I think you deserved that remark. You said something equally stupid.
What did I say that was so stupid?
That Apple focuses on America first because they are an American company?
Or that you calling me a "dufus" was childish?
I don't see either one of these being remotely as "stupid" as saying that all people of a certain country deserve to die because they get Apple stuff first.
You posted that Apple is a US company, and so focuses on the US.
I don't care. No-one cares what lame reasons you or Apple has, we just don't like being treated as 2nd-class Mac users. No-one likes being treated as 2nd class anything.
Your irrelevent "critique" of my joke didn't help your cause either. It was a stupid statement (from the lyrics of a very fine band), and your statement was almost as stupid.
No-one deserves to die, and no-one likes being treated as 2nd class citizens. Nothing will change that.
I don't care. No-one cares what lame reasons you or Apple has, we just don't like being treated as 2nd-class Mac users.
Hmm. You realize it's not on purpose, right? Steve Jobs doesn't wake up in the morning thinking "How can I make international users feel slighted today?" Doing global business is tough. Every country has import/export hoops, different laws and regulations, language issues... Take iTMS and Sherlock. Clearly, it isn't Apple that's holding back an internation iTMS - it's an impenetrable web of licensing issues that have to first be resolved by the RIAA, which then has to make specific agreements with Apple. It's a big pain in the ass. And if the RIAA says no, then too bad for Apple, and for you.
Or Sherlock. Yeah, it's a nifty tool, but it requires a vast amount of data from third parties to function. Is Apple really in the business of maintaining a database of all theaters and movie times, everywhere in the world? Yahoo maps, for example, only covers the US, Canada, and a handful of (large) European countries. The infrastructure to do Sherlock outside the US just doesn't exist, and would be very expensive to build from scratch.
Then there's languages. Yeah, I'd be mad if I had to wait a few months to get my Sweedishchefian version of Panther. But would it be better to delay Panther's roll out for a year or two while Apple translates it into 4,372 different languages?
Apple is a US company. Most of Apple's customers are in the US. Most of Apple's sales are in the US. Apple operates "natively" under US law. None of that will change in the near future. You can get mad at it, but it's a pretty unproductive kind of mad. If it bothers so much that you have to rely on a US company, then invest/join/start/patronize a local software company. If enough folks did that, not only might Apple TryHarder, but you'd give a nice scare to Microsoft, too.
I do realise it's not on purpose. That's exactly my point.
Apple may have good business reasons for the Power Mac line sucking, iTMS, iPhotos and Sherlock not being available outside the US, Apple not advertising enough here, Apple Australia having really CRAP customer relations....
As a consumer, I DO NOT CARE. This thread is about international consumers being angry about Apple being US centric. It doesn't matter what good reasons exist TO APPLE, int'l consumers will continue to be angry. Because the only thing good from a consumer perspective is:
1) Good Product
2) Good Support
3) Good Price
Now, Apple Australia has achieved #3 (how ironic), but has failed at #1 and #2.
Clearly, it isn't Apple that's holding back an internation iTMS - it's an impenetrable web of licensing issues that have to first be resolved by the RIAA, which then has to make specific agreements with Apple. It's a big pain in the ass. And if the RIAA says no, then too bad for Apple, and for you.
It's not the RIAA. The Recording Industry Assholes of America are a lobby group, not the actual copyright holders. In fact, it's remarkably more complex than that. You see, under int'l copyright law, a copyright holder specifies an importer for each country. If no importer is specified, then no (legal) product. Apple has to talk to each specified importer, which magnifies the problem 100X. Horray for the f*cked up IP system!
Or Sherlock. Yeah, it's a nifty tool, but it requires a vast amount of data from third parties to function. Is Apple really in the business of maintaining a database of all theaters and movie times, everywhere in the world? Yahoo maps, for example, only covers the US, Canada, and a handful of (large) European countries. The infrastructure to do Sherlock outside the US just doesn't exist, and would be very expensive to build from scratch.
Apple America isn't in that business. But you obviously have no idea about how Apple is structured internationally. There is a semi-independant Apple company for virtually every country in the world, and they have the funds they should be using for this kind of localisation.
Then there's languages. Yeah, I'd be mad if I had to wait a few months to get my Sweedishchefian version of Panther. But would it be better to delay Panther's roll out for a year or two while Apple translates it into 4,372 different languages?
Apple's pretty good with languages actually. Especially with Mac OS X.
Going back to my point, as a consumer I simply don't care about what's good for a corperation, just for myself. Hence I'm a bit irritated about the failings of Apple Australia.
Barto, I feel for you. Really. Though I'm fully aware it won't make you feel better.
It takes at least a month to bring first copies of major OS updates to Russia. Moreover, every time I call Apple IMC (Apple's official representatives here) to ask when the hell I can get my OS 10.x CDs for $130 (not a small sum of money for a country where 99% software is pirated), I hear: "Huh? err, what OS 10 err... how did you say? Well, hmmm, dunno. You can wait a couple of months, I hear new Macs are comin' with that thing included. Come to us, we'll burn it for you for $5. Wanna buy it?! What the fu... what for? Hmmm. Can't help you now. Call someone else. Dealers, mebbe. Dunno. Heh. Did you see it already? You know QuarkXPress doesn't like it. What else could you want it for?" I usually make such calls about 20-30 times before actually being able to buy it. Probably, some people call it international business, a matter of marketshare, quality of support, etc. They just don't exist in many countries. I can't say Russia is one of the poorest countries since Moscow is flooded with car brands like Bentley, Mercedez, BMW, Alfa Romeo and Chevrolet. The same people don't have spare 30 bucks for a disk-repairing utility. And it looks like nobody even tries to offer any software for sale any more. Last time I checked for Maya, it was less of a headache to buy it for $3 in the corner than to find an official box.
Hmm. You realize it's not on purpose, right? Steve Jobs doesn't wake up in the morning thinking "How can I make international users feel slighted today?" Doing global business is tough. Every country has import/export hoops, different laws and regulations, language issues... Take iTMS and Sherlock. Clearly, it isn't Apple that's holding back an internation iTMS - it's an impenetrable web of licensing issues that have to first be resolved by the RIAA, which then has to make specific agreements with Apple. It's a big pain in the ass. And if the RIAA says no, then too bad for Apple, and for you.
Or Sherlock. Yeah, it's a nifty tool, but it requires a vast amount of data from third parties to function. Is Apple really in the business of maintaining a database of all theaters and movie times, everywhere in the world? Yahoo maps, for example, only covers the US, Canada, and a handful of (large) European countries. The infrastructure to do Sherlock outside the US just doesn't exist, and would be very expensive to build from scratch.
Then there's languages. Yeah, I'd be mad if I had to wait a few months to get my Sweedishchefian version of Panther. But would it be better to delay Panther's roll out for a year or two while Apple translates it into 4,372 different languages?
Well M$ and linux vendors dont seem to have a problem with getting true international versions out.
The point is, is that if your shipping your product to other countries then you should have localisation for the countries you shipping too. And this bull about APPLE IS MADE IN THE USA SO WE GET THE GOODIES FIRST is an attitude that will get you know where. As i said if yer shipping and have stores in other countries you should have the localisation in place before you ship the said product.
Well M$ and linux vendors dont seem to have a problem with getting true international versions out....if yer shipping and have stores in other countries you should have the localisation in place before you ship the said product.
M$ has quarterly profits that exceed Apple's yearly revenues. Yet they too have localization issues - see the recent brouhaha over Hebrew and Arabic versions (or lack thereof) of M$'s products. As for Linux...well, that's one of the many virtues of open source, isn't it? Anyone who cares can code up a localized Linux distro. As long as OSX remains closed-source, however, that's not a valid model for Apple to follow.
Your conclusion I just don't get. You'd rather not have Apple products at all than have them with less-than-perfect support? I suspect that's an exaggeration driven by frustration, or you wouldn't be on these forums.
I think a major issue, as far as Apple services goes (Sherlock et al.) is the lack of infrastructure outside the US. Maybe someone in Europe can tell me if you all have access to local versions of MapQuest, MovieTickets.com, Orbitz, etc etc. Apple USA doesn't own any of these services, they just use their data. Apple France may be an "independent" company, but it surely doesn't have the resources to make on its own what's taken hundreds of companies to make here in the USA. But, if I'm wrong, and all these services already exist, then go ahead and blame Apple. Even so, each "foreign" Apple has only a tiny fraction of the resources of Apple USA - and would have to fund programs similar in scale to those in the US.
M$ has quarterly profits that exceed Apple's yearly revenues. Yet they too have localization issues - see the recent brouhaha over Hebrew and Arabic versions (or lack thereof) of M$'s products.
This makes me realize that I actually am working on an International English version of OS X (well, if you can actually say version, seeing all supported languages are included these days). I have never been happy to work on a Dutch (my language) version, and I know many others who are, consciously or unconsciously, in the same situation. But then again, I do use a localized keyboard layout (good ole' azerty). It's not that easy, all this localizing, I'll be the first to admit that, and they DO offer a lot of services (if not close to all) in my language. The main issue for me remains Sherlock (albeit, again, that I can translate into and from my language with it). All in all, I'd give Apple a 6, maybe a 7, out of 10 for their international attitude.
Your conclusion I just don't get. You'd rather not have Apple products at all than have them with less-than-perfect support? I suspect that's an exaggeration driven by frustration, or you wouldn't be on these forums.
[/B]
Dont know where you got that conclusion from seeing as i never said i rather not have apple products.
I love macs, its the attitude of some people that use them that gets me.
for example: " you goddamn english limey, this is our country and we only make software that focuses on the states, if you dont like it, well hey you must be a terrorist"
It appears that macs are so easy to use that even rednecks use them.
Dont know where you got that conclusion from seeing as i never said i rather not have apple products.
I guess I misinterpreted "The point is, is that if your shipping your product to other countries then you should have localisation for the countries you shipping too."
Anyway, "this is our country and we only make software that focuses on the states, if you dont like it, well hey you must be a terrorist" is an unfortunate perspective. I wish, in my local Safeway, I could buy local Rhein valley Reislings for 5 bucks a bottle after tasting them first while conversing with the vinter - just like I did on a trip to Germany. Boo ****ing hoo. Damn vinters must hate Americans.
Well, that must be a fairly correct assumption, that, and of course, the steep import taxes (often more than 100%!) Bush (and, admittedly, Clinton before him) has placed on luxury goods like these (mainly because the EU doesn't allow the import of US hormonally treated meats).
I wish, in my local Safeway, I could buy local Rhein valley Reislings for 5 bucks a bottle after tasting them first while conversing with the vinter - just like I did on a trip to Germany. Boo ****ing hoo. Damn vinters must hate Americans.
That is the most ridiculous comparison I have ever heard!
I have an idea. Since President Bush has ruined the U.S. economy, spent all of its surplus, made unemplyoment higher than ever, and left the U.S. with no allies, maybe Steve Jobs should think about running for president? He can't do any worse. President Jobs... I like the sound of that.
I guess I misinterpreted "The point is, is that if your shipping your product to other countries then you should have localisation for the countries you shipping too."
Anyway, "this is our country and we only make software that focuses on the states, if you dont like it, well hey you must be a terrorist" is an unfortunate perspective. I wish, in my local Safeway, I could buy local Rhein valley Reislings for 5 bucks a bottle after tasting them first while conversing with the vinter - just like I did on a trip to Germany. Boo ****ing hoo. Damn vinters must hate Americans.
well done you've made my point for me.
I have never said i hated amercans and the snippet from my earlier post you make out it was my perspective when in fact it clearly shows a perspective from a reply i have gotten in the past.
you obviously have a bee in yer bonnet cos when someone comes along and dares to point out a few niggly issues with an american product, mr gung ho jumps out and shouts "american hater!!" This attitude of yours is why americans have very few allies.
you obviously have a bee in yer bonnet cos when someone comes along and dares to point out a few niggly issues with an american product, mr gung ho jumps out and shouts "american hater!!" This attitude of yours is why americans have very few allies.
Actually, this thread does make an interesting study of geopolitical attitudes. Every American here has expressed the opinion "Yeah, it's unfortunate that Apple can't treat their international customers as well as their US customers, but such is the reality of an American company doing global business" (Towel, Groverat, viking, rok [Canadian)]. While several non-Americans (der Kopf, cybermonkey, barto) have expressed the opinions that it must be someone's fault: Apple is doing it on purpose, it's proof that Americans hate everyone, or it's all Bush's fault for putting up trade barriers (?!?!).
NONE of us Americans ever suggested that complaining about Apple made you anti-American. YOU made that leap (in the absurd guise of "this is what I imagine Americans will always say"), and I tried to point out the absurdity of it with the vinter comparison. International trade's a bitch. Why is that so hard to comprehend? And it's made even more of a bitch by protectionism and anti-globalization, whatever you might think about the broader appeal of those movements.
No one has even answered me about whether Europeans have the same cyber-infrastructure as here in the US. I'm genuinely curious. If the answer is no, then you surely have a golden opportunity to DO SOMETHING that will help you, Apple, and all your fellow Europeans instead of just railing against the moon for daring to be there.
[And thank you to the few people who have been trying to use humor to convince everyone that this topic is, indeed, absurd. You tried.]
Towel, you are completely and utterly wrong about me, and probably der Kopf and cybermonkey (although I can't speak for them).
I do NOT believe it is anyone's fault. I'm simply saying that as a consumer, I don't like being treated like a 2nd class citizen by ANYONE, including Apple. I simply do not care what the reasons are, as a consumer my psychology is fundamentally predictable.
I do not like being treated as a 2nd class citizen. I never believed that anyone thought I was anti-american. This is what I think, in my fundamentally predictable consumer psychology.
Comments
Originally posted by der Kopf
I think you deserved that remark. You said something equally stupid.
What did I say that was so stupid?
That Apple focuses on America first because they are an American company?
Or that you calling me a "dufus" was childish?
I don't see either one of these being remotely as "stupid" as saying that all people of a certain country deserve to die because they get Apple stuff first.
Thank God I moved to Europe.
I don't care. No-one cares what lame reasons you or Apple has, we just don't like being treated as 2nd-class Mac users. No-one likes being treated as 2nd class anything.
Your irrelevent "critique" of my joke didn't help your cause either. It was a stupid statement (from the lyrics of a very fine band), and your statement was almost as stupid.
No-one deserves to die, and no-one likes being treated as 2nd class citizens. Nothing will change that.
Barto
Originally posted by Barto
I don't care. No-one cares what lame reasons you or Apple has, we just don't like being treated as 2nd-class Mac users.
Hmm. You realize it's not on purpose, right? Steve Jobs doesn't wake up in the morning thinking "How can I make international users feel slighted today?" Doing global business is tough. Every country has import/export hoops, different laws and regulations, language issues... Take iTMS and Sherlock. Clearly, it isn't Apple that's holding back an internation iTMS - it's an impenetrable web of licensing issues that have to first be resolved by the RIAA, which then has to make specific agreements with Apple. It's a big pain in the ass. And if the RIAA says no, then too bad for Apple, and for you.
Or Sherlock. Yeah, it's a nifty tool, but it requires a vast amount of data from third parties to function. Is Apple really in the business of maintaining a database of all theaters and movie times, everywhere in the world? Yahoo maps, for example, only covers the US, Canada, and a handful of (large) European countries. The infrastructure to do Sherlock outside the US just doesn't exist, and would be very expensive to build from scratch.
Then there's languages. Yeah, I'd be mad if I had to wait a few months to get my Sweedishchefian version of Panther. But would it be better to delay Panther's roll out for a year or two while Apple translates it into 4,372 different languages?
Apple is a US company. Most of Apple's customers are in the US. Most of Apple's sales are in the US. Apple operates "natively" under US law. None of that will change in the near future. You can get mad at it, but it's a pretty unproductive kind of mad. If it bothers so much that you have to rely on a US company, then invest/join/start/patronize a local software company. If enough folks did that, not only might Apple TryHarder, but you'd give a nice scare to Microsoft, too.
Apple may have good business reasons for the Power Mac line sucking, iTMS, iPhotos and Sherlock not being available outside the US, Apple not advertising enough here, Apple Australia having really CRAP customer relations....
As a consumer, I DO NOT CARE. This thread is about international consumers being angry about Apple being US centric. It doesn't matter what good reasons exist TO APPLE, int'l consumers will continue to be angry. Because the only thing good from a consumer perspective is:
1) Good Product
2) Good Support
3) Good Price
Now, Apple Australia has achieved #3 (how ironic), but has failed at #1 and #2.
Barto
It's not the RIAA. The Recording Industry Assholes of America are a lobby group, not the actual copyright holders. In fact, it's remarkably more complex than that. You see, under int'l copyright law, a copyright holder specifies an importer for each country. If no importer is specified, then no (legal) product. Apple has to talk to each specified importer, which magnifies the problem 100X. Horray for the f*cked up IP system!
Or Sherlock. Yeah, it's a nifty tool, but it requires a vast amount of data from third parties to function. Is Apple really in the business of maintaining a database of all theaters and movie times, everywhere in the world? Yahoo maps, for example, only covers the US, Canada, and a handful of (large) European countries. The infrastructure to do Sherlock outside the US just doesn't exist, and would be very expensive to build from scratch.
Apple America isn't in that business. But you obviously have no idea about how Apple is structured internationally. There is a semi-independant Apple company for virtually every country in the world, and they have the funds they should be using for this kind of localisation.
Then there's languages. Yeah, I'd be mad if I had to wait a few months to get my Sweedishchefian version of Panther. But would it be better to delay Panther's roll out for a year or two while Apple translates it into 4,372 different languages?
Apple's pretty good with languages actually. Especially with Mac OS X.
Going back to my point, as a consumer I simply don't care about what's good for a corperation, just for myself. Hence I'm a bit irritated about the failings of Apple Australia.
Barto
It takes at least a month to bring first copies of major OS updates to Russia. Moreover, every time I call Apple IMC (Apple's official representatives here) to ask when the hell I can get my OS 10.x CDs for $130 (not a small sum of money for a country where 99% software is pirated), I hear: "Huh? err, what OS 10 err... how did you say? Well, hmmm, dunno. You can wait a couple of months, I hear new Macs are comin' with that thing included. Come to us, we'll burn it for you for $5. Wanna buy it?! What the fu... what for? Hmmm. Can't help you now. Call someone else. Dealers, mebbe. Dunno. Heh. Did you see it already? You know QuarkXPress doesn't like it. What else could you want it for?" I usually make such calls about 20-30 times before actually being able to buy it. Probably, some people call it international business, a matter of marketshare, quality of support, etc. They just don't exist in many countries. I can't say Russia is one of the poorest countries since Moscow is flooded with car brands like Bentley, Mercedez, BMW, Alfa Romeo and Chevrolet. The same people don't have spare 30 bucks for a disk-repairing utility. And it looks like nobody even tries to offer any software for sale any more. Last time I checked for Maya, it was less of a headache to buy it for $3 in the corner than to find an official box.
Originally posted by Towel
Hmm. You realize it's not on purpose, right? Steve Jobs doesn't wake up in the morning thinking "How can I make international users feel slighted today?" Doing global business is tough. Every country has import/export hoops, different laws and regulations, language issues... Take iTMS and Sherlock. Clearly, it isn't Apple that's holding back an internation iTMS - it's an impenetrable web of licensing issues that have to first be resolved by the RIAA, which then has to make specific agreements with Apple. It's a big pain in the ass. And if the RIAA says no, then too bad for Apple, and for you.
Or Sherlock. Yeah, it's a nifty tool, but it requires a vast amount of data from third parties to function. Is Apple really in the business of maintaining a database of all theaters and movie times, everywhere in the world? Yahoo maps, for example, only covers the US, Canada, and a handful of (large) European countries. The infrastructure to do Sherlock outside the US just doesn't exist, and would be very expensive to build from scratch.
Then there's languages. Yeah, I'd be mad if I had to wait a few months to get my Sweedishchefian version of Panther. But would it be better to delay Panther's roll out for a year or two while Apple translates it into 4,372 different languages?
Well M$ and linux vendors dont seem to have a problem with getting true international versions out.
The point is, is that if your shipping your product to other countries then you should have localisation for the countries you shipping too. And this bull about APPLE IS MADE IN THE USA SO WE GET THE GOODIES FIRST is an attitude that will get you know where. As i said if yer shipping and have stores in other countries you should have the localisation in place before you ship the said product.
No excuses.
Originally posted by der Kopf
That being many factors worse than just 'American'.
Haha, how very true. 48th in social services and 47th in people with health insurance (in the states). say it loud and proud!
Originally posted by cybermonkey
Well M$ and linux vendors dont seem to have a problem with getting true international versions out....if yer shipping and have stores in other countries you should have the localisation in place before you ship the said product.
M$ has quarterly profits that exceed Apple's yearly revenues. Yet they too have localization issues - see the recent brouhaha over Hebrew and Arabic versions (or lack thereof) of M$'s products. As for Linux...well, that's one of the many virtues of open source, isn't it? Anyone who cares can code up a localized Linux distro. As long as OSX remains closed-source, however, that's not a valid model for Apple to follow.
Your conclusion I just don't get. You'd rather not have Apple products at all than have them with less-than-perfect support? I suspect that's an exaggeration driven by frustration, or you wouldn't be on these forums.
I think a major issue, as far as Apple services goes (Sherlock et al.) is the lack of infrastructure outside the US. Maybe someone in Europe can tell me if you all have access to local versions of MapQuest, MovieTickets.com, Orbitz, etc etc. Apple USA doesn't own any of these services, they just use their data. Apple France may be an "independent" company, but it surely doesn't have the resources to make on its own what's taken hundreds of companies to make here in the USA. But, if I'm wrong, and all these services already exist, then go ahead and blame Apple. Even so, each "foreign" Apple has only a tiny fraction of the resources of Apple USA - and would have to fund programs similar in scale to those in the US.
Originally posted by Towel
M$ has quarterly profits that exceed Apple's yearly revenues. Yet they too have localization issues - see the recent brouhaha over Hebrew and Arabic versions (or lack thereof) of M$'s products.
This makes me realize that I actually am working on an International English version of OS X (well, if you can actually say version, seeing all supported languages are included these days). I have never been happy to work on a Dutch (my language) version, and I know many others who are, consciously or unconsciously, in the same situation. But then again, I do use a localized keyboard layout (good ole' azerty). It's not that easy, all this localizing, I'll be the first to admit that, and they DO offer a lot of services (if not close to all) in my language. The main issue for me remains Sherlock (albeit, again, that I can translate into and from my language with it). All in all, I'd give Apple a 6, maybe a 7, out of 10 for their international attitude.
[i]
Your conclusion I just don't get. You'd rather not have Apple products at all than have them with less-than-perfect support? I suspect that's an exaggeration driven by frustration, or you wouldn't be on these forums.
[/B]
Dont know where you got that conclusion from seeing as i never said i rather not have apple products.
I love macs, its the attitude of some people that use them that gets me.
for example: " you goddamn english limey, this is our country and we only make software that focuses on the states, if you dont like it, well hey you must be a terrorist"
It appears that macs are so easy to use that even rednecks use them.
Originally posted by cybermonkey
Dont know where you got that conclusion from seeing as i never said i rather not have apple products.
I guess I misinterpreted "The point is, is that if your shipping your product to other countries then you should have localisation for the countries you shipping too."
Anyway, "this is our country and we only make software that focuses on the states, if you dont like it, well hey you must be a terrorist" is an unfortunate perspective. I wish, in my local Safeway, I could buy local Rhein valley Reislings for 5 bucks a bottle after tasting them first while conversing with the vinter - just like I did on a trip to Germany. Boo ****ing hoo. Damn vinters must hate Americans.
Originally posted by Towel
Damn vinters must hate Americans.
Well, that must be a fairly correct assumption, that, and of course, the steep import taxes (often more than 100%!) Bush (and, admittedly, Clinton before him) has placed on luxury goods like these (mainly because the EU doesn't allow the import of US hormonally treated meats).
Originally posted by Towel
I wish, in my local Safeway, I could buy local Rhein valley Reislings for 5 bucks a bottle after tasting them first while conversing with the vinter - just like I did on a trip to Germany. Boo ****ing hoo. Damn vinters must hate Americans.
That is the most ridiculous comparison I have ever heard!
Originally posted by Towel
I guess I misinterpreted "The point is, is that if your shipping your product to other countries then you should have localisation for the countries you shipping too."
Anyway, "this is our country and we only make software that focuses on the states, if you dont like it, well hey you must be a terrorist" is an unfortunate perspective. I wish, in my local Safeway, I could buy local Rhein valley Reislings for 5 bucks a bottle after tasting them first while conversing with the vinter - just like I did on a trip to Germany. Boo ****ing hoo. Damn vinters must hate Americans.
well done you've made my point for me.
I have never said i hated amercans and the snippet from my earlier post you make out it was my perspective when in fact it clearly shows a perspective from a reply i have gotten in the past.
you obviously have a bee in yer bonnet cos when someone comes along and dares to point out a few niggly issues with an american product, mr gung ho jumps out and shouts "american hater!!" This attitude of yours is why americans have very few allies.
Originally posted by cybermonkey
you obviously have a bee in yer bonnet cos when someone comes along and dares to point out a few niggly issues with an american product, mr gung ho jumps out and shouts "american hater!!" This attitude of yours is why americans have very few allies.
Actually, this thread does make an interesting study of geopolitical attitudes. Every American here has expressed the opinion "Yeah, it's unfortunate that Apple can't treat their international customers as well as their US customers, but such is the reality of an American company doing global business" (Towel, Groverat, viking, rok [Canadian)]. While several non-Americans (der Kopf, cybermonkey, barto) have expressed the opinions that it must be someone's fault: Apple is doing it on purpose, it's proof that Americans hate everyone, or it's all Bush's fault for putting up trade barriers (?!?!).
NONE of us Americans ever suggested that complaining about Apple made you anti-American. YOU made that leap (in the absurd guise of "this is what I imagine Americans will always say"), and I tried to point out the absurdity of it with the vinter comparison. International trade's a bitch. Why is that so hard to comprehend? And it's made even more of a bitch by protectionism and anti-globalization, whatever you might think about the broader appeal of those movements.
No one has even answered me about whether Europeans have the same cyber-infrastructure as here in the US. I'm genuinely curious. If the answer is no, then you surely have a golden opportunity to DO SOMETHING that will help you, Apple, and all your fellow Europeans instead of just railing against the moon for daring to be there.
[And thank you to the few people who have been trying to use humor to convince everyone that this topic is, indeed, absurd. You tried.]
I do NOT believe it is anyone's fault. I'm simply saying that as a consumer, I don't like being treated like a 2nd class citizen by ANYONE, including Apple. I simply do not care what the reasons are, as a consumer my psychology is fundamentally predictable.
I do not like being treated as a 2nd class citizen. I never believed that anyone thought I was anti-american. This is what I think, in my fundamentally predictable consumer psychology.
Barto