I can see some reason for Apple buying SGI or the Cray component as a way of getting into the high-end stuff, but I don't see Apple spending any time and money on anything that isn't OSX. The iPod, QuickTime and future apps may run on Windows and such, but I think Jobs decided along time ago that all Apple computers would run one OS without a "lite" version and probably even now without a "heavy" version. That's why we see no pda's or tablets...yet.
I feel Apple will continue to evolve toward higher end hardware, but only based on the one OS to "rule them all." I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume that Panther will run at 32 and 64-bit modes and that the 970 will hopefully work well in single and multiple chip archetectures and that the OS will take both in stride. At least I hope that is what happens.
We could then have "big iron" software like Shake run on OSX.5 at 64 bits in dual core, quad chip boxes, while iTunes runs at 32 bit mode single chip iBooks, with the exact SAME OS. I think that is Steve's hope. This can only be done with a unix-based, scaleable OS using newly adopted industry standards. This future makes all of Steve's comments sensible and puts the Mac in the one position no other company can imitate for years to come.
So I think if Apple would by SGI it may be to gain credibility and name rec and an experience big-iron workforce, but it will not use any rebranded software, it will be to use OSX.
So I think if Apple would by SGI it may be to gain credibility and name rec and an experience big-iron workforce, but it will not use any rebranded software, it will be to use OSX.
Nobody spoke of 'rebranding' anything.
Apple will be Apple.
SGI will be SGI (or Silicon Graphics).
It's just that SGI could brand, market and sell (Apple engineered) Mac OS X high end workstations and super servers. SGI would make Mac OS X its strategic platform in favor of Linux and migrate it's IRIX/MIPS developers and users onto Mac OS X.
The most significant products i imagine that would emerge out of such an aquisition would be top class high end "flagship" workstations that would be the envy of every Mac user: 4-8 or 8-16 PPC970 boxes with a high end graphics subsystem.(NVIDIA is working on workstation class chipsets, i believe?)
Just as importantly would be Apple/SGI's solutions for high performance computing: renderfarms, superservers and single-image superclusters. Xserve and XRAID would just be the beginning...
Apple need to get into expanding markets not contracting ones like the one of super computers and main frames. The only reason to get SGI or Cray is if they have patented technology in hard or software that Apple can use in OS X.
When Apple started selling music over the internet they did not have any experience with but nor does the competition. OTOH if the jump into mainframes and super computers, Apple would still have no experience while the competition would have a lot of it.
Anyone remember the killing of the clones and the ill feelings at Motorola and what happened after that? I do not want that to happen with IBM. However this does not mean that Apple have to stay out of blade servers and work stations. As long as IBM make substantially more money on selling 970 CPUs for the ordinary Mac products than loosing money on Apple making inroads into IBMs workstation and blade market IBM should be happy. Money talks
An antitrust agreement between Microsoft and the government was reinstated on June 16, 1995. A federal judge had rejected the 1994 agreement as being too lenient.
Microsoft first ran afoul of the government in 1990, when the Federal Trade Commission, and later the Justice Department, began a broad investigation into many of Microsoft's business practices. A complaint filed in the summer of 1994 only dealt with the company's operating systems, however, and the resulting agreement restructured Microsoft's licensing fees. The reinstatement of the agreement was seen as a victory for Microsoft.
IDG just announced that Greg Jozwiak will hold the MWCPNY keynote. IMO, this signals that the Steve Jobs keynote at WWDC will focus (almost) exclusively on software, i.e. Panther, and Jozwiak's MWCPNY keynote will focus on (new) hardware. What do you guys think?
I don't think SGI would be a smart purchase for Apple. That move could be construed as an attack on IBM, and Apple needs all the momentum it can get.
Focus is the key here-Apple needs to sell Macs to survive. Every square in the "4-box matrix" needs to have a strong offering. Right now, the iBook (consumer portable) is the only really strong offering, the Powerbook (pro portable) is slightly above its competitors, the iMac (consumer desktop) is slightly behind, and the Powermac (pro desktop) is far behind.
Gadgets like the iPod are helping Apple remain profitable, but with strong offerings in the "4 box matrix," Apple need not rely on it for such a large percentage of its sales. The Xserve is an experiment at this point; it's still too early to see whether or not it will pan out.
Hopefully at WWDC we will see Powermacs that return to parity with their PC competitors, and maybe even a Powerbook that'll beat back the Centrino nipping at its heels.
IDG just announced that Greg Jozwiak will hold the MWCPNY keynote. IMO, this signals that the Steve Jobs keynote at WWDC will focus (almost) exclusively on software, i.e. Panther, and Jozwiak's MWCPNY keynote will focus on (new) hardware. What do you guys think?
Escher
I dunno. With Steve Jobs' ego being what it is, I don't think he would allow anyone else to make the announcement for the Powermacs. Of course, July 14 for Powermacs would be just fine for me...right before my birthday!
I don't think SGI would be a smart purchase for Apple. That move could be construed as an attack on IBM, and Apple needs all the momentum it can get.
IBM of all companies is very MARKET DRIVEN.
That is i doubt there is much intersection between IBM's and SGI's customers. Both potentially serve different markets - IBM: enterprise and commercial IT, SGI: 3D, digital media/film.
SGI is really a small niche player in the high end computing sphere. It wouldn't make much difference if Apple aquired it and started producing Mac OS X Servers.
In fact, it probably would be BETTER overall for IBM and the server market once SGI stops selling Linux machines and adds diversity (with Mac OS X Servers) to the market.
(If it were Sun, i'd expect IBM to be worried, cos Sun plays in pretty much the same market as itself).
--
I will agree that Apple's product quadrangle has gone awry...and Apple does need to focus it's products again.
I think this will happen in the form of updated iMacs taking over from eMacs. Maybe this is obvious.
iBooks being overhauled with a REVOLUTIONARY design akin to the original iMac, later this year...making it the real flagship Apple product in terms of revenue and sales.
--
Also i agree that the thread has meandered somewhat.
How it would be linked to the thread is if Mac OS X (Server) were ever to be ported to Intel/IA64 bet your bottom dollar that it will be announced at a WWDC. So maybe this year? Who knows? A surprise?
If that were to happen, be sure that the port will be linked to a partnership with one of IBM, HP, Sun or SGI. Like the NeXT days. However, those who rememeber their NeXT history will also know that those deals fizzled out every time...even with the best of intentions. The safest bet would be to aquire the partner - SGI being the most likely and easiest target.
IDG just announced that Greg Jozwiak will hold the MWCPNY keynote. IMO, this signals that the Steve Jobs keynote at WWDC will focus (almost) exclusively on software, i.e. Panther, and Jozwiak's MWCPNY keynote will focus on (new) hardware. What do you guys think?
Like most people here, I'm having a hard time imagining Steve wouldn't want to announce something as big as the first 970 systems himself.
However, since this Joswiak is Apple's hardware VP, perhaps he'd be announcing something like a 970 version of the Xserve. Most of the Xserve announcements so far have been fairly low key -- not Stevenote kinda stuff -- and MWCPNY would be a good audience for server hardware.
This is pure speculation on my part. I've not heard anything yet myself that hints at new Xserve hardware being on the way.
if it is new hardware, SJ himself will present it...VP of hardware WILL NOT introduce new PM nor new PB nor new anything of real interest...SJ will talk at WWDC and show us, quickly, lots of stuff...most "not available yet, but pre-order at the apple store soon", Joz will go over what SJ showed at WWDC and give updates on availability and expand on it's speed, abilities, etc
WWDC, Apple is partly setting itself up as the 'new SGI' anyhow. Stick a tiered 'Power'Mac line based upon the 970, an 'X-Station' Workstation Tower (a true Mac Workstation...with a decent graphics card as standard...), X-Grid/Raid and Serve solutions...then Apple can make their own street cred'. 65% of Workstation folks are going Apple this year. Apple don't need SGI for that. They don't need to buy Maya (though a Maya and Shake combo' could be a killer...) cos Alias already have Maya 4.5 on Mac. Apple are setting there 'Iron' up to support their education infrastructure that is still intact. They're moving big time into video. They're making a shift to the workstation market big time. 'Shake' aquistion painted a sign on Apple's head 'Wintel, we're about to own you'.
SGI purchase..? Not gonna happen.
Apple will show us why not at WWDC.
You don't need an SGI with a dual 970 and a decent ATI/Nvidia card with bags of ram. Apple are putting their own solutions up. Quarter of a billion? That's almost a year R&D for Apple.
Apple have already said they're going to stick to small aquisitions.
Apple have a better brand these days than SGI. A brand that will shine brighter come the 970...cometh the Panther.
IBM's 970 product will stick to their Server market.
Apple's 970 product will penetrate creative markets, print, workstation, edu', bio-enterprise and small business.
Apple and IBM are the new SGI. When Pixar finally orders a renderfarm of 970 X-serves it will be cast in stone.
Like most people here, I'm having a hard time imagining Steve wouldn't want to announce something as big as the first 970 systems himself.
Agreed.
iCreate or whatever the Cancelled Macworld New York show is called these days is more about creative solutions.
I'm guessing Joz will show 970 solutions eg Final Cut 4 with rendering times four times faster or something. That integrated with DVDPro2 etc.
iMac2 showing off the digital hub.
eMagic for Music pros blazing away with a million audio plug-ins on Jag'/970.
Seems Apple is bringing alot of the timing for stuff away from shows and onto a more flexible 'when it's ready' release schedule that makes more sense for them.
I think at the very least, a 970 behind closed doors. Bumped Al laptops at the least...G4 1 gig for 12, 1 gig G4 and better graphic card for 15 inch Al. A lengthy preview of Panther. This is what the show is really about. Any more is a bonus, I guess.
Comments
I feel Apple will continue to evolve toward higher end hardware, but only based on the one OS to "rule them all." I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume that Panther will run at 32 and 64-bit modes and that the 970 will hopefully work well in single and multiple chip archetectures and that the OS will take both in stride. At least I hope that is what happens.
We could then have "big iron" software like Shake run on OSX.5 at 64 bits in dual core, quad chip boxes, while iTunes runs at 32 bit mode single chip iBooks, with the exact SAME OS. I think that is Steve's hope. This can only be done with a unix-based, scaleable OS using newly adopted industry standards. This future makes all of Steve's comments sensible and puts the Mac in the one position no other company can imitate for years to come.
So I think if Apple would by SGI it may be to gain credibility and name rec and an experience big-iron workforce, but it will not use any rebranded software, it will be to use OSX.
Originally posted by MacGregor
So I think if Apple would by SGI it may be to gain credibility and name rec and an experience big-iron workforce, but it will not use any rebranded software, it will be to use OSX.
Nobody spoke of 'rebranding' anything.
Apple will be Apple.
SGI will be SGI (or Silicon Graphics).
It's just that SGI could brand, market and sell (Apple engineered) Mac OS X high end workstations and super servers. SGI would make Mac OS X its strategic platform in favor of Linux and migrate it's IRIX/MIPS developers and users onto Mac OS X.
The most significant products i imagine that would emerge out of such an aquisition would be top class high end "flagship" workstations that would be the envy of every Mac user: 4-8 or 8-16 PPC970 boxes with a high end graphics subsystem.(NVIDIA is working on workstation class chipsets, i believe?)
Just as importantly would be Apple/SGI's solutions for high performance computing: renderfarms, superservers and single-image superclusters. Xserve and XRAID would just be the beginning...
When Apple started selling music over the internet they did not have any experience with but nor does the competition. OTOH if the jump into mainframes and super computers, Apple would still have no experience while the competition would have a lot of it.
Anyone remember the killing of the clones and the ill feelings at Motorola and what happened after that? I do not want that to happen with IBM. However this does not mean that Apple have to stay out of blade servers and work stations. As long as IBM make substantially more money on selling 970 CPUs for the ordinary Mac products than loosing money on Apple making inroads into IBMs workstation and blade market IBM should be happy. Money talks
Originally posted by Thai Moof
^----and exactly how is this related to WWDC?
Content creep....and no new news.
Originally posted by MacGregor
no new news.
This is the quote of the month. Or two? Or three?! Please put it on AI's front page.
1995 Microsoft antitrust settlement reinstated
An antitrust agreement between Microsoft and the government was reinstated on June 16, 1995. A federal judge had rejected the 1994 agreement as being too lenient.
Microsoft first ran afoul of the government in 1990, when the Federal Trade Commission, and later the Justice Department, began a broad investigation into many of Microsoft's business practices. A complaint filed in the summer of 1994 only dealt with the company's operating systems, however, and the resulting agreement restructured Microsoft's licensing fees. The reinstatement of the agreement was seen as a victory for Microsoft.
Escher
Focus is the key here-Apple needs to sell Macs to survive. Every square in the "4-box matrix" needs to have a strong offering. Right now, the iBook (consumer portable) is the only really strong offering, the Powerbook (pro portable) is slightly above its competitors, the iMac (consumer desktop) is slightly behind, and the Powermac (pro desktop) is far behind.
Gadgets like the iPod are helping Apple remain profitable, but with strong offerings in the "4 box matrix," Apple need not rely on it for such a large percentage of its sales. The Xserve is an experiment at this point; it's still too early to see whether or not it will pan out.
Hopefully at WWDC we will see Powermacs that return to parity with their PC competitors, and maybe even a Powerbook that'll beat back the Centrino nipping at its heels.
Originally posted by Escher
IDG just announced that Greg Jozwiak will hold the MWCPNY keynote. IMO, this signals that the Steve Jobs keynote at WWDC will focus (almost) exclusively on software, i.e. Panther, and Jozwiak's MWCPNY keynote will focus on (new) hardware. What do you guys think?
Escher
I dunno. With Steve Jobs' ego being what it is, I don't think he would allow anyone else to make the announcement for the Powermacs. Of course, July 14 for Powermacs would be just fine for me...right before my birthday!
they may announce speed bumps but the keynote will be a rehash of past ones and a 'how great are apple...' type thing
Originally posted by Gizzmonic
I don't think SGI would be a smart purchase for Apple. That move could be construed as an attack on IBM, and Apple needs all the momentum it can get.
IBM of all companies is very MARKET DRIVEN.
That is i doubt there is much intersection between IBM's and SGI's customers. Both potentially serve different markets - IBM: enterprise and commercial IT, SGI: 3D, digital media/film.
SGI is really a small niche player in the high end computing sphere. It wouldn't make much difference if Apple aquired it and started producing Mac OS X Servers.
In fact, it probably would be BETTER overall for IBM and the server market once SGI stops selling Linux machines and adds diversity (with Mac OS X Servers) to the market.
(If it were Sun, i'd expect IBM to be worried, cos Sun plays in pretty much the same market as itself).
--
I will agree that Apple's product quadrangle has gone awry...and Apple does need to focus it's products again.
I think this will happen in the form of updated iMacs taking over from eMacs. Maybe this is obvious.
iBooks being overhauled with a REVOLUTIONARY design akin to the original iMac, later this year...making it the real flagship Apple product in terms of revenue and sales.
--
Also i agree that the thread has meandered somewhat.
How it would be linked to the thread is if Mac OS X (Server) were ever to be ported to Intel/IA64 bet your bottom dollar that it will be announced at a WWDC. So maybe this year? Who knows? A surprise?
If that were to happen, be sure that the port will be linked to a partnership with one of IBM, HP, Sun or SGI. Like the NeXT days. However, those who rememeber their NeXT history will also know that those deals fizzled out every time...even with the best of intentions. The safest bet would be to aquire the partner - SGI being the most likely and easiest target.
Originally posted by Escher
IDG just announced that Greg Jozwiak will hold the MWCPNY keynote. IMO, this signals that the Steve Jobs keynote at WWDC will focus (almost) exclusively on software, i.e. Panther, and Jozwiak's MWCPNY keynote will focus on (new) hardware. What do you guys think?
Like most people here, I'm having a hard time imagining Steve wouldn't want to announce something as big as the first 970 systems himself.
However, since this Joswiak is Apple's hardware VP, perhaps he'd be announcing something like a 970 version of the Xserve. Most of the Xserve announcements so far have been fairly low key -- not Stevenote kinda stuff -- and MWCPNY would be a good audience for server hardware.
This is pure speculation on my part. I've not heard anything yet myself that hints at new Xserve hardware being on the way.
g
SGI purchase..? Not gonna happen.
Apple will show us why not at WWDC.
You don't need an SGI with a dual 970 and a decent ATI/Nvidia card with bags of ram. Apple are putting their own solutions up. Quarter of a billion? That's almost a year R&D for Apple.
Apple have already said they're going to stick to small aquisitions.
Apple have a better brand these days than SGI. A brand that will shine brighter come the 970...cometh the Panther.
IBM's 970 product will stick to their Server market.
Apple's 970 product will penetrate creative markets, print, workstation, edu', bio-enterprise and small business.
Apple and IBM are the new SGI. When Pixar finally orders a renderfarm of 970 X-serves it will be cast in stone.
Lemon Bon Bon
Like most people here, I'm having a hard time imagining Steve wouldn't want to announce something as big as the first 970 systems himself.
Agreed.
iCreate or whatever the Cancelled Macworld New York show is called these days is more about creative solutions.
I'm guessing Joz will show 970 solutions eg Final Cut 4 with rendering times four times faster or something. That integrated with DVDPro2 etc.
iMac2 showing off the digital hub.
eMagic for Music pros blazing away with a million audio plug-ins on Jag'/970.
Seems Apple is bringing alot of the timing for stuff away from shows and onto a more flexible 'when it's ready' release schedule that makes more sense for them.
I think at the very least, a 970 behind closed doors. Bumped Al laptops at the least...G4 1 gig for 12, 1 gig G4 and better graphic card for 15 inch Al. A lengthy preview of Panther. This is what the show is really about. Any more is a bonus, I guess.
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
65% of Workstation folks are going Apple this year.
I have been hearing this statement around here lately, I must have missed it, where did it come from?
Originally posted by Lemmingway
Stick to what they said they'll announce or showcase, and you won't go wrong.
But wheres the fun in that