Webdesign newbie

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  • Reply 21 of 33
    I started out using GoLive and then gradually got to the point where I write everything by hand. Now that I have converted over to using CSS layout instead of tables, that has gotten a lot easier. I would dispute the statement that hand coding lets you understand rendering problems. All the browsers have their own inexplicable set of definiciencies, and there is a lot of trial and error testing when you hand code.



    I still say starting with a good graphical editor is perfectly fine though, and DW is the best, and it is the way to go if you just want to throw together something decent quickly right at the first. Eventually, if you want to be a pro you should to learn to code by hand. Sadly though, in the current environment, just by not using Frontpage you are already in the top 50 percent.



    Whenever anyone starts talking smack about html I like to check out their site. I'm just an amateur but here is mine-- if you go to the archive you can see how my style developed over the years:



    www.utm.edu/~mharvey



    fm
  • Reply 22 of 33
    scarecrowscarecrow Posts: 148member
    Knowing the language, is the most important aspect of building professional level sites...



    And that is the part, that I think most of the people in this thread who disagree, are missing...



    If you want to do personal level sites, then you do not need to know the languages at all... that is true.



    But, if you are going to do this for a living, it is vital that you know all that you can... period.



    As for content vs design vs code....



    Content is irregardless. A good design seperated the content from the code, completely. So, no matter what the content, it is displayed fine...



    Seperation of your content from the code, will make a good site everytime, as it allows for changes, additions, etc.. without ever having to recode the site. It also allows for re-designing the site with the the utmost of ease, as you dont have to worry about how the content will fit into the picture, and you can make changes on a few seperate pages of code, and have it update site-wide, instantly.



    Design, is not about making things look pretty.. its about making the site useable. It should always be the first step in the process.. and it is actually architecture more than it is design.



    Graphics and look/feel are something that, if the site is designed right, can be changed out very easily, since you have already done the architecture, and the code allows for look/feel to be changed.. sometimes even on the fly.



    I design many of my sites with this in mind, from the get-go. We offer our site visitors their choice of the display mechanism. This can only be done by building a site correctly, with forethought, good flexible layout, and adeherence to standards and good coding techniques. These are not even remotely available in all of today's WYSIWYG editors...



    One of the best examples of these design techniques is here:





    http://www.csszengarden.com/





    Note how the look and feel of the page can be completely changed.. on the fly.. without ever having to change anything on the site, other than a stylesheet. This is the future of the web, and static pages created in WYSIWYG editors is a thing of the past. Its the evolution of web design. Either get on board, or get out of the way...



    Sorry to be blunt, but that just how it is.



  • Reply 23 of 33
    I have GoLive, Dreamweaver, and BBEdit on my machine. Personally I just use BBEdit because I like it more and I hand code all my stuff. I never really got too much into the others, but even though I suck at web design HTML Javascript blah blah blah....I still like to hand code everything and it makes it easier to get something that is compatible with everything. Is there any reason I should look further into Dreamweaver instead? To start out I tried GoLive and didnt really like it...so I have been strictly BBEdit for coding now.
  • Reply 24 of 33
    ijerryijerry Posts: 615member
    You don't NEED to know all the code to make a decent site. But you will need the code eventually. All the little tools are in there in the WYSIWYG but if you don't know CSS how are you to use it to its fullest potential? If you don't know HTML or whatnot how are you supposed to make it your own? Sure you can build a site, and probably a good one with just being good at design, but imagine if you actually knew something....



    Anything can be rigged for good enough purposes, but to really make a claim and self gratification you would have to see where this all came from. See why and how stuff works. Be curious. It is perfectly fine to build a site however you see fit because the experience you gain is worth a lot too. Once you get comfortable, or find yourself in a rut, take the time to learn some code so that you can get better. Hell, maybe even take a class. whatever it takes, if this is what you are into.



    Ultimately, there is no one right answer, it all depends on the person that is building the site that determines what is most important. that is what makes building sites so special, it can be done several ways. Have fun with it and learn from your mistakes, that is all you can do.
  • Reply 25 of 33
    dag...I was just asking a simple question
  • Reply 26 of 33
    That's what you think.
  • Reply 27 of 33
    ghost_user_nameghost_user_name Posts: 22,667member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Slotracer152

    dag...I was just asking a simple question



    Yeah, but we like to argue about this... and make fun of the WYSIWYG people
  • Reply 28 of 33
    Quote:

    Originally posted by LoCash

    Yeah, but we like to argue about this... and make fun of the WYSIWYG people



    that's all right, i'm laughing all the way to the bank.
  • Reply 29 of 33
    You can no doubt give me some tips, then, on how not to be undercut by teenagers with copies of Dreamweaver...
  • Reply 30 of 33
    Quote:

    Originally posted by unremarkable

    You can no doubt give me some tips, then, on how not to be undercut by teenagers with copies of Dreamweaver...



    simple, if your losing business to all the hotline and carracho kiddies then take yourself out of that kind of market. do your self a favor and don't do business for people who won't pay for profesional level work. it's just not worth it in the long run. seek out better clients and price yourself accordingly.
  • Reply 31 of 33
    ghost_user_nameghost_user_name Posts: 22,667member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by running with scissors

    that's all right, i'm laughing all the way to the bank.



    I'll meet you there, this lousy economy is actually doing alright for me too God bless government clients.



    Now I have to decide whether or not to keep my 50" Sony LCD RPTV or pick up the Panasonic 52" DLP RPTV. I'm leaning towards the Panasonic
  • Reply 32 of 33
    Quote:

    Originally posted by LoCash

    I'll meet you there, this lousy economy is actually doing alright for me too God bless government clients.



    ahh yes, sucking off the goverment tit can be nice.
  • Reply 33 of 33
    ghost_user_nameghost_user_name Posts: 22,667member
    Your tax dollars at work
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