Not enough 970's being bought? Re-design the iMac!

i, fred · July 22, 2003 7:46PM

Sorry, it just seems that simple. IBM is disappointed with 970 demand, and Apple can provide the product that would move more 970's.

It's so simple that I'm sure someone has thought of it, right?

Frankly, when everyone starts throwing watts and volts and crap around here, my eyes glaze over and I start dreaming of sunshot beaches and bikini-clad women.....

.....where was I?

Oh, yeah! The new G5 iMac! It will probably have to bigger than the dome because I think the G5 is a bit of a powerslut, right? Or at least throw in the mother of all fans or whatever. Just get it done, put it on the market, give IBM more 970 money, and everyone wins.

Am I missing something?

709 · July 22, 2003 7:50PM

Quote:

Originally posted by I, Fred

Am I missing something?

A Clue.

i, fred · July 22, 2003 8:03PM

Thank you for your stunning counter-example. Bertrand Russell has nothing on you. Just the other day, Stephen Hawking called and said that he was getting out of the smart guy business now that you were on the scene.

dhagan4755 · July 22, 2003 8:09PM

Quote:

Originally posted by I, Fred

IBM is disappointed with 970 demand, and Apple can provide the product that would move more 970's.

Huh?

Oh, I'm sorry. I guess #7 in top sales at the online Apple Store means nothing. Ahhh, demand for a machine with two 970s is really disappointing.

amorph · July 22, 2003 8:14PM

I was just imagining IBM reps in Steve's office, trying to talk him into 970 PowerBooks, iMacs, iBooks, iPods, keyboards, mice...

I don't doubt that we'll see the 970 in whatever Apple can stuff it into as soon as they can stuff it in. Apple would love nothing more than to be able to lord it over the WinTel crowd. It's just that that's not always an easy proposition, or even possible in the near term.

o and a · July 22, 2003 8:51PM

what an utterly pointless thread

Why don't you link us to this supposed disappointment?

Clearly you don't have a clue.

macjedai · July 22, 2003 8:56PM

Quote:

Originally posted by O and A

what an utterly pointless thread

Why don't you link us to this supposed disappointment?

Clearly you don't have a clue.

Ahhh, but Amorph provided the elusive clue ... Apple will provide it, when they are able to. But, being that the clue is elusive, some are having trouble grasping and understanding it (not intended at you O and A).

BTW, thanks Amorph. Ya posted it before I did, and I agree.

airsluf · July 22, 2003 9:12PM

Kickaha and Amorph couldn't moderate themselves out of a paper bag. Abdicate responsibility and succumb to idiocy. Two years of letting a member make personal attacks against others, then stepping aside when someone won't put up with it. Not only that but go ahead and shut down my posting priviledges but not the one making the attacks. Not even the common decency to abide by their warning (afer three days of absorbing personal attacks with no mods in sight), just shut my posting down and then say it might happen later if a certian line is crossed. Bullshit flag is flying, I won't abide by lying and coddling of liars who go off-site, create accounts differing in a single letter from my handle with the express purpose to decieve and then claim here that I did it. Everyone be warned, kim kap sol is a lying, deceitful poster.

Now I guess they should have banned me rather than just shut off posting priviledges, because kickaha and Amorph definitely aren't going to like being called to task when they thought they had it all ignored *cough* *cough* I mean under control. Just a couple o' tools.

Don't worry, as soon as my work resetting my posts is done I'll disappear forever.

programmer · July 22, 2003 9:16PM

I think the news about the disappointing financial performance of IBM's Fishkill plant is the biggest piece of misunderstood news in some time. The plant is working fine, and they are (apparently) getting as many 970s as they need... but the plant was intended to build far more than just the 970. IBM has thrown open the front door and invited everyone to bring their designs to be fabbed. They've also offered design services and are even going to offer PPC cores to be included in designs. The problem is that people aren't lining up as expected. A few have signed on (Apple, AMD, nVidia), plus they are making the 970... but they were hoping for more.

These things take time and IBM's plan seemed pretty aggressive. I think it'll sort itself out. In the meantime I'd guess that there is no danger of a processor shortage at Apple. Must be pretty much the first time ever!

bigc · July 22, 2003 9:31PM

hmm, if no one else is using the IBM DeadFish plant then that means that IBM can make more PPC970's for Apple. Sounds like good news to me.

Maybe they'll just ramp right up to the 980's at 90nm with all them engineers sitting around scaling fish that are floatin' down the river they should have no shortage of expertise either.

Good news, thanks for the info.

ast3r3x · July 22, 2003 9:45PM

...well maybe moto should ask for some help!

luca · July 22, 2003 10:20PM

I was talking about this with my brother earlier. We didn't hear anything about demand being slow, but we were discussing the iMac and how, right now, it has the worst price/performance ratio of any computer being sold now, by anyone (not just Apple). Well, maybe there are a few but certainly not many. What better way to instantly give the iMac a unique spot while improving the price/performance dramatically than by giving the iMac a G5?

First of all, the iMac would then occupy its own unique spot in Apple's product matrix. Instead of being an eMac with a flat panel, a clever design, and a severely inflated price tag, it would have a significant advantage in power over the eMac. Pros who are in the market for new machines will still buy PowerMacs, because they should know that iMacs aren't expandable enough to last. The only pros who will buy iMac G5s would be ones that would normally not afford a PowerMac G5 and therefore would just stick with what they already have - that is, until they decide that they can work with a G5 iMac because it's fast despite not being expandable.

I personally think Apple won't have any sales to lose if they make the iMac G5 soon. They'll only gain sales... the only people who would get iMacs instead of PowerMacs would be the small "prosumer" market, which I think is pretty small. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think most Mac users and computer users in general are either consumers who want a low cost machine to check their email, or pros who need the fastest thing available. I know I'd buy an iMac within a few months if it got a G5, even though I prefer laptops or towers to AIOs.

Biggest problem right now though is the price. Apple should focus on reducing the price before they start thinking about putting a G5 in it. I went to my school's custom Apple store and looked at what machines would be available for reasonable prices... the 12" PowerBook with Airport Extreme and a larger hard drive was just over $1500, and it's a near-perfect machine for my needs. The lowest end 15" PowerBook was still pretty expensive at about $1800, while the PowerMac G4s were only about $1200 for a single processor and $1450 for a dual. Then there was the 17" iMac. I don't want the cruddy 15" iMac with its 3-year-old graphics card, slow bus speed and small screen. The 17" iMac was $1700... insane! How can a non-expandable, CONSUMER desktop cost the same as a mid-range PRO laptop?

snoopy · July 23, 2003 12:04AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Programmer

. . . the plant was intended to build far more than just the 970. IBM has thrown open the front door and invited everyone to bring their designs to be fabbed. They've also offered design services and are even going to offer PPC cores to be included in designs. The problem is that people aren't lining up as expected.

Easy to solve. Apple should order a really good G4.

gyroscope · July 23, 2003 12:30AM

Sounds like something is fishy.

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

i, fred · July 23, 2003 3:52AM

Ahh, this is what I like about you guys.....you can see trees, but the forest still eludes you.

Simply put: if IBM doesn't make more money out of the new plant (where amongst other things, they make the 970), they may find the business not worthwhile to be in, or may find making better faster 970's on a relatively quick schedule not worth the investment. Improvements cost $$$$, and IBMmay be less interested in getting up to 3 GHz in 12 months or whatever if there's no business around it. For example, maybe they'd decide that the process improvement can wait another year or so, so the faster chips arrive in 2005-6, not 2004.....

Right now, every iMac that goes out the door gives Moto $$$$ and IBM zilch. I'm to understand that it is too early to put 970's or 970-like chips in portables yet, so the only thing remaining to generate orders thus profit thus interest for IBM is the eMac and iMac. Since the eMac is intended to be the most down-scale of the desktops, it would seem that a G5 iMac would be the best place to funnel more money towards sustaining the business at Fishkill.

But whatever. You are all far too smart to see that, since it wasn't on Thinksecret or Spymac.

kane · July 23, 2003 5:18AM

As always we can rely on Programmer to set the facts straight. That was refreshing to hear seeing as so many people around here are screaming 'fire' in regards to the IBM Fishkill-plant and its so-called production problems. Thank you!

liquidr · July 23, 2003 5:25AM

Originally posted by I, Fred

Quote:

Ahh, this is what I like about you guys.....you can see trees, but the forest still eludes you.

Simply put: if IBM doesn't make more money out of the new plant (where amongst other things, they make the 970), they may find the business not worthwhile to be in, or may find making better faster 970's on a relatively quick schedule not worth the investment. Improvements cost $$$$, and IBMmay be less interested in getting up to 3 GHz in 12 months or whatever if there's no business around it. For example, maybe they'd decide that the process improvement can wait another year or so, so the faster chips arrive in 2005-6, not 2004.....

Right now, every iMac that goes out the door gives Moto $$$$ and IBM zilch. I'm to understand that it is too early to put 970's or 970-like chips in portables yet, so the only thing remaining to generate orders thus profit thus interest for IBM is the eMac and iMac. Since the eMac is intended to be the most down-scale of the desktops, it would seem that a G5 iMac would be the best place to funnel more money towards sustaining the business at Fishkill.

But whatever. You are all far too smart to see that, since it wasn't on Thinksecret or Spymac.

Sorry Fred, but what you're saying sounds exactly like what most people on all the mac boards are saying, the same wishful thinking and this is what Apple and IBM should be doing. There are notable exceptions, unfortunately I'm not one of them. Programmer and the Admins of this board are some of the ones who seem to comprehend the current direction best, I know I'm missing some, and I apologize.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but we're not the ones calling the shots at IBM or Apple.

Now what I'd really like is a G5 imac with a detachable touch sensitive lcd with stylus, oh yeah baby!!!

ast3r3x · July 23, 2003 7:18AM

Quote:

Originally posted by I, Fred

Ahh, this is what I like about you guys.....you can see trees, but the forest still eludes you.

Simply put: if IBM doesn't make more money out of the new plant (where amongst other things, they make the 970), they may find the business not worthwhile to be in, or may find making better faster 970's on a relatively quick schedule not worth the investment...

wow this thread is stupider then the ones i post!

as to ur reply...IBM isn't making as much money as they thought they should at fishkill. So they rn't going to try to improve upon the chip that is making the plant useful so that apple buys more? no what was i thinkign ur logic makes so much more sense

i can see it now...top IBM execs

exec 1:"well this sucks our plant isn't making as much money as we wanted"

exec 2:"hmm...what if we stop improving the 970 which is the one thing making us money from the plant, or maybe just drop it all together?"

exec 1:"sounds like a good business decision to me"

exec 2:"ok done and done, now...lets figure why no money is coming in from the fishkill plant anymore"

bostonmh · July 23, 2003 7:42AM

While I personally think Apple will update to the 970 as soon as possiable to increase sales. I think that they are waiting for the 970 to be produced at .09 micron. This should deal with the heat issue. But keep this in mind. The current 970 are being used because the G4 need to be replaced as soon as possiable and Apple could not wait until Jan/Feb to release the new G5.

Once the 970 is at .09 micron you will see the Chip first in a refreshed G5 Tower & server. The Powerbook will be the next to be updated with a G5. This is because Apple sells more Powerbooks and has larger margins than the iMac.

My predictions for the lines:

Jan/Feb 2004 Refreshed G5 tower.

Aug/Sept 2003 G4 Powerbooks April/May 2004 G5 Powerbook.

Sept/Oct 2003 G4 iMac July/Aug G5 iMac.

Sept/Oct 2003 G3 iBook July/Aug G4 iBook.

I think that reasonable time line. But this time line could be excelerated if IBM can deliver the .09 micron 970 in increased volume. I sure Apple is working hard on the new motherboards for G5 Powerbooks & iMacs.

tht · July 23, 2003 9:12AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Luca Rescigno

I was talking about this with my brother earlier. We didn't hear anything about demand being slow, but we were discussing the iMac and how, right now, it has the worst price/performance ratio of any computer being sold now, by anyone (not just Apple).

Yup.

Quote:

Well, maybe there are a few but certainly not many. What better way to instantly give the iMac a unique spot while improving the price/performance dramatically than by giving the iMac a G5?

Concurrence!

Quote:

I personally think Apple won't have any sales to lose if they make the iMac G5 soon. They'll only gain sales... the only people who would get iMacs instead of PowerMacs would be the small "prosumer" market, which I think is pretty small.

Oh, I don't think Apple will lose "profit margin" if they have a good, consistant price/performance ratio for all its products. In this case, making the PowerMacs all duals will insure that low MHz (1 to 1.4 GHz) won't steal sales from high MHz (1.6 to 2 GHz) PowerMacs.

Quote:

Then there was the 17" iMac. I don't want the cruddy 15" iMac with its 3-year-old graphics card, slow bus speed and small screen. The 17" iMac was $1700... insane! How can a non-expandable, CONSUMER desktop cost the same as a mid-range PRO laptop?

That's because it is a Powerbook G4 with a different form factor.

The specs are very similar. Once can probably conclude that the iMac is Apple's lowest profit margin product.

airsluf · July 23, 2003 9:26AM

Kickaha and Amorph couldn't moderate themselves out of a paper bag. Abdicate responsibility and succumb to idiocy. Two years of letting a member make personal attacks against others, then stepping aside when someone won't put up with it. Not only that but go ahead and shut down my posting priviledges but not the one making the attacks. Not even the common decency to abide by their warning (afer three days of absorbing personal attacks with no mods in sight), just shut my posting down and then say it might happen later if a certian line is crossed. Bullshit flag is flying, I won't abide by lying and coddling of liars who go off-site, create accounts differing in a single letter from my handle with the express purpose to decieve and then claim here that I did it. Everyone be warned, kim kap sol is a lying, deceitful poster.

Now I guess they should have banned me rather than just shut off posting priviledges, because kickaha and Amorph definitely aren't going to like being called to task when they thought they had it all ignored *cough* *cough* I mean under control. Just a couple o' tools.

Don't worry, as soon as my work resetting my posts is done I'll disappear forever.

Not enough 970's being bought? Re-design the iMac!

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