"ok hi all. this is my conundrum. I HAD an iBook 600/384/20/COMBO...which i sold to someone for 1400, with the hope that i would buy the new 700 mhz combo with a 40GB HD. i did it cause i wanted more speed and a bigger hd. then a friend of mine told me that he may be able to help me get a good deal on the tibooks through his company. so now as i was ready to buy an 800mhz tibook, i'm afraid of apple releasing a new version. I'm going to buy one regardless, i just don't know if i should wait till after macworld or buy it now?!?
please help! thoughts?"
Personally I am waiting until after Macworld maybe even until San Fransico if nothing is announced at NY. I can wait that long to have a better machine. I'm waiting no longer than that though! <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
I'm currently without a portable (which sucks), but I have a G4PM400 at home and a G4PM933 at work, so I can wait and deal without it (for a little while atleast. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> )
he could buy a bottom-o-the-line new iBook to tide him over.
Then when a new iMac/PM comes out he could buy either the high-end iMac or the low-end PM and have two macs for the price of one Ti (with DVD-burning to boot)
Or he could buy a PC, which is looking like a better option by the minute.
all good ideas. The way i see it right now is that the iBook is a great machine. I'm already in withdrawal. OSX is ridiculous. it works so well and it is only a matter of time for most software to come it's way. Im a pc user too, but my first machine was a mac..and the iBook was by far the best mac i have ever owned. plug in a live ethernet cable to an OSX mac and you're done. it's just that simple!
anyway. of course i'd love the size of the iBook with the perf of the tibook..plus a superdrive. is that too much to ask? *sigh*
ok i guess i'll wait unless someone has a better idea.
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>he could buy a bottom-o-the-line new iBook to tide him over.
Then when a new iMac/PM comes out he could buy either the high-end iMac or the low-end PM and have two macs for the price of one Ti (with DVD-burning to boot)
Or he could buy a PC, which is looking like a better option by the minute.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>he could buy a bottom-o-the-line new iBook to tide him over.
Then when a new iMac/PM comes out he could buy either the high-end iMac or the low-end PM and have two macs for the price of one Ti (with DVD-burning to boot)
Or he could buy a PC, which is looking like a better option by the minute.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Although it makes sense to all of us and it is a logical decision, lets remember we are talking about Apple here. Their history of logical decisions hasn't been good. So unfortunately it's about a 50% chance of happening soon <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Just trying to be realistic. I have been diappointed to many times (not all the time ) right before a Macworld. Everyone expects more than Apple can offer majority of the time. Let's just cross our fingers and hope for the best iBook ever! (iBook G4 )
Seems to me that Apple would have to redesign the entire iBook mobo and cooling system.
Remember when Apple switched from a G3 Powerbook to a G4 Powerbook? It took a LOT of engineering, and the Ti uses an entirely different cooling system. Apple cannot simply drop a G4 in the iBook.
As long as Apple is going to design a new mobo for the iBook to accommodate a G4, then I see them offering the G4 across the line, not only in one model. It would be cheaper for Apple to use the same mobo in all iBooks, instead of supporting two different mobos.
Apple doesn't normally offer special editions with new mobos, their special editions simply have more RAM and maybe a few more MHz and a larger HD. Maybe a different LCD display. But the SE parts would all be interchangeable with the regular versions. A G4 is NOT interchangeable with a G3 in a laptop.
"Seems to me that Apple would have to redesign the entire iBook mobo and cooling system.
Remember when Apple switched from a G3 Powerbook to a G4 Powerbook? It took a LOT of engineering, and the Ti uses an entirely different cooling system. Apple cannot simply drop a G4 in the iBook.
As long as Apple is going to design a new mobo for the iBook to accommodate a G4, then I see them offering the G4 across the line, not only in one model. It would be cheaper for Apple to use the same mobo in all iBooks, instead of supporting two different mobos.
Apple doesn't normally offer special editions with new mobos, their special editions simply have more RAM and maybe a few more MHz and a larger HD. Maybe a different LCD display. But the SE parts would all be interchangeable with the regular versions. A G4 is NOT interchangeable with a G3 in a laptop. "
Very true about all thee above. I really can't see Apple upgrading the entire line to the G4 though.
It would be something if Apple dropped the G3 iMac and then offered the entire iBook line as G4 making the Apple product line G4 or higher! That would be sweet! Consumer perception wise anyways! It's not going to happen though at Macworld NY anyways. Too much too soon <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
<strong>Don't get me wrong, I love the iBook too! The 12" more than the 14". As for target consumers look at the desktop format. The iBook I would compare to the eMac or lower CRT iMacs. Then you have the PowerMac G4 which compares to the Powerbook G4. So what about the target consumer for the New iMac LCD??? This isn't a entry user, or a pro. It's someone right in the middle. There is a definate market for a G4 iBook! Don't tell me there isn't a market for this.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think you are correct about the new iMac and its positioning. Perhaps we'll see the current iBooks remain G3, 12", 700Mhz. And a new iBook SE (or whatever): 14"-15" (1280 x 1024), G4, 800MHz. Positioned as a "tweener" between iBook and TiBook. But then again...how is this different from a low end TiBook? There is a $700 gap between these two. Diffs? Screen size and resolution. Video/Graphics chip. G4/speed.
P.S. I only hope they don't start making the product line TOO complex.
<strong>I only hope they don't start making the product line TOO complex.</strong><hr></blockquote>This illustrates the need to move away from a quadrant theory into a sextant instead. A Low-end. A Mid-range. A high-end. On the desktop space, we'd have the eMac, iMac G4, and PowerMac G4/G5 respectively. On the portable desktop space, we'd have the iBook, ??? (PowerBook Lite), PowerBook G4.
People who think there's going to be a G4 in an iBook are high. I think we should be thinking from the other end...how can we make the PowerBook smaller, but maintain it's 1-inch thickness and G4 and gear it towards the prosumer. That's the angle we should be looking from IMHO.
[quote] P.S. I only hope they don't start making the product line TOO complex.<hr></blockquote>
It already is. Look at the G3 iMac and eMac! Who in the world would by a G3 iMac now that the eMac exist! The G3 iMac is going to disappear real soon. The Desktop range at it currently stands is a big mess! Some definate restructure needs to happen soon! Hopefully we'll have answers at Macworld next month <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
[quote] People who think there's going to be a G4 in an iBook are high. I think we should be thinking from the other end...how can we make the PowerBook smaller, but maintain it's 1-inch thickness and G4 and gear it towards the prosumer. That's the angle we should be looking from IMHO. <hr></blockquote>
Yeah I would buy that
Either way, a G4 iBook or a 12" G4 Powerbook I would buy it in a heartbeat! There's a hole in the structure and Apple should fill it soon <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
<strong>all good ideas. The way i see it right now is that the iBook is a great machine. I'm already in withdrawal. OSX is ridiculous. it works so well and it is only a matter of time for most software to come it's way. Im a pc user too, but my first machine was a mac..and the iBook was by far the best mac i have ever owned. plug in a live ethernet cable to an OSX mac and you're done. it's just that simple!</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you loved the iBook so much, why not get the one you intended to get?
If you're willing to spring for the TiBook, I'd get one now. The prices might be lower next year, but that's six months with no laptop! Besides, the latest rev of the TiBook is sweet.
It's up to you. I suppose it would also depend on just what kind of deal your friend can get you on a Ti.
you're right. i need to make the decision. there will always be a newer better machine around the bend or on the horizon... the real question is what is the opportunity cost of waiting?
as much i loved the iBook, the tiBook is the way to go. bigger, better faster...plus the more i thought about it, they won't revamp the tiBook in July as they just did. also if i can get a deal on a new one too, i have my answer.
they'll save that for macworld SF. this time it will just be the desktops. thanks everyone!
I have to put in that a G4 iBook makes no sense to me in the scheme apple has going with the consumer laptop line. The PPC 750fx that IBM just released and i believe is in the new iBook is supposed to be going to 1 Ghz soon right? As well, it can run on a 200 MHz bus (what ram can you use here? rdram that runs at half speed like 133 or 100 in a 66 MHz machine? any help would be great) add those together with R&D dollars spent, and a business plan that has built a 4 billion bank book and it would seem not only wise but good for them to offer a 1 Ghz G3 running on a 200 MHz bus with fast ram at a low price, with good size and mid level grpahics. That would put the iBook well in line with "consumer level" PC laptops for both spec and price.
Will it happen at MWNY, nope unless the TiBook magically jumps to 1.2 Ghz and 1 Ghz.
As an aside and comparison, I am more than happy with my G3 iBook (first gen 500/66), the only thing it won't do well for me is wolfenstein MP ... but any laptop gets to hot for a recliner with it anyway (tried a dell C600 1Ghz 16 meg video card, it's playable but :eek: ... put it On the table!)
<strong>I'd rather see a 14" TiBook than a 14" G4 iBook...pairing a beautiful SXGA (or even UXGA...but that's not Apple-like) screen with a sleek Titanium case would win the respect of geeks worldwide.
By using a 14" screen in a LE PowerBook they could reduce the footprint and (maybe) the weight a slight bit. However, it would be extremely complicated to shrink the already extremely well packed components in the TiBook even more and also, the SXGA screen might produce more heat and would perhaps suck more power than the 15.2"...not sure about that though, probably depends on what screen they use.
Oh well. The TiBook is a winner as it is. </strong><hr></blockquote>
As far as RAM goes, I think Xserve has given us the answer. Whenever the cost of DDR becomes less than the cost of SDR***, then all Apple products will transition to DDR266 (minimum) whether or not the PPC part in use supports it directly.
Still a 200Mhz FSB bus on a 266DDR memory bus would be a damned sight better than anything in Apple's line-up at the moment.
***just like DIMMS eventually became cheaper than SIMMS. As RAM manufacturers transition to DDR, SDR prices will rise by comparison. Of course by then, Mot will probably have incentive to support DDR directly too.
Comments
please help! thoughts?"
Personally I am waiting until after Macworld maybe even until San Fransico if nothing is announced at NY. I can wait that long to have a better machine. I'm waiting no longer than that though! <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
I'm currently without a portable (which sucks), but I have a G4PM400 at home and a G4PM933 at work, so I can wait and deal without it (for a little while atleast. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> )
Then when a new iMac/PM comes out he could buy either the high-end iMac or the low-end PM and have two macs for the price of one Ti (with DVD-burning to boot)
Or he could buy a PC, which is looking like a better option by the minute.
anyway. of course i'd love the size of the iBook with the perf of the tibook..plus a superdrive. is that too much to ask? *sigh*
ok i guess i'll wait unless someone has a better idea.
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>he could buy a bottom-o-the-line new iBook to tide him over.
Then when a new iMac/PM comes out he could buy either the high-end iMac or the low-end PM and have two macs for the price of one Ti (with DVD-burning to boot)
Or he could buy a PC, which is looking like a better option by the minute.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>he could buy a bottom-o-the-line new iBook to tide him over.
Then when a new iMac/PM comes out he could buy either the high-end iMac or the low-end PM and have two macs for the price of one Ti (with DVD-burning to boot)
Or he could buy a PC, which is looking like a better option by the minute.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yea, buy a PC it's faster cheaper and.....
Although it makes sense to all of us and it is a logical decision, lets remember we are talking about Apple here. Their history of logical decisions hasn't been good. So unfortunately it's about a 50% chance of happening soon <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Just trying to be realistic. I have been diappointed to many times (not all the time
Remember when Apple switched from a G3 Powerbook to a G4 Powerbook? It took a LOT of engineering, and the Ti uses an entirely different cooling system. Apple cannot simply drop a G4 in the iBook.
As long as Apple is going to design a new mobo for the iBook to accommodate a G4, then I see them offering the G4 across the line, not only in one model. It would be cheaper for Apple to use the same mobo in all iBooks, instead of supporting two different mobos.
Apple doesn't normally offer special editions with new mobos, their special editions simply have more RAM and maybe a few more MHz and a larger HD. Maybe a different LCD display. But the SE parts would all be interchangeable with the regular versions. A G4 is NOT interchangeable with a G3 in a laptop.
"Seems to me that Apple would have to redesign the entire iBook mobo and cooling system.
Remember when Apple switched from a G3 Powerbook to a G4 Powerbook? It took a LOT of engineering, and the Ti uses an entirely different cooling system. Apple cannot simply drop a G4 in the iBook.
As long as Apple is going to design a new mobo for the iBook to accommodate a G4, then I see them offering the G4 across the line, not only in one model. It would be cheaper for Apple to use the same mobo in all iBooks, instead of supporting two different mobos.
Apple doesn't normally offer special editions with new mobos, their special editions simply have more RAM and maybe a few more MHz and a larger HD. Maybe a different LCD display. But the SE parts would all be interchangeable with the regular versions. A G4 is NOT interchangeable with a G3 in a laptop. "
Very true about all thee above. I really can't see Apple upgrading the entire line to the G4 though.
It would be something if Apple dropped the G3 iMac and then offered the entire iBook line as G4 making the Apple product line G4 or higher! That would be sweet! Consumer perception wise anyways! It's not going to happen though at Macworld NY anyways. Too much too soon <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: Donavan ]
[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: Donavan ]</p>
<strong>Don't get me wrong, I love the iBook too! The 12" more than the 14". As for target consumers look at the desktop format. The iBook I would compare to the eMac or lower CRT iMacs. Then you have the PowerMac G4 which compares to the Powerbook G4. So what about the target consumer for the New iMac LCD??? This isn't a entry user, or a pro. It's someone right in the middle. There is a definate market for a G4 iBook! Don't tell me there isn't a market for this.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think you are correct about the new iMac and its positioning. Perhaps we'll see the current iBooks remain G3, 12", 700Mhz. And a new iBook SE (or whatever): 14"-15" (1280 x 1024), G4, 800MHz. Positioned as a "tweener" between iBook and TiBook. But then again...how is this different from a low end TiBook? There is a $700 gap between these two. Diffs? Screen size and resolution. Video/Graphics chip. G4/speed.
P.S. I only hope they don't start making the product line TOO complex.
<strong> The G3 will have a big gap between the G5.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
URG! first its the ghz gap and now its the G gap! can't apple even keep up in their own lines!
but we should fear not for we all know Gs aren't everything. its all about the....d'oh!
<strong>I only hope they don't start making the product line TOO complex.</strong><hr></blockquote>This illustrates the need to move away from a quadrant theory into a sextant instead. A Low-end. A Mid-range. A high-end. On the desktop space, we'd have the eMac, iMac G4, and PowerMac G4/G5 respectively. On the portable desktop space, we'd have the iBook, ??? (PowerBook Lite), PowerBook G4.
People who think there's going to be a G4 in an iBook are high. I think we should be thinking from the other end...how can we make the PowerBook smaller, but maintain it's 1-inch thickness and G4 and gear it towards the prosumer. That's the angle we should be looking from IMHO.
[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: Dave Hagan ]
[ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: Dave Hagan ]</p>
It already is. Look at the G3 iMac and eMac! Who in the world would by a G3 iMac now that the eMac exist! The G3 iMac is going to disappear real soon. The Desktop range at it currently stands is a big mess! Some definate restructure needs to happen soon! Hopefully we'll have answers at Macworld next month <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Yeah I would buy that
Either way, a G4 iBook or a 12" G4 Powerbook I would buy it in a heartbeat! There's a hole in the structure and Apple should fill it soon <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
<strong>all good ideas. The way i see it right now is that the iBook is a great machine. I'm already in withdrawal. OSX is ridiculous. it works so well and it is only a matter of time for most software to come it's way. Im a pc user too, but my first machine was a mac..and the iBook was by far the best mac i have ever owned. plug in a live ethernet cable to an OSX mac and you're done. it's just that simple!</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you loved the iBook so much, why not get the one you intended to get?
If you're willing to spring for the TiBook, I'd get one now. The prices might be lower next year, but that's six months with no laptop! Besides, the latest rev of the TiBook is sweet.
It's up to you. I suppose it would also depend on just what kind of deal your friend can get you on a Ti.
you're right. i need to make the decision. there will always be a newer better machine around the bend or on the horizon... the real question is what is the opportunity cost of waiting?
as much i loved the iBook, the tiBook is the way to go. bigger, better faster...plus the more i thought about it, they won't revamp the tiBook in July as they just did. also if i can get a deal on a new one too, i have my answer.
they'll save that for macworld SF. this time it will just be the desktops. thanks everyone!
<strong>People who think there's going to be a G4 in an iBook are high.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Freaky, did you see me sneak outside for a quick toke?
Maybe the chances are low, but a boy can dream about his G4 iBook.
Actually, I just want an iBook with a higher resolution. I'd by one in a sec.
Will it happen at MWNY, nope unless the TiBook magically jumps to 1.2 Ghz and 1 Ghz.
As an aside and comparison, I am more than happy with my G3 iBook (first gen 500/66), the only thing it won't do well for me is wolfenstein MP ... but any laptop gets to hot for a recliner with it anyway (tried a dell C600 1Ghz 16 meg video card, it's playable but :eek: ... put it On the table!)
<strong>LCD's are going to get a LOT CHEAPER by this time next year.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<a href="http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article.asp?datePublish=2002/06/12&pages=09&seq=51"; target="_blank">LCD shipments have declined</a>
<strong>I'd rather see a 14" TiBook than a 14" G4 iBook...pairing a beautiful SXGA (or even UXGA...but that's not Apple-like) screen with a sleek Titanium case would win the respect of geeks worldwide.
By using a 14" screen in a LE PowerBook they could reduce the footprint and (maybe) the weight a slight bit. However, it would be extremely complicated to shrink the already extremely well packed components in the TiBook even more and also, the SXGA screen might produce more heat and would perhaps suck more power than the 15.2"...not sure about that though, probably depends on what screen they use.
Oh well. The TiBook is a winner as it is.
good call
Still a 200Mhz FSB bus on a 266DDR memory bus would be a damned sight better than anything in Apple's line-up at the moment.
***just like DIMMS eventually became cheaper than SIMMS. As RAM manufacturers transition to DDR, SDR prices will rise by comparison. Of course by then, Mot will probably have incentive to support DDR directly too.