What is it with Mhz or what Intel does. Mhz is only part of the equation for a fast computer. Get over it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sure, MHz is only part of the equation. But when the Pentium is at 3 GHz and the G4 is at 1 GHz, the Intel is faster because of brute MHz. That's reality. You can bask in some self-powered RDF all you like, but MHz DO matter, and right now Apple is getting their a$$ kicked because of MHz.
The Power4 is a pipe dream, it will never happen for Apple, ever. Call it lack f trying or whatever you like, but IBM is behind Motorola in desktop CPU performance, so it would be a bad choice for Apple to go with IBM. The G3 sucks compared to the G4, anyone can see that. Apple needs something faster than the G4, and something that uses Altivec, and the only place they can get something like that is from Moto.
Of course the most important thing is clock speed. I think it is quite possible and even plausible to engineer a chip that <a href="http://www.tecchannel.de/hardware/937/0.html"; target="_blank">whups</a> a P4 running at a much higher clock. Since no one has yet produced a truly credible source for benchmarking (or proving the current development status of) a G5 it's rather silly to make claims whether or not a 2 Ghz G5 will beat a 3 GHz P4 or vice versa.
I thought this article was quite interesting regarding the AMD clawhammer/opteron (no, it's not claiming it will be used in the Mac, don't be misled by the title): <a href="http://www.overclockers.com/tips011/"; target="_blank">Hammer: the next PowerPC</a>
<strong>The Power4 is a pipe dream, it will never happen for Apple, ever. Call it lack f trying or whatever you like, but IBM is behind Motorola in desktop CPU performance, so it would be a bad choice for Apple to go with IBM. The G3 sucks compared to the G4, anyone can see that. Apple needs something faster than the G4, and something that uses Altivec, and the only place they can get something like that is from Moto.
Game over.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You'll find you are mistaken... about a great many things.
Another interesting thing, if AMD is able to run the hammer on 12 stages (current G4 has 7 stages, Power4 17) on .13 above 2 Ghz it seems like a chip can be made to scale decently without going to a P4 model. It doesn't seem that Apple would have to give up all of the PowerPCs "wide" advantages to get a significant clock boost.
Edit: darn typos! Though I have to admit that a "cloak boost" sounds a lot more interesting than a "clock boost"
Okay. It's obvious now that a POWER4 is unlikely in a Mac anytime soon. What about the reports of IBM manufacturing the next chip and the reports of Apple buying-out the PPC assets? Is there a connection? Could we see an Apple-designed chip manufactured by IBM?
I think that the Big Huge Incredible, Mind-Blowing, Earth-Shattering, and most definitely Shocking, news will be the introduction of the 2-button mouse <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
Just look at the shock factor; even the naysayers will be Stunned to some degree! Well, that's if they don't release anything else, like up to 1.2ghz DP G4s, which is what I think is most likely. I haven't noticed (haven't read 2% of all the rumors/information anyway) that much expectancy of 1ghz powerbooks, so that could seem Big to some. The Biggest possible thing I can imagine all this hubbub may portend, is a new "digital lifestyle device". Something new, not simply revamped or slightly enhanced.
I think Moki is just playing with your mind. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Normally, I would believe you. But after MWSF I learned that Moki dances around what he can say without violating his NDA. So his vague comments always make me wonder.
Some details about new PowerPC G5 were said by Motorola in its turn: its PowerPC 8500 features 10-step conveyor, new structure of internal processor bus, altered and modified NPU and FPU. Besides, processor will appear in 32-and 64-bit variants on Motorola's new HiP7 process (0,13 micron, 7 layers of copper, SOI, dielectrics with low k coefficient). A serial chip sample will not, most likely, appear up to the end of the year. Chip will cost $575 for 1,2 GHz and $695 for 1,6 GHz version, but these are just preliminary calculations. <hr></blockquote>
With prices estimated at 8 months ago, you might figure that the thing would be ready.
You just sent us over there so we would read this:
[quote] I'd like to finish with MPF 2001 with a not absolutely "processor-like" forum event: TRANSTIVE TECHNOLOGIES company showed Dynamite software platform capable of translating binary code from one processor to code of another that was shown during the forum when the code of PowerPC was executed on... Athlon.
At presentation company representatives said that the essence of process is dynamic "on-the-fly" transformation of code of one architecture to code of another. The given system with Athlon processor, for example, known to support x86 instruction set perfectly worked OS Linux for PowerPC. Just miracles! Dynamite, according to company representatives, is actually a "decoder" of input commands, core coder, and translator to output code. It is something like Code Morphing Software (CMS) made by Transmeta company for its Crusoe processor. Frankly speaking, the latter is only about transformation of x86 instruction set to internal VLIW-words.
Interest to such designs is reasoned: if x86 processor can perform as PowerPC why, for example, MIPS processor can't work as StrongArm? And if to record to such software to ROM? So, with certain approach the company can have good dividends from the development and also inject new life into many present processor development.
Touching on POWER, I remember reading a statement by an IBM exec that the next 2 generations of the POWER have been planned. POWER5 will focus on reducing the chip size and power consumption to make suitable for blade servers. POWER6 will be focused on performance. The part that interested me was the statement on the POWER5. Maybe this project is the genesis of the rumors that IBM and not Moto (No G5) will be providing the next gen Mac chips. Couple that with the G3 Sahara having an Altivec like SIMD and you have some interesting possibilities. All very interesting, but not in time for NYMW 02. MWSF 03 maybe?
You'll find you are mistaken... about a great many things.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Moki, I like the way you sound!
You sound so damn sure that I'm mistaken, I will take that as a very, very good sign.
Suddenly the G5 has become very interesting indeed. Moki's remarks, combined with the rumors of the G5 coming from somewhere other than Moto, suggest a very, very interesting CPU is in Apple's future. One that may put the POWER back in POWERmac.
<strong>Couple that with the G3 Sahara having an Altivec like SIMD and you have some interesting possibilities.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The Sahara has no SIMD. The G4 does. The G3 is still my favorite chip, though. The very low power usage and little heat make it the best portable chip available.
In regards to this (I have more fully quoted our beloved Emperor):
"You will find it is you who are mistaken...about a great many things."
Nothing more than heresay unless he backs it up. If he is hesitant to back it up, he shouldn't say anything to begin with. I wouldn't.
There are insiders all over the Mac software industry who know what the next big thing is - they're only useful here, if they find a way to share information and not get caught. Since everyone knows who Moki is...well, you do the math.
Comments
<strong>
What is it with Mhz or what Intel does. Mhz is only part of the equation for a fast computer. Get over it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sure, MHz is only part of the equation. But when the Pentium is at 3 GHz and the G4 is at 1 GHz, the Intel is faster because of brute MHz. That's reality. You can bask in some self-powered RDF all you like, but MHz DO matter, and right now Apple is getting their a$$ kicked because of MHz.
The Power4 is a pipe dream, it will never happen for Apple, ever. Call it lack f trying or whatever you like, but IBM is behind Motorola in desktop CPU performance, so it would be a bad choice for Apple to go with IBM. The G3 sucks compared to the G4, anyone can see that. Apple needs something faster than the G4, and something that uses Altivec, and the only place they can get something like that is from Moto.
Game over.
I thought this article was quite interesting regarding the AMD clawhammer/opteron (no, it's not claiming it will be used in the Mac, don't be misled by the title): <a href="http://www.overclockers.com/tips011/"; target="_blank">Hammer: the next PowerPC</a>
To contrast with the above story this claims the Hammer will actually launch at 2 Ghz (instead of 1.6) <a href="http://www.virescentnetworks.com/layout.php?page=news/amd06072002.php"; target="_blank">Interpreting the Hammer test results</a>
[ 06-09-2002: Message edited by: BobtheTomato ]</p>
<strong>The Power4 is a pipe dream, it will never happen for Apple, ever. Call it lack f trying or whatever you like, but IBM is behind Motorola in desktop CPU performance, so it would be a bad choice for Apple to go with IBM. The G3 sucks compared to the G4, anyone can see that. Apple needs something faster than the G4, and something that uses Altivec, and the only place they can get something like that is from Moto.
Game over.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You'll find you are mistaken... about a great many things.
You'll find you are mistaken... about a great many things.<hr></blockquote>
Moki, other topic, other question.
Moto or IBM ?
Edit: darn typos! Though I have to admit that a "cloak boost" sounds a lot more interesting than a "clock boost"
[ 06-09-2002: Message edited by: BobtheTomato ]</p>
<strong>
Game over.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So today Apple is doomed? I kinda wish you'd make up your mind.
<strong>
You'll find you are mistaken... about a great many things.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So the POWER4 isn't a pipe dream for Apple? And IBM WILL be fabbing the chips?
Just look at the shock factor; even the naysayers will be Stunned to some degree! Well, that's if they don't release anything else, like up to 1.2ghz DP G4s, which is what I think is most likely. I haven't noticed (haven't read 2% of all the rumors/information anyway) that much expectancy of 1ghz powerbooks, so that could seem Big to some. The Biggest possible thing I can imagine all this hubbub may portend, is a new "digital lifestyle device". Something new, not simply revamped or slightly enhanced.
<strong>So the POWER4 isn't a pipe dream for Apple? And IBM WILL be fabbing the chips?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think Moki is just playing with your mind.
<strong>
I think Moki is just playing with your mind.
Normally, I would believe you. But after MWSF I learned that Moki dances around what he can say without violating his NDA. So his vague comments always make me wonder.
From Oct 2001, after the Microprocessor forum.
<a href="http://www.digit-life.com/articles/digest0110/"; target="_blank">http://www.digit-life.com/articles/digest0110/</a>;
[quote]
Some details about new PowerPC G5 were said by Motorola in its turn: its PowerPC 8500 features 10-step conveyor, new structure of internal processor bus, altered and modified NPU and FPU. Besides, processor will appear in 32-and 64-bit variants on Motorola's new HiP7 process (0,13 micron, 7 layers of copper, SOI, dielectrics with low k coefficient). A serial chip sample will not, most likely, appear up to the end of the year. Chip will cost $575 for 1,2 GHz and $695 for 1,6 GHz version, but these are just preliminary calculations. <hr></blockquote>
With prices estimated at 8 months ago, you might figure that the thing would be ready.
So these were first sampling right about the time Dorsal got his concrete shoes or whatever?
[quote] I'd like to finish with MPF 2001 with a not absolutely "processor-like" forum event: TRANSTIVE TECHNOLOGIES company showed Dynamite software platform capable of translating binary code from one processor to code of another that was shown during the forum when the code of PowerPC was executed on... Athlon.
At presentation company representatives said that the essence of process is dynamic "on-the-fly" transformation of code of one architecture to code of another. The given system with Athlon processor, for example, known to support x86 instruction set perfectly worked OS Linux for PowerPC. Just miracles! Dynamite, according to company representatives, is actually a "decoder" of input commands, core coder, and translator to output code. It is something like Code Morphing Software (CMS) made by Transmeta company for its Crusoe processor. Frankly speaking, the latter is only about transformation of x86 instruction set to internal VLIW-words.
Interest to such designs is reasoned: if x86 processor can perform as PowerPC why, for example, MIPS processor can't work as StrongArm? And if to record to such software to ROM? So, with certain approach the company can have good dividends from the development and also inject new life into many present processor development.
<hr></blockquote>
<strong>
You'll find you are mistaken... about a great many things.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Moki, I like the way you sound!
You sound so damn sure that I'm mistaken, I will take that as a very, very good sign.
Suddenly the G5 has become very interesting indeed. Moki's remarks, combined with the rumors of the G5 coming from somewhere other than Moto, suggest a very, very interesting CPU is in Apple's future. One that may put the POWER back in POWERmac.
But when?
Please...
<strong>Couple that with the G3 Sahara having an Altivec like SIMD and you have some interesting possibilities.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The Sahara has no SIMD. The G4 does. The G3 is still my favorite chip, though. The very low power usage and little heat make it the best portable chip available.
In regards to this (I have more fully quoted our beloved Emperor):
"You will find it is you who are mistaken...about a great many things."
Nothing more than heresay unless he backs it up. If he is hesitant to back it up, he shouldn't say anything to begin with. I wouldn't.
There are insiders all over the Mac software industry who know what the next big thing is - they're only useful here, if they find a way to share information and not get caught. Since everyone knows who Moki is...well, you do the math.
Originally posted by moki:
You'll find you are mistaken... about a great many things.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
and sooner than you might dare to hope...
<hr></blockquote>