No more OS 9 with new G4's?

romulusromulus
Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
Here's something to think about:



Considering Steve "No More Floppies" Jobs' propensity for -- how shall I say this? -- "encouraging" us all to embrace the latest technology... and considering his announcement at the recent Developers' Conference that "Mac OS 9 is dead"... what is the likelihood that the new G4 towers, when they're introduced at MWNY or whenever, will *not* ship with OS 9 as a bootable operating system?



Steve "Move Your Butt to OS X" Jobs would never do such a thing! Or would he?



Your thoughts on this are welcome.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 15
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    [quote]Originally posted by Romulus:

    <strong>Here's something to think about:



    Considering Steve "No More Floppies" Jobs' propensity for -- how shall I say this? -- "encouraging" us all to embrace the latest technology... and considering his announcement at the recent Developers' Conference that "Mac OS 9 is dead"... what is the likelihood that the new G4 towers, when they're introduced at MWNY or whenever, will *not* ship with OS 9 as a bootable operating system?



    Steve "Move Your Butt to OS X" Jobs would never do such a thing! Or would he?



    Your thoughts on this are welcome.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Well he can do this, but the problem is that many software especially the educative soft does not work under classic. For this software i have to boot under mac os 9. If Apple stop releasing a bootable os 9, he will loose many customers.
  • Reply 2 of 15
    zerozero Posts: 39member
    [quote]Originally posted by Romulus:

    <strong>Here's something to think about:



    [...]



    Steve "Move Your Butt to OS X" Jobs would never do such a thing! Or would he?



    Your thoughts on this are welcome.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    No he can't do that yet. In my opinion it's much to early to get entirely rid of our beloved mac os 9. Many musician still need more power (G5 please, Steve!) and of course their applications that still run only on 9. I think Jobs will anounce "no more Mac OS 9 preinstalled" at MWNY 2003 not 2002.

    Well, on the other hand installing Mac OS 9 is not much of a problem. Get a 9.2.2 image and keep it safe for the next 2 years... you never now what Steve is up to.



    cheers

    zero
  • Reply 3 of 15
    stealthriderstealthrider Posts: 126member
    [quote]Originally posted by zero:

    <strong>



    No he can't do that yet. In my opinion it's much to early to get entirely rid of our beloved mac os 9. Many musician still need more power (G5 please, Steve!) and of course their applications that still run only on 9. I think Jobs will anounce "no more Mac OS 9 preinstalled" at MWNY 2003 not 2002.

    Well, on the other hand installing Mac OS 9 is not much of a problem. Get a 9.2.2 image and keep it safe for the next 2 years... you never now what Steve is up to.



    cheers

    zero</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Os 9.2.2 is a problem for schools that have to have macs ready by a certin deadline and cant install OS 9 on, say, a hundred machines. That's a pain in the butt.
  • Reply 4 of 15
    spotbugspotbug Posts: 361member
    With one of those no-OS-9-booting Macs, I, personally, wouldn't be able to use my digital camera or my scanner. Neither works in OS X or OS X's Classic environment - only work when booted in 9.



    I'm not saying I have a big investment in these devices (the camera is a $60 POS and the scanner is 3 years old and SCSI), but I imagine there are people that would lose even more functionality than I would (music people, in particular). I'm just illustrating the fact that there is still some 9-booting dependence out there (here). For some people (like me), it's not a matter of not wanting to dump 9, it's a matter of not being able to.



    By the way, I also wouldn't be able to use my external CD burner, but that's not a big deal because I assume the new machine would have an internal burner that worked in OS X.



    [ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: spotbug ]</p>
  • Reply 5 of 15
    bigcbigc Posts: 1,224member
    [quote]Originally posted by spotbug:

    <strong>With one of those no-OS-9-booting Macs, I, personally, wouldn't be able to use my digital camera or my scanner. Neither works in OS X or OS X's Classic environment - only work when booted in 9.



    I'm not saying I have a big investment in these devices (the camera is a $60 POS and the scanner is 3 years old and SCSI), but I imagine there are people that would lose even more functionality than I would (music people, in particular). I'm just illustrating the fact that there is still some 9-booting dependence out there (here). For some people (like me), it's not a matter of not wanting to dump 9, it's a matter of not being able to.



    By the way, I also wouldn't be able to use my external CD burner, but that's not a big deal because I assume the new machine would have an internal burner that worked in OS X.



    [ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: spotbug ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Have you tried vuescan for your scsi scanner, works for me.
  • Reply 6 of 15
    romulusromulus Posts: 4member
    [quote]Originally posted by spotbug:

    <strong>With one of those no-OS-9-booting Macs, I, personally, wouldn't be able to use my digital camera or my scanner. Neither works in OS X or OS X's Classic environment - only work when booted in 9.



    I'm not saying I have a big investment in these devices (the camera is a $60 POS and the scanner is 3 years old and SCSI), but I imagine there are people that would lose even more functionality than I would (music people, in particular). I'm just illustrating the fact that there is still some 9-booting dependence out there (here). For some people (like me), it's not a matter of not wanting to dump 9, it's a matter of not being able to.



    By the way, I also wouldn't be able to use my external CD burner, but that's not a big deal because I assume the new machine would have an internal burner that worked in OS X.



    [ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: spotbug ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Here's my concern, Spotbug...



    When Apple introduced the first no-floppy Macs, many people had no easy way to transfer files from their old Mac to their new one. (For the average Mac user back then, networking the two Macs together was *not* easy.)



    Jobs' response? "That's *your* problem!"



    When Apple introduced the first Macs that didn't have serial ports for AppleTalk printers, many people had no way to use their Apple LaserWriters and other old (but still perfectly functional) priinters.



    Jobs' response? "That's *your* problem!"



    When Apple came out with those beautiful LCD monitors that only had DVI connectors, many people wanted to know how they could use one with their older Macs.



    Jobs' response? "That's *your* problem!"



    So when people complain that because the new G4's can't boot into OS 9, they can't do this, that or the other thing... what do you think Mr. Jobs' response would be??



    M y prediction:



    The new towers will still be able to run OS 9 in classic moded, but they won't be able to boot into it. And if you have a problem with that... hey, that's *your* problem!
  • Reply 7 of 15
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Jobs could say that because all the other problems could be solved with inexpensive third party products.



    If the next generation of PowerMacs can't boot OS 9, there probably won't be a $40 adapter from Griffin that works around the problem...
  • Reply 8 of 15
    romulusromulus Posts: 4member
    [quote]Originally posted by Amorph:

    <strong>Jobs could say that because all the other problems could be solved with inexpensive third party products.



    If the next generation of PowerMacs can't boot OS 9, there probably won't be a $40 adapter from Griffin that works around the problem...</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I sure hope you're right. All I know is that Steve would very much like to have every Mac user exclusively on OS X and to put OS 9 six feet under, and the man has been known to use a litte "wrist twisting" to get what he wants.
  • Reply 9 of 15
    michael greymichael grey Posts: 384member
    I can tell you in two words why Macs will continue to come with OS9 installed: Quark Xpress.





    I've lost count of the number of mac-only designers I know who are have that love/hate thing with Quark. They hate it but they won't switch to InDesign, and if Apple shuts them out by not shipping a Quark-ready machine, it will be a big deal.



    Personally, I can think of at least two classic-only apps that will make me keep 9 on my system for the forseeable future. I'm sure everyone here has one or two they'd hate to part with as well.
  • Reply 10 of 15
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Well, the other part of it is audio software. There's almost nothing on OSX, yet mac greatly dominate the audio industry. Pro Tools has no OSX versions even though they just came out with the mac only (for now) |HD system. With the audio industry such a large consumer of apple products, there's no way they are going to alienate a massive customer base.



    and quark, too
  • Reply 11 of 15
    lucaluca Posts: 3,833member
    Before they kill OS 9 they need to fix OS X. I've barely used it (on my brother's Bondi iMac) but even from navigating around the Finder and casually browsing the internet, I can say that it looks pretty on the outside but it's not that great. There are a lot of little annoyances that some people may write off and say "so what" but I am really peeved by:



    1. Stupid zoom boxes: In a folder, the zoom boxes are as stupid as the zoom boxes in system 6. Apple's decided to make them less intelligent than the zoom boxes in OS 9 for some reason. In OS 9, when you click a zoom box, it automatically fits the window around the icons in it. In OS X, it extends the window down and to the right to make it fit, but it doesn't move anything up and left.



    2. No global views settings: People complained about this when OS 8 was released, and it was finally fixed with Standard Views. Now the problem has been reintroduced. You can't set every window to obey a standard set of view rules. You have to individually set each one to what you want. I've tried using this "Global" radio button in a view menu somewhere, but it doesn't do anything.



    3. No easy way to show/hide dock: You can have the dock hide until you move your mouse over it, but I like to see it. It's just that when I want to grab at a scale box or scroll bar at the bottom of the screen, I want to have a single button that makes the dock disappear temporarily, so I can reach at the right place without going into the System Prefs.



    4. Apple's Dogma about a two button mouse: Apple has something against two button mice, yet they have to program them into the OS. Since the Special menu is gone, there is no easy, intuitive way for the OS 9 user to empty the trash without a two button mouse. In fact, there are many actions that I don't know how I would perform if my brother didn't have a two button mouse. So if their new OS operates so well with one, why not make one?



    I know I'll go to OS X eventually, but not yet. Internet browsing is very slow. Actually I do love the programs Fire and Mail, both OS X only. Eudora is ugly and kind of confusing and cluttered for mail, but OS X Mail is wonderful.



    OS 9 seems like a powerful OS while OS X makes up for its lack of power through eye candy.
  • Reply 12 of 15
    lundylundy Posts: 4,466member
    [quote]Since the Special menu is gone, there is no easy, intuitive way for the OS 9 user to empty the trash without a two button mouse.<hr></blockquote>



    Uhhh...



    1) Press on the Trash with the LEFT (or only) mouse button. "Empty Trash" pops up.



    2) Choose "Empty Trash" from the Finder menu.





    As to the original question: Jobs said at the Keynote at WWDC that OS 9 was dead for &lt;i&gt;developers&lt;/i&gt;, but not for the users.
  • Reply 13 of 15
    romulusromulus Posts: 4member
    [quote]Originally posted by lundy:

    <strong>



    As to the original question: Jobs said at the Keynote at WWDC that OS 9 was dead for &lt;i&gt;developers&lt;/i&gt;, but not for the users.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I know that, but I'm wondering how long Apple (a.k.a. Jobs) is going to sell and support an op sys that has been "end-of-lifed" in terms of development. One month? Two months? Six months? Remember, if Apple installs OS 9 on a new G4, the company is obligated to support that OS for at least as long as the warranty... and support costs money. So the sooner Apple dumps OS 9, the better -- at least in terms of profitability.



    At some point in the (very) near future, Apple is going to make OS 9 go bye-bye for *everyone,* IMO.
  • Reply 14 of 15
    photoeditorphotoeditor Posts: 244member
    Remember what Jobs said at WWDC -- something along the lines of "it isn't dead yet for our customers, but it is for you." He is simply laying the groundwork for a change that is inevitable, but premature. So I would hazard a guess that it will be at least another year, if not two, before we see machnies that have OS 9 cut off.



    But we may well see that the new machines need to have OS X running in the background sooner than that.
  • Reply 15 of 15
    lucaluca Posts: 3,833member
    [quote]Uhhh...



    1) Press on the Trash with the LEFT (or only) mouse button. "Empty Trash" pops up.



    2) Choose "Empty Trash" from the Finder menu.

    <hr></blockquote>



    *Smacks forehead* duh... should have checked that...



    My other points (might) still be valid though.
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