$2000 Low End Means Something New
Apple has redefined the low end tower up to a $2,000 price point. This pretty clearly leaves a large hole in their lineup. Essentially, anyone that wants a choice in monitor will need to fork out 2K. I believe that this is a forshadowing, almost as heavy handed as something George Lucas would produce, that a Cube / Low End Tower must be in the works.
Now I am going to nab one of those Dual 2Ghz beasts and hope its not too loud and large (it will be replacing a cube.) At 3K, I think that this is actually a very nice deal. But I don't think I could justify one of these for home. And I'm sure many others are in the same boat. Given that Apple has made it _harder_ to head for home with a tower I can't help thinking that they have moved the PowerMac to a workstation class box, making way for something new.
Also, given that this new beast is clearly built to dissipate some serious heat, I think its safe to say that whenever the new tower / cube heads this way it will have either a die shrink G5, or perhaps a variant of IBMs G3 with Altavec. I'd sure prefer the former.
Is this really this obvious, or am I crazy?
Now I am going to nab one of those Dual 2Ghz beasts and hope its not too loud and large (it will be replacing a cube.) At 3K, I think that this is actually a very nice deal. But I don't think I could justify one of these for home. And I'm sure many others are in the same boat. Given that Apple has made it _harder_ to head for home with a tower I can't help thinking that they have moved the PowerMac to a workstation class box, making way for something new.
Also, given that this new beast is clearly built to dissipate some serious heat, I think its safe to say that whenever the new tower / cube heads this way it will have either a die shrink G5, or perhaps a variant of IBMs G3 with Altavec. I'd sure prefer the former.
Is this really this obvious, or am I crazy?
Comments
The low-end G5 is $1799. Knock off the Superdrive.
I think they have it at $1999 right now for two reasons:
1) They can. The G5 is eagerly anticipated, and for good reason. Make 'em pay if you can, smart business.
2) To protect the iMac. iMac sales are important, and a $1599 1.6ghz G5 tower is a lot more attractive than a $1799 1ghz G4 iMac. (Not to mention the G4 1.25ghz w/ 17" you can still buy at the Apple Store for $1999.)
Sorry folks. If you want a low-end tower look at the G4s they are still selling.
Originally posted by SomeGuy
Apple has redefined the low end tower up to a $2,000 price point. This pretty clearly leaves a large hole in their lineup. Essentially, anyone that wants a choice in monitor will need to fork out 2K. I believe that this is a forshadowing, almost as heavy handed as something George Lucas would produce, that a Cube / Low End Tower must be in the works.
Now I am going to nab one of those Dual 2Ghz beasts and hope its not too loud and large (it will be replacing a cube.) At 3K, I think that this is actually a very nice deal. But I don't think I could justify one of these for home. And I'm sure many others are in the same boat. Given that Apple has made it _harder_ to head for home with a tower I can't help thinking that they have moved the PowerMac to a workstation class box, making way for something new.
Also, given that this new beast is clearly built to dissipate some serious heat, I think its safe to say that whenever the new tower / cube heads this way it will have either a die shrink G5, or perhaps a variant of IBMs G3 with Altavec. I'd sure prefer the former.
Is this really this obvious, or am I crazy?
Your probably crazy. If you want something in the middle ground there are plenty of G4 towers that fill out the gap until there are enough IBM chips to go around.
Originally posted by groverat
The low-end G5 is $1799. Knock off the Superdrive.
I think they have it at $1999 right now for two reasons:
1) They can. The G5 is eagerly anticipated, and for good reason. Make 'em pay if you can, smart business.
2) To protect the iMac. iMac sales are important, and a $1599 1.6ghz G5 tower is a lot more attractive than a $1799 1ghz G4 iMac. (Not to mention the G4 1.25ghz w/ 17" you can still buy at the Apple Store for $1999.)
I agree with the first point. But the second I'm not so sure about. I think that the all in one is one type of beast, but the cube / low end tower is another beast. There are people that are fairly particular about monitors. I'm one of them. I'd also pay for more CPU but a smaller form factor. I am a cube owner and like it a good deal. The only negative is that the plugs were placed in a silly place Its been upgraded to a 1Ghz processor with 2Meg of Level 3, so it has definitley been expanded (the graphics card is also now a GForce3.) Tough to do this sort of thing with an iMac. Or course, if they kep on upgrading the Cube I would have just bought another one.
Originally posted by buckeye
Your probably crazy. If you want something in the middle ground there are plenty of G4 towers that fill out the gap until there are enough IBM chips to go around.
I'm thinking long term strategy.
Also, I think that simply looking at this new beast, you have to say "workstation." It does not seem to have been designed with the consumer in mind. It looks like a straight shot at the Pros. Again, I'm getting one, but then I can justify it. It will be at work. I wonder how this will appeal to a consumer (they don't all want iMacs.)
But to keep the Powermacs completely out of iMac range from now on, I dont know. Sure, for now there are G4s available for $1299 but for how long? I wouldnt be surprised if something interesting isnt coming soon for the midrange. A cube or minitower? Alas, probably not.
On the other hand, with the price of 19" LCDs so low now, the iMac might be losing some appeal. Perhaps reliving the time when the 15" CRT iMacs were becoming obsolete.
(ps, no, I don't know better than Steve Jobs, just wondering out loud)
Originally posted by SomeGuy
Apple has redefined the low end tower up to a $2,000 price point. This pretty clearly leaves a large hole in their lineup. Essentially, anyone that wants a choice in monitor will need to fork out 2K. I believe that this is a forshadowing, almost as heavy handed as something George Lucas would produce, that a Cube / Low End Tower must be in the works.
The single-1.25Ghz G4 tower is now $1299.
iMac = consumer
PowerMac G5 = pro
For the pro buyers it makes no difference if it costs 1999 or 1699. The G5 towers aren't aimed at the consumers and gamers (although I'm sure fragging is taken to a whole new level). After all - who needs a dual 2GHz 970 box to run iPhoto, Mail and surf the net for pr0n in Safari? My old G3 does that just fine thankyouverymuch.
Frankly I doubt that there will ever be a headless Cube-factor machine filling the gap between the TOTL iMac and the BOTL G5.
I leave it to Apple to prove me wrong (which I don't mind at all).
Edit: Steve's mission when he took over as iCeo was to reduce the product range after all - not expand it.
But, the 1299 G4 PM is in many ways the "cube" we wanted. At that price it should be a dual.
but again I will remind everyone about the price arguments I had been making.
Apple needs a 1299 entry tower (or headless machine of some kind) I nailed it, only it's a G4. And, IBM's supply of G5's could not be expected to be so high, or their prices so low, that Apple could intro G5 PB's or make a super quick transition to G5 before next year. In essence, the low end has remained a G4, something else I said was likely to happen.
To me it says that there is definitely a middle ground for a "cube" but it will not come untill stocks of G5 increase and prices per chip decrease, AND Apple sells off enough of the PM G4's, which they're still making ATM.
The optimist in me, says they've recognized the need for a lower cost HEADLESS machine and for now they're using what they've got but will make an original product for this segment when G5 prices and supply allow for it.
Though I wouldn't wager an auto fellation on it, iMac G5 will not be seen, IMHO, for well over 12 months. Moto will have much better G4's by then, or Apple will buy something cheaper from IBM.
Originally posted by Matsu
Though I wouldn't wager an auto fellation on it, iMac G5 will not be seen, IMHO, for well over 12 months. Moto will have much better G4's by then, or Apple will buy something cheaper from IBM.
Is it dry in here, or is it just me?
I wouldn't find it out of the question to have G5 iMacs roughly a year from now.
Who knows though, it's way to far away to tell.
I read somewhere that the 1.42 dual was the most popular Power Mac in the line. I don't know if I believe that, because I personally think the dual-1.25 was a better value. But if that's true, it says that when people make the move to the tower line, they tend to shop up for the best performance. Maybe Apple isn't expecting to sell boatloads of the low-end model anyway and it's sort of a loss leader to get people interested in the towers. I still think it's odd that they didn't make the SuperDrive optional and get the base cost down to $1,799. They obviously didn't think the market was THAT price-sensitive.
Like Matsu, I was hoping for a relatively low-priced entry model, to replace my Cube at home. I'm certainly not going to replace it with another G4 tower, even at $1,299. But the other thing to consider is, if the G5 scales the way we're expecting, we may see more frequent revisions and maybe the price of the low-end model will come down toward the $1,500 range fairly soon.
Too bad I'm priced out for purchasing these to replace my current CPUs at both work and home.
I really was expecting much lower prices. These are workstation prices, but marketed as desktops. "The worlds fastest desktop". I was hoping to pick up a couple of Apple workstations for desktop prices.
I guess that is too much to ask.
I think they are still going to fly off the shelves.8)
Obviously, that huge gaping whole in the middle is going to be filled in shortly... the question isn't when but with what.
na
Originally posted by kroehl
Obvious.
iMac = consumer
PowerMac G5 = pro
For the pro buyers it makes no difference if it costs 1999 or 1699. The G5 towers aren't aimed at the consumers and gamers (although I'm sure fragging is taken to a whole new level). After all - who needs a dual 2GHz 970 box to run iPhoto, Mail and surf the net for pr0n in Safari? My old G3 does that just fine thankyouverymuch.
Frankly I doubt that there will ever be a headless Cube-factor machine filling the gap between the TOTL iMac and the BOTL G5.
I leave it to Apple to prove me wrong (which I don't mind at all).
Edit: Steve's mission when he took over as iCeo was to reduce the product range after all - not expand it.
Apple could better address the more of the market, and keep product lines and per unit R&D costs down if they droped the AIO, and had a desktop that used the same chipset and mother board that they do in the tower.
As it is the AIO design of the iMac limits their customers at the bottom end too much, so if they want to address the customer's needs that arnt filled by the FP iMac they need a new design. To gain market share they HAVE to attract new customers, as well as entice past customers to upgrade. I dont see them bieng much more successfull at this without new models at affordable prices that address the needs of:
[list=1][*]Lower cost Education computers[*]Low cost buisness computers[*]low-cost/expandable consumer model (Gamer's/Pro-sumers)[/list=1]
How to address all three of these markets has been discussed at length, but basically brings us back to a low cost desktop CPU without a monitor. It should have an AGP graphics card, and at least 1 PCI slot, and 3 memory slots. Basically a realistically priced Cube with a PCI slot. A daughter card mother board design would be ideal so that they could easily cover a large range of models, from a $699 priced education/buisness Mac to $1999 Gamer's/Pro-sumers model.
Originally posted by nagha
I've stated this elsewhere but apple has a new performance gap to deal with. before it was with PCs and now it's the difference in performance between their high end and low end.
Obviously, that huge gaping whole in the middle is going to be filled in shortly... the question isn't when but with what.
na
This is exactly the way I see it. And I think that these are the factors that point to it.
1 - Entry level price of 2K (yea, remove the SuperDrive and you have 1.8K, but the SuperDrive is going become a base level component soon.)
2 - Industrial Design of the new G5s are not very consumer friendly. They are not "cute" or anything you might put in a dual purpose room. I think they look great, but they are Pro / Geek machines.
3 - The flat pannel iMac is a very distinctive statement. Its not for everyone. Another option would be nice.
4 - Monitor choice is good. Some people don't want the default monitor. My parents think its too small. I've found that as I get a little on in years, I like a little more space between my pixels. Dual monitors is becoming oddly common--much more so than I would have ever thought. There is a demand for this.
5 - The current G4 availability is not any sort of long term thing.
6 - The large form factor (and noise / heat) of the new G5s can be a consumer issue. If I want something better than a G4 without a level 3 cache that does not dominate my desk, I ought to have an option. Hey, one size (Flat Panel iMac) does not fit all.
So given the above points, I think it is just a matter of _when_ we get something else. I think that the only things holding this back are:
1 - Current size of G5 requires a heat dissipating beast! That case is probably not cheap to manufacture.
2 - Availability of G5s (die shrunk) which would enable less expensive cases.
This hole will be filled by something cube like. Does not matter what it looks like, it just needs to fit between (or next to) the iMac, allow choice in monitors, be small and possibly less obtrusive from a design perspective with Firewire 800 with the TOSLink as well. Nuke the PCI slots, allow for upgrading video card. Single processor running cool (but not as cool as in the iMac.)
It will work, I promise!
I dont care if the cube fits in or not.. I just want one..
Me too!
Lemon Bon Bon
Right now you have (the promise of) G5s
G4 towers
G4 iMacs
Where does it say that the G4 towers are going away? Seems entirely possible to me that Apple with have parallel G4 and G5 towers for some period of time, in the same way they had CRT and LCD iMacs.
I wouldn't be shocked to see G4s still selling at the end of the year. These are listed as "OS9 systems" in the Apple Store.
Apple originally said that the OS9 systems would only be available until the end of June, last week they had two configs, now they have three!? I suppose we'll see what happens next week.
My hunch says, wait till just after MWSF '04 (February or early March) for the PowerMacs to go to the .09 process and a few surprises to happen there. Then you'll see some things happen in the consumer arena.
Originally posted by Matsu
Is that the extent of the edu discount? weak.
But, the 1299 G4 PM is in many ways the "cube" we wanted. At that price it should be a dual.
but again I will remind everyone about the price arguments I had been making.
Apple needs a 1299 entry tower (or headless machine of some kind) I nailed it, only it's a G4. And, IBM's supply of G5's could not be expected to be so high, or their prices so low, that Apple could intro G5 PB's or make a super quick transition to G5 before next year. In essence, the low end has remained a G4, something else I said was likely to happen.
To me it says that there is definitely a middle ground for a "cube" but it will not come untill stocks of G5 increase and prices per chip decrease, AND Apple sells off enough of the PM G4's, which they're still making ATM.
The optimist in me, says they've recognized the need for a lower cost HEADLESS machine and for now they're using what they've got but will make an original product for this segment when G5 prices and supply allow for it.
Though I wouldn't wager an auto fellation on it, iMac G5 will not be seen, IMHO, for well over 12 months. Moto will have much better G4's by then, or Apple will buy something cheaper from IBM.
IBM is supposedly selling G5s to Apple for less than Moto is selling G4s. I would think that Apple would be burning the midnight oil to get everything they can converted over to the 970. I do not know about the laptops though. They might not see a G5 until the 980 comes out as it is supposed to consume less power and have less heat to dissipate.