Dusty Baker is not a very smart man. (Don't wanna get SUED ya know)

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Overmanaging again...flashbacks of game 6...exhausts his bench with a 5-1 lead...now in a hole 6-7 in the 9th, Good job, man. Used Gagne in the 8th instead of Smoltz. So many things...



Night game, maybe he should have used more light-skinned players...
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 54
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    AGGGGHHHHH, 3 MORE FEET...NOOOO.



    Here, Russ, have the game ball...
  • Reply 2 of 54
    The subject of this thread should be changed to Bud Selig is a retard. Attaching any ounce of significance to the all-star game is insane. Why can't you reward the team with the best record? Every other sport does it, why can't baseball?



    Eugene, if I were managing, I'd put Gagne 8th and Smoltz 9th. To me it's the correct call, Gagne just didn't have his stuff.
  • Reply 3 of 54
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ironchef82

    The subject of this thread should be changed to Bud Selig is a retard. Attaching any ounce of significance to the all-star game is insane. Why can't you reward the team with the best record? Every other sport does it, why can't baseball?



    Eugene, if I were managing, I'd put Gagne 8th and Smoltz 9th. To me it's the correct call, Gagne just didn't have his stuff.




    I think since there are still major divisions between the AL and NL, the best team of record shouldn't necessarily deserve to get homefield rights. You only play 25 or so games out of 162 against the other league.



    But yes, Bud Selig should be faulted too. At least if homefield is to be decided by the All-Star game, fan votes shouldn't be used at all. Players in their respective leagues should vote for each other. I'm not particularly against it, but it does need some minor issues sorted out.



    As for Gagne and Smoltz. Being an avid Dodger anti-fan, I know Gagne doesn't do well pitching outside the 9th. Also, the AL got runs in the previous 2 innings...you need a guy that can stop the bleeding, and Smoltz has the better OPP average. PLUS Smoltz is on a contending team and the Dodgers are obviously going to go down in flames in the NL West. :P



    Still, being from an NL city, the most frustrating thing of all is how Dusty had to be fan/player friendly and pull the people who gave him a 5-1 lead.
  • Reply 4 of 54
    I was listening to the ESPN radio broadcast and Dave "Soup" Campbell (an excellent color guy on Sunday Night Baseball), said that the reason the home field alternated before is that booking hotel accommodations is a nightmare. However, the NBA and NHL do it, so I wonder what the difference is there (shrug). I think the reason that makes sense to ME is that the leagues use different rules (DH vs. no DH). I am one of the purists who think that the DH is dumb. And I live in an American League city. Playing AL style baseball in our "lyrical little bandbox" is what has killed the Sox all these years. Defense, speed, and pitching would have served us much better then year after year of fielding right-handed, power hitting line-ups. I'm rambling now...as you were.
  • Reply 5 of 54
    That whole "booking hotel rooms" nightmare is complete BS. Ok, yeah, I'm sure it's a pain logistically, but every other major sports league pulls it off and they don't complain. It's just what they have to do, so they do it.



    I still stick by my statement about awarding home field to the best record. Yes, schedules are unbalanced, but isn't that the way it is in other sports? NFL you mostly play within your division and conference... only 4 out of 16 games are inter-conference, I think. NBA and NHL also play more intra-conference than inter-conference games I believe. Yes, there are some pretty major differences between the AL and NL games, but you gotta reward the best team no matter what. Regardless, even the previous system of arbitrary switching of home field advantage between AL and NL is better than this crap.



    Ok, this is mostly me venting about the NL losing, cause like you Eugene, I'm from an NL city (Atlanta). Ironic that I'm arguing for home field to the best record when if you go back to 95, Cleveland had 10 more wins than the braves but we got home field and won games 1, 2, and 6. But hey, I think it's the right thing to do.
  • Reply 6 of 54
    _ alliance __ alliance _ Posts: 2,070member
    gagne is a piece of sh*t.





    dont fault dusty--overmanaging isnt a big deal in the all-star game. fault the pitchers who blew the game, namely wagner, and especially gagne.



    and i wanted to see dontrelle too... \
  • Reply 7 of 54
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ironchef82

    Ok, this is mostly me venting about the NL losing, cause like you Eugene, I'm from an NL city (Atlanta). Ironic that I'm arguing for home field to the best record when if you go back to 95, Cleveland had 10 more wins than the braves but we got home field and won games 1, 2, and 6. But hey, I think it's the right thing to do.



    One more thing, aren't you miffed that Smoltz didn't even get to throw a single pitch? Man, that'd really piss me off. I would have thrown up Wagner, Gagne and Smoltz in the 6th, 7th and 8th, then throw whichever pitchers they had left in the 9th.



    But still, the biggest problem was what SF fans have come to know as Dustiny...
  • Reply 8 of 54
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by _ alliance _

    gagne is a piece of sh*t.





    dont fault dusty--overmanaging isnt a big deal in the all-star game. fault the pitchers who blew the game, namely wagner, and especially gagne.



    and i wanted to see dontrelle too... \




    Managing *was* a big deal today, and it'll be a big deal next year too.



    I wanted to see Smoltz, Dontrelle and others too, but eh. Wagner only gave up one run, but Gagne's "I don't really care" quote rubs me the wrong way. Yeah, the Dodgers aren't going to the play-offs this year...don't blow it for the rest of the league!
  • Reply 9 of 54
    It's nice to see that the Mariners will have home field for the World Series. Even if they do suck ass at home cause they can't score a run to save their lives "due to the glare".



    Poor Blalock. It's back to oblivion and meaningless games for you. At least he made the most of his chance though. Perhaps the Rangers might have a good young and relatively cheap lineup in two years and he'll get to play games that matter. Now if they can just find a pitcher or ten.



    I don't necessarily think the home field is that big of a deal anyway. Home field team is 18-17 in game 7s. Not a biggie. Depends on how the DH situation works out for specific teams but it really isn't that big a deal IMO.



    As far as Eugene's comment that "Still, being from an NL city, the most frustrating thing of all is how Dusty had to be fan/player friendly and pull the people who gave him a 5-1 lead." I cannot say I agree Eugene. Let's not forget that 3 of the 6 runs were both scored (1 by Furcal and 2 by A. Jones) and knocked in (all 3 by A. Jones) by the "2nd team". That's the same as the production that you got from the first team which went 4 for 19 whereas the replacements went 7 of 17. I suppose you could say Baker should have stuck with the best player at each position and especially Helton since he doinked one. But then again by that same line of thinking Edmonds would have still been in center as he is a superior hitter (1.066 to .878 OPS) to Jones by a good margin and then the probability is overwhelming against getting the same production that Jones gave with the double and homer. It cuts both ways and both "teams" produced equally. In my mind you can second guess it on principle but not on the way it turned out cause the starters hadn't been any more productive then the reserves turned out to be. Once you factor in the desire which is still there to try to get as many players in as possible I think he did fine with the position player moves.



    Gagne didn't work out but he is a perfectly reasonable choice for the 8th. I doubt you would find many other managers who would have put Smoltz in during the 8th, unless you are working off the premise that he would have pitched more than one inning which is not gonna happen for a closer in an all-star game. Now Dusty may still be a retard for others reasons and it sounds like you're still pissed about him from his Giant days.
  • Reply 10 of 54
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Quote:

    Once you factor in the desire which is still there to try to get as many players in as possible I think he did fine with the position player moves.



    OBP and all the other stats make a huge difference. Ya gotta read Moneyball. While Andrew Jones did produce, probability sides with the starters. Sciosia knew that. He left Anderson, Martinez, Rodriguez, etc. in there longer than Dusty left any of his guys in there. Sure, the cards played nicely for the Andruw Jones move, but it's still a numbers game in the end.



    Quote:

    Now Dusty may still be a retard for others reasons and it sounds like you're still pissed about him from his Giant days



    Probably.



    The best option would have been moving those three closers into the 6th, 7th and 8th innings, then throwing the rest of the bullpen at the batters in the 9th. Put a lefty against a lefty and so on...stick to the numbers/stats game.
  • Reply 11 of 54
    Quote:

    Originally posted by VanDeWaals

    ... I am one of the purists who think that the DH is dumb...



    The DH is dumb. Astroturf is dumb. Baseball played under a dome is dumb. The Wild Card sucks. The World Series stretching into November is dumb. And World Series games that start late and end sometime after midnight are dumb. Let's see. Did I miss anything?



    The people who are running baseball are morons. They seem to be intent on doing everything but the right thing for the game.
  • Reply 12 of 54
    brbr Posts: 8,395member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox

    The DH is dumb. Astroturf is dumb. Baseball played under a dome is dumb. The Wild Card sucks. The World Series stretching into November is dumb. And World Series games that start late and end sometime after midnight are dumb. Let's see. Did I miss anything?



    The people who are running baseball are morons. They seem to be intent on doing everything but the right thing for the game.




    No DH, no Edgar. Sorry, not dumb.



    New field turf is good. Not dumb.



    Retractable domes kick ass. Not dumb.



    World Series in November? Feh, why not? Ooh, then it can't be called the october classic anymore...big ****ing deal.



    No, you didn't miss anything. You missed everything.
  • Reply 13 of 54
    fran441fran441 Posts: 3,715member
    Oh yeah, the All Star Game was last night, wasn't it?



    I boycotted it because MLB caved to FOX and put Roger Clemens on the team. It's not just that he was on the team, it was the way he was put on to the team.



    Barry Zito is sitting in the clubhouse and is even told, "We'll make sure you face more than one batter this time", and after the meeting is over, is hounded by the media asking why he won't play. I'm sure this 'deal' had nothing to do with the A's being up for sale or anything.



    Also, I was at the Atlantic League All Star game a few weeks ago in Nashua and it was great! Rickey Henderson played and was the MVP and there were scouts watching the game. Just a few days later, Rickey was signed by the Dodgers.



    The other players to come from the Atlantic League this year? Jose Lima is one, and Curtis Pride (who played for my hometown team the Nashua Pride) is now on the Yankees (and apparently a favorite of George Steinbrenner).



    I love the Red Sox and everything, but MLB makes STUPID decisions. It's very apparent to me that Bud Selig should still be selling used cars.
  • Reply 14 of 54
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BR



    World Series in November? Feh, why not? Ooh, then it can't be called the october classic anymore...big ****ing deal.




    Why ask the question if you've already decided you have the answer?
  • Reply 15 of 54
    i don't know, i felt like i was watching a competitive game that meant something, not a bunch a millionaires playing grabass like usual.



    dusty had a lead and he depleted his bench, it may come back to haunt. (but probably not dusty and my cubs)

    i think it makes a compelling story line, in october everyone will be talking about this all-star game, and next year's game may be played even closer to the vest.
  • Reply 16 of 54
    Man where do all these bitter baseball fans come from? You guys need some love.



    Quote:

    I boycotted it because MLB caved to FOX and put Roger Clemens on the team. It's not just that he was on the team, it was the way he was put on to the team.



    Typical Red Sox fan. It has been seven years and Duquette is the one who should be getting the enmity anyway. A shame that Red Sox fans have to playa hate on one of the two most important players in that club's history. And no the few years he spent in Boston do not make Ruth more important to Red Sox history than Clemens. Clemens is the greatest pitcher of his generation and widely presumed to be retiring after this year. His numbers aren't fantastic this year but they're still fairly good. And since he is a pitcher he can't be elected even if all of the fans (outside of Boston) want to see him play even past his prime ala Ripken who was elected for years after he went into decline. It was entirely reasonable decision.



    As far as Zito, he has admitted that Macha told him he would not pitch on Sunday after he threw that day. By his own account he protested as much and then just assumed that by saying he want to pitch he was going to be allowed and called upon to pitch. He was the only one who had delusions that he was gonna come back one day later and pitch. This was as much Zito just being pigheaded as it was a communications breakdown. Besides, Roger Clemens present or not, given that the game didn't go extra innings Zito would not have gotten into the game anyway, really Clemens took an inning from someone who might have pitched, ie someone other than Zito.



    Oh and Curtis Pride sucks. Well he did have one decent season in Detroit but he is a below average major league outfielder. And Jose Lima is a disaster waiting to happen. Good for him that he has comeback but he'll meltdown at some point, if not this season then surely next.



    I do agree however that Selig should be selling used cars. That baseball came to be run by a man whose franchise is the horsehide equivalent of the LA Clippers speaks volumes about the baseball owners.



    I don't see how you can really complain much about domes and astroturf these days. It is something that baseball has obviously tried to correct. Which teams still have domes?



    Tampa Bay has a dome.



    Minnesota but they were working on blackmailing their city into building a new ballpark.



    Toronto has astroturf.



    KC has gone back to grass. Seattle has gone from the Kingdome to an outdoor grass stadium. Philadelphia is moving from a shitty field turf formerly astroturf stadium to a grass stadium next year IIRC. Montreal has at most one more year left in existence. Houston dumped the Astrodome for a outdoor grass stadium. St. Louis went back to grass. Cincinnati has a new grass stadium rather than the previous shitty astroturf one. Pittsburgh has a new grass stadium rather than the previous shitty astroturf one.



    I dunno. Unless I am missing something there are only two domes left, one of which may be replaced fairly soon. And then Toronto has astroturf which seems somewhat understandable given the climate. And the skydome is a fairly nice if not outstanding stadium. Cleanest stadium in baseball that I've seen as well. Other than that I think the other 27 teams will all be on grass by next year if Montreal winds up in San Juan full time for a year. If Minnesota can pull off a ballpark then the only truly shitty stadium will be Tropicana Field. Retractable domes own, I'll take the occasional game with roof overhead over a rainout any day.



    Games ending after midnight is no better than games starting before 6 PM before people can get home from work. You have to have one or the other when you have a 3+ hour game and a 3 hour difference in time zones. There is no good solution to that problem AFAICT for both the Eastern and Pacific Time zones.



    I can understand traditionalists not liking the wild card. But personally I don't have a problem with it. The wild card teams in both leagues this year will surely be better teams than the winners of either Central Division. I don't see why Oakland at 54-39 or Boston at 55-38 should not make the playoffs while Kansas City at 51-41 should just because they play in the shittiest division in baseball. Note that KC is 29-9 against the AL Central, 13-24 against the rest of the AL. If they win their division and say Oakland doesn't that won't be a reflection on how good the two teams are, rather it shows the far easier AL Central opponents that KC gets to beat up on with the unbalanced schedule. And even with that far easier schedule they still have a worse record at this point than the other two second place teams. Wild Card is the only reasonable way to make it work anyway with 3 divisions.



    I suppose that one could argue for just two divisions but that would force the western teams into even more travel. Or even one giant league ala pre-1969 but then again you would have to go back to a balanced schedule and the amount of travel would soar too much. Plus then you would have a lot more West Coast teams playing on the road at 4PM and East Coast teams starting road games at 10PM. Not good.
  • Reply 17 of 54
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Fran441



    I love the Red Sox and everything, but MLB makes STUPID decisions. It's very apparent to me that Bud Selig should still be selling used cars.




    bullshit



    the clemens move was the ONLY RIGHT move selig has made lately



    Future hall of famer, last season, arguable the best pitcher in the last 15 years, won his 300th game this year, struck out his 4000th batter this year and no other Yankee pitcher was selected despite several deserving to be...... Clemens belonged there so don't bitch about Zito getting bumped. Asshole wanted to pitch on 1 day's rest..... for what?



    give me a break..... the selections this year were pathetic. And this representative from every team crap has to end.
  • Reply 18 of 54
    i think when everything is cut and dried and all the votes are tabulated and the rosters set, they're should be a commissioner's pick, for whatever vanity reason, to be used as he or she sees fit.
  • Reply 19 of 54
    fran441fran441 Posts: 3,715member
    Quote:

    bullshit



    the clemens move was the ONLY RIGHT move selig has made lately



    Future hall of famer, last season, arguable the best pitcher in the last 15 years, won his 300th game this year, struck out his 4000th batter this year and no other Yankee pitcher was selected despite several deserving to be...... Clemens belonged there so don't bitch about Zito getting bumped. Asshole wanted to pitch on 1 day's rest..... for what?



    give me a break..... the selections this year were pathetic. And this representative from every team crap has to end.



    LOL. I've got NO problem putting future HOF on the team. I don't care if he's on the team on the merits that he's going to the Hall of Fame. But that's not what Bud Selig wanted to do. His goal was to make the game COUNT because he made a joke of the All Star game last year. So if the game was to COUNT, then under his plan, future HOF would not be a consideration.



    Clemens is having a mediocre year. Yes he got 300 and yes he got 4000. That being said, he is 8-6 and Zito deserved the spot more than he did.



    If you're going to make it so future Hall of Famers get an automatic spot on the team, then do it that way. I actually want them to do it that way. Leave room for the guys who deserve to be on the team 'one last time'. But to kick a player who is having a better season off of the team for somewhat bogus reasons is just stupid.



    It was Selig taking the manager's decision and saying, "No, you can't be here, we want this other guy who I think deserves it more instead" and basically wasting Zito's time. Is there a reason they could not have both been on the dang team?



    Seriously, the decisions that MLB are making are terrible. Interleague play is foolish, the All Star game is still a joke, and ticket prices continue to sky rocket as attendence continues to fall. Way to go MLB.
  • Reply 20 of 54
    Something I really wanted to happen last night:



    Game goes into extra innings, all the pitchers are used, still a tie... then what do you do? You can't just call the game a tie, then who gets home field?



    What happened last year was a rarity, and there were steps taken this year to reduce the chances of it happening again, but look, it *will* happen again, sooner or later, maybe not until 50 years from now, but baseball games do sometimes go into a lot of extra innings. So there's a slight possibility of a game that could turn into a marathon one, but forcing a resolution out of it to determine what league gets home field when managers are using other team's players, for a game that doesn't help your own team in the standings, etc etc.. it just doesn't make sense. At some point, just call it a tie and go home.



    Bud, just hand in your resignation letter right now. You've made the game terrible. You and FOX.



    At least the home run derby this year was surprisingly much more entertaining than previous years.



    and Eugene: sure I would have loved to see Smoltz pitch, but I still think going with Gagne was fine by me (at least until he blew it). It's too close to call between the two, either pitcher would probably work fine in the 8th or 9th.



    There's another thing too, reading on espn.com today saying that Wagner just couldn't pitch in to batters cause after all, this is an all-star game, so most players didn't have the on-field mentality that they usually have in the regular season. If this all-star game now counts for something, then the game should be played as if it were game 7 of the world series. Starters stay in, starting pitchers go as long as they can, etc. Very contradictory rewarding a very significant thing to an insignificant/exhibition game.
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