Future of OS9 booting models?
Well, the big announcement (back at MWSF?) was that MacOS 9.0 was dead, and so too would be OS9 booting towers - at the end of June 2003.
But, somehow we now have three OS9 booting G4s in the Apple store, which is an increase over the two available prior to the G5 announcement, and they have lower prices too.
While these machines are clearly obsolete with the intro of the G5, how much longer will they hang around? Until the G5 is shipping? Until the end of the year? Apple will decide that they really do have to support OS9 booting G5s?
(I read somewhere that the low-end G5 boots 9.0, but that seems like a mistake, it seems Classic only, anyone know for certain?)
(Note to moderator, if you think this thread is inappropriate please just lock rather than move, I won't follow it in another forum section.)
But, somehow we now have three OS9 booting G4s in the Apple store, which is an increase over the two available prior to the G5 announcement, and they have lower prices too.
While these machines are clearly obsolete with the intro of the G5, how much longer will they hang around? Until the G5 is shipping? Until the end of the year? Apple will decide that they really do have to support OS9 booting G5s?
(I read somewhere that the low-end G5 boots 9.0, but that seems like a mistake, it seems Classic only, anyone know for certain?)
(Note to moderator, if you think this thread is inappropriate please just lock rather than move, I won't follow it in another forum section.)
Comments
My understanding is that these pseudo-new G4 towers will be pulled off the shelves once the G5 is shipping (August/September). At that point it'll be pretty hard to convince anyone to get a G4 tower, even if it's $1299.
Originally posted by Commodus
My understanding is that these pseudo-new G4 towers will be pulled off the shelves once the G5 is shipping (August/September). At that point it'll be pretty hard to convince anyone to get a G4 tower, even if it's $1299.
I'm not really sure that's the answer. If G4s are just hanging around for shipping G5s then why are these OS9 booting? Why didn't Apple just delete the OS9 models, as they said they would, and continue selling the X-only G4s?
There almost seems to be a deliberate price differentiation too, between the G4 and G5 towers.
Just to ask, where did you get your info from anyway?
They are selling the OS9 booters because that's what they've got to sell.
:-)
I'm not sure about this. I think Apple has adopted the Two Tower philosophy. They felt the need to offer a lower price tower to fit between the G5s and the feature and expandability crippled iMac and eMac. OS9 booting was included to broaden the appeal.
Originally posted by jccbin
They are selling the OS9 booters because that's what they've got to sell.
I don't think this is right. We bought a couple of OS9 1.25GHz just before the G5 announcement (and the only regret is that the price dropped), MacWarehouse only had a six of these in stock, where they had a couple of hundred each of the 1.0 and 1.25 non-OS9 booting versions.
I'd imagine that pattern were repeated across other resellers.
Now the non-OS9 booting versions have been deleted, but the OS9 booting range has actually been expanded.
If they were just filling the gap then they'd just keep selling all the old range. And why expand the range, they couldn't have had the new model they've slipped in laying around!?
They are also not promoting these machines as just MacOS 9 booting (ie they previously weren't listed on the main page of the store, you had to go to the PowerMacs, then OS9 booting), they're listed on the front page as "PwerMac G4 supports both MacOS 9 and MacOS X".
Seems very odd to me.
It is the non-OS 9 booters that are going away.
Here's why: The OS 9 booters have an older/cheaper motherboard on them so Apple can make more blingbling on them/or offer lower prices than they could with the non-OS 9 booters.
Clive is right that the non-OS 9 booters disappeared early last week from Warehouse.com - and were replaced by G4s that were OS-9 bootable.
I think it comes down to the fact that the older MOBOs are cheaper, now that I've wiped the egg from my nose.
Originally posted by jccbin
OK, I made a booboo.
It is the non-OS 9 booters that are going away.
Here's why: The OS 9 booters have an older/cheaper motherboard on them so Apple can make more blingbling on them/or offer lower prices than they could with the non-OS 9 booters.
Clive is right that the non-OS 9 booters disappeared early last week from Warehouse.com - and were replaced by G4s that were OS-9 bootable.
I think it comes down to the fact that the older MOBOs are cheaper, now that I've wiped the egg from my nose.
Really? Isn't it just an extra command in the firmware that prevents the boot into OS 9?
But, I don't know how this would fit into Apple strategy...
Originally posted by bauman
Really? Isn't it just an extra command in the firmware that prevents the boot into OS 9?
But, I don't know how this would fit into Apple strategy...
no, there is a mobo difference between the two lines. the OS9 booters use a cheaper mobo that doesn't support airport extreme ot FW800 or built-in bluetooth. probably some other stuff too.
I'm not really sure that's the answer. If G4s are just hanging around for shipping G5s then why are these OS9 booting? Why didn't Apple just delete the OS9 models, as they said they would, and continue selling the X-only G4s?
There almost seems to be a deliberate price differentiation too, between the G4 and G5 towers.
Just to ask, where did you get your info from anyway?
It's clearly a deliberate attempt at a two-tier tower pricing structure. G5s vs G4.
It allows Apple to finally circumvent that 1 K inc VAT price barrier (man, I thought they'd never get there...)
*(There's a very substantive Mac Os 9 market left and Apple would be foolish to let sales go. Apple have got the transition they wanted. 7 million 'X' users and counting. That's good enough and more will come... Once Q6, Panther and the G5 market prove themselves...the '9' stragglers may finally come over...)
Who'd a thought a year ago: 1.25 G4 999 inc VAT? Or for three hundred more? A dual 1.25 gigger? Getting more competitive. (Though the current top end, full loaded G4 is ridiculous in the face of getting a dual G5, duh... Still, for a Mac OS 9 dinosaur wanting some future proofing for the next couple of years...)
...and according to Joswiak, this is NO short-term move (when questioned by Macworld...). That was interesting. Because I assumed it was a spare pile of 1.25 G4s only available until G5 is shipping.
Implications?
Apple need to increase marketshare. Won't do it with the new G5 prices. However, the G4 tower range bodes well for the future? Why? Because, I'm guessing that when the 970 goes to a 0.09 shrink then the current speed grades will be dropped into the current G4 tower price bracket. In a word, SCALABILITY! That's what the 970 gives Apple.
I'm further guessing that the low end towers will be single cpu 0.09 at current speed grades. And that the 'desktop' workstation Towers will be all dual... depending on speed bumps.
So...
Low end. (Affordable edu', consumer, gamer etc machine.)
1.6 G5 Single £999 inc VAT
1.8 G5 Single £1299 inc VAT
Workstation (For the pro' that wants Final Cut and Lightwave done in a 'hurray?'
2.0 G5 Single £1595 inc VAT.
2.2 G5 Single £1995 inc VAT.
2.5 G5 Dual £2395 inc VAT.
It's very doable. It's what they're doing now. It's clearly a new strategy to get people who aint impressed by the limitations of the iMac2/eMac. Hey, Joswiak says it's not short-term. So, £999-£2395 is now tower territory.
We'll see early 04 if my 'predictions' pan out but if so, what are the implications for the rest of the 'consumer' desktops iMac2/eMac?
Massive price cuts? Swift G5 transition (the only way I can see the iMac2 holding on to its current price bracket...)? Both replaced by a new headless G4 cheapo machine for the under £999 market? To me, the G5 Tower and the clear market for under £500 machines, puts pressure on Apple to do a sub £500 machine. Bare bones.
Heh. The G5 is going to give Apple options. I hope they take 'em.
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by pesi
no, there is a mobo difference between the two lines. the OS9 booters use a cheaper mobo that doesn't support airport extreme ot FW800 or built-in bluetooth. probably some other stuff too.
I think it's untrue to say they are "cheaper", in fact they were more expensive than the non-9 booters, they are just the older revision.
I realy don't think there would have been much to having the newer boards run 9.x.
But, at the same time, having G4s laying around seems to have a great opportunity to dilute sales of G5s (choice of buying the lowest G4 at GBP:850 or the cheapest G5 at 1,320 - given that for a lot of people the extra power isn't going to mean much). Though perhaps this is also why the 380mm PowerBook is still hanging around in an unrevised form.
If true it's something of a climb down.
Originally posted by @homenow
Lets not forget that Apple clearly, and publicly stated that they would support OS 9 booting through the end of July 03.
Uh, no, they clearly and publicly stated that they'd support OS 9 booting until the end of June 2003 - that was last week, hence the point of this thread.
Originally posted by Clive
Uh, no, they clearly and publicly stated that they'd support OS 9 booting until the end of June 2003 - that was last week, hence the point of this thread.
You are correct, brains not working yet this morning.
I still think that this has the potential to be a very short lived model, and could be replaced at any time by a 1.4 Ghz or faster model with little or no fan fare. They had single daughter cards, and dual daughter cards developed. They may have even had a good quantity of the duals on hand, and wanted to try to get ride of them. They can clearly take the "hit" on lower specs by pointing to the lower price of these models as well as the G5's for high powered Pro models.
Originally posted by @homenow
I still think that this has the potential to be a very short lived model, and could be replaced at any time by a 1.4 Ghz or faster model with little or no fan fare.
You think they're going to upgrade the 1.25 G4s to 1.4 G4s!? Surely we're then likely to see the G4 tower range for at least another 6 months!?
Originally posted by Clive
You think they're going to upgrade the 1.25 G4s to 1.4 G4s!? Surely we're then likely to see the G4 tower range for at least another 6 months!?
I dont see Apple releasing a lower priced G5 for 6 months, and the 7457 would allow Apple to boost the G4's speed, while decreasing its cost. Apple stated something to the effect that the G4 towers were to address the needs of people who didnt need the raw power of the G5, but couldnt/wouldnt buy an iMac due to its AIO format. And the R&D is already spent. I think that it is possible that we will still see a G4 tower in 12 months using a 7447 at close to 2Ghz.
What we have now is perhaps not "leftovers". But they only serve two purposes: 1) The last 9 bootable Macs and 2) Macs for those who are unable to wait until the new G5s are ready to go. The huge price drop reflects that. On one hand they can´t say "Sorry. For the next threee month you will not be able to buy a pro desktop mac" and on the other they can´t say "We want more money for our top of the line model than we will charge you for the many times faster model we already have announced will ship very soon".
In other words: If you like the G4s you see now grab one while you can...
The point here is really not that there are some G4s available, but those G4s are MacOS 9 booting.
Originally posted by Anders
I don´t think Apple is going to spend another dime in developing G4 Powermacs. To be competitive with the G5s they will have to be priced so low that they won´t be making money on them.
The next gen G4 is a pin for pin replacemnt for the current one, so the cost to Apple would be minimal. Add to that the fact that they have the 1.4's already developed so they have at least 1 rev at no cost to the current G4 lin-up, or to put it another way 1 model to bring back.I think the main question is can Moto give Apple a G4 chip that will allow Apple to lower the price enough to make it competative in the overall market. That would mean gettin the G4 tower down to a $999 entry price.
Unfortunately, there was slippage in the G5 schedule, and Apple has to keep the G4 towers around until Sept. when the G5s actually ship. The OS 9 compatibility is probably Steve-o throwing a bone to the pros still clinging to OS 9 due to it being faster in many single-tasking situations.
It's open to debate whether G4 towers will continue to be available after the G5s ship, although I'd like to see them stick around due to their low cost and switcher potential. Maybe they will swap to the FW800/Airport Extreme models at that point.