<strong>Point of Clarification: The Article is from NewsFactor (quoted on MacRumors.com). It has nothing to do with Macosrumors.com.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Though Meader must've read it too given the quote posted by Lemon Bon Bon. His timetable seems fairly optimistic, though.
<strong>All the news about 7470 and 7460 could be just what Apple will designate as G5 chip.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, the 7470 and 7460 are both G4 chips. Sorry, I must pound this into everyones' head but when they move the pro models to the G5 they will continue to use to G4 in the consumer models.
Therefore, the G4 has a lot of life in it... in the consumer models.
I hate to piss on anyone's parade, but Apple isn't going to update the Powermacs at MWNY with a 100% increase in CPU speed, or 1 GHz to 2 GHz. Not going to happen, ever. Even if Apple had 2 GHz chips from Moto, it would be better business to incrementally raise the speeds over half a year or even longer.
When has Apple EVER increased CPU speed more than 40% or so?
Tomorrow I expect to see rackmount 7455 (possibly dual) introduced, and that's it. There might be several models, but I think they'll just talk about the rackmounts... its quite a different crowd that any of their other products, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense to mix them. I hope it'll be the first Apple DDR machine (and thus require at least the rumoured 7570 w/ DDR support), but I'm not optimistic.
O'Grady is usually pretty accurate so new iBooks before MWNY seem to be in order. These will probably be high speed G3s, but its not clear that the new IBM SIMD equipped G3 is ready yet. We can hope. If Apple is going to use this thing the SIMD unit will be AltiVec compatible -- they simply wouldn't go there if it wasn't.
At MWNY we'll hopefully see the new PowerMacs. These will likely be the rumoured 7570 w/ DDR, but the optimistic side of me hopes for the on-chip memory controller and RapidIO bus. More realistically we won't see that until MWSF next year. Even without this we could see a 100% performance increase thanks to bumped clock rates, DDR, and other chip improvements. Add Jaguar into the mix and the new machines should be way ahead of the current PowerMacs. Hopefully other components are improved along with the DDR (i.e. USB, FireWire, IDE).
BTW: a multi-core PPC with onchip memory controller would probably work quite effectively. They might even be able to share functional units and caches much like the Intel hyper-threading scheme. A dual or quad core like this with a fast DDR memory controller would be quite effective, and then you could hook several of these multi-cores together with a RapidIO bus and have a really rockin' system.
<strong>I hate to piss on anyone's parade, but Apple isn't going to update the Powermacs at MWNY with a 100% increase in CPU speed, or 1 GHz to 2 GHz. Not going to happen, ever. Even if Apple had 2 GHz chips from Moto, it would be better business to incrementally raise the speeds over half a year or even longer.
When has Apple EVER increased CPU speed more than 40% or so?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, a glaring example is the move from 68k to PowerPC, taking them from 30 MHz to 60 MHz. And then alot of times after that, speeds jumped by over 50% on multiple occasions. True, since the G4, no, but that's a relatively short amount of time in Apple's history.
I also doubt that Apple thinks it's good business to incrementally increase clock speeds. Incremental increases never result in a huge volume of sales. They are just as aware as you are that low speeds (in perception and reality) are holding back sales. There are plenty of users who'd love to move to OS X from Windows or Linux (yes, there are Linux geeks who like OS X), but are waiting on better hardware parity.
Also, when you consider the markets Apple seems champing at the bit to get into (3D, HD DV editing, etc.), they must know they need a large jump in processor.
<strong>I hate to piss on anyone's parade, but Apple isn't going to update the Powermacs at MWNY with a 100% increase in CPU speed, or 1 GHz to 2 GHz. Not going to happen, ever. Even if Apple had 2 GHz chips from Moto, it would be better business to incrementally raise the speeds over half a year or even longer.
When has Apple EVER increased CPU speed more than 40% or so?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Would provoke a pretty massive round of PowerMac buying methinks. how many folks are holding for a breakthrough? My PM 400 does a decent job, a dual Ghz makes it look somewhat inadequate, but a dual 2 Ghz would be enough to push me off the fence. Dribs and drabs off speed just annoy people (How many people over a year will have just missed an upgrade) and Apple would have to pay the Transition costs (markdowns on leftover stock, dealing with returned units, changing ad copy, etc) several times a year instead of once. If it is a dramatic increase at MWNY if I was Apple I would try to be clean of PMs 2 weeks before the show (to cut down on the number of returns)
Think about it JYD, you statement is about as daft as they come. Why would it be better to incrimently increase the speed rather than jump? Each variant leads to hugh logistical problems for Apple, differennt inventory and then price reductions to move the old stock. Forget it, jump create massive demand and keep the inventory simple.
Apple would use the fastest parts it can get at a good price. No system builders 'hold back' faster parts. This is similar to the holding back faster parts to avoid agravating the installed base argument. Both are wrong.
Chip makers are a different story.
They release and price what the market will allow. Intel doesn't so much hold back faster parts as it prices them out of reach. As the slower and cheaper parts clear out, the prices of the newer parts drop, and as yields improve so does availability. Then system builders by the best price/performance parts as their needs dictate. No builder would use lower speed chips if they could get faster ones for the same price, it's a stupid move, competition-wise.
JYD, you're right in that Apple won't produce a 200% jump, but you're a little off as to the reason. They simply won't be able to 'cause the chips don't exist. If they could get them at a decent cost, they'd use them right away.
This argument would only change a little if one company was so far ahead of all others and so dominant that even a generation or two of development wouldn't bring the competition close in performance or marketshare. Apple is not in this position.
how many folks are holding for a breakthrough? </strong><hr></blockquote>
Me. I'm still using my 5yr old 8600 powermac. I'm waiting until the clock speed gets close to 2Ghz before I buy again. I figure in 3 years, the top speed will be 6*133MHz + 1Ghz = 1.8GHz which is close enough.
I think it'll be quite a while before we see a "breakthrough" in processor power in the mac line. Hopefully, the G5 will be it. I suspect this chip will have some serious balls AND legs.
I think if we want to see something really cool processor wise, Apple is going to have to go and smack the moto guys <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
Comments
<strong>Point of Clarification: The Article is from NewsFactor (quoted on MacRumors.com). It has nothing to do with Macosrumors.com.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Though Meader must've read it too given the quote posted by Lemon Bon Bon. His timetable seems fairly optimistic, though.
can anyone find it???????
<strong>even though i remember hearing about the powermac rebate, i can't find any evidence of it....
can anyone find it???????</strong><hr></blockquote>
<a href="http://guide.apple.com/hotdeals/applestore/index.lasso"; target="_blank">http://guide.apple.com/hotdeals/applestore/index.lasso</a>;
<strong>All the news about 7470 and 7460 could be just what Apple will designate as G5 chip.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, the 7470 and 7460 are both G4 chips. Sorry, I must pound this into everyones' head but when they move the pro models to the G5 they will continue to use to G4 in the consumer models.
Therefore, the G4 has a lot of life in it... in the consumer models.
When has Apple EVER increased CPU speed more than 40% or so?
O'Grady is usually pretty accurate so new iBooks before MWNY seem to be in order. These will probably be high speed G3s, but its not clear that the new IBM SIMD equipped G3 is ready yet. We can hope. If Apple is going to use this thing the SIMD unit will be AltiVec compatible -- they simply wouldn't go there if it wasn't.
At MWNY we'll hopefully see the new PowerMacs. These will likely be the rumoured 7570 w/ DDR, but the optimistic side of me hopes for the on-chip memory controller and RapidIO bus. More realistically we won't see that until MWSF next year. Even without this we could see a 100% performance increase thanks to bumped clock rates, DDR, and other chip improvements. Add Jaguar into the mix and the new machines should be way ahead of the current PowerMacs. Hopefully other components are improved along with the DDR (i.e. USB, FireWire, IDE).
BTW: a multi-core PPC with onchip memory controller would probably work quite effectively. They might even be able to share functional units and caches much like the Intel hyper-threading scheme. A dual or quad core like this with a fast DDR memory controller would be quite effective, and then you could hook several of these multi-cores together with a RapidIO bus and have a really rockin' system.
very interesting i think.
<strong>I hate to piss on anyone's parade, but Apple isn't going to update the Powermacs at MWNY with a 100% increase in CPU speed, or 1 GHz to 2 GHz. Not going to happen, ever. Even if Apple had 2 GHz chips from Moto, it would be better business to incrementally raise the speeds over half a year or even longer.
When has Apple EVER increased CPU speed more than 40% or so?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, a glaring example is the move from 68k to PowerPC, taking them from 30 MHz to 60 MHz. And then alot of times after that, speeds jumped by over 50% on multiple occasions. True, since the G4, no, but that's a relatively short amount of time in Apple's history.
I also doubt that Apple thinks it's good business to incrementally increase clock speeds. Incremental increases never result in a huge volume of sales. They are just as aware as you are that low speeds (in perception and reality) are holding back sales. There are plenty of users who'd love to move to OS X from Windows or Linux (yes, there are Linux geeks who like OS X), but are waiting on better hardware parity.
Also, when you consider the markets Apple seems champing at the bit to get into (3D, HD DV editing, etc.), they must know they need a large jump in processor.
<strong>I hate to piss on anyone's parade, but Apple isn't going to update the Powermacs at MWNY with a 100% increase in CPU speed, or 1 GHz to 2 GHz. Not going to happen, ever. Even if Apple had 2 GHz chips from Moto, it would be better business to incrementally raise the speeds over half a year or even longer.
When has Apple EVER increased CPU speed more than 40% or so?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Would provoke a pretty massive round of PowerMac buying methinks. how many folks are holding for a breakthrough? My PM 400 does a decent job, a dual Ghz makes it look somewhat inadequate, but a dual 2 Ghz would be enough to push me off the fence. Dribs and drabs off speed just annoy people (How many people over a year will have just missed an upgrade) and Apple would have to pay the Transition costs (markdowns on leftover stock, dealing with returned units, changing ad copy, etc) several times a year instead of once. If it is a dramatic increase at MWNY if I was Apple I would try to be clean of PMs 2 weeks before the show (to cut down on the number of returns)
Apple would use the fastest parts it can get at a good price. No system builders 'hold back' faster parts. This is similar to the holding back faster parts to avoid agravating the installed base argument. Both are wrong.
Chip makers are a different story.
They release and price what the market will allow. Intel doesn't so much hold back faster parts as it prices them out of reach. As the slower and cheaper parts clear out, the prices of the newer parts drop, and as yields improve so does availability. Then system builders by the best price/performance parts as their needs dictate. No builder would use lower speed chips if they could get faster ones for the same price, it's a stupid move, competition-wise.
JYD, you're right in that Apple won't produce a 200% jump, but you're a little off as to the reason. They simply won't be able to 'cause the chips don't exist. If they could get them at a decent cost, they'd use them right away.
This argument would only change a little if one company was so far ahead of all others and so dominant that even a generation or two of development wouldn't bring the competition close in performance or marketshare. Apple is not in this position.
When has Apple EVER increased CPU speed more than 40% or so?
When the MacII came out Apple went from 8MHz (Mac128, Mac512, the Plus and the SE) to 16MHz. Double the power!
And guess what allowed it to get up that fast? Memory bandwidth.
Won't that be a super way to top last year's great show?
The new imac is out. Powerbook bumped. We got emac and bumped ipod. We got Xserve. We know about Jaguar!
All this, we got. There's nothing left but...
What's left?!?!? ibook to 700/800mhz and Powermacs to Dual 1.2ghz? That's all!
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
That's all? And a few revisions to certain iapps?
That's a great Macworld New York, huh?
There has to be more. Somehow. Someway.
But what?
A 'new' device? Powermacs to G5? I hope so. I'm pinning my hopes on Steve Jobs doing something radical with the Powermacs.
Apple must be sitting on something.
Lemon Bon Bon. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
<strong>
how many folks are holding for a breakthrough? </strong><hr></blockquote>
Me. I'm still using my 5yr old 8600 powermac. I'm waiting until the clock speed gets close to 2Ghz before I buy again. I figure in 3 years, the top speed will be 6*133MHz + 1Ghz = 1.8GHz which is close enough.
I think it'll be quite a while before we see a "breakthrough" in processor power in the mac line. Hopefully, the G5 will be it. I suspect this chip will have some serious balls AND legs.