sorry, thought you meant Smith had left the Matrix entirely when he possessed that body.
also, they said in the movie that one of the ships EMP's went off by accident, only they aren't sure it's an accident. (in other words the Smith possesed person sabotaged them) that seems much more likely to me than Agent Smith actually being able to EMP anyone/anything.
he's in a coma because a pile of crap fell on him when the machines blew up the disabled ships that had been EMP'ed.
hjordis71, the only 'flaw' I see is that we CREATED these tools. They aren't some other species that naturally popped up. They aren't slaves because they are not people. They have no undying soul and so can't be seen as anything equal to humans. How can there be a symbiosis?
Like I said in my post, the turning point is when they become sentient beings. You are right with your bee/honeycomb and monkey/stick analogies, the difference being that the honeycomb and stick are not self-aware, and do not work for their self preservation. The machines of the Matrix, however....
But it wasn't the EMP that killed the humans. It couldn't have been. Remember the EMP only affects machines and it doesn't appear to have ill effects on humans (remember the end of the first Matrix?). It couldn't have been the EMP that put Neo and the human Smith in a coma.
maybe because neo merged with the source that he is now part machine, making him suceptible to the EMP... same deal with smith, but i doubt that...
also, who realized that the sentinels were going to bomb the ship as they released the bomb? was it neo? did he feel that as well?
sorry, thought you meant Smith had left the Matrix entirely when he possessed that body.
also, they said in the movie that one of the ships EMP's went off by accident, only they aren't sure it's an accident. (in other words the Smith possesed person sabotaged them) that seems much more likely to me than Agent Smith actually being able to EMP anyone/anything.
he's in a coma because a pile of crap fell on him when the machines blew up the disabled ships that had been EMP'ed.
Read what Paul just wrote. That makes sense as well. Maybe Neo is part machine because he merged with the source. I still think Neo is in a coma because he dispensed some sort of energy out.
Whatever the reason, Neo now has the power to stop the machines in the real world. That makes a hell of a lot more sense and a better story than there being multiple levels of the matrix. The multiple level theory would make the entire story pointless. They'd never get out. They'd never know when they were really free and it would just be ridiculous. Lets hope the writers are more clever than that.
Im not sure yet if this is the teiser at the end of reloaded, cause i walked out at the to be continued part, but will know as i will see reloaded a few more times this week, as i recomened for anyone who is questioning anything from the movie.
and the machines DO reach zion... (you see a clip of the starcraft-style sentry at the gate firing at something...)
also it seems like there is fighting inside a ship... so it seems that maybe they ALL have the ability to 'bend the rules' in the real world... hmmm....
Your life is the sum is the remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. you are the eventuality of an anomoly which despite my sincerest efforts, i have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical percision.
the matrix is older than you know. i prefer counting from the emerging of one integral anomoly to the next, in which case, this is the sixth version.
the fist matrix i designed was quite naturally perfect, a work of art. flawless. sublime. a triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. the inevitability of its doom is aparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfectino inherent in every human being. thus, i redisigned it, based on your history, to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. however, i was again frustrated by failure.
i have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche.
If i am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.
as i was saying, she stumbled upon a solution where by nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconcious level. While this answer functioned it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic annomoly, but if left unchecked, it might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refuse the program, while a minority, if unchecked would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.
(neo)This is about Zion.
(Architecht) You are here because zion is about to be destroyed.
its every living inhabitant destroyed, its entire existance irradicated.
Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it. and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.
the function of the one is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry reinserting the prime program. afterwhich you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals (16 female, 7 male), to rebuild zion. failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of zion, will ultimatly result in the extinction of the entire human race.
(neo) You wont allow that. You need human beings to survive.
There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is weather or not you are willing to accept the responsiblity for every human being in this world.
It is interesting reading your reactions. Your 5 predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication, a contingient affirmation, that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facillitating the function of The One. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Love.
(neo)Trinity.
she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own. Which brings us at last to the moment of truth wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed and the anomoly revealed as both beginning and end. There are two doors, The door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of zion. the door to your left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice.
But we already know what you are going to do, dont we.
I won't say I completely hated the movie. But I definitely didn't like it. It had poor dialog that made all the characters sound like idiots. The minor characters like what's-her-face-who-used-to-be-with-Morpheus and that annoying guy who kept bugging Neo were completely flat and undeveloped. I kind of liked Link but he was still completely undeveloped. Tank disappeared into thin air. I mean, in the first movie, they had Apoc, Switch, Mouse and Dozer, but they all died pretty early on so they weren't left around to bug you. Even then, I felt for Mouse and Dozer, whereas I really don't care about the minor characters in Reloaded. They didn't even die, they just kind of disappeared.
It did a really bad job of explaining itself. Because I couldn't really understand the story, I had to just twiddle my thumbs or sleep between the (excellent) fight scenes. I never had to do that during the first one... it was interesting and simple all the way through.
The sex/rave scene was really stupid. REALLY stupid. Morpheus' speech was really stupid. The council or whatever it's called was really stupid... after that particular scene was done, I had to ask myself if I had fallen asleep or if I had just zoned out while they were droning on about god knows what.
My opinion is that they should have reduced this one down to an hour and a half of fights + simple plot development, and then the last one would be similar. Or even combine this one and the next one into a single 2-2.5 hour movie, after removing all the stupid, plodding scenes. There really only seemed to be about one hour of worthwile footage in this one, and that's being generous.
In regards to Niobe(girl that used to be with morpheus...etc) Her character is developed in the game "Enter the Matrix" where she plays the lead role(along with that asian due Ghost)
The purpose of that game is to help elaborate on some minor characters more, and flush out hte story a little bit.
The purpose of that game is to help elaborate on some minor characters more, and flush out hte story a little bit.
That makes sense. I was thinking that one of the nice things about the first one was there were so few characters that you couldn't help getting to know them. Here, I had some trouble keeping track of them all. I guess I need to watch it again, after watching the Animatrices and playing the game.
That makes sense. I was thinking that one of the nice things about the first one was there were so few characters that you couldn't help getting to know them. Here, I had some trouble keeping track of them all. I guess I need to watch it again, after watching the Animatrices and playing the game.
Are the Animatrix shorts somehow related to this story in some way? I was under the impression that they were just take offs and not developing the story itself. Maybe I'll go back and have a look again.
The purpose of that game is to help elaborate on some minor characters more, and flush out hte story a little bit.
So now you have to have a PS2 and rent/buy a freaky game? (rolls eyes dramatically)
Sorry.. but this movie fell soundly into the poor quality sequel arena. Now lets see if Batman Forever is still better then the final chapter of 'la matrix'.
'la matrix' is the new name for it since once it started sucking it deserves a french name.
Are the Animatrix shorts somehow related to this story in some way? I was under the impression that they were just take offs and not developing the story itself. Maybe I'll go back and have a look again.
Check out The Second Renaissance Part 1 & 2. It shows what happened between the Machines and the Humans, how we blackened the sky and lost the war.
As far as I know, the other ones are just sub-stories that give a little more detail about the overall story and not much new information. But they're still fun to watch.
First of all, I find it funny that some of you are saying that the brothers Wachowski are copping out if they do what you think is obvious when they took Reloaded in a totally different direction then you thought the first Matrix was heading. Let's admit that that's why most people here are disappointed: because they expected Reloaded to be what it turned out not to be. I think Revolutions will the exact same thing: another huge twist that will answer most of the remaining questions.
As for the rest of you who felt there should have been more action and less talk, that's not the brothers' style. They want you to think about their movies, they want people to discuss what they've done..... they just threw in the action scenes for you dudes with attention deficit disorder. The Matrix trilogy can be summed up in this great Lauren Hill quote: "And even after all my logic and my theory / I add a 'mutha ****a' so you ignorant niggaz hear me."
Another thing, the Kid who follows Neo around is a reference to an Animatrix short called, aptly enough, The Kid. It's about Kid who discovers on his own that the world he lives in is a construct, and Neo eventually, though accidently, saves the Kid from the agents that were chasing him. That's why the Kid is so grateful towards Neo. Anyway, it's a reference to one of their Animatrix shorts and it'll be released publically soon.
As for the death of Tank, perhaps he went down with the Osiris? I don't know, I haven't seen that short either. There is another Animatrix called The Final Flight of the Osiris and it happens just before Reloaded begins. It's about the doomed ship, the Osiris, which discovers that the machines are digging towards Zion, and they get destroyed bringing the information back to their people. Osiris is actually mentioned in the beginning, and that's how they know that Zion is under attack.
For those of you who are not into spoilers but into video games, I would definitely avoid Into the Matrix at least until Revolutions comes out. The plot of that game runs concurrently with the plots of Reloaded/Revolutions and it DOES have some massive spoilers. What's neat about it is that there are thousands of different stories going on in the Matrix world, each character having their own stories as the events around them are unfolding, but the Wachowski brothers more or less focus the movies around Neo/Trinity/Morpheous while said characters come into play and leave to go about their business. In the video game, the focus is on Nyobi and some other dude (didn't catch his name) while Neo/Trinity/Morpheous are side characters that come in and out when their paths manage to intersect. It's really fascinating to be made aware that there are tons of other things happening that don't necessarily involve the main characters yet are ultimately determined by them anyway. Like seeing what it's like on the bridge of another starship instead of the Enterprise during the First Contact battle against the Borg, or seeing the perspective of a miscellaneous fighter in Lord of the Rings. Cool and different perspective.
Comments
also, they said in the movie that one of the ships EMP's went off by accident, only they aren't sure it's an accident. (in other words the Smith possesed person sabotaged them) that seems much more likely to me than Agent Smith actually being able to EMP anyone/anything.
he's in a coma because a pile of crap fell on him when the machines blew up the disabled ships that had been EMP'ed.
Originally posted by Not Unlike Myself:
hjordis71, the only 'flaw' I see is that we CREATED these tools. They aren't some other species that naturally popped up. They aren't slaves because they are not people. They have no undying soul and so can't be seen as anything equal to humans. How can there be a symbiosis?
Like I said in my post, the turning point is when they become sentient beings. You are right with your bee/honeycomb and monkey/stick analogies, the difference being that the honeycomb and stick are not self-aware, and do not work for their self preservation. The machines of the Matrix, however....
Originally posted by torifile
But it wasn't the EMP that killed the humans. It couldn't have been. Remember the EMP only affects machines and it doesn't appear to have ill effects on humans (remember the end of the first Matrix?). It couldn't have been the EMP that put Neo and the human Smith in a coma.
maybe because neo merged with the source that he is now part machine, making him suceptible to the EMP... same deal with smith, but i doubt that...
also, who realized that the sentinels were going to bomb the ship as they released the bomb? was it neo? did he feel that as well?
Originally posted by alcimedes
sorry, thought you meant Smith had left the Matrix entirely when he possessed that body.
also, they said in the movie that one of the ships EMP's went off by accident, only they aren't sure it's an accident. (in other words the Smith possesed person sabotaged them) that seems much more likely to me than Agent Smith actually being able to EMP anyone/anything.
he's in a coma because a pile of crap fell on him when the machines blew up the disabled ships that had been EMP'ed.
Read what Paul just wrote. That makes sense as well. Maybe Neo is part machine because he merged with the source. I still think Neo is in a coma because he dispensed some sort of energy out.
Whatever the reason, Neo now has the power to stop the machines in the real world. That makes a hell of a lot more sense and a better story than there being multiple levels of the matrix. The multiple level theory would make the entire story pointless. They'd never get out. They'd never know when they were really free and it would just be ridiculous. Lets hope the writers are more clever than that.
also, who realized that the sentinels were going to bomb the ship as they released the bomb? was it neo? did he feel that as well?
i believe he saw in a vision it happening to another machine, so he knew what was coming.
Im not sure yet if this is the teiser at the end of reloaded, cause i walked out at the to be continued part, but will know as i will see reloaded a few more times this week, as i recomened for anyone who is questioning anything from the movie.
Originally posted by dmgeist
The Matrix: Revolutions Trailer Here
as seen in the trailer: zion has not fallen...
neo does not die (duh...)
and the machines DO reach zion... (you see a clip of the starcraft-style sentry at the gate firing at something...)
also it seems like there is fighting inside a ship... so it seems that maybe they ALL have the ability to 'bend the rules' in the real world... hmmm....
Your life is the sum is the remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. you are the eventuality of an anomoly which despite my sincerest efforts, i have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical percision.
the matrix is older than you know. i prefer counting from the emerging of one integral anomoly to the next, in which case, this is the sixth version.
the fist matrix i designed was quite naturally perfect, a work of art. flawless. sublime. a triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. the inevitability of its doom is aparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfectino inherent in every human being. thus, i redisigned it, based on your history, to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. however, i was again frustrated by failure.
i have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche.
If i am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.
as i was saying, she stumbled upon a solution where by nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconcious level. While this answer functioned it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic annomoly, but if left unchecked, it might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refuse the program, while a minority, if unchecked would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.
(neo)This is about Zion.
(Architecht) You are here because zion is about to be destroyed.
its every living inhabitant destroyed, its entire existance irradicated.
Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it. and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.
the function of the one is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry reinserting the prime program. afterwhich you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals (16 female, 7 male), to rebuild zion. failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of zion, will ultimatly result in the extinction of the entire human race.
(neo) You wont allow that. You need human beings to survive.
There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is weather or not you are willing to accept the responsiblity for every human being in this world.
It is interesting reading your reactions. Your 5 predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication, a contingient affirmation, that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facillitating the function of The One. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Love.
(neo)Trinity.
she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own. Which brings us at last to the moment of truth wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed and the anomoly revealed as both beginning and end. There are two doors, The door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of zion. the door to your left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice.
But we already know what you are going to do, dont we.
Originally posted by ThunderPoit
as requested, the Architecht Monologue:
THANKS!
It did a really bad job of explaining itself. Because I couldn't really understand the story, I had to just twiddle my thumbs or sleep between the (excellent) fight scenes. I never had to do that during the first one... it was interesting and simple all the way through.
The sex/rave scene was really stupid. REALLY stupid. Morpheus' speech was really stupid. The council or whatever it's called was really stupid... after that particular scene was done, I had to ask myself if I had fallen asleep or if I had just zoned out while they were droning on about god knows what.
My opinion is that they should have reduced this one down to an hour and a half of fights + simple plot development, and then the last one would be similar. Or even combine this one and the next one into a single 2-2.5 hour movie, after removing all the stupid, plodding scenes. There really only seemed to be about one hour of worthwile footage in this one, and that's being generous.
The purpose of that game is to help elaborate on some minor characters more, and flush out hte story a little bit.
Originally posted by Wrong Robust
The purpose of that game is to help elaborate on some minor characters more, and flush out hte story a little bit.
That makes sense. I was thinking that one of the nice things about the first one was there were so few characters that you couldn't help getting to know them. Here, I had some trouble keeping track of them all. I guess I need to watch it again, after watching the Animatrices and playing the game.
Originally posted by Towel
That makes sense. I was thinking that one of the nice things about the first one was there were so few characters that you couldn't help getting to know them. Here, I had some trouble keeping track of them all. I guess I need to watch it again, after watching the Animatrices and playing the game.
Are the Animatrix shorts somehow related to this story in some way? I was under the impression that they were just take offs and not developing the story itself. Maybe I'll go back and have a look again.
Originally posted by Wrong Robust
The purpose of that game is to help elaborate on some minor characters more, and flush out hte story a little bit.
So now you have to have a PS2 and rent/buy a freaky game? (rolls eyes dramatically)
Sorry.. but this movie fell soundly into the poor quality sequel arena. Now lets see if Batman Forever is still better then the final chapter of 'la matrix'.
'la matrix' is the new name for it since once it started sucking it deserves a french name.
Originally posted by torifile
Are the Animatrix shorts somehow related to this story in some way? I was under the impression that they were just take offs and not developing the story itself. Maybe I'll go back and have a look again.
Check out The Second Renaissance Part 1 & 2. It shows what happened between the Machines and the Humans, how we blackened the sky and lost the war.
As far as I know, the other ones are just sub-stories that give a little more detail about the overall story and not much new information. But they're still fun to watch.
First of all, I find it funny that some of you are saying that the brothers Wachowski are copping out if they do what you think is obvious when they took Reloaded in a totally different direction then you thought the first Matrix was heading. Let's admit that that's why most people here are disappointed: because they expected Reloaded to be what it turned out not to be. I think Revolutions will the exact same thing: another huge twist that will answer most of the remaining questions.
As for the rest of you who felt there should have been more action and less talk, that's not the brothers' style. They want you to think about their movies, they want people to discuss what they've done..... they just threw in the action scenes for you dudes with attention deficit disorder. The Matrix trilogy can be summed up in this great Lauren Hill quote: "And even after all my logic and my theory / I add a 'mutha ****a' so you ignorant niggaz hear me."
Another thing, the Kid who follows Neo around is a reference to an Animatrix short called, aptly enough, The Kid. It's about Kid who discovers on his own that the world he lives in is a construct, and Neo eventually, though accidently, saves the Kid from the agents that were chasing him. That's why the Kid is so grateful towards Neo. Anyway, it's a reference to one of their Animatrix shorts and it'll be released publically soon.
As for the death of Tank, perhaps he went down with the Osiris? I don't know, I haven't seen that short either. There is another Animatrix called The Final Flight of the Osiris and it happens just before Reloaded begins. It's about the doomed ship, the Osiris, which discovers that the machines are digging towards Zion, and they get destroyed bringing the information back to their people. Osiris is actually mentioned in the beginning, and that's how they know that Zion is under attack.
For those of you who are not into spoilers but into video games, I would definitely avoid Into the Matrix at least until Revolutions comes out. The plot of that game runs concurrently with the plots of Reloaded/Revolutions and it DOES have some massive spoilers. What's neat about it is that there are thousands of different stories going on in the Matrix world, each character having their own stories as the events around them are unfolding, but the Wachowski brothers more or less focus the movies around Neo/Trinity/Morpheous while said characters come into play and leave to go about their business. In the video game, the focus is on Nyobi and some other dude (didn't catch his name) while Neo/Trinity/Morpheous are side characters that come in and out when their paths manage to intersect. It's really fascinating to be made aware that there are tons of other things happening that don't necessarily involve the main characters yet are ultimately determined by them anyway. Like seeing what it's like on the bridge of another starship instead of the Enterprise during the First Contact battle against the Borg, or seeing the perspective of a miscellaneous fighter in Lord of the Rings. Cool and different perspective.