No, thanks, but I'm sure you'll be fine with your Bondi iMac.
OK, I've finished my coffee and I'm feeling much better now. Sorry if I sounded a little over the top. You do have a point and yes more expandability would be nice and always desirable. I think apple is banking on Firewire 800 to fill in this niche (if it ever reaches it's potential that is). They are also toting Fibre Channel for connection to the x-raid for high end users. For better or ill this is what we are going to be stuck with for a while now.
I do remember what expandability is. In addition to my DP867 I still have a PowerTowerPro with a G3 upgrade. It has 6 full PCI slots and 9 drive bays and still has 3 video cards, an serial card, 4 hard drives, 2 optical drives and a zip drive. Now that's explandability! And I remember in 1994 when I bought one of the first Power Mac 8100/80 computers and maxed it out. It cost me $3200 for just two 32 mg ram chips and I had a total of over $11000 invested in that system.
Belive it or not, I still do. Although I usually use my ethernet network, I still use floppy disks to copy small files (Homework essays) between PC and Mac. It is still easier.
These guys aren't complaining! I asked them WHY they wanted another drive in the "enclosure" so they told me.
I think the premise for this thread is excellent. There has been much bickering about the number of removable media drive bays. Yet, very little has been said about exactly how 2nd or even 3rd bays are used. It seems that discussion about 'actual use' should precede the arguments about neccessity...
I too am curious, what are the exact circumstanstances in which second optical drives are used?
While having a second optical drive would have its uses , for myself there would not be a use. I currently do not have 2 installed (not that I could in my DA G4) but I would actually prefer an external. It's easy to install, firewire is fast, and its portable and exchangable. In the long run this is probably a good move on Apple's part since the G5 as it stands now is a bit taller than the G4. It's all about trade-offs.
Superdrives can burn CDs at 16x. It takes about 5 minutes to burn a CD, plus verification.
CD-RW drives can burn CDs at 52x. It takes about a minute and a half to burn a CD, plus verification.
If you burn lots of CDs, it would be nice to have a separate CD-RW drive that can burn CDs more than 3x as fast as the Superdrive. And yes, it would save the extra step involved in copying a CD. And the reason you'd use an internal rather than an external is because the internal provides less clutter and costs less.
Of course, a case for an external drive is going to boost the price of a new drive by ~$80.
I also very much like using two drives to copy CDs. I've been working with two for a long time and am accustomed to high-speed burners.
As for hard drives, is it really unusual for folks to have more than two drives? Hell, out of everyone I know, two is the LEAST they have. Hell, I'm about to buy a 6th (3rd firewire), but then again I'm a pack rat.
I was going to merge threads and leave the resulting thread in General Discussion, but doing so across 2 forums results in one being completely deleted. Members coming back to Current Hardware to continue this discussion would not know the merge took place, and may not see the thread in GD.
The other thread is a more general discussion of expansion, pro user needs, and the like. Let's please keep this thread to the discussion of the top only - why you need a second OPTICAL DRIVE. If you would like to discuss hard drive use, whether or not pros need this or that, please head over to the thread in General Discussion.
and the Apple apologists all pop out of the woodwork.
LOL...with 10x your posts. I think it is YOU that is "popping out the Woodwork"
Quote:
Many (if not most) Artists and Musicians use Macs. We need cost effective, expandable machines. The G5 is great (all hail the G5) but unfortunately doesn't meet my needs as well as the G4 . The missing PCI slots are the biggest problem, but limiting me to one optical drive is adding insult to injury. I'm elated at the G5 for the sake of the platform, but devastated that I'm forced to consider *gag* a wrong way switch
Typical. Leading statements like "doesn't meet my needs as well as the G4" Yet provide no reasons. Thanks
Quote:
Contrary to what some morons believe, I have no complaints about the G5. I say an additional optical drive bay is a good possible future enhancement
And I say it's not. You've been cancelled out
Yes Internal Drives are Cheaper...yes you can copy discs. Yes you are free to complain about the lack of internal bays or dual external. But there are people who prefer that the clutter NOT be inside the computer as well. Pick your poison. There WILL be Clutter whether it's external or internal.
There are people who don't like the "clutter" of an internal CD-RW drive?
I don't use my second cd drive now... so for me I would rather use that space for something else.
Some people have said that it is a pain copying cds from the disk drive rather than just copying from one optical drive to another. Maybe the solution is just to make it easier to copy from your hardrive and and improved superdrive that reads and writes cd's faster, if possible?
I have been a PRO user for 9 years now mainly in digital illustration, Photoshop work and some 3-D. When it came out I bought an Apple Clone PowerTowerPro with 6 PCI slots and 9 drive bays because it was more expandable and yes I had it stuffed with cards, drives and RAM. I have since move up to a MDD and haven't looked back.
But today I don't buy the argument about the need for a second internal optical. External fits the bill and is more versatile and just a little more expensive which is not a problem for PRO users like myself who actually get paid for working on our computers. Only 2 drives? I can see this as bit of an issue but only for the few PROs who need more than 500 gigs. I don't, I'm sure some do. Do Pro Video and Audio people really need more than 500 gigs of space before they could move their work to a "Slower" external drive or server for storage? These issues sound like they are more about convience and not about real problems.
The only real issue I see that will be a problem is having only 3 PCX slots. Yes they put in digital audio and video which eliminates the need for that extra slot for some PRO users but only 3 slots will be an issue for some and there is no way around that.
I think the people with "Apple can do no wrong" blinders on are missing the point. Its not whether or not you personally have a use for extra pci slots, hd bays or optical drives, or whether you think buying an external fw drive is just fine. The point, I think, is that as a "Pro" machine there should be room for options.
With the giant step forward the G5's took in performance, they also took a step or two backwards in expandability, there is no denying that. And no its not like losing a floppy drive, thats entirely different. Perhaps this is just to give Apple something to "improve" upon later.
With the giant step forward the G5's took in performance, they also took a step or two backwards in expandability, there is no denying that. And no its not like losing a floppy drive, thats entirely different. Perhaps this is just to give Apple something to "improve" upon later.
Some people disagree. Some people look at modern Pro systems as links to Network Server and Storage Area Networks. Had Apple foced themselves to design in 4 Drive bays and 2 external Bays AND attempted to keep noise and thermal issues down we wouldn't have the computer as we do today. Even the need for a larger Powersupply would affect the margins of these machines negatively. And for What? Power users who will be using XRaids and SANS for massive storage. Audio/Video is moving external as well thanks to the speed of Firewire and USB. I don't think Apple will be moving to what you want.
The future is small..powerful and yes..externally expandable
If it were a question between speed or more expandability, it would be a tough question. I don't know which I would choose.
Would people pay $2-300 (USD) extra for the same configurations with room for 2 more optical drives and 2-3 more hard drives? Perhaps Apple could engineer that as a BTO option and see how popular it is. Hopefully a small risk with at least some ROI.
if by some chance you were going to keep them around after buying your G5, you could always toss 'em in a closet somewhere, run a firewire cable to them and throw them into permanent target disk mode. instant HD storage.
I can't even believe this discussion is taking place...
Why do I want >1 optical drive bay in a tower? WHY?
1. Specialized drives perform functions faster. The superdrive is really a DVD burner, so use it for burning DVDs. A separate CD-RW drive would read CDs faster and burn CDs faster.
2. Eliminate a step when duping CDs. If I want to dupe a CD, I DON'T want to have to make a disc image, I want to burn it directly. I need two optical drives for this.
3. Cost and Clutter. External drives increase clutter and reduce workspace. They cost more, in some cases MUCH more, than an internal drive. The whole point of buying a TOWER is to have all my sh!t in one place. If I want external drives then why not buy an iMac? Then I can have cables and drives all over my desk.
I don't understand why this is even a question, it seems self-evident that people like towers because they don't have to have so much external STUFF connected to their Mac.
Some say, "But you don't NEED another internal optical drive, you can buy a FW drive, idiot". Well sure nobody NEEDS two optical drive bays; nobody needs built-in Airport either (just use FireWire Airport card), and they don't need more than one (small) HD in the tower to boot from, and they don't really need 8 RAM slots because who would ever use that many slots?
Two optical drive bays is a luxury, just like a tower is. It's something that makes certain tasks easier and faster, but you don't REALLY need them to do the tasks. Perhaps if the Powermac G5s were in a lower price bracket, like $1000-$2000, not so many would complain, but that's not the case.
Whew, having said all this, I should add that it's not incredibly important to me, it's more of a nuisance. I would still buy a G5 tower if I had the money. But if Apple had any competitors, I'd be buying the tower that had greater expandability, all else being equal (functionally).
Comments
OK, I've finished my coffee and I'm feeling much better now. Sorry if I sounded a little over the top. You do have a point and yes more expandability would be nice and always desirable. I think apple is banking on Firewire 800 to fill in this niche (if it ever reaches it's potential that is). They are also toting Fibre Channel for connection to the x-raid for high end users. For better or ill this is what we are going to be stuck with for a while now.
I do remember what expandability is. In addition to my DP867 I still have a PowerTowerPro with a G3 upgrade. It has 6 full PCI slots and 9 drive bays and still has 3 video cards, an serial card, 4 hard drives, 2 optical drives and a zip drive. Now that's explandability! And I remember in 1994 when I bought one of the first Power Mac 8100/80 computers and maxed it out. It cost me $3200 for just two 32 mg ram chips and I had a total of over $11000 invested in that system.
I know.... I don't know bondi.
Originally posted by audiopollution
Who uses floppy drives anyway?
Belive it or not, I still do. Although I usually use my ethernet network, I still use floppy disks to copy small files (Homework essays) between PC and Mac. It is still easier.
Originally posted by iSegway
These guys aren't complaining! I asked them WHY they wanted another drive in the "enclosure" so they told me.
I think the premise for this thread is excellent. There has been much bickering about the number of removable media drive bays. Yet, very little has been said about exactly how 2nd or even 3rd bays are used. It seems that discussion about 'actual use' should precede the arguments about neccessity...
I too am curious, what are the exact circumstanstances in which second optical drives are used?
CD-RW drives can burn CDs at 52x. It takes about a minute and a half to burn a CD, plus verification.
If you burn lots of CDs, it would be nice to have a separate CD-RW drive that can burn CDs more than 3x as fast as the Superdrive. And yes, it would save the extra step involved in copying a CD. And the reason you'd use an internal rather than an external is because the internal provides less clutter and costs less.
I also very much like using two drives to copy CDs. I've been working with two for a long time and am accustomed to high-speed burners.
As for hard drives, is it really unusual for folks to have more than two drives? Hell, out of everyone I know, two is the LEAST they have. Hell, I'm about to buy a 6th (3rd firewire), but then again I'm a pack rat.
What happened to the "tower"
I was going to merge threads and leave the resulting thread in General Discussion, but doing so across 2 forums results in one being completely deleted. Members coming back to Current Hardware to continue this discussion would not know the merge took place, and may not see the thread in GD.
The other thread is a more general discussion of expansion, pro user needs, and the like. Let's please keep this thread to the discussion of the top only - why you need a second OPTICAL DRIVE. If you would like to discuss hard drive use, whether or not pros need this or that, please head over to the thread in General Discussion.
Thanks.
and the Apple apologists all pop out of the woodwork.
LOL...with 10x your posts. I think it is YOU that is "popping out the Woodwork"
Many (if not most) Artists and Musicians use Macs. We need cost effective, expandable machines. The G5 is great (all hail the G5) but unfortunately doesn't meet my needs as well as the G4 . The missing PCI slots are the biggest problem, but limiting me to one optical drive is adding insult to injury. I'm elated at the G5 for the sake of the platform, but devastated that I'm forced to consider *gag* a wrong way switch
Typical. Leading statements like "doesn't meet my needs as well as the G4" Yet provide no reasons. Thanks
Contrary to what some morons believe, I have no complaints about the G5. I say an additional optical drive bay is a good possible future enhancement
And I say it's not. You've been cancelled out
Yes Internal Drives are Cheaper...yes you can copy discs. Yes you are free to complain about the lack of internal bays or dual external. But there are people who prefer that the clutter NOT be inside the computer as well. Pick your poison. There WILL be Clutter whether it's external or internal.
Form over Function need only go so far.
Originally posted by murbot
There are people who don't like the "clutter" of an internal CD-RW drive?
I don't use my second cd drive now... so for me I would rather use that space for something else.
Some people have said that it is a pain copying cds from the disk drive rather than just copying from one optical drive to another. Maybe the solution is just to make it easier to copy from your hardrive and and improved superdrive that reads and writes cd's faster, if possible?
But today I don't buy the argument about the need for a second internal optical. External fits the bill and is more versatile and just a little more expensive which is not a problem for PRO users like myself who actually get paid for working on our computers. Only 2 drives? I can see this as bit of an issue but only for the few PROs who need more than 500 gigs. I don't, I'm sure some do. Do Pro Video and Audio people really need more than 500 gigs of space before they could move their work to a "Slower" external drive or server for storage? These issues sound like they are more about convience and not about real problems.
The only real issue I see that will be a problem is having only 3 PCX slots. Yes they put in digital audio and video which eliminates the need for that extra slot for some PRO users but only 3 slots will be an issue for some and there is no way around that.
With the giant step forward the G5's took in performance, they also took a step or two backwards in expandability, there is no denying that. And no its not like losing a floppy drive, thats entirely different. Perhaps this is just to give Apple something to "improve" upon later.
With the giant step forward the G5's took in performance, they also took a step or two backwards in expandability, there is no denying that. And no its not like losing a floppy drive, thats entirely different. Perhaps this is just to give Apple something to "improve" upon later.
Some people disagree. Some people look at modern Pro systems as links to Network Server and Storage Area Networks. Had Apple foced themselves to design in 4 Drive bays and 2 external Bays AND attempted to keep noise and thermal issues down we wouldn't have the computer as we do today. Even the need for a larger Powersupply would affect the margins of these machines negatively. And for What? Power users who will be using XRaids and SANS for massive storage. Audio/Video is moving external as well thanks to the speed of Firewire and USB. I don't think Apple will be moving to what you want.
The future is small..powerful and yes..externally expandable
Would people pay $2-300 (USD) extra for the same configurations with room for 2 more optical drives and 2-3 more hard drives? Perhaps Apple could engineer that as a BTO option and see how popular it is. Hopefully a small risk with at least some ROI.
I do pro video and now that I got a pro AGP slot I'm happy
Originally posted by hmurchison
The future is small..powerful and yes..externally expandable
... yet somehow bigger than the old machines.
A puzzle, whose answer is: 97 Watts of heat output per.
This machine was designed around the processors, which unfortunately left little room for much else. It's almost as if it were 4" shorter, not taller.
Suppose I'll run off now and start pricing Firewire 800 cases. Where to hide them? Any suggestions?
Well since you can put them up to 100 meters away from the computer..... I'd say you could put them just about anywhere you would want.
if by some chance you were going to keep them around after buying your G5, you could always toss 'em in a closet somewhere, run a firewire cable to them and throw them into permanent target disk mode. instant HD storage.
Originally posted by iSegway
I am curious how much people use multiple drives? Is it really necessary to have a 2nd or 3rd drive bay?
With the capacity and price of hard drives now isn't it a lot easier to just store everything on your hard drive?
I never use my second drive. Do any of you guys? And if so, what for?
Yes it is necessary to have a 2nd drive bay , do not think that it is useless just because you're not using it !
If i want to burn a cd @ more than 16x or 24x i can't on the new G5
I would be glad to install a 2nd drive to be able to burn at 52x and to duplicate CD withe the help of the 2 drives !!!!
Why do I want >1 optical drive bay in a tower? WHY?
1. Specialized drives perform functions faster. The superdrive is really a DVD burner, so use it for burning DVDs. A separate CD-RW drive would read CDs faster and burn CDs faster.
2. Eliminate a step when duping CDs. If I want to dupe a CD, I DON'T want to have to make a disc image, I want to burn it directly. I need two optical drives for this.
3. Cost and Clutter. External drives increase clutter and reduce workspace. They cost more, in some cases MUCH more, than an internal drive. The whole point of buying a TOWER is to have all my sh!t in one place. If I want external drives then why not buy an iMac? Then I can have cables and drives all over my desk.
I don't understand why this is even a question, it seems self-evident that people like towers because they don't have to have so much external STUFF connected to their Mac.
Some say, "But you don't NEED another internal optical drive, you can buy a FW drive, idiot". Well sure nobody NEEDS two optical drive bays; nobody needs built-in Airport either (just use FireWire Airport card), and they don't need more than one (small) HD in the tower to boot from, and they don't really need 8 RAM slots because who would ever use that many slots?
Two optical drive bays is a luxury, just like a tower is. It's something that makes certain tasks easier and faster, but you don't REALLY need them to do the tasks. Perhaps if the Powermac G5s were in a lower price bracket, like $1000-$2000, not so many would complain, but that's not the case.
Whew, having said all this, I should add that it's not incredibly important to me, it's more of a nuisance. I would still buy a G5 tower if I had the money. But if Apple had any competitors, I'd be buying the tower that had greater expandability, all else being equal (functionally).