Will Panther's MAIL Finally Beat Microsoft's ENTOURAGE?

Posted:
in macOS edited January 2014
I really enjoy the full features of Entourage right now, and still think that it has the current iteration of Apple's Mail program beat. The accumulation of features over time has given Entourage cool things like a "define" option when you command-click on a word and a little navigable dictionary window pops up with a definition in it. You can even copy/paste the definition into an email message.



The scripting of actions to execute when you receive email is really nice too, although I'd like to be able to apply custom sounds to play when I receive email from various senders.



Entourage has a built-in calendar/schedule feature, which for some reason I rarely ever use. The advantage of iCal is that you can publish your schedule to the web and trade schedules with other people. The big difference between iCal and Entourage's calendar is that the latter is part of the email program. No clearly defined advantage/disadvantage with that...but it would be nice to be able to have Apple's Mail program "reach into" iCal's data. And it would be nice to have an ever-present iCal drop-down interface available in the top right of the taskbar.



I think that I've read that iCal doesn't work with the current dev release of Panther, but I'm wondering if there's anyone who has installed Panther and has used Entourage at any point in the past who could give us a thorough evaluation of the new & improved dev release of Mail.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 68
    nu64mannu64man Posts: 3member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by drewprops

    I really enjoy the full features of Entourage right now, and still think that it has the current iteration of Apple's Mail program beat. The accumulation of features over time has given Entourage cool things like a "define" option when you command-click on a word and a little navigable dictionary window pops up with a definition in it. You can even copy/paste the definition into an email message.



    The scripting of actions to execute when you receive email is really nice too, although I'd like to be able to apply custom sounds to play when I receive email from various senders.



    Entourage has a built-in calendar/schedule feature, which for some reason I rarely ever use. The advantage of iCal is that you can publish your schedule to the web and trade schedules with other people. The big difference between iCal and Entourage's calendar is that the latter is part of the email program. No clearly defined advantage/disadvantage with that...but it would be nice to be able to have Apple's Mail program "reach into" iCal's data. And it would be nice to have an ever-present iCal drop-down interface available in the top right of the taskbar.



    I think that I've read that iCal doesn't work with the current dev release of Panther, but I'm wondering if there's anyone who has installed Panther and has used Entourage at any point in the past who could give us a thorough evaluation of the new & improved dev release of Mail.




    Not until Mail/iCal/Address Book are as seamless as Entourage.
  • Reply 2 of 68
    drewpropsdrewprops Posts: 2,321member
    That's something I'll be watching with keen interest.
  • Reply 3 of 68
    kcmackcmac Posts: 1,051member
    AddressBook and Mail are already seamless. Publishing iCal calendars works great for me and now I find myself using the calendar on my computer. It also works great with iSync.



    Entourage supposedly will be Exchange server compatible sometime this summer. Don't know if Mail will get there or not. Currently, I use Safari and use MS Web Outlook Express to get my mail from the server. This beats using Outlook but I can't use my AddressBook this way.



    I am interested in seeing the new Mail in Panther. Threading will be nice and better rendering will also be great. I still prefer Mail to Entourage because of it's simplicity and the fact that I don't need a lot of bells and whistles. If you do, Entourage is loaded with them.
  • Reply 4 of 68
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    Panther's Mail program seems to have most of the fixes I need.



    As a former Entourage user, I switched to Mail in Jaguar but had a few peeves (which I listed in a previous AI thread maybe Apple saw it...)



    1. Performance is bit on the slow side.

    2. Attachment were somewhere in the message, not separate from it.

    3. You couldn't track a conversation, finding replies and previous messages on the same subject.

    4. I kept having to copy and paste my sig, since Mail defaults to putting the sig at the bottom of the message window, rather than where the cursor is.



    Panther apparently fixes everthing except #4. Since I never really used Entourage's Address Book or Calendar features (Filemaker and Palm Desktop were my apps of choice then) I think Mail is at the point where Entourage could be abandoned and almost no one would care.



    That leaves Word and Excel as the only MS apps needed on the Mac. Redmond should be concerned, very concerned.
  • Reply 5 of 68
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    If you have a preference for how you?d like your signature to appear ? above or below quoted text ? Mail now can make it so.





    Oops! Problem #4 has been fixed. Panther Mail is now perfection!
  • Reply 6 of 68
    ghost_user_nameghost_user_name Posts: 22,667member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Frank777

    4. I kept having to copy and paste my sig, since Mail defaults to putting the sig at the bottom of the message window, rather than where the cursor is.



    A little off-topic, but why has this bothered you? Where else does a signature belong but the bottom of the message?
  • Reply 7 of 68
    kcmackcmac Posts: 1,051member
    I think what he is referring to is when you reply to an email.



    Your reply is at the top and your sig would be at the bottom. Personally, I don't add my sig on a reply, only use it when I start the email.



    It would be nice if you had the option to reply and have your reply and your sig be at the top of the reply. Has this been fixed?
  • Reply 8 of 68
    zozo Posts: 3,117member
    Mail has its quirks:

    1) Some HTML mail doesnt render well or at all

    2) Many times a picture will be super small in the email that someone sent, while others will be full size (never understood that)

    3) No Hotmail mail (the httpd plugin is a good first step, but still not perfect)

    4) (In entourage) I love that when you reply to a mail, the person you send to is automatically added to your address book. Not so in Mail



    Nonetheless, I use Mail for my POP mail and .Mac mail and Entourage for all my Hotmail and my "address book"



    I damn well hope next version of Entourage will be using Address Book.. that would be the greatest thing.
  • Reply 9 of 68
    gee4orcegee4orce Posts: 165member
    iChat integration is very cool too. You receive a message from someone, but instead of replying you can see that they are on iChat right now, so you can send then an instant message - and now even start an audio or video conference. So cool !
  • Reply 10 of 68
    ajblackajblack Posts: 2member
    I would actually love to see a native port of the Ximian Evolution package to OS X. It is a great mail application, that rivals Outlook / Entourage with regards to all facets of a complete Mail / Contacts / Calander / Organiser application.



    See http://www.ximian.com/



    If anyone knows about a "ported" OS X version of evolution ... let us know!!
  • Reply 11 of 68
    arnelarnel Posts: 103member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by drewprops

    ...The accumulation of features over time has given Entourage cool things like a "define" option when you command-click on a word and a little navigable dictionary window pops up with a definition in it. You can even copy/paste the definition into an email message...





    I know it was only an example, but you can get this functionality set up system-wide in OS X.



    Go to http://www.omnigroup.com/ and look for a little program called OmniDictionary. It will look up words for you from dictionary servers on the internet (you have to be online for it to work) and it can be installed as a Service, so it can be used from any app where you can select a bit of text.



    Neil.

    a.k.a. Arnel
  • Reply 12 of 68
    keyboardf12keyboardf12 Posts: 1,379member
    a friend of mine says that the only reason he uses entouge over mail.app is that entourage allows him to set up categories?



    but mail.app does not. so he can't sort by "friends" or "internal company" with a click of the mouse but entourage does this.



    anyone know if this is going to be added in mail.app 2.0?
  • Reply 13 of 68
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Brad

    A little off-topic, but why has this bothered you? Where else does a signature belong but the bottom of the message?



    This was also my biggest annoyance with mail, I emailed Apple about it a few times. The problem is when you reply. I run my business thru the net and reply to client emails that were replies to mine. I want to put my sig after each message containing my url, etc. mail would drop it at the very bottom, not where your cursor was. So, when you have an ongoing correspondence with 5+ reposes from you as well as the other party, that's a long way to scroll and copy and paste.



    Now in X, you have an option to 'put sig above quoted text'. Very sweet. That and the new sounds makes mail better then ever.
  • Reply 14 of 68
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    As kcmac and KidRed replied, yes the issue comes up when replying to a message and Mail insists on putting the sig at the bottom of the quote.



    It's been fixed in Panther. Amen to that.



    With regards to 'categories' of contacts, that seems like something to be set up in Address Book, not Mail.



    Also, I think in Entourage when you reply to a sender the program 'remembers' the address and will auto-complete it if you begin typing it. However I don't think senders are 'automaically' added to the the address book.
  • Reply 15 of 68
    aquaticaquatic Posts: 5,602member
    Yes Categories in Entourage are awesome. However: Address Book even in Jaguar has Categories. So I am guessing Apple will integrate them into Mail.app in Panther if they haven't already.
  • Reply 16 of 68
    mmmpiemmmpie Posts: 628member
    Ive never used entourage, but I used outlook a lot ( because we used exchange server at work ). Categories in outlook are handy, but its searching is so clumsy as to make them useless. The same with its support for threading.



    In the end I used an incoming rule, and had a folder for firends, work etc. The rules put a copy of the email into the folder. Its very handy for looking for specific stuff.

    It should really be done with smart folders ( was so cool in BeOS ).



    Does anyone here use the threading in Jaguar email?

    I just found it yesterday. But I cant find anyway to read the next message in the thread, or only show messages in the thread. Its much better than the threading in outlook ( and what the threading in panther looks like - same as outlook ? ).
  • Reply 17 of 68
    ghost_user_nameghost_user_name Posts: 22,667member
    They're two totally different pieces of software, if you ask me. Mail is simply a mail client... entourage is a wholly integrated personal information manager. I cannot even compare the two, really.
  • Reply 18 of 68
    aquaticaquatic Posts: 5,602member
    That's the point. Apple divides tasks into separate apps, M$ puts all the cludge in one app.
  • Reply 19 of 68
    Quote:

    Originally posted by LoCash

    They're two totally different pieces of software, if you ask me. Mail is simply a mail client... entourage is a wholly integrated personal information manager. I cannot even compare the two, really.



    Hmm.. i would actually say that the Mail/AB/iCal combo is basically exactly the same as Enourage, just in different apps. And seeing as address book and mail are tightly integrated, it only leaves iCal out. _and_ seeing as you have to click on a calendar button in Entourage to access your calender vs. clicking ical in the dock, i'd say they have almost the same level of 'integration'. (im trying to get across the point that even though Entourage has a calender, it's still one click away from your mail, as is ical if it's in the dock.)



    It's just that Entourage is a little more powerful in a way. Though in my opinion, the simplicity of Mail, and having all seven email accounts listed in one inbox is a godsend. I don't even realise/care half the time where the mail is coming from, i just read it. VS Entourage, where you have to click through 7 different inboxes (assuming IMAP) to read all your new mail. If i have six new mails, from 4 different accounts, IMAP and POP, they're all just there, arranged chronologically.



    Saying that, mail has a number of annoying quirks, but what program doesn't?
  • Reply 20 of 68
    thebimbothebimbo Posts: 29member
    Check the options in Entourage for 'Accounts' - you can have the accounts appear like in Mail.app if u want!



    >> having all seven email accounts listed in one inbox is a godsend
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