Web design is not about learning a program; it's about learning HTML/XHTML, CSS, usability, accessibility, and the pros and cons of doing different things in different ways.
Web design is not about learning a program; it's about learning HTML/XHTML, CSS, usability, accessibility, and the pros and cons of doing different things in different ways.
people should be aware and take in consideration how all the above work and can be applied effectively to some degree or another, but it's not the end all be all of designing on the web. it is not all that important that someone needs to be able to write code (mark up if you will) from scratch. it's nice, but certainly not nescessary. i'd say get the general concept, and as you go along you'll pick up more than you imagine. that is unless you are primarily focusing on development and not the design. if your more the creative type, focus on good design, the rest will come.
Unless you are doing personal home pages, dont waste yours and your clients time, doing web design, if you do not know what you are doing. And knowing how to use Dreamweaver, etc.. does not mean you know what you are doing.
If you just want to make personal sites and what not, by all means, have fun...
But, if you are going into this as a career, or you are going to charge for your services, do your client a favor, and learn what you need to learn, or dont bother with it.
I dont know how many sites that I have acquired from others that did not know what they were doing, and it made it such a mess to rebuild the client's site the right way.
I dont mean to preach, but its like going to a mechanic's shop, and saying.. I can fix or build that car, when really you only know how to open the hood, change the oil, and possible rotate the tires...
Unless you are doing personal home pages, dont waste yours and your clients time, doing web design, if you do not know what you are doing. And knowing how to use Dreamweaver, etc.. does not mean you know what you are doing.
true, but just cause you know the ins and outs of writing code does not mean your going to design a good site. in fact most programers i've worked with over the last five years, couldn't design their way out of a wet paper bag. it doesn't matter if your designing for the web or for print, good design is good design. and as such, a designer should take all things relevent regarding a given project into consideration. obviously the more you know the better, sure, no doubt about it, but to say that you have to know everything about the code is absolute bullshit. get familar with it, know the limitations and move on.
I dont mean to preach, but its like going to a mechanic's shop, and saying.. I can fix or build that car, when really you only know how to open the hood, change the oil, and possible rotate the tires...
Ah, but you don't have to know how the car engine works to be a good driver. Following the "prescribed" mainentance schedule will keep your car in good condition, but even then you don't necessarily have to know how to do the oil change yourself.
Don't get me wrong, it IS important to know WHY the oil is being changed in the car -- and the consequences if you don't. But don't give me all this crap that knowing coding is the only way someone can design good web pages.
Web sites are 1/3 design, 1/3 content, and 1/3 coding. Why not let someone have DW do most of what they want if the design and content dictate that that's all they need.
My advice: Learn a little bit of coding (so you have an idea of how the web works), but also focus on design and content, because it doesn't matter how wonderfully your site is in the markup language if you have sh*tty content and it looks bad.
Being able to write the code, or mark-up, is part of the design! I wouldn't call people who can write XHTML and CSS programmers by any means. If you're going to be designing content for the web, you should know XHTML and CSS.
I should also add that from the perspective of a web designer, it is 1/2 coding, 1/2 visual design. Content doesn't even enter into it when you're the designer, because that is not your job.
To pop in a metaphor...
I grew up racing sailboats, specifically Lightnings. I was taught to be able to sail the boat without a rudder. Did I ever really do this in a race or practicing? No, but I at least knew how, and it made me a better skipper.
So you don't have to know XHTML/CSS to be a "Web designer", but it's damn sure going to make you a good one. And since the mark-up is what is actually making the site you are building 'come to life' as it were, I'd say it is pretty damn important to know it. It's not that difficult, it's a mark-up language.
If you're going to do something professionally, do it right. Know your tools... and face it, the code is part of the design.
The thing is, I think you have to know the code inside out to know exactly how necessary it is to know it.
If you don't know the code--you don't know what a certain bit of HTML or CSS does--then I'm afraid you can't call yourself a web designer. You're just someone who uses Dreamweaver to put things on the web, without knowing what it's doing or why it's doing them, or how they could be done better. It's automation, and automation is always inferior to actually knowing what you're doing.
How often have I been asked by clients and friends alike this very question, "I was trying to edit the site in [insert WYISWYG editor here] and it broke the site. How do I fix it?" or "I can't get [WYSIWYG editor] to do what I want. Help!"
What is included in Studio MX and how much is the student version?
The student version includes Full versions of Flash MX, Dreamweaver MX, Fireworks MX, FreeHand MX, ColdFusion MX Developer Edition (Windows Only), Macromedia Flash Player 6
(It is the regular Studio MX)(Regular customers can get Studio MX Plus Except it costs $899)
Well the student version is only $199 (You cannot use it to make money though)
I should also add that from the perspective of a web designer, it is 1/2 coding, 1/2 visual design. Content doesn't even enter into it when you're the designer, because that is not your job.
that's insane, how can you say that? content drives the design. how you go about laying something out is directly influenced by what kind of content you have. you ignore the content and your ignoring your client's needs and more than likely missing the boat intirely.
I think to have a steady understanding of Dreamweaver - and to be able to fix problems that crop up - AND to have design freedom, the user needs to know at least basic HTML.
The thing is, I think you have to know the code inside out to know exactly how necessary it is to know it.
If you don't know the code--you don't know what a certain bit of HTML or CSS does--then I'm afraid you can't call yourself a web designer. You're just someone who uses Dreamweaver to put things on the web, without knowing what it's doing or why it's doing them, or how they could be done better. It's automation, and automation is always inferior to actually knowing what you're doing.
once again, i call bullshit. you don't have know the every nuance of the code to grasp designing on the web. you just need to know how to design for the web. period. the more code you know is just icing on the cake. nothing more.
that's insane, how can you say that? content drives the design. how you go about laying something out is directly influenced by what kind of content you have. you ignore the content and your ignoring your client's needs and more than likely missing the boat intirely.
I think we're misinterpreting each other. A client comes to me. Wants me to build his site. Well, from an ID perspective, yes, who the client is, what their site is about enter into the design. But I'm not going to say to a client, "I'm sorry sir, but you do not have enough content for me to build your website."
I am not a content creator in the truest sense of the word. I work with what I'm given, but the content is not my responsibility. I am a third party. It is up to them to provide content to drive the site, not me. Yeah, it matters when I'm doing the interface, but really, beyond that, it isn't my problem.
And no, you don't have to know every nuance of XHTML/CSS to make money in the industry. Not even to be successful. But knowledge is power, and if I have a firmer understanding of what I am working with than you do, then I have a distinct advantage. Much like if a mechanic knows every little quirk about an engine... it makes him a better mechanic. I'm better at what I do than most people because I know it inside and out and can adapt and manipulate the medium to do exactly what I want.
If you do not have an in-depth understanding of the theory and capabilities of what you're working with, you are at a disadvantage and you fall under the mercy of your tools instead of you. So yes, I think it is very important to have a deep, working knowledge of the code. If you don't want to, that's your choice. I just believe you can be better at what you do by knowing it this intimately.
It's really the science of it. If I have a rendering issue, I know there is a logical reason for why it is happening. So I can easily fix it. but if you built it in dreamweaver, and don't know XHTML/CSS down to the spec... you're the kind of person that ends up calling me and asking to solve your problem. This happens... every week.
Comments
Originally posted by Slotracer152
I was thinking about getting a student version of Macromedia Studio and playing with it some.
How difficult is it for a newbie to figure out?
i dont think very hard, i picked up on it rather quickly when i first got started, though i'm still learning new features and things i like
`tommy
Originally posted by unremarkable
Web design is not about learning a program; it's about learning HTML/XHTML, CSS, usability, accessibility, and the pros and cons of doing different things in different ways.
people should be aware and take in consideration how all the above work and can be applied effectively to some degree or another, but it's not the end all be all of designing on the web. it is not all that important that someone needs to be able to write code (mark up if you will) from scratch. it's nice, but certainly not nescessary. i'd say get the general concept, and as you go along you'll pick up more than you imagine. that is unless you are primarily focusing on development and not the design. if your more the creative type, focus on good design, the rest will come.
Unless you are doing personal home pages, dont waste yours and your clients time, doing web design, if you do not know what you are doing. And knowing how to use Dreamweaver, etc.. does not mean you know what you are doing.
If you just want to make personal sites and what not, by all means, have fun...
But, if you are going into this as a career, or you are going to charge for your services, do your client a favor, and learn what you need to learn, or dont bother with it.
I dont know how many sites that I have acquired from others that did not know what they were doing, and it made it such a mess to rebuild the client's site the right way.
I dont mean to preach, but its like going to a mechanic's shop, and saying.. I can fix or build that car, when really you only know how to open the hood, change the oil, and possible rotate the tires...
Originally posted by SCARECROW
So would I...
Unless you are doing personal home pages, dont waste yours and your clients time, doing web design, if you do not know what you are doing. And knowing how to use Dreamweaver, etc.. does not mean you know what you are doing.
true, but just cause you know the ins and outs of writing code does not mean your going to design a good site. in fact most programers i've worked with over the last five years, couldn't design their way out of a wet paper bag. it doesn't matter if your designing for the web or for print, good design is good design. and as such, a designer should take all things relevent regarding a given project into consideration. obviously the more you know the better, sure, no doubt about it, but to say that you have to know everything about the code is absolute bullshit. get familar with it, know the limitations and move on.
Originally posted by SCARECROW
I dont mean to preach, but its like going to a mechanic's shop, and saying.. I can fix or build that car, when really you only know how to open the hood, change the oil, and possible rotate the tires...
Ah, but you don't have to know how the car engine works to be a good driver. Following the "prescribed" mainentance schedule will keep your car in good condition, but even then you don't necessarily have to know how to do the oil change yourself.
Don't get me wrong, it IS important to know WHY the oil is being changed in the car -- and the consequences if you don't. But don't give me all this crap that knowing coding is the only way someone can design good web pages.
Web sites are 1/3 design, 1/3 content, and 1/3 coding. Why not let someone have DW do most of what they want if the design and content dictate that that's all they need.
My advice: Learn a little bit of coding (so you have an idea of how the web works), but also focus on design and content, because it doesn't matter how wonderfully your site is in the markup language if you have sh*tty content and it looks bad.
I should also add that from the perspective of a web designer, it is 1/2 coding, 1/2 visual design. Content doesn't even enter into it when you're the designer, because that is not your job.
To pop in a metaphor...
I grew up racing sailboats, specifically Lightnings. I was taught to be able to sail the boat without a rudder. Did I ever really do this in a race or practicing? No, but I at least knew how, and it made me a better skipper.
So you don't have to know XHTML/CSS to be a "Web designer", but it's damn sure going to make you a good one. And since the mark-up is what is actually making the site you are building 'come to life' as it were, I'd say it is pretty damn important to know it. It's not that difficult, it's a mark-up language.
If you're going to do something professionally, do it right. Know your tools... and face it, the code is part of the design.
If you don't know the code--you don't know what a certain bit of HTML or CSS does--then I'm afraid you can't call yourself a web designer. You're just someone who uses Dreamweaver to put things on the web, without knowing what it's doing or why it's doing them, or how they could be done better. It's automation, and automation is always inferior to actually knowing what you're doing.
Originally posted by bih
What is included in Studio MX and how much is the student version?
The student version includes Full versions of Flash MX, Dreamweaver MX, Fireworks MX, FreeHand MX, ColdFusion MX Developer Edition (Windows Only), Macromedia Flash Player 6
(It is the regular Studio MX)(Regular customers can get Studio MX Plus Except it costs $899)
Well the student version is only $199 (You cannot use it to make money though)
Originally posted by LoCash
I should also add that from the perspective of a web designer, it is 1/2 coding, 1/2 visual design. Content doesn't even enter into it when you're the designer, because that is not your job.
that's insane, how can you say that? content drives the design. how you go about laying something out is directly influenced by what kind of content you have. you ignore the content and your ignoring your client's needs and more than likely missing the boat intirely.
Originally posted by unremarkable
The thing is, I think you have to know the code inside out to know exactly how necessary it is to know it.
If you don't know the code--you don't know what a certain bit of HTML or CSS does--then I'm afraid you can't call yourself a web designer. You're just someone who uses Dreamweaver to put things on the web, without knowing what it's doing or why it's doing them, or how they could be done better. It's automation, and automation is always inferior to actually knowing what you're doing.
once again, i call bullshit. you don't have know the every nuance of the code to grasp designing on the web. you just need to know how to design for the web. period. the more code you know is just icing on the cake. nothing more.
Originally posted by running with scissors
that's insane, how can you say that? content drives the design. how you go about laying something out is directly influenced by what kind of content you have. you ignore the content and your ignoring your client's needs and more than likely missing the boat intirely.
I think we're misinterpreting each other. A client comes to me. Wants me to build his site. Well, from an ID perspective, yes, who the client is, what their site is about enter into the design. But I'm not going to say to a client, "I'm sorry sir, but you do not have enough content for me to build your website."
I am not a content creator in the truest sense of the word. I work with what I'm given, but the content is not my responsibility. I am a third party. It is up to them to provide content to drive the site, not me. Yeah, it matters when I'm doing the interface, but really, beyond that, it isn't my problem.
And no, you don't have to know every nuance of XHTML/CSS to make money in the industry. Not even to be successful. But knowledge is power, and if I have a firmer understanding of what I am working with than you do, then I have a distinct advantage. Much like if a mechanic knows every little quirk about an engine... it makes him a better mechanic. I'm better at what I do than most people because I know it inside and out and can adapt and manipulate the medium to do exactly what I want.
If you do not have an in-depth understanding of the theory and capabilities of what you're working with, you are at a disadvantage and you fall under the mercy of your tools instead of you. So yes, I think it is very important to have a deep, working knowledge of the code. If you don't want to, that's your choice. I just believe you can be better at what you do by knowing it this intimately.
It's really the science of it. If I have a rendering issue, I know there is a logical reason for why it is happening. So I can easily fix it. but if you built it in dreamweaver, and don't know XHTML/CSS down to the spec... you're the kind of person that ends up calling me and asking to solve your problem. This happens... every week.