<strong>Ask yourself this. Where's the USB equivalent of
The iPod
Escient DVD Changers with FW
MLAN from Yamaha
Unibrain NAS, San and FW Networking
Focus Ehancements DV Capture Box sans "puter
DVD-Audio connectivity(they've ok'd FW as a connection capability providing encryption is used).</strong><hr></blockquote>
i think you hit the nail on the head, or very close to it. y'see, steve himself said that apple would innovate itself out of this slump the tech sector is encountering, and the ipod is the first step in that direction. as long as apple can keep offering the "must-have" firewire devices coupled with killer iApps, then Firewire may have life yet.
funny how the rest of the PC industry THANKED apple long ago for forcing the issue with usb 1.0 by making it standard, and now the general consuming public can't distinguish between 1.0 and 2.0, so they'll keep buying USB devices, thanks to apple's ramrodding it into the industry. ironic, methinks.
I would love the see the superior technology win. But the superior technology must also be couple with a superior business model, marketing and consumer interest, need and desire. This is a recipe for USB dominance, not FW.
The iPod is not a killer app for FW. No one is buying FW add on cards to enable iPods. The only iPod buyers are Apple customers who already own FW enabled computers. As for home networking, it will be done wirelessly, long before it is done with FW IMO. Both platforms still have issues to address. The one who addresses them first will ultimately win out. Till then, there will be a massive presence of USB and a limited, niche presence of FW.
<strong>I would love the see the superior technology win. But the superior technology must also be couple with a superior business model, marketing and consumer interest, need and desire. This is a recipe for USB dominance, not FW.
The iPod is not a killer app for FW. No one is buying FW add on cards to enable iPods. The only iPod buyers are Apple customers who already own FW enabled computers. As for home networking, it will be done wirelessly, long before it is done with FW IMO. Both platforms still have issues to address. The one who addresses them first will ultimately win out. Till then, there will be a massive presence of USB and a limited, niche presence of FW.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No but Desktop Digital Video IS a Killer App for FW.
Unibrain has been networking with FW before Airport even hit Apple. Now if you want to say Wireless is more ubiquitous then fine I will agree. All that changes when your cable length moves to 300 feet.
I think both Tech will coexist. I'm always amazed that some computer users always resort to choosing one platform or one connect standard. Choice is always good.
No but Desktop Digital Video IS a Killer App for FW.
Unibrain has been networking with FW before Airport even hit Apple. Now if you want to say Wireless is more ubiquitous then fine I will agree. All that changes when your cable length moves to 300 feet.
I think both Tech will coexist. I'm always amazed that some computer users always resort to choosing one platform or one connect standard. Choice is always good.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Agreed! I use FW myself with my DV cam. It is the only FW device I have. I have tons of USB devices. That is the way it will continue to be for some time. I love technology no matter who makes it. I'm hoping that power outlet networking and wireless connections replace both FW and USB. I have no great love for either one. I just happen to believe that USB in a better market position.
Agreed! I use FW myself with my DV cam. It is the only FW device I have. I have tons of USB devices. That is the way it will continue to be for some time. I love technology no matter who makes it. I'm hoping that power outlet networking and wireless connections replace both FW and USB. I have no great love for either one. I just happen to believe that USB in a better market position.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well said Mac Voyer. It's going to be fun to watch this unfold.
<strong>I also think that the reason Powermacs don't have an extra open drive bay is that Apple wants people to buy Firewire products....it's a not so sneaky way to promote Firewire, and of course Apple makes money on Firewire peripheral sales as well. But mostly Apple is trying to create a Firewire market by forcing Powermac buyers to buy external drives.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd find this very annoying if true, and it does make a certain Mac-hiavellian sense. (Sorry, couldn't resist!) Before you brought this up, I'd figured the lack of extra accessible-through-the-front-panel drive bays was just a matter of aesthetics superceding practicality, such as the lack of an easily reached CD/DVD emergency eject button. (The recent Celine Dion CD mess shows that software-only access to ejecting a disc is a Bad Idea.)
After all, if we had another open drive bay that shows through the front, someone might (gasp!) install a piece of hardware and leave a big chunk of (gack!) beige plastic where everyone can see it!
I don't want extra clutter that I don't need, extra cables, and I certainly don't want still yet another wall wart to cram into an overburdened power strip. I also have to pay extra when using an external drive for separate housing and the extra power supply, neither of which I really want.
I'd be much happier if the next generation of Power Macs lets me install an extra DVD drive or a tape back-up internally. We can then let it be a wonderful third-party opportunity to provide pretty silvery-gray crystal plastic faceplates to cover up any inelegant hardware that might be installed.
As for USB 2.0: I would hope that Apple will provide USB 2.0 right away rather than, as I suspect will happen, waiting until they are forced to do so. Adding USB 2.0 is very inexpensive, so the only reason not to do so is a turf war over FireWire. If FireWire is better, let it win on its merits, not because access to USB 2.0 is made difficult.
Does anyone know exactly how fast firewire 1394b is supposed to run. I've read articles that say 800, 800 and 1600, and all speeds up to 3200Mbps with only different implementations, distances, and optical vs copper connectors to seperate them -- all, however, compatible with each other, at least to the lowest common speed supported by the host or the periph. So which is it?
In any event, a plausible work arond for Apple would be to just provide the USB2.0 connection or to bump firewire up to such a speed (say 1600Mbps) that a USB2.0 bridge or for that matter, a PCI bridge, like the current IDE bridges becomes an acceptable work around.
My bet is that pro machines get 1600Mbps firewire since that will be the minimum for uncompressed HD DV (1920x1080@24P, 1200Mbps actually, but there is no such speed in the firewire spec). iMacs and iBooks may just stay where they are, unless it's just cheaper to use the same I/O controller for all their machines.
Comments
<strong>Ask yourself this. Where's the USB equivalent of
The iPod
Escient DVD Changers with FW
MLAN from Yamaha
Unibrain NAS, San and FW Networking
Focus Ehancements DV Capture Box sans "puter
DVD-Audio connectivity(they've ok'd FW as a connection capability providing encryption is used).</strong><hr></blockquote>
i think you hit the nail on the head, or very close to it. y'see, steve himself said that apple would innovate itself out of this slump the tech sector is encountering, and the ipod is the first step in that direction. as long as apple can keep offering the "must-have" firewire devices coupled with killer iApps, then Firewire may have life yet.
funny how the rest of the PC industry THANKED apple long ago for forcing the issue with usb 1.0 by making it standard, and now the general consuming public can't distinguish between 1.0 and 2.0, so they'll keep buying USB devices, thanks to apple's ramrodding it into the industry. ironic, methinks.
The iPod is not a killer app for FW. No one is buying FW add on cards to enable iPods. The only iPod buyers are Apple customers who already own FW enabled computers. As for home networking, it will be done wirelessly, long before it is done with FW IMO. Both platforms still have issues to address. The one who addresses them first will ultimately win out. Till then, there will be a massive presence of USB and a limited, niche presence of FW.
<strong>I would love the see the superior technology win. But the superior technology must also be couple with a superior business model, marketing and consumer interest, need and desire. This is a recipe for USB dominance, not FW.
The iPod is not a killer app for FW. No one is buying FW add on cards to enable iPods. The only iPod buyers are Apple customers who already own FW enabled computers. As for home networking, it will be done wirelessly, long before it is done with FW IMO. Both platforms still have issues to address. The one who addresses them first will ultimately win out. Till then, there will be a massive presence of USB and a limited, niche presence of FW.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No but Desktop Digital Video IS a Killer App for FW.
Unibrain has been networking with FW before Airport even hit Apple. Now if you want to say Wireless is more ubiquitous then fine I will agree. All that changes when your cable length moves to 300 feet.
I think both Tech will coexist. I'm always amazed that some computer users always resort to choosing one platform or one connect standard. Choice is always good.
<strong>
No but Desktop Digital Video IS a Killer App for FW.
Unibrain has been networking with FW before Airport even hit Apple. Now if you want to say Wireless is more ubiquitous then fine I will agree. All that changes when your cable length moves to 300 feet.
I think both Tech will coexist. I'm always amazed that some computer users always resort to choosing one platform or one connect standard. Choice is always good.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Agreed! I use FW myself with my DV cam. It is the only FW device I have. I have tons of USB devices. That is the way it will continue to be for some time. I love technology no matter who makes it. I'm hoping that power outlet networking and wireless connections replace both FW and USB. I have no great love for either one. I just happen to believe that USB in a better market position.
<strong>
Agreed! I use FW myself with my DV cam. It is the only FW device I have. I have tons of USB devices. That is the way it will continue to be for some time. I love technology no matter who makes it. I'm hoping that power outlet networking and wireless connections replace both FW and USB. I have no great love for either one. I just happen to believe that USB in a better market position.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well said Mac Voyer. It's going to be fun to watch this unfold.
<strong>I also think that the reason Powermacs don't have an extra open drive bay is that Apple wants people to buy Firewire products....it's a not so sneaky way to promote Firewire, and of course Apple makes money on Firewire peripheral sales as well. But mostly Apple is trying to create a Firewire market by forcing Powermac buyers to buy external drives.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd find this very annoying if true, and it does make a certain Mac-hiavellian sense. (Sorry, couldn't resist!) Before you brought this up, I'd figured the lack of extra accessible-through-the-front-panel drive bays was just a matter of aesthetics superceding practicality, such as the lack of an easily reached CD/DVD emergency eject button. (The recent Celine Dion CD mess shows that software-only access to ejecting a disc is a Bad Idea.)
After all, if we had another open drive bay that shows through the front, someone might (gasp!) install a piece of hardware and leave a big chunk of (gack!) beige plastic where everyone can see it!
I don't want extra clutter that I don't need, extra cables, and I certainly don't want still yet another wall wart to cram into an overburdened power strip. I also have to pay extra when using an external drive for separate housing and the extra power supply, neither of which I really want.
I'd be much happier if the next generation of Power Macs lets me install an extra DVD drive or a tape back-up internally. We can then let it be a wonderful third-party opportunity to provide pretty silvery-gray crystal plastic faceplates to cover up any inelegant hardware that might be installed.
As for USB 2.0: I would hope that Apple will provide USB 2.0 right away rather than, as I suspect will happen, waiting until they are forced to do so. Adding USB 2.0 is very inexpensive, so the only reason not to do so is a turf war over FireWire. If FireWire is better, let it win on its merits, not because access to USB 2.0 is made difficult.
In any event, a plausible work arond for Apple would be to just provide the USB2.0 connection or to bump firewire up to such a speed (say 1600Mbps) that a USB2.0 bridge or for that matter, a PCI bridge, like the current IDE bridges becomes an acceptable work around.
My bet is that pro machines get 1600Mbps firewire since that will be the minimum for uncompressed HD DV (1920x1080@24P, 1200Mbps actually, but there is no such speed in the firewire spec). iMacs and iBooks may just stay where they are, unless it's just cheaper to use the same I/O controller for all their machines.