What has become of Camino?

wrong robot · June 2, 2003 3:55PM

Seems like forever since I've heard anything about it, was there a press release or somethign that I missed stating it's been discontinued?

I love camino, I'm using it right now, but it still lacks some things to make it perfect, whats the deal? will it ever be updated? was the name changed again?

mrmister · June 2, 2003 4:46PM

It's updated every night in the nightly build, and there are some significant speed improvements in the nightlies over the .7 release--they went back to the core and picked up the Mozilla 1.4 changes.

ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/camino/nightly/latest/

It's neck and neck with Safari on my system speedwise, and its superior contextual menus make it a lock for best OSX browser...in my opinion, of course.

klinux · June 3, 2003 1:22AM

I am playing with Mozilla Firebird 0.6 on PC and Mac. Still buggy (to be expected) but I like it.

escher · June 3, 2003 10:17AM

Quote:

Originally posted by klinux

I am playing with Mozilla Firebird 0.6 on PC and Mac. Still buggy (to be expected) but I like it.

Unlike the real feathered bird, Mozilla Firebird is butt ugly. Camino is prettier, at least as fast, and more evolved. For anybody who thinks that Camino is languishing, download the latest nightly build and see for yourself, as mrmister suggests.

Camino kicks other browsers' ass!

Escher

steve · June 3, 2003 10:38AM

They should implement the Safari bookmarks repository, or at least share that same data (isn't it XML-based?). Then I'll start using it.

aquatic · June 3, 2003 11:03AM

True. Bookmark management makes Safari scaleable, like iTunes with music. I have thousands of songs and hundreds of bookmarks, no other app can handle that.

mrmister · June 3, 2003 11:14AM

Though I doubt they will ever share the same bookmarks list unless Apple decides to create a unified central bookmarks repository, if you download the latest nightly of Camino you'll see they've adopted the Safari bookmark system.

wrong robot · June 3, 2003 12:09PM

Is there any way to have camino automatically d/l nightly builds?

klinux · June 3, 2003 1:23PM

Man - I have not met a group of people as obsessed as to how a program looks as some Mac users! If you don't like how Firebird looks - change it!

ghost_user_name · June 3, 2003 1:36PM

Quote:

Originally posted by klinux

I have not met a group of people as obsessed as to how a program looks as some Mac users!

DUH. The interface and how it interacts with the user is what makes the Mac experience. If the UI isn't good, then neither is the app. The app could solve a hundred problems, but if the interface is bad, Mac users will trash it until someone makes it better.

If this wasn't true, Apple and the Mac OS wouldn't be alive today. Most of us would have jumped ship to Windows or Linux.

And, FYI, "skinning" Firebird still won't fix the awful behaviors of its interface. It's not just the way it looks that is un_mac-like; it's also the way it works.

escher · June 3, 2003 3:02PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrong Robust

Is there any way to have camino automatically d/l nightly builds?

CaminoKnight can download daily builds for you. Search for it on MacUpdates (or VersionTracker if you can stand its newly clumsy interface).

Escher

mrmister · June 3, 2003 5:18PM

"If you don't like how Firebird looks - change it!"

Hmm. I could build a skin that looks mac-like and not like unto ass, which almost all of the current skins do...or I could use Camino, which looks great now, behaves well and on my system is neck-and-neck for speed.

I'd also have to learn to design XUL skins, too.

I wonder which I will do.

aquatic · June 4, 2003 12:44PM

Yeah linux users always crack me up.

At least FireBird etc from Moz uses SHEETS though, instead of stupid ridiculous Safari. I mean come on what is this with an error being a separate window business, are we using IE here or what?

Camino heisted Safari's bookmarking mechanism you say? The thing about Chimera is that it always used to crash on me. Well next time I'm on broadband I'll grab CaminoKnight (it lost its catchy name

) from VersionTracker with their dumb new interface. God that new interface is dumb. Every time it changes it gets worse!I used to be able to click the size of the download and that was a DIRECT link.

ghost_user_name · June 4, 2003 1:23PM

Slightly off-topic, but...

Quote:

Originally posted by Aquatic

from VersionTracker with their dumb new interface. God that new interface is dumb. Every time it changes it gets worse!I used to be able to click the size of the download and that was a DIRECT link.

...that's why I gave up on VT and finally removed its link from my toolbar a little over a month ago. I'm all over MacUpdate nowadays instead. It's MUCH cleaner than that VersionTracker garbage. If there's ever an app on VT but not MU, I e-mail the developer and put in a request.

bnoyhtuawb · June 4, 2003 2:41PM

Quote:

It's neck and neck with Safari on my system speedwise, and its superior contextual menus make it a lock for best OSX browser...in my opinion, of course.

Have you ever tried to put a user.js file alongsinde the prefs.js file in you profile directory listing the following items:

Code:

user_pref("network.http.max-connections", 36);

user_pref("network.http.max-connections-per-server", 12);

user_pref("network.http.max-persistent-connections-per-proxy", 8);

user_pref("network.http.max-persistent-connections-per-server", 6);

user_pref("nglayout.initialpaint.delay", 0);

If you are on a speedy connection DSL/Cable this will make Mozilla fly (and I think Camino reacts to it as well!). Mozilla since 1.3.1 easily beats Safari in terms of speed (I run a 1Mbit connection). If you are on a really fast connection have s-tload of RAM in a fast Mac you may want to bump the number of connections even further (N. B. you could hit the wall with firewalls because your connection onslaught could be interpreted as a DOS attack ;-).

http://www.mozillazine.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4481 has a discussion on the nglayout.initialpaint.delay bit.

http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...20113144936954 some other good stuff!

Cheers!

klinux · June 4, 2003 3:21PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad

DUH. The interface and how it interacts with the user is what makes the Mac experience. If the UI isn't good, then neither is the app.

Well, I have to disagree with you here. You are essentially saying, in your opinion that to Mac users, form is what makes the user experience. Function does not matter at all.

I cannot see many other users agreeing on your definition of Mac experience.

DUH back to you. 8)

1337_5l4xx0r · June 4, 2003 9:09PM

BNOYHTUAWB: you RULE!!! Thanks for the tip!

cubedude · June 4, 2003 9:20PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R

BNOYHTUAWB: you RULE!!! Thanks for the tip!

I have no clue as to what that means.

badtz · June 4, 2003 9:43PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad

Slightly off-topic, but...

If there's ever an app on VT but not MU, I e-mail the developer and put in a request.

I do the exact same

aquatic · June 4, 2003 10:25PM

snip

ghost_user_name · June 4, 2003 11:39PM

Quote:

Originally posted by klinux

Well, I have to disagree with you here. You are essentially saying, in your opinion that to Mac users, form is what makes the user experience. Function does not matter at all.

I cannot see many other users agreeing on your definition of Mac experience.

This is really something that should be meant for another thread, but I'll indulge briefly here.

Function is important, but "form" is equally important on Macs. It's been that way since Macintosh was first released. Why else do you think people today still fuss about Windows "stealing" the look of Mac OS but not the actual experience? UI not only describes how things look; it also encompases how all elements work together and interact with the user. One of the great boons to the Mac OS is its consistency of behavior. Last year's WWDC videos just became available to free ADC online members. I suggest you watch the one on Adopting Aqua.

I also would suggest you try to find some of the "uglier" RealBasic apps or older Carbon apps on VT and MU and just look at how many people rate them down poorly simply because the interface doesn't act as a proper Mac OS app should. You'll find a lot. I know for a fact that they're out there because I've spent many a time trying to defend these novice developers and immature apps by saying things like, "RealBasic isn't inherently bad; it's just that most RB programmers are beginners to the programming world and aren't experienced with correct UI design."

I ask you this: why do you think so many people (Sure, only 3% now, but that's still a heck of a lot more than 0%.) have stuck by the Mac through the rougher years? I'm talking when we didn't have these great digital hub apps and the unixy Mac OS X and Apple's pro line like FCP and DVDSP. Since the "heavy hitters" like Adobe and Microsoft and Macromedia and Quark and Lightwave and Maya have been on Windows for so long, why have some people stood by their Macs? Is it because the hardware is more powerful? Pfft. I think we can all get a resounding no on that. Is it because it "functions" better? Well, not with these apps. They work the same on Windows as they do on Mac OS. Is it beacuse the "form" is better, that the abstracted interface between the computer and the human is better and that this interface has stricter standards and more consistent rules to follow? I think yes. I'd like to see who else disagrees.

What has become of Camino?

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