Charter schools dying - is it time for vouchers?

trumptmantrumptman
Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Charter school growth stumbles



Seems like Charters schools have gone into decline. The paperwork and compliance issues have grown year after year and now most of them simply cannot afford to run and meet the paperwork needed as well.



Charter schools were promoted as "public school choice" in an attempt to fight off voucher proponants. If the ever creeping hand of government rule regulations/compliance kills off public charter schools, will people become so frustrated they seek vouchers for all?



Nick
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 39
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    How would vouchers help reduce the necessary paperwork?
  • Reply 2 of 39
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    I don't think he's saying that vouchers would reduce paper work for charter schools. Only that if charter school fail and there's little option for good public education then people will then ask for vouchers to get outside the public school system.
  • Reply 3 of 39
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott

    I don't think he's saying that vouchers would reduce paper work for charter schools.



    I'm just saying that if the paperwork is the problem, fix the problem. Adding vouchers to the mix doesn't address the problem, it's just a political game.



    Subtract vouchers from this entire equation Nick and let's work on a real solution to the problem discussed in this link you posted.
  • Reply 4 of 39
    billybobskybillybobsky Posts: 1,914member
    the assumption is that charter schools have failed because of paperwork. that claim may have some support, but far more relevent is the fact that charter schools do not work whether they are run by wack jobs of educators or by for profit buisnesses.



    vouchers and charter schools simply do not fix the problem with the american education system. they cover it up. they hide it. they put it in the corner and let it rot like a disfigured limb with gangrene... unless someone here is going to argue that public education should be abandoned all together, its time that the resourses used to support the charter programs, the busing programs, the exemptions etc are put to good use in the establishment of a gradual and openminded standards so that the us' education system is finally the world's best...



    sorry, but i went to damn good magnet schools and believe firmly that the quality of education i recieved should be pursued before we abandon the ship toward vouchers and charter schools. it saddens me that people arent willing to volunteer their time (or for that point money) to improve a system which obviously has direct consequences on their quality of life...
  • Reply 5 of 39
    ghost_user_nameghost_user_name Posts: 22,667member
    And charter schools are...?
  • Reply 6 of 39
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    It may be true that these methods skirt the core problem with public schools. But many have lost patience with public schools. Teachers' unions stop many reforms in their tracks. So why not offer those with low incomes caught in poor schools an "out". Too many poor kids are caught in poor schools right now.
  • Reply 7 of 39
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott

    Too many poor kids are caught in poor schools right now.



    I think poor kids are the least likely to be able to afford the 'out' though.
  • Reply 8 of 39
    xterra48xterra48 Posts: 169member
    I have always agreed with what billybobsky said(so i wont repeat too much). vouchers admit "our schools suck and were not smart enough to fix ther". Vouchers are the worst thing to do to our public school system.
  • Reply 9 of 39
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bunge

    I think poor kids are the least likely to be able to afford the 'out' though.





    Unless they have vouchers. Maybe?
  • Reply 10 of 39
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott

    Unless they have vouchers. Maybe?



    Maybe? Sure. But I think most evidence shows otherwise. Vouchers give a leg up to rich kids and poor kids still get screwed.
  • Reply 11 of 39
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Yea right Every effort to target vouchers to poor kids is shitty public schools is ... stopped. Well not every effort. They try to stop every effort.
  • Reply 12 of 39
    thuh freakthuh freak Posts: 2,664member
    i don't think effort should be to pull kids out of public schools. if public schools are so bad that they are a thing to be avoided, then they should be imroved, or the ones which are beyond help should be closed. I think we should push all public schools up to being 'great'. I haven't really been following just how ragged they've become, or what kind of efforts have been put into them, but if some particular schools are doing real bad, maybe those should be closed. then, the decent ones can then get that much more funding and help. if an area is so unripe with failing schools, then grant the families vouchers; but constant effort, i think, should be put into helping the bad public schools.
  • Reply 13 of 39
    enaena Posts: 667member
    In my area there are waiting lists for the charter schools.



    This is more of a parenting issue than anything else. If parents aren't concerned with the education of their children, I don't think vouchers are going to do much to change their minds.



    Also, I think the charter schools are more of a response to the early sexualization, pro homosexualtiy, and pop-psych-of-the-week-trend NEA/AFT dogma than maybe anything else. Changing the nature of the primary education system in America is about as feasable as nationalized healthcare, and the AMA just isn't going to allow that to happen (and it shouldn't.) The religion of the NEA/AFT isn't about to change---and the system isn't going to change until they do. They have the power---so screw the poor kids and all reform. Keep passing out condoms, pushing homosexuality, cigarettes and beer are drugs, and whatever the heck they feel like. It doesn't matter that they offend large portions of the population, power is as power does whatever it wants.
  • Reply 14 of 39
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bunge

    How would vouchers help reduce the necessary paperwork?



    Because voucher/private schools do not need to show compliance with the huge volume of laws with which charter schools have to comply.



    Charter schools originally did not have to meet many of them as well. However year after year this burder has been added too and now if charters disappear, the conclusion will be that public school choice is unworkable since government can't keep their hands out of everything.



    Nick
  • Reply 15 of 39
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bunge

    Maybe? Sure. But I think most evidence shows otherwise. Vouchers give a leg up to rich kids and poor kids still get screwed.



    How exactly would poor kids still end up screwed?



    Nick
  • Reply 16 of 39
    enaena Posts: 667member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    How exactly would poor kids still end up screwed?



    Nick



    just that the situation stays the same....
  • Reply 17 of 39
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott

    Yea right Every effort to target vouchers to poor kids is shitty public schools is ... stopped. Well not every effort. They try to stop every effort.



    In all honesty, this post doesn't make any sense.
  • Reply 18 of 39
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by thuh Freak

    i don't think effort should be to pull kids out of public schools. if public schools are so bad that they are a thing to be avoided, then they should be imroved, or the ones which are beyond help should be closed. I think we should push all public schools up to being 'great'. I haven't really been following just how ragged they've become, or what kind of efforts have been put into them, but if some particular schools are doing real bad, maybe those should be closed. then, the decent ones can then get that much more funding and help. if an area is so unripe with failing schools, then grant the families vouchers; but constant effort, i think, should be put into helping the bad public schools.



    Umm yea but they've been trying/doing that but here we are. Mean time some kid could go to a better private school with a little help.





    You should read my local paper. They fire a principal and 24 months later the court case ends.
  • Reply 19 of 39
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    How exactly would poor kids still end up screwed?



    If we set up a voucher system that allows a family to choose any school they want to send their kid to, and have transportation paid for, then I'll give it a shot.
  • Reply 20 of 39
    enaena Posts: 667member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott

    They fire a principal and 24 months later the court case ends.





    I think that's very good point---pretty much sums alot of things up.
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