Carbeurators vs Fuel Injection

steve666 · May 14, 2003 9:32PM

I just bought a used car-1989 Honda Accord LX. The car is in

great shape and had it checked out by a mechanic and

everything. I researched it and read customer reviews on

epinions.com and almost all seem to love the car.

Yes, I did my research except one thing-I didnt make sure it

was fuel injected. I assumed it was since it was an '89 car and after test driving it because it started without holding the gas pedal down (I guess because it was warm already) and it had nice pickup.

Well, to my surprise after buying it it turns out it is a

engine with a 2 bbl carbeurator. Should I hang myself from the nearest tree or am I agonizing over nothing? Right now I feel like an idiot and I hope I didnt make a big mistake, although I never read any complaints or even a mention of the fact that it has a carb.............................................. .................

randycat99 · May 14, 2003 10:19PM

It's probably fine. As you get to higher and higher performance applications, then you can count on finicky carb performance (with requisite tweaking and tuning to maintain a certain level of performance). For your setup, you can just look forward to the routine re-adjustment when you go in for a tune-up (and maybe an optional adjustment when going from winter to summer and vice versa seasons).

steve666 · May 15, 2003 3:29PM

Thanks for the reply. Well, I just registered it and got to drive it today. It starts up right away which is good but it is sluggish off the line. My 1986 Mazda 626 had only a 93 hp engine but was fuel injected and had much better pick up. The Accord has 98 hp but the car is 150 lbs heavier. I guess the carb really does slow things a bit. The previous owner suggested using Premium Unleaded even though the car only requires 86 octane. He said the car had more pickup using premium so i guess I can try that. I'll also put in one of those Techron carb cleaning gasoline additives.

The worst part of the car is the seat. The lumbar support is intrusive and it cant be adjusted. I will try to search for some kind of cushion or something-maybe if I'm raised up a little it will hit my back in a better spot.........................

splinemodel · May 15, 2003 4:26PM

That's why you never buy a used car until you've

1) driven it

2) checked under the hood

3) Done a compression test

steve666 · May 15, 2003 5:30PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Splinemodel

That's why you never buy a used car until you've

1) driven it

2) checked under the hood

3) Done a compression test

Believe it or not i did 2 out of the 3. Actually I dont know if the mechanic did a compression test but i paid him $60 to check out the entire car and test drive it.

I drove it myself but apparently not for nearly long enough because it actually felt peppy enough in my short drive to assume it was fuel injected. I wasnt crazy about the seat but it was too short a drive to really know.

I will remember to always look under the hood, even if I plan to have it checked out. And to make sure its fuel injected!......................................... ...............

randycat99 · May 15, 2003 5:45PM

I don't think the premium octane will do anything for you (other than costing you more), unless you are already having problems with detonation or pinging. If you are experiencing those problems, then you have another problem in front of you altogether (not just the choice of using a higher than specified octane). The "more pickup" idea is largely an urban myth (excluding those cases where the car was actually designed for 92 octane and some nitwit actually tried 87 in it to see a difference).

A properly operating carburetor shouldn't inherently give you any less "pep" than a fuel injected setup. Remember, carburetors were used quite successfully in far larger, more powerful engines as well as super-exotic cars before fuel injection ever came around. Possibly, a carb could be more fussy over a wider range of adverse operating conditions, but under reasonably typical conditions it should perform quite acceptably. Perhaps a carburetor cleaning could restore nominal performance?

steve666 · May 15, 2003 5:50PM

Thanks. Its definitely not pinging so i wont bother with the premium gas.

I have to bring it in for an inspection within 10 days so i will look into having them clean the carbeurator and see what the mechanic says about the lack of pep. He's the one who checked out the car for me and gave it a thumbs up, at least said that it was in good shape with no major problems that he could see. I just hope this sucker is reliable......................

randycat99 · May 15, 2003 6:03PM

FWIW, Honda tends to run with engines that favor upper rpms, so that could be a source for "missing" low end pep. I imagine a Mazda 626 would be tuned for performance at more moderate rpms, so that would tend to fill in the low end better, as you have become accustomed. Comparing hp ratings isn't always consistent with what you feel because the hp rating is based on output at a single (near max) rpm. This, of course, tells you nothing about the character of the output throughout the rpm range that exists below that rating (which greatly contributes to what you actually feel when you are using the engine).

steve666 · May 15, 2003 6:07PM

That sounds like it would be the difference. In the review mags i read many model years of Hondas always say the automatic saps a lot of the engines power. Ironically in the 1989 model it said that the engine faired equally well wih the manual or automatic. I guess I will have to get used to it unless the mechanic can make an adjustment or if it needs cleaning. I'll use the gas additive cleaner also...................

mediaman · May 15, 2003 6:09PM

There isn't anything inherantely wrong with carbs. The main reason why most of the auto industry moved over to injection in the mid 90's was emission laws & catalitic converters.

A carb is esentially a mecanical device, that is very dificult to control via a computer, a injection system on the other hand relies on computer control.

The computer is required to control the flow of gas in to the engine to make sure the exhaust gas doesn't damage the cat , the computer can also control the preformance and make sure the engine is running at maximum efficiency.

steve666 · May 15, 2003 6:13PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mediaman

There isn't anything inherantely wrong with carbs. The main reason why most of the auto industry moved over to injection in the mid 90's was emission laws & catalitic converters.

A carb is esentially a mecanical device, that is very dificult to control via a computer, a injection system on the other hand relies on computer control.

The computer is required to control the flow of gas in to the engine to make sure the exhaust gas doesn't damage the cat , the computer can also control the preformance and make sure the engine is running at maximum efficiency.

Thats what I like about fuel injection. Turn the key, you're off. No adjustments to make and the engine almost always feels the same, unless the fuel injectors clog or a sensor goes bad.

I guess thats one advantage with carbs, no sensors to go bad................

randycat99 · May 15, 2003 6:55PM

Quote:

Originally posted by steve666

That sounds like it would be the difference. In the review mags i read many model years of Hondas always say the automatic saps a lot of the engines power.

My personal theory on that is that automatics aren't inherently bad either, but they do work best with an engine that has good, wide torque response. Honda engines are not known for particularly impressive torque outputs, so coupling them to an auto can be a premise fraught with disappointment (since most devoted Honda owners would be hard-pressed to think there is anything bad about a Honda engine, naturally the auto tranny gets the blame). Good torque characteristic is much the domain of larger American engines- usually a V6 or V8. That's where automatics really take on a shine.

steve666 · May 15, 2003 7:00PM

Yeh, i think the little 4 cylinders in general arent great with automatics. My Mazda had better pickup than this Honda though so it must have a higher torque rating at a lower rpm. I have to get it to the mechanic so he can check the carb before I determine that this car is a dog.

I also have to find a seat cover that helps make the seat more comfortable. Too much lumbar support-its digging into my back. Toyota's and mazda's seem to have more comfortable seats, at least for my back.......................................

randycat99 · May 15, 2003 7:11PM

Hey, you could always add a supercharger kit to your Honda. That will certainly give you "pep" and then some. I hear they are fairly accessible amongst the Honda tuner crowd. ...and then you will actually be able to put that 92 oct to good use.

I tend to agree with your comment about 4-cyl's and automatics. The base engine in a Nissan Sentra with auto is utterly ridiculous (IMO) wrt "pep". However, the larger engine option in there (2.4 L?) is quite impressive. It's got some torque backing it up. I don't recall if the auto is available with that engine, though, but I'm sure it would do quite well once you have an engine of that caliber driving it.

steve666 · May 15, 2003 7:16PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randycat99

Hey, you could always add a supercharger kit to your Honda. That will certainly give you "pep" and then some. I hear they are fairly accessible amongst the Honda tuner crowd. ...and then you will actually be able to put that 92 oct to good use.

I'll be happy if I can just make the seat more confortable-I may have to live with the slow pickup because i dont want to put much money into this car.....................................

randycat99 · May 15, 2003 7:18PM

Quite understandable! I only said that in jest, of course.

steve666 · May 15, 2003 7:21PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randycat99

Quite understandable! I only said that in jest, of course.

Actually a guy I work with said that there is something to add to the Honda carb engine. i forgot what he called it-a thruster or something. But you're right, i ain't a tuner!...............

randycat99 · May 15, 2003 7:44PM

Beats me! Never heard of a "thruster". Maybe it is something like an upgraded fuel jet. Whatever you do, don't fall for that "spinner" add-on that goes inside your intake tract (essentially a little windmill that just spins in the wind).

steve666 · May 15, 2003 9:18PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randycat99

Beats me! Never heard of a "thruster". Maybe it is something like an upgraded fuel jet. Whatever you do, don't fall for that "spinner" add-on that goes inside your intake tract (essentially a little windmill that just spins in the wind).

nah. Im not going to do anything to it other than try to keep it adjusted properly and clean. If i dont get used to the seats though it looks like I'll be in the market again for another used car. Oh joy.........................................

gardenofearthlydelights · May 16, 2003 9:00PM

Are you sure this has a normal carburator? The auto industry hasn't sold cars with plain "carburators" since the early 1980s. Most cars sold in the 1980s were throttle-body injection (TBI) engines. It still uses a carburator, but the fuel is metered more precisely. Today's cars use a variation of this, but are more sophisticated.

I think you're worrying about nothing. It's an old car. Relax.

steve666 · May 16, 2003 9:05PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GardenOfEarthlyDelights

Are you sure this has a normal carburator? The auto industry hasn't sold cars with plain "carburators" since the early 1980s. Most cars sold in the 1980s were throttle-body injection (TBI) engines. It still uses a carburator, but the fuel is metered more precisely. Today's cars use a variation of this, but are more sophisticated.

I think you're worrying about nothing. It's an old car. Relax.

Not sure what type it is, but I know its a 2 bbl carb. But you're right, i dont think its a big deal and neither does the mechanic who originally checked it out for me. I drove it again today and the pickup seemed fine-I guess I have to get the old car out of my system and get used to this one.

Strange thing though-I live in NY and after registering the car the DMV told me I have to get the car inspected even though the previous owner did it in February of this year. I called the mechanic and he told me not to bother since the sticker for the inspection doesnt have a license plate number on it. Any opinions on whether I should get the inspection or not?.............................................. ..

Carbeurators vs Fuel Injection

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