G5's New multi button mouse and keyboard.
What we know.
No mention of a new keyboard and mouse from Stevie boy but all kinds of drama surrounds this subject, and rightly so. Pictures of the new G5 from Apple seem be strangely missing any type of keyboard or mouse. The few that do, show what must be a placeholder as they simply do not go with the design of the new G5 housing. As plain and ugly as the new cheese grater is, this still would be totally out of character for apple. Remember, Apple went so far as to make a round mouse at one time knowing it was stupid but that it looked neat.
Talk of cordless keyboards and mouse can be put to rest. At least with the fact that the Blue tooth module is a $50 ADD ON at the apple store so it is unlikely unless of course apple decides to throw this in at the last minute making everyone jump for joy.
On the other hand, Panther dev beta handed out at the keynote shows in system prefs a new control panel to configure multi button & scroll wheel mouse functions. This would seem silly unless apple intends to ship one of there own.
Logically thinking off the cuff would put this all in the pot and stir. Now fully mixed we Pour out a concoction that the Apple's G5 will ship with a new keyboard and multi button mouse with scroll wheel that we have not seen yet, but it will not be cordless. Of course this rational thinking could be poppy cock and Stevie boy could surprise us all and become a hero by shipping all G5's with bluetooth, a cordless system and including a coupon for a FREE Panther upgrade to all G5 buyers. This as a thank you for sticking with Apple through it's lack of bringing a competitive desktop to the table that was reasonably priced for the last year and a half.
No mention of a new keyboard and mouse from Stevie boy but all kinds of drama surrounds this subject, and rightly so. Pictures of the new G5 from Apple seem be strangely missing any type of keyboard or mouse. The few that do, show what must be a placeholder as they simply do not go with the design of the new G5 housing. As plain and ugly as the new cheese grater is, this still would be totally out of character for apple. Remember, Apple went so far as to make a round mouse at one time knowing it was stupid but that it looked neat.
Talk of cordless keyboards and mouse can be put to rest. At least with the fact that the Blue tooth module is a $50 ADD ON at the apple store so it is unlikely unless of course apple decides to throw this in at the last minute making everyone jump for joy.
On the other hand, Panther dev beta handed out at the keynote shows in system prefs a new control panel to configure multi button & scroll wheel mouse functions. This would seem silly unless apple intends to ship one of there own.
Logically thinking off the cuff would put this all in the pot and stir. Now fully mixed we Pour out a concoction that the Apple's G5 will ship with a new keyboard and multi button mouse with scroll wheel that we have not seen yet, but it will not be cordless. Of course this rational thinking could be poppy cock and Stevie boy could surprise us all and become a hero by shipping all G5's with bluetooth, a cordless system and including a coupon for a FREE Panther upgrade to all G5 buyers. This as a thank you for sticking with Apple through it's lack of bringing a competitive desktop to the table that was reasonably priced for the last year and a half.
Comments
Originally posted by zoozx27
What we know.
No mention of a new keyboard and mouse from Stevie boy but all kinds of drama surrounds this subject, and rightly so. Pictures of the new G5 from Apple seem be strangely missing any type of keyboard or mouse. The few that do, show what must be a placeholder as they simply do not go with the design of the new G5 housing. As plain and ugly as the new cheese grater is, this still would be totally out of character for apple. Remember, Apple went so far as to make a round mouse at one time knowing it was stupid but that it looked neat.
Talk of cordless keyboards and mouse can be put to rest. At least with the fact that the Blue tooth module is a $50 ADD ON at the apple store so it is unlikely unless of course apple decides to throw this in at the last minute making everyone jump for joy.
On the other hand, Panther dev beta handed out at the keynote shows in system prefs a new control panel to configure multi button & scroll wheel mouse functions. This would seem silly unless apple intends to ship one of there own.
Logically thinking off the cuff would put this all in the pot and stir. Now fully mixed we Pour out a concoction that the Apple's G5 will ship with a new keyboard and multi button mouse with scroll wheel that we have not seen yet, but it will not be cordless. Of course this rational thinking could be poppy cock and Stevie boy could surprise us all and become a hero by shipping all G5's with bluetooth, a cordless system and including a coupon for a FREE Panther upgrade to all G5 buyers. This as a thank you for sticking with Apple through it's lack of bringing a competitive desktop to the table that was reasonably priced for the last year and a half.
Yep
Originally posted by zoozx27
What we know.
No mention of a new keyboard and mouse from Stevie boy but all kinds of drama surrounds this subject, and rightly so.
What drama are you talking about? Your logic is flawed. Alot of iMac publicity shots don't have keyboard in it. Alot of g4 shots dont' have keyboard or mouse in it. There are alot of third party bluetooth mice and keyboards and not supporting them is dumb. What does this mean? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Speculation can go either way.
But let's just set "tradition" or whatever aside here for a moment and get real: hell, there's been SO much deviation from "the past" in the previous 2-3 years - in terms of the OS and hardware and I/O - why does everyone seem to get all sentimental and reverential over the single-button mouse, when nearly every OTHER aspect of the Mac has undergone such radical - and positive - change?
Don't understand that one. And for those who might chime in with "that's what Steve wants", well...Steve is wrong on this one. He's been wrong on several occasions the past 4 years, so let's not act like his "vision" (cool as it is) is above improvement or question.
1. OS X supports the whole "right click" thing. I've become quite fond of the contextual menu over the past year or so. The OS AND the various iApps (not just the digital media ones either) all seem to be swimming in context menu usage.
2. Switchers...people coming from the PC are used to it. They expect it. There are more of them than us, and I've come to believe lately that - especially with X and all - that a 2-button/scroll mouse is a better solution. Less "reaching for the control key" AND surfing is 20x easier when it comes to scrolling through websites or long threads at AI.
3. For those that say "buy a third party solution...there are tons of them...", I'll just say a few things: iPod. Cinema Display. iTunes. Safari. iSight. iChat A/V. Apple wasn't first to market with an mp3 player, flat displays, mp3 software, web browsers, web cams or chat software. But they did each of them better, cooler, easier and smarter than they had been done before. Same with a mouse. I'm quite certain their solution wouldn't suck and would soon join the others in the "wow, how come nobody else thought of doing it that way before..." club.
Do I even need to bring up AirPort, SuperDrive, iMovie, iPhoto, iDVD, iSync, FireWire, Rendezvous, the iMac LCD arm design, the 17" PowerBook's keyboard, etc.? It's obvious to the entire universe: Apple innovates and, in general, does things smarter and better than your typical computer company. Yeah, maybe not always first to the party, but they certainly bring the best gifts and refreshments when they do finally arrive.
Why they couldn't do the same when it comes to a mouse is not even a question.
4. The whole experience of buying a computer...when you buy one (if we can all agree on items 1-3 above) is one of "bring it home, and get going with it...". At least with Macs. Now, a switcher or someone coming from the PC side or an otherwise total Mac newbie is used to a 2-button mouse. I think it's ridiculous to make them - after they shell out $999-$2599 or whatever on a brand new Mac - go out and drop another $20-40 on a decent 2-button/scroll wheel optical mouse.
Most people here use them (judging by all the mosts and pics of your various set-ups I've seen over the years). PC users expect them (always a possible convert!). The OS and Apple-created apps love them. They're useful and promote efficiency and speed.
Why Apple - and possibly many Mac users themselves - somehow seems over the notion of doing this is beyond me. It's not like EVERYTHING ELSE has been turned upside-down since Jobs' return (in a good way). What makes the MOUSE so special and "untouchable"?
"Yes, let's create the world's most advanced, kick-ass OS...we'll totally revamp it and build it right this time, from the ground up. Also, let's create some new, never-before-seen apps that let people really get the most mileage out of their digital gadgets. Hey, while we're at it, let's also actively court and pursue current PC users and target them as potential new Apple customers...'switchers', if you will. Let's do ALL of that, but still make sure we stay with a one-button mouse that no one is asking for or seems too impressed by and that most people replace anyway, either immediately or soon afterwards! It'll be GREAT!"
I guarantee you: if Apple started doing this, within 4 months EVERYONE would be cool with it and forget the old mouse even existed, I'm sure. Just as we've forgotten extensions and ADB and SCSI (ugh!) and modal save dialogs and...
I doubt I could personally go back to single button only.
However members of my family who use the machine get freaked out by the 5 buttons, scroll wheel and charging stations etc! They much prefer the simplicity of Apples option.
I think Apple should stick by it's principles and keep things as they are... For beginner and basic users, the current mouse is the perfect solution.
I mean, if you are a pro or enthusiast, and want a stack more buttons, it is only effectively £20 to buy a 2 button mouse of your choice...
As for wireless and bluetooth as standard. I would love to see how long they lasted in a student/edu/public place! They would be 'half inched' in minutes...
Originally posted by Marcus
However members of my family who use the machine get freaked out by the 5 buttons, scroll wheel and charging stations etc! They much prefer the simplicity of Apples option.
Nowhere did I say anything REMOTELY along the lines of Apple coming up with a "5 button...charging station" mouse.
To me, THOSE mice are higher-end, "pro" offerings. I wouldn't even use those types of devices and I've been doing this for 10 years...those things confuse ME!
How hard can two buttons be? Left one: clicks, right one: brings up a cute little menu pertaining to whatever you've got highlighted or are working on at the moment.
And a scroll wheel? Isn't nearly EVERYONE on the Internet at this point? Who wouldn't prefer keeping their cursor in position and simply rolling a tiny dial to go up or down through a web page or document?
Honestly now...anyone who can't truly get a grip on 2 stupid buttons and a little scroll wheel probably shouldn't be sitting in front of a computer to begin with.
Do you no think it's MORE of a hassle for new Mac users to have to learn to reach up and press the control key if they want that menu? Or to slide over and push and arrow to scroll on a website or Word file? I do. How efficient or smooth is that? Why use two hands to do something when one will do (no jokes please)?
Moreover, here's something key: there are probably very few true, literal "newbies", in the sense of NEVER having touched a computer. It's 2003, and either through friends, family, school, neighbors, the local library, etc. most "newbies" have, at least ONCE, sat at a computer for one reason or another. And I imagine it's safe to assume that 98% or so of those computers were PCs. They probably quickly figured out "oh, this button here makes this little menu pop up...neat! Hmmm, and this little wheel...hey, the page is moving up and down! Cool...I like this!"
So they've got that little bit of background and experience.
Then they end up getting a Mac at some point, and lo and behold..."how in the hell do I make that little square menu come up? There's no button for it here? And I have to keep going over to these arrows to get through this letter too? Shirley, grab your coat...we're going to Best Buy to get a mouse I can get some work done with! Grrrr...not enough that I just spent $1500 and now I have to go buy a !$#%@ new mouse..."
THAT is most likely the true, real-life scenario that goes on. I'd just about wager a vital internal organ on it.
So let's give people some credit. There's a HUGE difference between a simple wired 2-button/scroll wheel optical mouse and one of those wild-ass 6-button trackballs with 3 pinky levers, four media buttons, two side torpedo launchers, etc.
I would never advocate Apple doing ANYTHING like that. THAT'S the stuff people can spend extra money on, for sure.
I think Apple's single button, yeah while simple and cool and traditional, is a bit outmoded...for all the reasons I've laid out in this post and the one before it.
Originally posted by pscates
Nowhere did I say anything REMOTELY along the lines of Apple coming up with a "5 button...charging station" mouse.
To me, THOSE mice are higher-end, "pro" offerings. I wouldn't even use those types of devices and I've been doing this for 10 years...those things confuse ME!
How hard can two buttons be? Left one: clicks, right one: brings up a cute little menu pertaining to whatever you've got highlighted or are working on at the moment.
And a scroll wheel? Isn't nearly EVERYONE on the Internet at this point? Who wouldn't prefer keeping their cursor in position and simply rolling a tiny dial to go up or down through a web page or document?
Honestly now...anyone who can't truly get a grip on 2 stupid buttons and a little scroll wheel probably shouldn't be sitting in front of a computer to begin with.
Do you no think it's MORE of a hassle for new Mac users to have to learn to reach up and press the control key if they want that menu? Or to slide over and push and arrow to scroll on a website or Word file?
Let's give people some credit. There's a HUGE difference between a simple wired 2-button/scroll wheel optical mouse and one of those wild-ass 6-button trackballs with 3 pinky levers, four media buttons, two side torpedo launchers, etc.
My sentiments exactly! If people are too stupid to be able to learn how to use a two button mouse, they probably shouldn't be sitting in front of a computer.
One other note, which is more difficult: learning how to use a two button mouse or learning a new OS?
People make it sound like it's the PCs that have a simple one-button mouse and that the entire world is accustomed to that, and anyone coming to the Mac is going to get freaked out by TWO buttons.
I maintain that it's simply a "two-button world"...and most people will appreciate Apple for going along with it after nearly two decades of not.
I still think more people get irriated by Apple's one-button than would be confused by their two-button.
Originally posted by pscates
Nowhere did I say anything REMOTELY along the lines of Apple coming up with a "5 button...charging station" mouse.
To me, THOSE mice are higher-end, "pro" offerings. I wouldn't even use those types of devices and I've been doing this for 10 years...those things confuse ME!
How hard can two buttons be? Left one: clicks, right one: brings up a cute little menu pertaining to whatever you've got highlighted or are working on at the moment.
And a scroll wheel? Isn't nearly EVERYONE on the Internet at this point? Who wouldn't prefer keeping their cursor in position and simply rolling a tiny dial to go up or down through a web page or document?
Honestly now...anyone who can't truly get a grip on 2 stupid buttons and a little scroll wheel probably shouldn't be sitting in front of a computer to begin with.
Do you no think it's MORE of a hassle for new Mac users to have to learn to reach up and press the control key if they want that menu? Or to slide over and push and arrow to scroll on a website or Word file? I do. How efficient or smooth is that? Why use two hands to do something when one will do (no jokes please)?
Moreover, here's something key: there are probably very few true, literal "newbies", in the sense of NEVER having touched a computer. It's 2003, and either through friends, family, school, neighbors, the local library, etc. most "newbies" have, at least ONCE, sat at a computer for one reason or another. And I imagine it's safe to assume that 98% or so of those computers were PCs. They probably quickly figured out "oh, this button here makes this little menu pop up...neat! Hmmm, and this little wheel...hey, the page is moving up and down! Cool...I like this!"
So they've got that little bit of background and experience.
Then they end up getting a Mac at some point, and lo and behold..."how in the hell do I make that little square menu come up? There's no button for it here? And I have to keep going over to these arrows to get through this letter too? Shirley, grab your coat...we're going to Best Buy to get a mouse I can get some work done with! Grrrr...not enough that I just spent $1500 and now I have to go buy a !$#%@ new mouse..."
THAT is most likely the true, real-life scenario that goes on. I'd just about wager a vital internal organ on it.
So let's give people some credit. There's a HUGE difference between a simple wired 2-button/scroll wheel optical mouse and one of those wild-ass 6-button trackballs with 3 pinky levers, four media buttons, two side torpedo launchers, etc.
I would never advocate Apple doing ANYTHING like that. THAT'S the stuff people can spend extra money on, for sure.
I think Apple's single button, yeah while simple and cool and traditional, is a bit outmoded...for all the reasons I've laid out in this post and the one before it.
I must confess that your argument is compelling, especially in terms of attracting new users who have switched for other platforms...
You have just about convinced me! APPLE MAKE A 2 BUTTON MOUSE!
Personally, I'm still planning on using the MX700 with my new G5 when it arrives, family complaints or no family complaints... the mouse is just too good!
People could certainly still buy third-party mice of their choosing. It's just that, out of the box, Apple's model is useful and mimics the function of the 97% mouse design base. Anyone wanting to upgrade or get something with a little more "oomph" or customization or programability can turn to the usual companies (Logitech, Kensington, etc.).
They're not going anywhere.
my mother and grandma/grandpa are perpetually confused by the "left click" "right click" idea. they have no idea why they're different.
however, people ordering at the apple store should be able to add, for $19 a nice apple two button mouse w/scroll wheel.
*signs post with blood*
(yeah, really going out on a limb)
but I must reiterate the NEED to keep the 1 button mouse STANDARD on mac OS... THERE SHOULD NEVER BE A SITUATION where someone with a 2 button mouse can access something that a 1 button mouse couldn't access with some menu (control-click does not count)...
an intuitive UI is so much easier to create if you create your app with only 1 button in mind...
best mouse ive ever used & ive used a lot of them
the mx700 is used on my win2k/powerbook/openbsd/solaris
qnx & linux machines & its worked flawlessly
worth every penny imho...
either apple should jump on the bandwagon or contract
logitech to do their mice...its the one thing logitechs
really good at
Originally posted by madmax559
get a logitech mx 700
best mouse ive ever used & ive used a lot of them
the mx700 is used on my win2k/powerbook/openbsd/solaris
qnx & linux machines & its worked flawlessly
worth every penny imho...
either apple should jump on the bandwagon or contract
logitech to do their mice...its the one thing logitechs
really good at
Yep, since I bought it, I now won't use anything other than a MX700... peerless.
1. Not one person that ever learned how to use a 2 button mouse properly ever wanted their 1 button mouse back.
2. If you can't figure out how to use a 2 button mouse your dumber than dirt or haven't applied 5 minutes to the process and will probably hurt yourself at some point using a computer.
3. Apple should include a 2 button scroll wheel mouse with all G5 towers.