difference.
  • Reply 15 of 15
    klinuxklinux Posts: 453member
    Vinegar is 5% (or lower) acetic acid. Very very few food is basic.



    Technically, by adding cream to "spaghetti" (do you mean marina sauce) you are making another kind of sauce. Also, by adding meat to it, you are actually making a semi-Bolognese sauce (I added semi because Bolognese typically has more than just one kind of meat).



    Sorry, didn't mean to get all foodie on you.
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