on the contrary, if a 2 button mouse became standard, more apps would REQUIRE the use of it...
I like how you state that as a fact. Maybe, but I've never come across a Windows app that has required me to use two buttons. Everything that the second button gives me, I can find elsewhere in other menus.
Apparantly svin hasn't had a problem using a single button on a PC either.
Not according to the Open Group. And we're talking about the GUI here not the back end.
The Open Group never states that Mac OS X isn't UNIX. Regardless, this is another topic all together.
A poll done by Architosh of professional users discovered there are about 7 things which they wanted Apple to beging doing. Apple has completed doing about 4 of them and the last one on the list that was wanted by these professionals was a multi button mouse. At the very least, Apple should ship multi button mice with the Power Macs.
why the hell does apple have to do it? people's needs are probably better served by a mouse that they research on their own anyway... why does apple have to do it?
why the hell does apple have to do it? people's needs are probably better served by a mouse that they research on their own anyway... why does apple have to do it?
Because this deals with more than that, it deals with their image. I have MANY pc user friends who complain about Apple's one button mouse, and use it as a factor to not switching. Then I show them I have a multi button and they are like "oh, that is stupid then, why doesn't Apple just make them with more than one button?!??" Part of it is the whole endorsement. I am sure there are people annoyed by this. I know that when I buy a G5, it would be NICE to have a multi button. And then of course the fact that I would like it in their LAPTOPS because it is something we cannot change! I can deal with their desktops not having multiple buttons because I can fix it, but their laptops are a totally different issue. Not to mention the fact that Apple could do it well... Anyways, that is what I think.
Damn, I am so sick of Apple's one-button mouse fixation. It's a giant mystery to me, why Apple would ship such a silly mouse, a "Mickey Mouse".
1. Why should those of us who want a 2 button mouse have to throw out the Mickey Mouse Apple ships with their Macs and spend another $30? To those who think we should, I say, if you think that's such a trivial thing to do, then Apple should make a two button mouse standard and then YOU can throw it out when you buy a new Mac, and go buy a one-button mouse. That would make far more sense, since I can guarantee you that far fewer Mac users would throw out a two button mouse than a one button "Mickey Mouse".
2. Don't like a two button mouse? Use one button. Seriously, Apple could include a preference in the Mouse sys pref panel that bridges the two buttons into a single button (and simultaneously disables the scroll wheel). All the Mickey Mouse fans would be happy, and all those who prefer two buttons + Scroll wheel would be stoked.
3. No doubt there are some idiots out there who can't figger out how to use a two button mouse. I also know of more than a few morons who can't figure out how to use the toolbar at the top of Finder windows. So Apple should ditch the toolbar, since not everybody can figger it out. Oh, and using hierarchical menus on the dock is confusing to a few "users" who's computers I set up for them. So Apple should ditch hierarchical menus in the dock. What's that? Oh, you say make it a preference? Is that what I heard you say? See point #2.
4. Some have raised the very reasonable and valid criticism that in Windows apps, some developers have hidden certain options in the right-click menu, forcing use of the right click. Well, this is bad design, no doubt about it. Blame lies with the lunkheaded developer(s) who designed the interface, and a one-button mouse on the Mac prevents these idiots from making lazy interface design decisions. This is about the only advantage I can think of for a single button mouse design. Perhaps a solution would be to make both types of mice an option on new Macs, thereby forcing developers to design for the Mickey Mouse even if only 5% of buyers opt for it. Or, Apple could stick the eMac with a Mickey Mouse, and give the rest of the desktops a real mouse. I suppose Apple could create a HIG ruling that the right-click should not perform any actions that cannot be accessed by some other means, but since not even Apple follows the HIG, this probably wouldn't work.
One thing is certain: the current Apple "Mickey Mouse" is intolerable. For every person I know who's bought a Mac (admittedly not very many people), the very first thing they've done after setting up their new computer is to chuck the Mickey Mouse in some dusty old drawer and plug in a REAL mouse. This goes for pro and casual users alike. It's time for Apple to change.
LOL, I can just see Steve introducing a two-button mouse (it's a bad-RDF day for him) :
"See, it has two buttons!."
silence
"With a one button mouse, the user must use "control" as a modifier key to bring down contextual menus. Now with the new iClick mouse, you can just click the RIGHT button! It only takes one hand! This thing is so amazing!"
silence
"One more thing....it has a SCROLL WHEEL! See, you can rotate and it scrolls the document in the active window. It's an awesome little feature. And we thought, hey, why not make the scroll wheel a button--so this is actually a THREE BUTTON MOUSE!" It's totally amazing!
silence
"Now I can just go into the "mouse preferences" and map-out certain modifier keys to each button, including the THIRD BUTTON. It's just awesome, and we know you'll like it"
silenceA puck mouse flys from the audience and ricochets off Steve's right temple.
So here I am sat with my one button mouse................and my Griffin Powermate for more intelligent scrolling. The scroll wheel on the mouse is ergonomically dodgy which is why the Powermate is the boy for me. Does this make me a Pro-Am user? Do I get to play golf with D list celebrities?
BTW I am interested in the increasing tension in this thread. Apple did their tests years ago and found people naturally gravitated to a one button format i.e. they watched to the consumer and designed accordingly.
I wanted a scroll thingy so I bought the Powermate. Following my trail of logic here?.................
Damn, I am so sick of Apple's one-button mouse fixation. It's a giant mystery to me, why Apple would ship such a silly mouse, a "Mickey Mouse".
Here's why:
Because apple (as a contrast to the general pc market) has always been interested in offering the simplest and most effective solutions. If theres no provable benefit from adding an extra feature, its better to leave it out.
The pc market is different: If you can make people think they need a feature, you can make more money. Thats why the pc world is filled with weird stuff that is fun to play with, but doesn't help you get your work done. Think 5 button wireless handshaped mice, wireless batterydriven keyboards with tons of extra buttons. Or think overloaded Dell laptops with multiple internal cd drives and insane high screen resolutions. It adds to the feature list, therefore you can earn more money!
The multibutton mouse thing:
As I pointed out earlier the second mouse button doesn't really add improved functionality to any program (maybe for games, but then a joystick does too). Everything that is in the contextual menus can be done with fewer mouseclicks in another way. So why teach people to do it the more complicated way when theres a simple way to do it? The contextual menus serves as a kind of instant help menu, that you would only need the first few times you use a program. I have yet to see one professional photoshopper, who benefits from the second mouse button. Even proffesional pc CAD apps like AutoCad, doesn't really benefit from the second mouse button.
The scroll wheel is on the other hand a really smart invention, which really adds new functionlality and efficiency to almost every program. This is why I think apple will adapt that feature in the next mouse. Maybe by using the ipod scroll wheel technology (just in a linear way instead of circular) they could design a really simple one button + scroll mouse.
Well I'm just trying to figure out the argument for apple sticking with the one button mouse for so long. Personally Im not sure if right or wrong, but using both mac and windows proffessionally I dont feel the need for any extra buttons.
"Any idiot can make things complicated. It takes a genius to make them simple"
Ok, I thought I'd chime in on this subject. For my birthday back in may my ( PC ) friend bought me a kensington wireless, multi button mouse. I have to say even going back to the two button mouse we have at work seems primative ( no scroll wheel ). I love it except for two things I wish there was a way to assign specific functions for the side buttons like back and forth for a web browser. It's programability is kind of limited. The other thing is I wish it was made by Apple. Otherwise I don't see my self going back. It's way too conveinient. If I want to save a JPG to my desktop all I do is click the right button and find save to disk on the pop up menu. In a game it's really better when in SOF2 you want to activate the second weapon or throw a knife. It's a lot better than trying to press a button on the keyboard while playing. I can't see any real functional reason for Apple not to move to this. It's what the customers want.
Comments
Originally posted by Paul
on the contrary, if a 2 button mouse became standard, more apps would REQUIRE the use of it...
I like how you state that as a fact. Maybe, but I've never come across a Windows app that has required me to use two buttons. Everything that the second button gives me, I can find elsewhere in other menus.
Apparantly svin hasn't had a problem using a single button on a PC either.
Regards,
Originally posted by X X
Macintosh is UNIX, chief.
Not according to the Open Group. And we're talking about the GUI here not the back end.
Originally posted by Outsider
Not according to the Open Group. And we're talking about the GUI here not the back end.
The Open Group never states that Mac OS X isn't UNIX. Regardless, this is another topic all together.
A poll done by Architosh of professional users discovered there are about 7 things which they wanted Apple to beging doing. Apple has completed doing about 4 of them and the last one on the list that was wanted by these professionals was a multi button mouse. At the very least, Apple should ship multi button mice with the Power Macs.
Regards,
Originally posted by Paul
why the hell does apple have to do it? people's needs are probably better served by a mouse that they research on their own anyway... why does apple have to do it?
Because this deals with more than that, it deals with their image. I have MANY pc user friends who complain about Apple's one button mouse, and use it as a factor to not switching. Then I show them I have a multi button and they are like "oh, that is stupid then, why doesn't Apple just make them with more than one button?!??" Part of it is the whole endorsement. I am sure there are people annoyed by this. I know that when I buy a G5, it would be NICE to have a multi button. And then of course the fact that I would like it in their LAPTOPS because it is something we cannot change! I can deal with their desktops not having multiple buttons because I can fix it, but their laptops are a totally different issue. Not to mention the fact that Apple could do it well... Anyways, that is what I think.
As amorph said the scroll wheel is painful to use for hours.
I am happy with the current one button mouse.
1. Why should those of us who want a 2 button mouse have to throw out the Mickey Mouse Apple ships with their Macs and spend another $30? To those who think we should, I say, if you think that's such a trivial thing to do, then Apple should make a two button mouse standard and then YOU can throw it out when you buy a new Mac, and go buy a one-button mouse. That would make far more sense, since I can guarantee you that far fewer Mac users would throw out a two button mouse than a one button "Mickey Mouse".
2. Don't like a two button mouse? Use one button. Seriously, Apple could include a preference in the Mouse sys pref panel that bridges the two buttons into a single button (and simultaneously disables the scroll wheel). All the Mickey Mouse fans would be happy, and all those who prefer two buttons + Scroll wheel would be stoked.
3. No doubt there are some idiots out there who can't figger out how to use a two button mouse. I also know of more than a few morons who can't figure out how to use the toolbar at the top of Finder windows. So Apple should ditch the toolbar, since not everybody can figger it out. Oh, and using hierarchical menus on the dock is confusing to a few "users" who's computers I set up for them. So Apple should ditch hierarchical menus in the dock. What's that? Oh, you say make it a preference? Is that what I heard you say? See point #2.
4. Some have raised the very reasonable and valid criticism that in Windows apps, some developers have hidden certain options in the right-click menu, forcing use of the right click. Well, this is bad design, no doubt about it. Blame lies with the lunkheaded developer(s) who designed the interface, and a one-button mouse on the Mac prevents these idiots from making lazy interface design decisions. This is about the only advantage I can think of for a single button mouse design. Perhaps a solution would be to make both types of mice an option on new Macs, thereby forcing developers to design for the Mickey Mouse even if only 5% of buyers opt for it. Or, Apple could stick the eMac with a Mickey Mouse, and give the rest of the desktops a real mouse. I suppose Apple could create a HIG ruling that the right-click should not perform any actions that cannot be accessed by some other means, but since not even Apple follows the HIG, this probably wouldn't work.
One thing is certain: the current Apple "Mickey Mouse" is intolerable. For every person I know who's bought a Mac (admittedly not very many people), the very first thing they've done after setting up their new computer is to chuck the Mickey Mouse in some dusty old drawer and plug in a REAL mouse. This goes for pro and casual users alike. It's time for Apple to change.
LOL, I can just see Steve introducing a two-button mouse (it's a bad-RDF day for him) :
"See, it has two buttons!."
silence
"With a one button mouse, the user must use "control" as a modifier key to bring down contextual menus. Now with the new iClick mouse, you can just click the RIGHT button! It only takes one hand! This thing is so amazing!"
silence
"One more thing....it has a SCROLL WHEEL! See, you can rotate and it scrolls the document in the active window. It's an awesome little feature. And we thought, hey, why not make the scroll wheel a button--so this is actually a THREE BUTTON MOUSE!" It's totally amazing!
silence
"Now I can just go into the "mouse preferences" and map-out certain modifier keys to each button, including the THIRD BUTTON. It's just awesome, and we know you'll like it"
silence A puck mouse flys from the audience and ricochets off Steve's right temple.
BTW I am interested in the increasing tension in this thread. Apple did their tests years ago and found people naturally gravitated to a one button format i.e. they watched to the consumer and designed accordingly.
I wanted a scroll thingy so I bought the Powermate. Following my trail of logic here?.................
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
Damn, I am so sick of Apple's one-button mouse fixation. It's a giant mystery to me, why Apple would ship such a silly mouse, a "Mickey Mouse".
Here's why:
Because apple (as a contrast to the general pc market) has always been interested in offering the simplest and most effective solutions. If theres no provable benefit from adding an extra feature, its better to leave it out.
The pc market is different: If you can make people think they need a feature, you can make more money. Thats why the pc world is filled with weird stuff that is fun to play with, but doesn't help you get your work done. Think 5 button wireless handshaped mice, wireless batterydriven keyboards with tons of extra buttons. Or think overloaded Dell laptops with multiple internal cd drives and insane high screen resolutions. It adds to the feature list, therefore you can earn more money!
The multibutton mouse thing:
As I pointed out earlier the second mouse button doesn't really add improved functionality to any program (maybe for games, but then a joystick does too). Everything that is in the contextual menus can be done with fewer mouseclicks in another way. So why teach people to do it the more complicated way when theres a simple way to do it? The contextual menus serves as a kind of instant help menu, that you would only need the first few times you use a program. I have yet to see one professional photoshopper, who benefits from the second mouse button. Even proffesional pc CAD apps like AutoCad, doesn't really benefit from the second mouse button.
The scroll wheel is on the other hand a really smart invention, which really adds new functionlality and efficiency to almost every program. This is why I think apple will adapt that feature in the next mouse. Maybe by using the ipod scroll wheel technology (just in a linear way instead of circular) they could design a really simple one button + scroll mouse.
Well I'm just trying to figure out the argument for apple sticking with the one button mouse for so long. Personally Im not sure if right or wrong, but using both mac and windows proffessionally I dont feel the need for any extra buttons.
"Any idiot can make things complicated. It takes a genius to make them simple"
-Albert Einstein
ap
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