Okay. You got me fair and square there. (I'd hold my hands up if I had any...)
Erm. Is it just me...or did the eWeek article seem somewhat 'fumbling'? Is this the best Mathew has? Worst case scenario? Mac San Fran'? By then 0.09 970s? New York? I thought the 970 might debut then. But I didn't think that last year. Seybold? What if you say 'the fall'. Then surely by then?
1. 970 coming. Probably before 04 San Fran'.
2. 1.4-1.8. Probably.
3. New case. Probably.
4. Demo at WWDC..? Probably.
5. Behind closed doors? Why? (No 1.42 G4 Towers left in sig' amounts at retail level?) G4 sales maybe excruciatingly slow...unless than plan to move more with a Quark 6 bundle.
5. Shipping after? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends if they want to really hard sell the last 23 G4 Towers left in the supply chain.
6. Shipping within 2 months of WWDC? Well...didn't the G4? Aren't IBM more capable than Moto'? Didn't we hear 2nd half 2003? Sept' at latest.
7. If Panther is hitting Sept' and Apple release 970s 'now'...then I'd have thought any 10.2.7 version ships on 970s a couple of months before Sept. Shipping mid/late July?
Isn't it all about timing. I'd have thought the timing would be ripe about now.
I dunno. I thought the 'insider 'Cowboy' story had more backbone to it than the eWeek story....
whatever happens, we are all gonna be happy campers by the end of the summer. this fall is gonna be too fun for us! time to ditch the message boards and get to work and play! it's been how many years in the making?
Read between the lines Moki says eweek is off track and I agree. Why:-
Well lets suppose thqat we wern't getting the 970, lets assume we had a 1.4ghz G4 but with a 900mhz FSB what would that on it's own do to the performance?
Now substitute a 1.8ghz 970 with the FSB hyper-transport, Rio et all leave out the 64 bit optomisation... and do you really think this is going to have a similar performance to a G4-er no.
Yes don't believe the hype, work it out for yourself! If Clive Sinclair hadn't got there first Apple coud easilt have called the new PM's the QL's.
In the worlds of hans Solo..."Prepare to shift to lightspeed".
Well lets suppose thqat we wern't getting the 970, lets assume we had a 1.4ghz G4 but with a 900mhz FSB what would that on it's own do to the performance?
Umm yeah. A new stealth G4 coming from the company that can't even get their CPU's to a respectable process size. Of course, even though Moto mentioned previous G4 upgrades for the sake of keeping their investors happy, they probably decided to keep quite about this just for Apple's sake.
Quote:
Now substitute a 1.8ghz 970 with the FSB hyper-transport, Rio et all leave out the 64 bit optomisation... and do you really think this is going to have a similar performance to a G4-er no.
By "Now" here, I think you mean after Apple unveils its magical 900MHz FSB bus machine, they will come out with a new 970? Which 64 bit optimization are you talking about? Hardware or software? In my world the 970 PPC ISA supports 64 bit integer operations. How many bits are in the largest integer for the PPC 970 ISA in your world? Maybe you meant software optimization, but that of course was for Panther which will not be coming out soon. Either way, you are a strange man who needs to think more clearly about what you write before you write it. This isn't chat. Perhaps by "optomisation" you mean that the 970 box will look nicer than previous G4 boxes (since you are never going to get it anyway, I'll explain: "opto" is the Greek prefix for vision, hence optics, optometrists, etc. Also, the Greeks were some ancient people from whom we have received the traditions of the Socratic method and toga parties).
Moki doesn't need your help- he is quite capable of giving his own subtle clues (which I rather like reading).
Quote:
Yes don't believe the hype, work it out for yourself! If Clive Sinclair hadn't got there first Apple coud easilt have called the new PM's the QL's.
Michael Dell, is that you?
Quote:
In the worlds of hans Solo..."Prepare to shift to lightspeed".
Did you know that two of the problems associated with continuous use of speed (chrystal meth, aka uppers) are paranoia and a complete inability to phrase one's own thoughts?
Umm yeah. A new stealth G4 coming from the company that can't even get their CPU's to a respectable process size. Of course, even though Moto mentioned previous G4 upgrades for the sake of keeping their investors happy, they probably decided to keep quite about this just for Apple's sake.
Congratulations on spectacularly missing the point and tossing entirely unwarranted insults. Addison was questioning eweek's implication that the 970 machines would have roughly the same per-cycle performance as a G4. As an argument against this theory, he considers a *hypothetical* (you know, "not real") G4 processor with greatly improved bandwidth and speculates quite reasonably that it would have better performance. Add in the 970's architectural improvements (most notably its very deep out-of-order execution) and it's logical that the 970 will perform substantially better than the G4 without any specific optimizations.
whatever happens, we are all gonna be happy campers by the end of the summer. this fall is gonna be too fun for us! time to ditch the message boards and get to work and play! it's been how many years in the making?
I'm sure that some whiners will show up 1-µsec after Stevie tells it like it is and is gonna be.
Okay, What the heck. None of us really knows what is coming, so we might as well just make our best guess. This is a rumors forum right?
* Power PC 970 introduced at WWDC.
* Availability? Immediatly or within 2 weeks for Single processor machines. Probably 1.4 and 1.8 ghz.
* Dual processors to follow within another 2-3 weeks.
* Initial OS will be some kind of patched version of 10.2.x. Doesn't really matter what it is called.
* Panther will follow with improved compiler and other overall system enhancements plus 64 bit capability.
* Performance? I won't attempt to detail all the possible scenarios. It will vary along with the task. Worst case scenario is maybe 1.25 times compared to a same megahertz G4. Best case Scenario is maybe 3 to 3.5 times for a combination of System bus, floating point and Altivec all working at optimum. Overall average maybe around 1.7 to 2.2 times for most daily operations.
* Powerbook 970? Possible, but I am still doubtful. Not for another 2-3 months.
* X-Serve 970? Not for 2.3 months
* 970 for iMac, eMac, etc? Not till 2004.
* New Motorola G4 chips? Doubtful.
* The day after WWDC keynote, the rumor boards will have a few disgruntled people complaining of how Apple held back and is doomed or complaining that they didn't come in at under $1000. Most of us will be trying to figure out how we can buy one or more or out maxing out our credit cards again.
I've never been right yet, so I have a perfect track record and am due for a change.
There's my rumor predictions and I am standing pat on them now until WWDC or until Apple/S.J. actually says something definitive.
Okay. You got me fair and square there. (I'd hold my hands up if I had any...)
Typing with our nose, are you?
Gad, I'm so off topic.
Hmm...okay, I think we'll see a high-end and mid-range 970 in the lowto middlin' Ghz range. G4 for the low end.
(here's a question: If 10.3 is released at some point for new PM's, does apple have to have separate development forks for the 970 and the older G3/G4 families to maintain compatibility? Anyway, to continue...)
New case. Beta Panther. However, I think that the machines will be a preorder for a few weeks until Panther goes gold. Then, the supply of machines that Apple's been stockpiling will get nice clean Panther images blown into them as they rocket out the door.
Hmm...okay, I think we'll see a high-end and mid-range 970 in the lowto middlin' Ghz range. G4 for the low end.
(here's a question: If 10.3 is released at some point for new PM's, does apple have to have separate development forks for the 970 and the older G3/G4 families to maintain compatibility? Anyway, to continue...)
New case. Beta Panther. However, I think that the machines will be a preorder for a few weeks until Panther goes gold. Then, the supply of machines that Apple's been stockpiling will get nice clean Panther images blown into them as they rocket out the door.
2bits off the top of my head.
I wonder where you people even think up this kind of stuff. I'm sure you read the forums, but just because you know what a 970 is doesn't make you qualified as an armchair pundit. You say Panther will go gold "in a few weeks"? Then Apple should have seeded it to developers already! They haven't, and there's no way they'd have a beta->gold cycle in the span of a few weeks. No, Panther won't ship until September at the very earliest with the semi-public seed this late. They're missing the school refresh cycle, and they know it. That's what Smeagol is for.
And G4's at the low end - I doubt that Apple would have any product line with the same name and two different types of processors. It's not happened in recent memory, and I can't forsee any reason why they would make such a boneheaded maneuver. Apple's all about product differentiation, and mixing and matching G4s and 970s completely destroys that.
And a warning to the rest of you: no armchair pundit who doesn't think through their posts is safe <evil snicker>
One thing I'm curious to find out about, and that I haven't seen much said about, is how do we think Apple will be able to put the 64 bit capability of the 970 to use in ways other people haven't thought of yet? Have forward thinking Apple engineers found ways to to take advantage of that extra bit bandwidth in normal OS operation?
I wonder where you people even think up this kind of stuff. I'm sure you read the forums, but just because you know what a 970 is doesn't make you qualified as an armchair pundit. You say Panther will go gold "in a few weeks"? Then Apple should have seeded it to developers already! They haven't, and there's no way they'd have a beta->gold cycle in the span of a few weeks. No, Panther won't ship until September at the very earliest with the semi-public seed this late. They're missing the school refresh cycle, and they know it. That's what Smeagol is for.
And G4's at the low end - I doubt that Apple would have any product line with the same name and two different types of processors. It's not happened in recent memory, and I can't forsee any reason why they would make such a boneheaded maneuver. Apple's all about product differentiation, and mixing and matching G4s and 970s completely destroys that.
And a warning to the rest of you: no armchair pundit who doesn't think through their posts is safe <evil snicker>
Got me. I hadn't thought about seeding to developers. My bad. As for G4/G5 coexisting...just because it hasn't happened before, doesn't mean it won't. Apple suffered from "not invented here" syndrome for a number of years, but they learned from the problems that created. Perhaps there is a lesson to be learned there. Just because it hasn't been done, doesn't mean it can't or won't. Can you say Pro-sumer?
Lastly, just because you disagree with my post, doesn't make you smarter, or better or in any way more significant. In this game, we are all ( with a few exceptions ) 'armchair pundits'. Given your nic, I'm fairly surprised by the acidity of your response. However, turn about is fair play. Don't be surprised if you are the one getting flamed next time. Disagree if you want, poke holes in lines of thought, but be nice about it. \
And now I'm done talking about it and won't address it again.
Lastly, just because you disagree with my post, doesn't make you smarter, or better or in any way more significant. In this game, we are all ( with a few exceptions ) 'armchair pundits'. Given your nic, I'm fairly surprised by the acidity of your response. However, turn about is fair play. Don't be surprised if you are the one getting flamed next time. Disagree if you want, poke holes in lines of thought, but be nice about it. \
It isn't the disagreement that makes him more interesting to read. It is that he thought things through and used logic to predict the future.
All right. I think all this rumor nonsense has gone to our heads. No need to insult one another because someone said that the gold master of Mac OS 10.3 would come a few months sooner than what another thinks. Nobody knows what will happen (and those that do won't tell), but some are more in tune with tech in general and can give the rest of us 'armchair pundits' some advice in which way things may go.
(back on topic) As for me, I'm just trying not to get too excited about all this. I'm sure many of you can remember MWNY '01 when we were all so sure that the G5s were coming. \
If I don't have any expectations, I can't be disappointed, right?
All right. I think all this rumor nonsense has gone to our heads.
Well, it has gone to some people's heads. There is always a build up before an event like this and inevitably some people wind up expecting far too much. December 2001 is a prime example -- nobody around for that one should fall victim to that again. Remember the madness, reset your expectations, calm down, and wait for Steve to turn on the RDF.
Actually, there is a lot of info in the article. Maybe the speed of the 970 compared to the G4? The single 970 as opposed to dual? Smeagol and Q37 code names? Etc...Normally Mathew R is pretty good, but Moki is also very trustworthy... hmmmm, who to believe? [/B]
If Q37 really is the internal name for the PM970, then we will DEFINATELY see them in june......
Because:
The first PPC-driven PowerMac was launched in march 1994.
Now we are in Q37, counting from that particular PPC launch-date.
Comments
actually politics belongs in AO
Okay. You got me fair and square there. (I'd hold my hands up if I had any...)
Erm. Is it just me...or did the eWeek article seem somewhat 'fumbling'? Is this the best Mathew has? Worst case scenario? Mac San Fran'? By then 0.09 970s? New York? I thought the 970 might debut then. But I didn't think that last year. Seybold? What if you say 'the fall'. Then surely by then?
1. 970 coming. Probably before 04 San Fran'.
2. 1.4-1.8. Probably.
3. New case. Probably.
4. Demo at WWDC..? Probably.
5. Behind closed doors? Why? (No 1.42 G4 Towers left in sig' amounts at retail level?) G4 sales maybe excruciatingly slow...unless than plan to move more with a Quark 6 bundle.
5. Shipping after? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends if they want to really hard sell the last 23 G4 Towers left in the supply chain.
6. Shipping within 2 months of WWDC? Well...didn't the G4? Aren't IBM more capable than Moto'? Didn't we hear 2nd half 2003? Sept' at latest.
7. If Panther is hitting Sept' and Apple release 970s 'now'...then I'd have thought any 10.2.7 version ships on 970s a couple of months before Sept. Shipping mid/late July?
Isn't it all about timing. I'd have thought the timing would be ripe about now.
I dunno. I thought the 'insider 'Cowboy' story had more backbone to it than the eWeek story....
Lemon Bon Bon
Well lets suppose thqat we wern't getting the 970, lets assume we had a 1.4ghz G4 but with a 900mhz FSB what would that on it's own do to the performance?
Now substitute a 1.8ghz 970 with the FSB hyper-transport, Rio et all leave out the 64 bit optomisation... and do you really think this is going to have a similar performance to a G4-er no.
Yes don't believe the hype, work it out for yourself! If Clive Sinclair hadn't got there first Apple coud easilt have called the new PM's the QL's.
In the worlds of hans Solo..."Prepare to shift to lightspeed".
Originally posted by Addison
Well lets suppose thqat we wern't getting the 970, lets assume we had a 1.4ghz G4 but with a 900mhz FSB what would that on it's own do to the performance?
Umm yeah. A new stealth G4 coming from the company that can't even get their CPU's to a respectable process size. Of course, even though Moto mentioned previous G4 upgrades for the sake of keeping their investors happy, they probably decided to keep quite about this just for Apple's sake.
Now substitute a 1.8ghz 970 with the FSB hyper-transport, Rio et all leave out the 64 bit optomisation... and do you really think this is going to have a similar performance to a G4-er no.
By "Now" here, I think you mean after Apple unveils its magical 900MHz FSB bus machine, they will come out with a new 970? Which 64 bit optimization are you talking about? Hardware or software? In my world the 970 PPC ISA supports 64 bit integer operations. How many bits are in the largest integer for the PPC 970 ISA in your world? Maybe you meant software optimization, but that of course was for Panther which will not be coming out soon. Either way, you are a strange man who needs to think more clearly about what you write before you write it. This isn't chat. Perhaps by "optomisation" you mean that the 970 box will look nicer than previous G4 boxes (since you are never going to get it anyway, I'll explain: "opto" is the Greek prefix for vision, hence optics, optometrists, etc. Also, the Greeks were some ancient people from whom we have received the traditions of the Socratic method and toga parties).
Moki doesn't need your help- he is quite capable of giving his own subtle clues (which I rather like reading).
Yes don't believe the hype, work it out for yourself! If Clive Sinclair hadn't got there first Apple coud easilt have called the new PM's the QL's.
Michael Dell, is that you?
In the worlds of hans Solo..."Prepare to shift to lightspeed".
Did you know that two of the problems associated with continuous use of speed (chrystal meth, aka uppers) are paranoia and a complete inability to phrase one's own thoughts?
Originally posted by Yevgeny
Umm yeah. A new stealth G4 coming from the company that can't even get their CPU's to a respectable process size. Of course, even though Moto mentioned previous G4 upgrades for the sake of keeping their investors happy, they probably decided to keep quite about this just for Apple's sake.
Congratulations on spectacularly missing the point and tossing entirely unwarranted insults. Addison was questioning eweek's implication that the 970 machines would have roughly the same per-cycle performance as a G4. As an argument against this theory, he considers a *hypothetical* (you know, "not real") G4 processor with greatly improved bandwidth and speculates quite reasonably that it would have better performance. Add in the 970's architectural improvements (most notably its very deep out-of-order execution) and it's logical that the 970 will perform substantially better than the G4 without any specific optimizations.
Learn to read and understand before spouting off.
Originally posted by whoami
whatever happens, we are all gonna be happy campers by the end of the summer. this fall is gonna be too fun for us! time to ditch the message boards and get to work and play! it's been how many years in the making?
I'm sure that some whiners will show up 1-µsec after Stevie tells it like it is and is gonna be.
* Power PC 970 introduced at WWDC.
* Availability? Immediatly or within 2 weeks for Single processor machines. Probably 1.4 and 1.8 ghz.
* Dual processors to follow within another 2-3 weeks.
* Initial OS will be some kind of patched version of 10.2.x. Doesn't really matter what it is called.
* Panther will follow with improved compiler and other overall system enhancements plus 64 bit capability.
* Performance? I won't attempt to detail all the possible scenarios. It will vary along with the task. Worst case scenario is maybe 1.25 times compared to a same megahertz G4. Best case Scenario is maybe 3 to 3.5 times for a combination of System bus, floating point and Altivec all working at optimum. Overall average maybe around 1.7 to 2.2 times for most daily operations.
* Powerbook 970? Possible, but I am still doubtful. Not for another 2-3 months.
* X-Serve 970? Not for 2.3 months
* 970 for iMac, eMac, etc? Not till 2004.
* New Motorola G4 chips? Doubtful.
* The day after WWDC keynote, the rumor boards will have a few disgruntled people complaining of how Apple held back and is doomed or complaining that they didn't come in at under $1000. Most of us will be trying to figure out how we can buy one or more or out maxing out our credit cards again.
I've never been right yet, so I have a perfect track record and am due for a change.
There's my rumor predictions and I am standing pat on them now until WWDC or until Apple/S.J. actually says something definitive.
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
Okay. You got me fair and square there. (I'd hold my hands up if I had any...)
Typing with our nose, are you?
Gad, I'm so off topic.
Hmm...okay, I think we'll see a high-end and mid-range 970 in the lowto middlin' Ghz range. G4 for the low end.
(here's a question: If 10.3 is released at some point for new PM's, does apple have to have separate development forks for the 970 and the older G3/G4 families to maintain compatibility? Anyway, to continue...)
New case. Beta Panther. However, I think that the machines will be a preorder for a few weeks until Panther goes gold. Then, the supply of machines that Apple's been stockpiling will get nice clean Panther images blown into them as they rocket out the door.
2bits off the top of my head.
Originally posted by tsukurite
Hmm...okay, I think we'll see a high-end and mid-range 970 in the lowto middlin' Ghz range. G4 for the low end.
(here's a question: If 10.3 is released at some point for new PM's, does apple have to have separate development forks for the 970 and the older G3/G4 families to maintain compatibility? Anyway, to continue...)
New case. Beta Panther. However, I think that the machines will be a preorder for a few weeks until Panther goes gold. Then, the supply of machines that Apple's been stockpiling will get nice clean Panther images blown into them as they rocket out the door.
2bits off the top of my head.
I wonder where you people even think up this kind of stuff. I'm sure you read the forums, but just because you know what a 970 is doesn't make you qualified as an armchair pundit. You say Panther will go gold "in a few weeks"? Then Apple should have seeded it to developers already! They haven't, and there's no way they'd have a beta->gold cycle in the span of a few weeks. No, Panther won't ship until September at the very earliest with the semi-public seed this late. They're missing the school refresh cycle, and they know it. That's what Smeagol is for.
And G4's at the low end - I doubt that Apple would have any product line with the same name and two different types of processors. It's not happened in recent memory, and I can't forsee any reason why they would make such a boneheaded maneuver. Apple's all about product differentiation, and mixing and matching G4s and 970s completely destroys that.
And a warning to the rest of you: no armchair pundit who doesn't think through their posts is safe <evil snicker>
Originally posted by Anonymous Karma
And a warning to the rest of you: no armchair pundit who doesn't think through their posts is safe <evil snicker>
How come you get to make the "rules?"
Originally posted by Anonymous Karma
I wonder where you people even think up this kind of stuff. I'm sure you read the forums, but just because you know what a 970 is doesn't make you qualified as an armchair pundit. You say Panther will go gold "in a few weeks"? Then Apple should have seeded it to developers already! They haven't, and there's no way they'd have a beta->gold cycle in the span of a few weeks. No, Panther won't ship until September at the very earliest with the semi-public seed this late. They're missing the school refresh cycle, and they know it. That's what Smeagol is for.
And G4's at the low end - I doubt that Apple would have any product line with the same name and two different types of processors. It's not happened in recent memory, and I can't forsee any reason why they would make such a boneheaded maneuver. Apple's all about product differentiation, and mixing and matching G4s and 970s completely destroys that.
And a warning to the rest of you: no armchair pundit who doesn't think through their posts is safe <evil snicker>
Got me. I hadn't thought about seeding to developers. My bad. As for G4/G5 coexisting...just because it hasn't happened before, doesn't mean it won't. Apple suffered from "not invented here" syndrome for a number of years, but they learned from the problems that created. Perhaps there is a lesson to be learned there. Just because it hasn't been done, doesn't mean it can't or won't. Can you say Pro-sumer?
Lastly, just because you disagree with my post, doesn't make you smarter, or better or in any way more significant. In this game, we are all ( with a few exceptions ) 'armchair pundits'. Given your nic, I'm fairly surprised by the acidity of your response. However, turn about is fair play. Don't be surprised if you are the one getting flamed next time. Disagree if you want, poke holes in lines of thought, but be nice about it.
And now I'm done talking about it and won't address it again.
2bits
Originally posted by Aphelion
Moki is sandbagging
cool!
Originally posted by jante99
How come you get to make the "rules?"
Because he is a smart and reasonable guy. Intelligent discussion is far more entertaining than rampant speculation.
Originally posted by tsukurite
Lastly, just because you disagree with my post, doesn't make you smarter, or better or in any way more significant. In this game, we are all ( with a few exceptions ) 'armchair pundits'. Given your nic, I'm fairly surprised by the acidity of your response. However, turn about is fair play. Don't be surprised if you are the one getting flamed next time. Disagree if you want, poke holes in lines of thought, but be nice about it.
It isn't the disagreement that makes him more interesting to read. It is that he thought things through and used logic to predict the future.
(back on topic) As for me, I'm just trying not to get too excited about all this. I'm sure many of you can remember MWNY '01 when we were all so sure that the G5s were coming.
If I don't have any expectations, I can't be disappointed, right?
Originally posted by bauman
All right. I think all this rumor nonsense has gone to our heads.
Well, it has gone to some people's heads. There is always a build up before an event like this and inevitably some people wind up expecting far too much. December 2001 is a prime example -- nobody around for that one should fall victim to that again. Remember the madness, reset your expectations, calm down, and wait for Steve to turn on the RDF.
Actually, there is a lot of info in the article. Maybe the speed of the 970 compared to the G4? The single 970 as opposed to dual? Smeagol and Q37 code names? Etc...Normally Mathew R is pretty good, but Moki is also very trustworthy... hmmmm, who to believe?
If Q37 really is the internal name for the PM970, then we will DEFINATELY see them in june......
Because:
The first PPC-driven PowerMac was launched in march 1994.
Now we are in Q37, counting from that particular PPC launch-date.
(9 years times 4 quarters = 36 + 1 = Q37)
So the real question is, is Q37 the codename???
Moki??