Obviously, with the new G5s that came out, the transition will be for the iBook to move up a processor, as well as the PowerBooks to move up a processor. However, I seriously doubt that the iBook would ever have in it a Motorola G4. Instead they get the Gobi G3 (with SIMD) and call it a G4. That is where the iBook is going to go.
As for the near future, I forsee that the iBook will finally break the 1Ghz barrier, it might drop in price $100 - $200, and it could possibly have AirPort Extreme in it. (The last one is highly sceptical (sp?)).
Also, remember that the iBook was meant from the get-go to be for students and home users. Not many home users are going to be using Quark, or any of those other high-end apps, that many people have complained that the iBook doesn't run well. It is an awesome machine for what it was meant to do, allow your average home user / student to be able to be on a laptop that is easy to use, offers full functionality, and is wireless. It is a great deal.
For the record, I unlocked the thread. You're welcome.
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Eggleston
Here is my two cents on this issue...
Obviously, with the new G5s that came out, the transition will be for the iBook to move up a processor, as well as the PowerBooks to move up a processor. However, I seriously doubt that the iBook would ever have in it a Motorola G4. Instead they get the Gobi G3 (with SIMD) and call it a G4. That is where the iBook is going to go.
What Gobi G3 with SIMD? Gobi's coming out at speeds of up to 1.1GHz later this year, with no SIMD at all. It'll be hotter, too, so there'll be even more reason for Apple to use the MPC7447 G4. We won't see SIMD-enabled G3s (basically, G4s) from IBM for a good while yet.
Quote:
Also, remember that the iBook was meant from the get-go to be for students and home users.
So were the iApps, many of which require a G4. Not to mention iChat AV.
The 7447 is the first G4 that comes near fitting the iBook's requirements for cost and power consumption. I'm betting that Apple shoehorns one in as soon as is practicable. The 12" PB is almost there even with the significantly hotter 7455, and Apple's currently selling those to some people for $1300 and change, right smack in the iBook's price range. The 7447 is half the cost of the 7445 in the 12" PB as well...
Will the iBook G4 use the newer style motherboards that allow installable memory into the bottom of the unit -- like the PBG4 -- or will it retain the same case as the iBook uses now? I'm just thinking that Apple has do something about the iBook keyboard. It's junk, especially in a school environ. Seems to me the new architecture of the Alu PB's lends itself to a firmer, more solid keyboard.
It sells loads. Especially to edu' customers. Look at the size of some of those edu' contracts!
And...it has an unbelieveable price...for a Mac! It beats the pants off any desktop in terms of value bar the dual G5!
Entry level laptop for £795 inc VAT? Insane? But Apple are doing it. I'd like them to cut the price further and put the boot(up) into Dell.
The Powerbook 12 incher is a hotty. And sales will benefit from Septembers(?) pending 'bump'.
But the iBook is here to stay. It's cheap. It's attractive and switchers seem to like it alot. It's got its own demographic as sales prove.
Apple just have to keep being aggressive with it. It's kinda ironic to me that the iMac2 hasn't kept pace with the iBook in terms of bang for buck. And yeesh, the iBook is a laptop and the iMac2 is a desktop.
The desktop line at Apple could take a few cues from the laptop line in terms of strategy, tiering, price etc. Maybe desktop sales would improve.
I'm using an iBook right now. My wife's. I've got Design Collection, MX Suite on it and performance is 'okay'. It's mirrored to a D2 21incher. Looks nice. 'X' is beautiful and we don't have Panther yet.
Take the LCD off the iBook and stick the spec in a slim client desktop and you'd have have a killer bare bones headless Mac.
No question, the iBook has something about it. The design maybe tweaked...but I can't see much wrong with the one we have. Maybe put a superdrive in the top end iBook. Heh. If you want a G4 Powerbook, buy the 12 inch Powerbook. That's what it is. A metal iBook with a G4 in it.
I like the iBook. It doesn't have the oomph I want for 3d or for painting 300 dpi images in Painter or PS7. But I'd hardly call it slow. It will dutifully do day to day stuff with the merest of pauses...
The iBook is and has been leading the Apple charge for growth. Almost half of their sales? Laptops (yes, the desktops stink...) are only going to get better from Apple in 2004 as 0.09 970s appear. Apple sales for laptops will rocket further. Apple make the coolest laptops in the business. You have to give them that.
The iBook needs more power. Instead of ditching the whole line they'll probably just rename it. Something to really make headlines, something that sounds like it could be classified as an alternative to nuclear energy,.. something like - I've got it! The "power" book.
Take the LCD off the iBook and stick the spec in a slim client desktop and you'd have have a killer bare bones headless Mac.
Yup. Been thinking about this too. What about *literally* cutting off the LCD, thus leaving a keyboard on a simple, small computer with a combo drive and a rather sufficient selection of ports (56k modem, ethernet, firewire, dual usb, minivga and sound out)? Unusual design (suiting Apple's line), great as a slim client and cheap as hell (?599-ish?). Of course, remove the trackpad, battery, etc.
Maybe replace the 2.5 inch hard drive by a 3.5 inch one. And get rid of the speakers.
The C64 was like that, and it selled really well. What's wrong with that design approach?
Quote:
The design maybe tweaked...but I can't see much wrong with the one we have.
The design (at least in the mid-2002 revision, dunno about the newer Myriad-type ones) is great.
Who cares if the PB 12" eats into iBook sales? Unless it reduces them to virtual nil (and it hasn't) why would Apple stop making iBooks?
And they aren't the same market. Get one of each, set them side by side, and look at them. Forget the technical specs, just look at them. They appeal to different people. That alone is enough to differentiate them in the market. Most of the people's buying iBooks aren't shopping for specs.
I hope the SIMD-equipped iBook isn't too far off because as a developer I want the entire lineup to have AltiVec. When that happens I'll seriously consider buying one.
PowerBook line-up is fine (not talking specs here, just product line-up).
Two 12" laptops...one pro, one consumer. The usual things (bus, cache, speed, video card, DVI, etc. separating the two in price and target customers.
Two 15" laptops, same as above.
In other words, iBooks can always have slower bus, less cache, modest graphics card, no DVI, no spanning, etc. compared to the PowerBook.
Still white, still plastic, still "iStyle", etc. People wanting the absolute smallest get the 12". Those wanting a true, legit "something larger" (no, not two inches of real estate at the same 1024x768 resolution) can get the 15" iBook.
It would sell like crazy because a) the price and b) not everyone needs a PowerBook (and all it entails).
Now here's the thing: someday (perhaps by late summer/fall of 2004?) the PowerBook will get a G5 or whatever.
No reason in the WORLD the iBook couldn't get a nice 1GH-plus 7457. But, as is currently done, the iStuff gets a little bit less of the goodies and high-end features, compared to the pro gear.
So all the above is kinda looking out a year down the road, and imagining the pro stuff at 1.4-2.8GHz G5 (give or take...don't bug me on specifics, that's not the point).
The iStuff could (and SHOULD) all be sporting 1GHz-plus 7457 G4's.
That way, EVERYTHING in Apple's lineup is as OS X and iApp friendly/capable as possible. Just makes sense.
Also, nothing from Apple ships with less than 256MB STOCK (for the machines with soldered in RAM, this means "solder in a 256MB DIMM, dammit!"
Although, I'd prefer that NOTHING is soldered in and that every Mac (iStuff and pro gear) supports at MINIMUM 1GB RAM. Currently the iBook is limited to 640MB.
On a materials/buying level, there would surely have to be some sort of benefit for Apple consolidating their display purchases, right? I would imagine. They'd could order gobs of 12" for iBook and PowerBook. 15" widescreen for same.
And that 17" widescreen used in the PowerBook and iMac (and possibly even a future standalone 17" Cinema Display?).
iBook
12"
15"
PowerBook
12"
15"
17"
iMac
17"
Cinema Displays (all 16:10)
17"
20"
23"
Don't think for a second that people wouldn't buy the living hell out of a 15" widescreen G4-equipped iBook. Every student, consumer, graphics dabbler, iApp fan/user, etc. I know would jump on one. Including me (yes, even over a PowerBook...a G5 PowerBook, no less).
There IS such a thing as "overkill" and "buying more than you need".
A point worth remembering about features: They don't always trickle down. The iBook got AirPort first, because it made sense for the model.
Also, the soldered RAM helps to ensure that it has something to work with even if it's dropped hard enough to make any BTO RAM pop out. (And, hey, it does make the PowerBook that much more attractive to boot ). Given that, I doubt that the soldered RAM is going anywhere - so to speak.
I don't think the PowerBook will replace the iBook. The iBook, as a product line, ain't goin' nowhere. I do think the current model will be either obsoleted or repositioned as a purely low-end machine (as the eMac), and the mainstream iBook will be replaced by some descendant of the 12" PB, which will become a full-fledged PowerBook featurewise and hold something like its current price point.
I think the iBook and PowerBook can both run on G4s for a few months, until Apple can get a low-voltage, 90nm 970 (assuming, per Jozwiak's statement, that the 1.1v, 130nm 970 isn't going to do it). The iBook and PowerBook were both G3s once, and nobody died.
I can definitely see the current iBook sitting down at the low end as a lure for education, and for switchers. It's a sweet little machine as it is, and plenty enough for a lot of people.
the ibook must stay, and get cheaper how much processor does 10.2.7 need? keep it cheap for edu and home and entry level every comp maker has an entry level model to get people into the fold.
hey with airport regular and compodrive (that should be minimum drive they have drop like rocks in price and every wintel notebook has this) get the price down to 700-800 and bring more to the fold, even if it broke even you know that as jpeople get one they get the mac experience and jump to mac
some models are very price sensitive, also, this low $$$ mac could be the entry level and not a desktop
as was said before, configure to make money at the low end and build a new younger base to move up
how do you get more to the mac experience, they need an entry level
look at dell, and gateway, i got my sisterinlaw a gateway 14"screen combodrive for 850 delivered with case
droping the low end is poor planning and closes the door on new mac people
Comments
Obviously, with the new G5s that came out, the transition will be for the iBook to move up a processor, as well as the PowerBooks to move up a processor. However, I seriously doubt that the iBook would ever have in it a Motorola G4. Instead they get the Gobi G3 (with SIMD) and call it a G4. That is where the iBook is going to go.
As for the near future, I forsee that the iBook will finally break the 1Ghz barrier, it might drop in price $100 - $200, and it could possibly have AirPort Extreme in it. (The last one is highly sceptical (sp?)).
Also, remember that the iBook was meant from the get-go to be for students and home users. Not many home users are going to be using Quark, or any of those other high-end apps, that many people have complained that the iBook doesn't run well. It is an awesome machine for what it was meant to do, allow your average home user / student to be able to be on a laptop that is easy to use, offers full functionality, and is wireless. It is a great deal.
Originally posted by Mike Eggleston
Here is my two cents on this issue...
Obviously, with the new G5s that came out, the transition will be for the iBook to move up a processor, as well as the PowerBooks to move up a processor. However, I seriously doubt that the iBook would ever have in it a Motorola G4. Instead they get the Gobi G3 (with SIMD) and call it a G4. That is where the iBook is going to go.
What Gobi G3 with SIMD? Gobi's coming out at speeds of up to 1.1GHz later this year, with no SIMD at all. It'll be hotter, too, so there'll be even more reason for Apple to use the MPC7447 G4. We won't see SIMD-enabled G3s (basically, G4s) from IBM for a good while yet.
Also, remember that the iBook was meant from the get-go to be for students and home users.
So were the iApps, many of which require a G4. Not to mention iChat AV.
The 7447 is the first G4 that comes near fitting the iBook's requirements for cost and power consumption. I'm betting that Apple shoehorns one in as soon as is practicable. The 12" PB is almost there even with the significantly hotter 7455, and Apple's currently selling those to some people for $1300 and change, right smack in the iBook's price range. The 7447 is half the cost of the 7445 in the 12" PB as well...
Originally posted by Amorph
So were the iApps, many of which require a G4. Not to mention iChat AV.
iChat AV requires a 600MHz G3 for video chatting. Only iDVD requires a G4, but you can't get a G3 Mac with a SuperDrive anyway.
Originally posted by JLL
iChat AV requires a 600MHz G3 for video chatting. Only iDVD requires a G4, but you can't get a G3 Mac with a SuperDrive anyway.
if you want and kind of decent performance a G4 is a requirement.
come on, be realistic and honest.
Originally posted by applenut
if you want and kind of decent performance a G4 is a requirement.
come on, be realistic and honest.
1. I was addressing Amorph's comment about iApps requiring G4s.
2. I use my 900MHz iBook professionally 16 hours a day
It sells loads. Especially to edu' customers. Look at the size of some of those edu' contracts!
And...it has an unbelieveable price...for a Mac! It beats the pants off any desktop in terms of value bar the dual G5!
Entry level laptop for £795 inc VAT? Insane? But Apple are doing it. I'd like them to cut the price further and put the boot(up) into Dell.
The Powerbook 12 incher is a hotty. And sales will benefit from Septembers(?) pending 'bump'.
But the iBook is here to stay. It's cheap. It's attractive and switchers seem to like it alot. It's got its own demographic as sales prove.
Apple just have to keep being aggressive with it. It's kinda ironic to me that the iMac2 hasn't kept pace with the iBook in terms of bang for buck. And yeesh, the iBook is a laptop and the iMac2 is a desktop.
The desktop line at Apple could take a few cues from the laptop line in terms of strategy, tiering, price etc. Maybe desktop sales would improve.
I'm using an iBook right now. My wife's. I've got Design Collection, MX Suite on it and performance is 'okay'. It's mirrored to a D2 21incher. Looks nice. 'X' is beautiful and we don't have Panther yet.
Take the LCD off the iBook and stick the spec in a slim client desktop and you'd have have a killer bare bones headless Mac.
No question, the iBook has something about it. The design maybe tweaked...but I can't see much wrong with the one we have. Maybe put a superdrive in the top end iBook. Heh. If you want a G4 Powerbook, buy the 12 inch Powerbook. That's what it is. A metal iBook with a G4 in it.
I like the iBook. It doesn't have the oomph I want for 3d or for painting 300 dpi images in Painter or PS7. But I'd hardly call it slow. It will dutifully do day to day stuff with the merest of pauses...
The iBook is and has been leading the Apple charge for growth. Almost half of their sales? Laptops (yes, the desktops stink...) are only going to get better from Apple in 2004 as 0.09 970s appear. Apple sales for laptops will rocket further. Apple make the coolest laptops in the business. You have to give them that.
Lemon Bon Bon
I think the name could really catch on.
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
Take the LCD off the iBook and stick the spec in a slim client desktop and you'd have have a killer bare bones headless Mac.
Yup. Been thinking about this too. What about *literally* cutting off the LCD, thus leaving a keyboard on a simple, small computer with a combo drive and a rather sufficient selection of ports (56k modem, ethernet, firewire, dual usb, minivga and sound out)? Unusual design (suiting Apple's line), great as a slim client and cheap as hell (?599-ish?). Of course, remove the trackpad, battery, etc.
Maybe replace the 2.5 inch hard drive by a 3.5 inch one. And get rid of the speakers.
The C64 was like that, and it selled really well. What's wrong with that design approach?
The design maybe tweaked...but I can't see much wrong with the one we have.
The design (at least in the mid-2002 revision, dunno about the newer Myriad-type ones) is great.
Originally posted by Phong
The iBook needs more power.
As others have pointed out, the iBook is fast enough for what it's supposed to do.
And they aren't the same market. Get one of each, set them side by side, and look at them. Forget the technical specs, just look at them. They appeal to different people. That alone is enough to differentiate them in the market. Most of the people's buying iBooks aren't shopping for specs.
I hope the SIMD-equipped iBook isn't too far off because as a developer I want the entire lineup to have AltiVec. When that happens I'll seriously consider buying one.
Originally posted by Chucker
As others have pointed out, the iBook is fast enough for what it's supposed to do.
I've suddenly lost myself in a void of unspeakable humorlessness.
I'd like to see Aple shave another hundred bucks or so off the lowend iBook.
That said, the $1299 iBook and $1599 Powerbook are rather close in price. Here, the PB is the better deal.
Maybe $899 and $1199 iBooks would be in order?
The 14" should go though.
Originally posted by Programmer
...I hope the SIMD-equipped iBook isn't too far off because as a developer I want the entire lineup to have AltiVec....
I'd be willing to heavily wager you're not alone.
Interesting choice of words; "SIMD-equipped" and not G4.
Originally posted by Phong
I've suddenly lost myself in a void of unspeakable humorlessness.
1. 12" iBook (just a small, affordable sweet machine...no matter how you cut it). GOTTA keep it!!!
2. Axe 14" iBook. (don't freak out...keep reading).
3. Intro new 15" widescreen iBook
PowerBook line-up is fine (not talking specs here, just product line-up).
Two 12" laptops...one pro, one consumer. The usual things (bus, cache, speed, video card, DVI, etc. separating the two in price and target customers.
Two 15" laptops, same as above.
In other words, iBooks can always have slower bus, less cache, modest graphics card, no DVI, no spanning, etc. compared to the PowerBook.
Still white, still plastic, still "iStyle", etc. People wanting the absolute smallest get the 12". Those wanting a true, legit "something larger" (no, not two inches of real estate at the same 1024x768 resolution) can get the 15" iBook.
It would sell like crazy because a) the price and b) not everyone needs a PowerBook (and all it entails).
Now here's the thing: someday (perhaps by late summer/fall of 2004?) the PowerBook will get a G5 or whatever.
No reason in the WORLD the iBook couldn't get a nice 1GH-plus 7457. But, as is currently done, the iStuff gets a little bit less of the goodies and high-end features, compared to the pro gear.
So all the above is kinda looking out a year down the road, and imagining the pro stuff at 1.4-2.8GHz G5 (give or take...don't bug me on specifics, that's not the point).
The iStuff could (and SHOULD) all be sporting 1GHz-plus 7457 G4's.
That way, EVERYTHING in Apple's lineup is as OS X and iApp friendly/capable as possible. Just makes sense.
Also, nothing from Apple ships with less than 256MB STOCK (for the machines with soldered in RAM, this means "solder in a 256MB DIMM, dammit!"
Although, I'd prefer that NOTHING is soldered in and that every Mac (iStuff and pro gear) supports at MINIMUM 1GB RAM. Currently the iBook is limited to 640MB.
On a materials/buying level, there would surely have to be some sort of benefit for Apple consolidating their display purchases, right? I would imagine. They'd could order gobs of 12" for iBook and PowerBook. 15" widescreen for same.
And that 17" widescreen used in the PowerBook and iMac (and possibly even a future standalone 17" Cinema Display?).
iBook
12"
15"
PowerBook
12"
15"
17"
iMac
17"
Cinema Displays (all 16:10)
17"
20"
23"
Don't think for a second that people wouldn't buy the living hell out of a 15" widescreen G4-equipped iBook. Every student, consumer, graphics dabbler, iApp fan/user, etc. I know would jump on one. Including me (yes, even over a PowerBook...a G5 PowerBook, no less).
There IS such a thing as "overkill" and "buying more than you need".
Also, the soldered RAM helps to ensure that it has something to work with even if it's dropped hard enough to make any BTO RAM pop out. (And, hey, it does make the PowerBook that much more attractive to boot
I don't think the PowerBook will replace the iBook. The iBook, as a product line, ain't goin' nowhere. I do think the current model will be either obsoleted or repositioned as a purely low-end machine (as the eMac), and the mainstream iBook will be replaced by some descendant of the 12" PB, which will become a full-fledged PowerBook featurewise and hold something like its current price point.
I think the iBook and PowerBook can both run on G4s for a few months, until Apple can get a low-voltage, 90nm 970 (assuming, per Jozwiak's statement, that the 1.1v, 130nm 970 isn't going to do it). The iBook and PowerBook were both G3s once, and nobody died.
I can definitely see the current iBook sitting down at the low end as a lure for education, and for switchers. It's a sweet little machine as it is, and plenty enough for a lot of people.
the ibook must stay, and get cheaper how much processor does 10.2.7 need? keep it cheap for edu and home and entry level every comp maker has an entry level model to get people into the fold.
hey with airport regular and compodrive (that should be minimum drive they have drop like rocks in price and every wintel notebook has this) get the price down to 700-800 and bring more to the fold, even if it broke even you know that as jpeople get one they get the mac experience and jump to mac
some models are very price sensitive, also, this low $$$ mac could be the entry level and not a desktop
as was said before, configure to make money at the low end and build a new younger base to move up
how do you get more to the mac experience, they need an entry level
look at dell, and gateway, i got my sisterinlaw a gateway 14"screen combodrive for 850 delivered with case
droping the low end is poor planning and closes the door on new mac people