Most of apple's utilities have been updated without going brushed metal.
No single, hard and fast rule can be used to codify which apps should have which appearance.
<another car analogy>
That would be like trying to proclaim the proper dash board material for each category of vehicle on the road. At best, it would be an exercise in futility.
Please correct me if I should be wrong, but from the screenshots of Mac OS X Server, I see the Graphite colour scheme, but no brushed metal, per se. Might there exist some reason for this?
There's only one reason it doesn't. In Safari, the top controls (back, forward, etc.) are too close to the window titlebar. Since metal windows don't have a titlebar, there's no problem with this. Also there is the dark bevel that sinks the button in, but I'm assuming some sort of Safaricon for Panther may come out in time and that wouldn't be a problem anymore.
Maybe if the toolbar on top was moved a pixel down or so. I've tried to do this on OS 10.2's Safari, but it looked odd.
Why not give Safari a real toolbar? It shouldn't be that difficult, and it'd be easier to hide it and show it; customisation would be handled by the system-wide palette (and thus the View menu's items could be greatly simplified).
Very good point. That's what they should've done. I'm guessing it's because they wanted it to be metal, and metal toolbars aren't seen very often.
I aquafied Safari for the moment. I'm just using the "Firebird" theme I installed with Safaricon. I had to move some things down a little, but besides that, it looks fine. Kinda handy when you have the developer tools installed
Debrushing iChat is possible, but it'd look a little odd in some places. Like the message window, for instance, since the box where the messages are placed is too close to the top of the window.
what i don't understand is why apple rolled out the metal theme across all their new apps, yet they've obviously spent time making the developments to aqua in panther... why would they design the finder in metal and at the same time modify aqua?
all i can think is that they will allow a system-wide choice between metal or neu aqua, in the same way you can choose between aqua and graphite in jaguar
A systemwide choice would be good, but the problem with that is that every program's interface would have to be arranged so it works well under both. It wouldn't only be Apple's programs either; EVERY developer would have to design it like that, and that would put a burden on anybody that releases software.
Why not give Safari a real toolbar? It shouldn't be that difficult, and it'd be easier to hide it and show it; customisation would be handled by the system-wide palette (and thus the View menu's items could be greatly simplified).
I've said this before. This is very un-Apple. For example...I want my 'Home' widget to be before the back/forward buttons, not after it. I shoule be able to command-drag my widgets however I please, and there should be a 'customize toolbar' feature like in EVERY OTHER APP WITH A TOOLBAR! I would think that Apple would want to make safari as much like the finder as possible, with bookmarks and places on the left, and familiar Navigation icons on the top, but they don't. Hopefully this will change by Panther
They can make standard metal toolbars, no problem. The .Mac Backup app is at least one place where you have a standard toolbar, movable items and widget included, in a metal appearance.
I think they gave Safari a custom toolbar because NS Toolbar doesn't support resizable items like the address bar and google search bar. If this gets changed in Panther, they could very well release an update to Safari soon after Panther is released. (Then again, this might be the kind of thing they sit on until Safari 2.)
Maybe, at least, we could get reordering support so everything's not in a set place. I don't mind a lot, but it would be better to be able to rearrange them.
Ok I've said it before. Apple should get it and impliment themes in some fashion. Everytime I've said this some will say " No it's gotta be Aqua " or " I like metal " well that's the point. What looks good is truly in the eye of the beholder. Now the other argument against themes was that there would be so many crappy ones. Well that's also the thing about themes. If you don't like them you don't have to use them. You're not locked into someone else's idea of what looks good.
If you don't think people would go for it I have to site the popularity of Kalideoscope in OS 9.
Being locked into few choices for customizing the look of the OS on your computer always gives rise to discussions like you see on this thread.
I know SJ has a personal bias against this but I believe it's what his customers want. There's always a way they could develope it so the widgets and workability stay the same.
I really wish they'd apply some of that metal look to their keyboards, mice and displays! I am still shocked that Apple is shipping white and lucite input devices and displays with those gorgeous new systems. They sort of 'go' but not really. To make matters worse, the new keyboard is a bit ugly in that bucket style case and the USB ports are so conspicuous that the wires will be more noticeable. This is a bit too sloppy and inconsistent for Apple, so I hope they are just doing this until the 'real' input devices and displays are available.
Back on topic, I personally enjoy the brushed metal look in OS X. It breaks up the monotonous white throughout the OS which gets quite boring after a while. Perhaps this was one of the reasons why they made some apps with this look.
Also, what's the deal with the limited 'Aqua' or 'Graphite' color selections? Would it be that difficult to add other choices (tastefully done of course). Am I the only one who gets tired of all the blue and white? The graphite option is too blah for my taste. How about some Sage, Burnt Orange, Cranberry, etc.
Speaking of GUIs, looking that some of those Panther screen shots that Brad shared seems like Apple is getting a tad inconsistent with their icons throughout the OS as well. There doesn't seem to be an official type of OS X icon set that resemble one another. Some are cartoonish, others are photo-realistic and others are flat. Is this just because it's still in beta and these are the things they clean up before it goes gold? I think a set of icons that complement each others depth and color schemes (not the same, just consistent) would be neater and more attractive.
I personally use these icons with my XP box. Not everyone's cup of tea, but you know that all the icons sort of compliment each other and resemble and belong to this particular set. They look great in XP and I think a more glassier OS X version (perhaps toned down a bit) would look great on the Mac.
Also, what's the deal with the limited 'Aqua' or 'Graphite' color selections? Would it be that difficult to add other choices (tastefully done of course). Am I the only one who gets tired of all the blue and white? The graphite option is too blah for my taste. How about some Sage, Burnt Orange, Cranberry, etc.
You're not the only one. That limitation actually makes me sick, and they probably could just spend only just a little time to get the normal 20 back in. How do you drop from 20 variants to 2? Seems ridiculous. The interface is not customizable enough, IMO. We're pretty much forced to use what they give us, without much change. You can use the developer tools to change the metal to non-metal if you want (not in the Panther Finder most likely, however, but I wouldn't know). If they just make the variations now, they won't have to worry about it anymore. Either that, or give us the two choices plus a hue color option. I'd be satisfied with that. Sure, they're interface is great. But some people don't like staring at the same thing for so long, and they like changing it periodically.
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
Ok I've said it before. Apple should get it and impliment themes in some fashion. Everytime I've said this some will say " No it's gotta be Aqua " or " I like metal " well that's the point. What looks good is truly in the eye of the beholder. Now the other argument against themes was that there would be so many crappy ones. Well that's also the thing about themes. If you don't like them you don't have to use them. You're not locked into someone else's idea of what looks good.
If you don't think people would go for it I have to site the popularity of Kalideoscope in OS 9.
Being locked into few choices for customizing the look of the OS on your computer always gives rise to discussions like you see on this thread.
I know SJ has a personal bias against this but I believe it's what his customers want. There's always a way they could develope it so the widgets and workability stay the same.
Heck even OS 9 had more accent colors.
They should just implement themes. Either that, or they should (if you really hate Windows don't read this) do something like Windows 98 did, with being able to change literally ANYTHING to the color you wanted to change it to. This would allow a LOT of possibilities. Just give us that option and presets. That way, we won't complain unless we want something completely different, then we'd ask for theming.
Why would he have a bias against it? Just because he loves it doesn't mean everybody that uses it will. You have to get the point that not everybody will like a certain thing. That's why we invented preferences. Now maybe we should use them more everywhere where they can be used. The earlier it's done, the less we complain about it and the less we look into the system files to see how to change it ourselves. And base the interface off hues, not 100's of images! Maybe the system size would be cut down, and maybe even run faster. If Windows could do it (XP doesn't really do it now), then a Mac should be able to as well.
They should just implement themes. Either that, or they should (if you really hate Windows don't read this) do something like Windows 98 did, with being able to change literally ANYTHING to the color you wanted to change it to. This would allow a LOT of possibilities. Just give us that option and presets. That way, we won't complain unless we want something completely different, then we'd ask for theming.
(snip)
Themes are already implemented in OS X, just not in the same way they are in other OSs. There is Aqua, Brushed Metal, and the new "pro" thing. However, unlike other desktop environments (like Windows, KDE, Gnome), the developer decides what theme is to be applied to a program, not the user. In KDE for instance, the user is able to control pretty much every color & and the look of almost every widget. The problem is that its time consuming to tweak the colors so that all the text is visible and clear, and often themes that are user created and applied to a pre-existing application has weird visual glitches, especially when the program themed has custom widgets that don't fit. By giving control of theme choice to the developer alone, she can make sure everything fits visually, which is important for apple types 8D
Themes are already implemented in OS X, just not in the same way they are in other OSs. There is Aqua, Brushed Metal, and the new "pro" thing. However, unlike other desktop environments (like Windows, KDE, Gnome), the developer decides what theme is to be applied to a program, not the user. In KDE for instance, the user is able to control pretty much every color & and the look of almost every widget. The problem is that its time consuming to tweak the colors so that all the text is visible and clear, and often themes that are user created and applied to a pre-existing application has weird visual glitches, especially when the program themed has custom widgets that don't fit. By giving control of theme choice to the developer alone, she can make sure everything fits visually, which is important for apple types 8D
That's the heart of the argument right there. It's her idea of what looks right visually. They should give the user more freedom than that. The main reason different themes have glitches is because it never has been fully implimented in OS 9 or OS X. I don't have anything against a developer wanting their program to look a certain way but when it comes to the OS the user is what is important. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Comments
Originally posted by Anders
What is the latest released Apple software that didn´t have metal cover?
woah, i cant think of one realeased lately, Keynote?
No single, hard and fast rule can be used to codify which apps should have which appearance.
<another car analogy>
That would be like trying to proclaim the proper dash board material for each category of vehicle on the road. At best, it would be an exercise in futility.
Originally posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R
I've just de-brushed metaled Calculator, iChat and Safari.
Doesn't this look so much better?
No
Originally posted by chef ramen noodle
Mac OS X 10.4 Metalliqua
And Mac OS X 10.4.1 Sosumi
Barto
Originally posted by MacUsers
it does not look better at all, id prefer the brushed metal over that any day
Grrr......I quoted the wrong person. *edits*
Originally posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R
I've just de-brushed metaled Calculator, iChat and Safari.
Doesn't this look so much better?
That looks *much* better.
Originally posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R
I've just de-brushed metaled Calculator, iChat and Safari.
Doesn't this look so much better?
There's only one reason it doesn't. In Safari, the top controls (back, forward, etc.) are too close to the window titlebar. Since metal windows don't have a titlebar, there's no problem with this. Also there is the dark bevel that sinks the button in, but I'm assuming some sort of Safaricon for Panther may come out in time and that wouldn't be a problem anymore.
Maybe if the toolbar on top was moved a pixel down or so. I've tried to do this on OS 10.2's Safari, but it looked odd.
I aquafied Safari for the moment. I'm just using the "Firebird" theme I installed with Safaricon. I had to move some things down a little, but besides that, it looks fine. Kinda handy when you have the developer tools installed
Debrushing iChat is possible, but it'd look a little odd in some places. Like the message window, for instance, since the box where the messages are placed is too close to the top of the window.
all i can think is that they will allow a system-wide choice between metal or neu aqua, in the same way you can choose between aqua and graphite in jaguar
Originally posted by andrewm
Why not give Safari a real toolbar? It shouldn't be that difficult, and it'd be easier to hide it and show it; customisation would be handled by the system-wide palette (and thus the View menu's items could be greatly simplified).
I've said this before. This is very un-Apple. For example...I want my 'Home' widget to be before the back/forward buttons, not after it. I shoule be able to command-drag my widgets however I please, and there should be a 'customize toolbar' feature like in EVERY OTHER APP WITH A TOOLBAR! I would think that Apple would want to make safari as much like the finder as possible, with bookmarks and places on the left, and familiar Navigation icons on the top, but they don't. Hopefully this will change by Panther
I think they gave Safari a custom toolbar because NS Toolbar doesn't support resizable items like the address bar and google search bar. If this gets changed in Panther, they could very well release an update to Safari soon after Panther is released. (Then again, this might be the kind of thing they sit on until Safari 2.)
If you don't think people would go for it I have to site the popularity of Kalideoscope in OS 9.
Being locked into few choices for customizing the look of the OS on your computer always gives rise to discussions like you see on this thread.
I know SJ has a personal bias against this but I believe it's what his customers want. There's always a way they could develope it so the widgets and workability stay the same.
Heck even OS 9 had more accent colors.
Back on topic, I personally enjoy the brushed metal look in OS X. It breaks up the monotonous white throughout the OS which gets quite boring after a while. Perhaps this was one of the reasons why they made some apps with this look.
Also, what's the deal with the limited 'Aqua' or 'Graphite' color selections? Would it be that difficult to add other choices (tastefully done of course). Am I the only one who gets tired of all the blue and white? The graphite option is too blah for my taste. How about some Sage, Burnt Orange, Cranberry, etc.
Speaking of GUIs, looking that some of those Panther screen shots that Brad shared seems like Apple is getting a tad inconsistent with their icons throughout the OS as well. There doesn't seem to be an official type of OS X icon set that resemble one another. Some are cartoonish, others are photo-realistic and others are flat. Is this just because it's still in beta and these are the things they clean up before it goes gold? I think a set of icons that complement each others depth and color schemes (not the same, just consistent) would be neater and more attractive.
I personally use these icons with my XP box. Not everyone's cup of tea, but you know that all the icons sort of compliment each other and resemble and belong to this particular set. They look great in XP and I think a more glassier OS X version (perhaps toned down a bit) would look great on the Mac.
Main Orion icon sets (the cobolt is what I use):
http://www.stardock.com/products/iconpackager/orion.asp
Originally posted by Patchouli
Also, what's the deal with the limited 'Aqua' or 'Graphite' color selections? Would it be that difficult to add other choices (tastefully done of course). Am I the only one who gets tired of all the blue and white? The graphite option is too blah for my taste. How about some Sage, Burnt Orange, Cranberry, etc.
You're not the only one. That limitation actually makes me sick, and they probably could just spend only just a little time to get the normal 20 back in. How do you drop from 20 variants to 2? Seems ridiculous. The interface is not customizable enough, IMO. We're pretty much forced to use what they give us, without much change. You can use the developer tools to change the metal to non-metal if you want (not in the Panther Finder most likely, however, but I wouldn't know). If they just make the variations now, they won't have to worry about it anymore. Either that, or give us the two choices plus a hue color option. I'd be satisfied with that. Sure, they're interface is great. But some people don't like staring at the same thing for so long, and they like changing it periodically.
Originally posted by jimmac
Ok I've said it before. Apple should get it and impliment themes in some fashion. Everytime I've said this some will say " No it's gotta be Aqua " or " I like metal " well that's the point. What looks good is truly in the eye of the beholder. Now the other argument against themes was that there would be so many crappy ones. Well that's also the thing about themes. If you don't like them you don't have to use them. You're not locked into someone else's idea of what looks good.
If you don't think people would go for it I have to site the popularity of Kalideoscope in OS 9.
Being locked into few choices for customizing the look of the OS on your computer always gives rise to discussions like you see on this thread.
I know SJ has a personal bias against this but I believe it's what his customers want. There's always a way they could develope it so the widgets and workability stay the same.
Heck even OS 9 had more accent colors.
They should just implement themes. Either that, or they should (if you really hate Windows don't read this) do something like Windows 98 did, with being able to change literally ANYTHING to the color you wanted to change it to. This would allow a LOT of possibilities. Just give us that option and presets. That way, we won't complain unless we want something completely different, then we'd ask for theming.
Why would he have a bias against it? Just because he loves it doesn't mean everybody that uses it will. You have to get the point that not everybody will like a certain thing. That's why we invented preferences. Now maybe we should use them more everywhere where they can be used.
Originally posted by jwill
(snip)
They should just implement themes. Either that, or they should (if you really hate Windows don't read this) do something like Windows 98 did, with being able to change literally ANYTHING to the color you wanted to change it to. This would allow a LOT of possibilities. Just give us that option and presets. That way, we won't complain unless we want something completely different, then we'd ask for theming.
(snip)
Themes are already implemented in OS X, just not in the same way they are in other OSs. There is Aqua, Brushed Metal, and the new "pro" thing. However, unlike other desktop environments (like Windows, KDE, Gnome), the developer decides what theme is to be applied to a program, not the user. In KDE for instance, the user is able to control pretty much every color & and the look of almost every widget. The problem is that its time consuming to tweak the colors so that all the text is visible and clear, and often themes that are user created and applied to a pre-existing application has weird visual glitches, especially when the program themed has custom widgets that don't fit. By giving control of theme choice to the developer alone, she can make sure everything fits visually, which is important for apple types 8D
Originally posted by owenc
Themes are already implemented in OS X, just not in the same way they are in other OSs. There is Aqua, Brushed Metal, and the new "pro" thing. However, unlike other desktop environments (like Windows, KDE, Gnome), the developer decides what theme is to be applied to a program, not the user. In KDE for instance, the user is able to control pretty much every color & and the look of almost every widget. The problem is that its time consuming to tweak the colors so that all the text is visible and clear, and often themes that are user created and applied to a pre-existing application has weird visual glitches, especially when the program themed has custom widgets that don't fit. By giving control of theme choice to the developer alone, she can make sure everything fits visually, which is important for apple types 8D
That's the heart of the argument right there. It's her idea of what looks right visually. They should give the user more freedom than that. The main reason different themes have glitches is because it never has been fully implimented in OS 9 or OS X. I don't have anything against a developer wanting their program to look a certain way but when it comes to the OS the user is what is important. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.