I have a hard time deciding whether all these PowerBook update features are based on reality or merely wishful thinking. I'm sure they'll happen sometime, maybe 4th quarter 2003 or first quarter 2004. It seems more likely that soon the 15" PB will be migrated to the AL line, probably with the same feature set as the 17" PB with the exception of no backlit keyboard and the same speeds as the present TiBook.
This brings up the question, will those people crying for a 15" AL book go for the incrimental upgrade or will they hold out for a far distant major upgrade?
First, the specs listed above are not so different from what is shipping now. The next 15" PB should have Airport Extreme (already released Apple product), better airport range with Al case (already released technology), backlit keyboard (existing tech, wishful thinking), faster GPU (happens every upgrade), larger HD (happens every upgrade). It has been reported elsewhere that other companies are already shipping small samples of the Motorola 7457 so that appears to be real. Overall, the discussions about the next 15" PB have been rather conservative (apart from any mention of the G5). The biggest problem is just getting them shipped.
As to who will buy them? Some have already given up waiting and bought existing product. Lots of other fence sitters (like me) have adequate existing hardware but are ready to buy immediately when the PB is released.
The problem is Apple doesn't announce release dates in advance. I understand them keeping the specs secret but why not tell us the release date? Care companies deal with this and that is a much bigger industry. In March I pretty much decided I wanted to get a 15" PB. At that time it seemed reasonable that a replacement was imminent so I waited. Had I known it was eight months off I might have bought the existing Ti (or a used one) and planned an upgrade for one or two upgrade cycles in the future. As it is you can't make any plans.
There's certainly no technical reason why the backlit keyboard can't go into the 15". I remember hearing one of the Apple guys saying that the only reason the 12" didn't have it was for "marketing reasons". I'd be surprised (and disappointed) if they carried the same reasons through to the 15" in order to make the 17" more desirable in some way. In my opinion, people will know which powerbook is right for them, they won't make their decision based on whether the keyboard lights up so why bother leaving that feature out?
There's certainly no technical reason why the backlit keyboard can't go into the 15". I remember hearing one of the Apple guys saying that the only reason the 12" didn't have it was for "marketing reasons". I'd be surprised (and disappointed) if they carried the same reasons through to the 15" in order to make the 17" more desirable in some way. In my opinion, people will know which powerbook is right for them, they won't make their decision based on whether the keyboard lights up so why bother leaving that feature out?
This is one of the potential advantages of the wintel world. With hundreds of suppliers out there you have at least the chance for someone to make the exact combination of features you want. The reality is that in the wintel world you can get any combination of video cards, ports, memory, PCI slots etc. but you don't find much in the way of really cool designs. Some of the Japanese makers come close. The ultra portable laptops are amazing but when you read the specs you see they cut a lot of corners.
To save you from jumping over there and muddling through that page for the details, one poster says a reseller told him new 15-aluminums were shipping for debut next week.
Another poster said a friend emailed him the specs of new Apple portables. He seemed rather luke warm about the email though. Given the specs, I can understand why. The specs he posted weren't properly formatted so I'll "translate" so to speak.
PowerBooks
Good:
Snip....
Comment away... [/B]
Thanks for finding this nugget of info:
Well I dunno, dual processors But my gut reaction is: When monkeys come shoot'n outta my ass! The specs seem weird why continue at the same speeds ? If moto is that lame that they can't bump the 1ghz up five or ten percent for the top of the line; then that is a big problem. The dualies idea is still a power hog that is a least 30 watts which is, as I recall volts times amps. So let's see a 24v battery divided by 32 watts( figuring a little for the rest of the motherboard) equals 1.33 amps Thats gonna be one hell of a battery. Either that or it will ship with three batts. No to mention the rest of the laptop drives screen and whatnot....The other thing is the video chipset doesn't really have the same class of muscle as the radeon. I haven't anywhere print that the Nvidia is better the all agree it is good but not better. So why go with them?
Now all of this is conjecture on my part. I know less about what apple is gonna do than most of you but, Those specs seem to me like a complete fabrication
Yep, fabricated rumor IMO... why the heck would anyone buy the low end PB when the high end iBook's specs is equal to or better than it in every respect, at a $200 lower price point?
I don't believe that dual processor PowerBooks are likely any time soon (if at all), but hypothetically...
A lot of people seem to be worried about the power requirements of a dual processor PowerBook, and how it would drain the battery in no time. But who's to say both processors would be running when you're on battery power?
If there were duals, I think it very likely that there would be a default Energy Saver setting that switches you to single processor mode as soon as you're running off the battery. Dual processing power would mainly be for at-home/in-the-office desktop replacement use.
I don't know if I'd want one of these puppies sitting in my lap, plugged in, with both processors going full tilt -- I think you might have to prop your dualie up on a special cooling rack at a safe distance from contact with human flesh.
I don't believe that dual processor PowerBooks are likely any time soon (if at all), but hypothetically...
A lot of people seem to be worried about the power requirements of a dual processor PowerBook, and how it would drain the battery in no time. But who's to say both processors would be running when you're on battery power?
If there were duals, I think it very likely that there would be a default Energy Saver setting that switches you to single processor mode as soon as you're running off the battery. Dual processing power would mainly be for at-home/in-the-office desktop replacement use.
I don't know if I'd want one of these puppies sitting in my lap, plugged in, with both processors going full tilt -- I think you might have to prop your dualie up on a special cooling rack at a safe distance from contact with human flesh.
Yeah, my vaio automatically bumps down the processor from 933mhz to somewhere around 400mhz when you unplug it. You can manually "force" it to run fast off the batteries, but it won't last long.
I don't believe that dual processor PowerBooks are likely any time soon (if at all), but hypothetically...
A lot of people seem to be worried about the power requirements of a dual processor PowerBook, and how it would drain the battery in no time. But who's to say both processors would be running when you're on battery power?
Good point, I hadn't thought of that. But that begs the question: if you have the same clock speed as the last model and you are running only one processor when it is in "portable mode" is it really an upgrade?
Speed alone does not an upgrade make. Or does it? I don't know.
Wouldn't we also want to look at the other refinements like FireWire 800, USB 2.0, AirPort Extreme, Bluetooth, DDR RAM, large hard drive (always increased on a Mac rev), faster optical drives, new hinge design, nicer shell, cooler-running chip, better battery life, possible illuminated keyboard, perhaps a new wider screen.
To me, all those things make for a nice, worthwhile upgrade and reason to buy (if you're in the market for a PowerBook).
Good point, I hadn't thought of that. But that begs the question: if you have the same clock speed as the last model and you are running only one processor when it is in "portable mode" is it really an upgrade?
That one's actually easy to answer.
If you go to Apple's FCP page, they show off the ultimate combo for video work: A PowerBook in the field running FCP, and a PowerMac with a big old Cinema Display for compositing et al.
Well, what if your PowerBook became that PowerMac when you set it down on your desk? The "portable desktop" is a significant market on the Windows side, but those big lugs are worthless as notebooks. A DP PowerBook like the above would be a usable notebook that turned into a usable desktop when necessary. The best of both worlds!
This is not to say that I consider a DP PowerBook in any way likely. But if they did do it, and they did it that way, I think that a lot of professionals would be all over it.
If you go to Apple's FCP page, they show off the ultimate combo for video work: A PowerBook in the field running FCP, and a PowerMac with a big old Cinema Display for compositing et al.
Well, what if your PowerBook became that PowerMac when you set it down on your desk? The "portable desktop" is a significant market on the Windows side, but those big lugs are worthless as notebooks. A DP PowerBook like the above would be a usable notebook that turned into a usable desktop when necessary. The best of both worlds!
This is not to say that I consider a DP PowerBook in any way likely. But if they did do it, and they did it that way, I think that a lot of professionals would be all over it.
I think that the main weakness of the powerbook, is not his processor, but his HD. The HD of a tower is approximatively twice as fast as the HD of a powerbook.
Toshiba just released a 7200 rpm 2,5 inch 50 GB drive with 16 MB, but i fear that this device, will drain too much power from the battery.
I think that the main weakness of the powerbook, is not his processor, but his HD. The HD of a tower is approximatively twice as fast as the HD of a powerbook.
Toshiba just released a 7200 rpm 2,5 inch 50 GB drive with 16 MB, but i fear that this device, will drain too much power from the battery.
RPM isn't the be-all, end-all measure of HDD performance. It's possible for a 4200RPM drive to beat a 5400RPM drive under some common uses - it depends on exactly which models you're comparing, and what uses you're subjecting them to. The usual tradeoff is that slower drives can pack data more densely (because of the slower rotation), but they have higher latency (because of the slower rotation).
Certainly, battery life is a major issue. Slower HDDs also tend to be quieter and cheaper.
over on mac rumors, there's a prediction out of nowhere that new powerbooks will actually appear tomorrow: friday 25th. posters havestarted asking for sources
I think that the main weakness of the powerbook, is not his processor, but his HD. The HD of a tower is approximatively twice as fast as the HD of a powerbook.
This makes me wonder how practical it would be to make a two-speed drive, with a fast mode and a power-saving mode.
This makes me wonder how practical it would be to make a two-speed drive, with a fast mode and a power-saving mode.
You might as well just go out and buy a FW800 disk array if you really need the extra speed. It wouldn't have to be portable since you would only use the "fast mode" hard drive when the laptop was plugged in anyways.
Faster RPM drives are hotter and can take less wear and tear. Two qualities not good in a laptop.
Only recently did a 7200 RPM drive comes out. It seems worthwhile to wait until the kinks are worked out.
You know something? The other night I watched the January Macworld keynote (actually scrubbed through to the part with the two new PowerBooks being unveiled) and I'd never noticed something Jobs says:
He's talking about the line-up and says something to the effect of "we've got the 15" Titanium, and it's not going anywhere. But today..."
Are we 100% sure there even IS a 15" aluminum PowerBook waiting in the wings? I mean we've had Jack from Macwhispers being shown to be totally full of it. We've had every supposed "insider" here ("my friend's step-sister works at CompUSA and she saw on the inventory log that..."), not to mention two major events come and go.
This would not be the first time Apple - for whatever goofy, known-only-to-them reason - have COMPLETELY sailed against reason, logic, the expected thing, etc.
There really hasn't, when you stop and think of it, been ONE sure-fire clue or hint that anything like this exists. We might just see a 12" and 17" bump in the next 1-2 months and maybe Apple knows they want to go to the G5 ASAP and have something in store for early 2004 along those lines and any new aluminum 15" will be used for it.
Maybe the 15" TiBook ISN'T going anywhere and is - like it or not - that one, lone holdout piece (due to the whole OS 9 thing too) and is intended to take us through until 2004?
People will riot!
I just find it really odd and freaky that the most anticipated product in Apple's lineup in a LONG time seems to have no firm, solid evidence of its existence. Just more "we think..." rumors and speculation by the usual suspects.
That report of the 15.4" screens being manufactured by that company would probably be the ONLY true piece of info. But we don't know resolution, if it's 16:10 wide or just .2" larger (at 16:11) than the current 15" PowerBook, etc.).
I know we'll go all the way until September for this. And I wonder what will truly happen in Paris?
Seriously...judging by the various threads here and all the talk at the other Mac news and rumor sites, this will probably be the most back-ordered product in the history of the universe. IF they announce it in September, I have this sickening feeling that I'll be lucky to own one by Thanksgiving...
This will be one of those keynotes where you're sitting there with the phone in one hand, VISA card in the other and the Apple Store on the speed dial.
100% in agreement. We don't know whether this 15-inch aluminum model will come! There may yet be another rev of the Titanium. The 15.4-inch spec has become mythical. It's merely speculation drawn from the introduction of the 12- and 17-inch PowerBooks back in January. It's like the expectation of a new "widescreen" 17-inch Cinema Display just because the iMac is using it. It may seem logical for most, but as you said Apple tends to go against the grain.
Comments
Originally posted by OldCodger73
I have a hard time deciding whether all these PowerBook update features are based on reality or merely wishful thinking. I'm sure they'll happen sometime, maybe 4th quarter 2003 or first quarter 2004. It seems more likely that soon the 15" PB will be migrated to the AL line, probably with the same feature set as the 17" PB with the exception of no backlit keyboard and the same speeds as the present TiBook.
This brings up the question, will those people crying for a 15" AL book go for the incrimental upgrade or will they hold out for a far distant major upgrade?
First, the specs listed above are not so different from what is shipping now. The next 15" PB should have Airport Extreme (already released Apple product), better airport range with Al case (already released technology), backlit keyboard (existing tech, wishful thinking), faster GPU (happens every upgrade), larger HD (happens every upgrade). It has been reported elsewhere that other companies are already shipping small samples of the Motorola 7457 so that appears to be real. Overall, the discussions about the next 15" PB have been rather conservative (apart from any mention of the G5). The biggest problem is just getting them shipped.
As to who will buy them? Some have already given up waiting and bought existing product. Lots of other fence sitters (like me) have adequate existing hardware but are ready to buy immediately when the PB is released.
The problem is Apple doesn't announce release dates in advance. I understand them keeping the specs secret but why not tell us the release date? Care companies deal with this and that is a much bigger industry. In March I pretty much decided I wanted to get a 15" PB. At that time it seemed reasonable that a replacement was imminent so I waited. Had I known it was eight months off I might have bought the existing Ti (or a used one) and planned an upgrade for one or two upgrade cycles in the future. As it is you can't make any plans.
Originally posted by OldCodger73
probably with the same feature set as the 17" PB with the exception of no backlit keyboard and the same speeds as the present TiBook.
Why on earth would Apple not put the backlit keyboard into the 15"?
Originally posted by ethar
Why on earth would Apple not put the backlit keyboard into the 15"?
I agree, unless there is some phenomenal technical problem we should see the backlit keyboard in the 15.4" PB.
Originally posted by Wifty
There's certainly no technical reason why the backlit keyboard can't go into the 15". I remember hearing one of the Apple guys saying that the only reason the 12" didn't have it was for "marketing reasons". I'd be surprised (and disappointed) if they carried the same reasons through to the 15" in order to make the 17" more desirable in some way. In my opinion, people will know which powerbook is right for them, they won't make their decision based on whether the keyboard lights up so why bother leaving that feature out?
This is one of the potential advantages of the wintel world. With hundreds of suppliers out there you have at least the chance for someone to make the exact combination of features you want. The reality is that in the wintel world you can get any combination of video cards, ports, memory, PCI slots etc. but you don't find much in the way of really cool designs. Some of the Japanese makers come close. The ultra portable laptops are amazing but when you read the specs you see they cut a lot of corners.
Originally posted by DHagan4755
(link)
To save you from jumping over there and muddling through that page for the details, one poster says a reseller told him new 15-aluminums were shipping for debut next week.
Another poster said a friend emailed him the specs of new Apple portables. He seemed rather luke warm about the email though. Given the specs, I can understand why. The specs he posted weren't properly formatted so I'll "translate" so to speak.
PowerBooks
Good:
Snip....
Comment away... [/B]
Thanks for finding this nugget of info:
Well I dunno, dual processors
Now all of this is conjecture on my part. I know less about what apple is gonna do than most of you but, Those specs seem to me like a complete fabrication
A lot of people seem to be worried about the power requirements of a dual processor PowerBook, and how it would drain the battery in no time. But who's to say both processors would be running when you're on battery power?
If there were duals, I think it very likely that there would be a default Energy Saver setting that switches you to single processor mode as soon as you're running off the battery. Dual processing power would mainly be for at-home/in-the-office desktop replacement use.
I don't know if I'd want one of these puppies sitting in my lap, plugged in, with both processors going full tilt -- I think you might have to prop your dualie up on a special cooling rack at a safe distance from contact with human flesh.
Originally posted by shetline
I don't believe that dual processor PowerBooks are likely any time soon (if at all), but hypothetically...
A lot of people seem to be worried about the power requirements of a dual processor PowerBook, and how it would drain the battery in no time. But who's to say both processors would be running when you're on battery power?
If there were duals, I think it very likely that there would be a default Energy Saver setting that switches you to single processor mode as soon as you're running off the battery. Dual processing power would mainly be for at-home/in-the-office desktop replacement use.
I don't know if I'd want one of these puppies sitting in my lap, plugged in, with both processors going full tilt -- I think you might have to prop your dualie up on a special cooling rack at a safe distance from contact with human flesh.
Yeah, my vaio automatically bumps down the processor from 933mhz to somewhere around 400mhz when you unplug it. You can manually "force" it to run fast off the batteries, but it won't last long.
Originally posted by shetline
I don't believe that dual processor PowerBooks are likely any time soon (if at all), but hypothetically...
A lot of people seem to be worried about the power requirements of a dual processor PowerBook, and how it would drain the battery in no time. But who's to say both processors would be running when you're on battery power?
Good point, I hadn't thought of that. But that begs the question: if you have the same clock speed as the last model and you are running only one processor when it is in "portable mode" is it really an upgrade?
Wouldn't we also want to look at the other refinements like FireWire 800, USB 2.0, AirPort Extreme, Bluetooth, DDR RAM, large hard drive (always increased on a Mac rev), faster optical drives, new hinge design, nicer shell, cooler-running chip, better battery life, possible illuminated keyboard, perhaps a new wider screen.
To me, all those things make for a nice, worthwhile upgrade and reason to buy (if you're in the market for a PowerBook).
Originally posted by taliesin
Good point, I hadn't thought of that. But that begs the question: if you have the same clock speed as the last model and you are running only one processor when it is in "portable mode" is it really an upgrade?
That one's actually easy to answer.
If you go to Apple's FCP page, they show off the ultimate combo for video work: A PowerBook in the field running FCP, and a PowerMac with a big old Cinema Display for compositing et al.
Well, what if your PowerBook became that PowerMac when you set it down on your desk? The "portable desktop" is a significant market on the Windows side, but those big lugs are worthless as notebooks. A DP PowerBook like the above would be a usable notebook that turned into a usable desktop when necessary. The best of both worlds!
This is not to say that I consider a DP PowerBook in any way likely. But if they did do it, and they did it that way, I think that a lot of professionals would be all over it.
Originally posted by Amorph
That one's actually easy to answer.
If you go to Apple's FCP page, they show off the ultimate combo for video work: A PowerBook in the field running FCP, and a PowerMac with a big old Cinema Display for compositing et al.
Well, what if your PowerBook became that PowerMac when you set it down on your desk? The "portable desktop" is a significant market on the Windows side, but those big lugs are worthless as notebooks. A DP PowerBook like the above would be a usable notebook that turned into a usable desktop when necessary. The best of both worlds!
This is not to say that I consider a DP PowerBook in any way likely. But if they did do it, and they did it that way, I think that a lot of professionals would be all over it.
I think that the main weakness of the powerbook, is not his processor, but his HD. The HD of a tower is approximatively twice as fast as the HD of a powerbook.
Toshiba just released a 7200 rpm 2,5 inch 50 GB drive with 16 MB, but i fear that this device, will drain too much power from the battery.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
I think that the main weakness of the powerbook, is not his processor, but his HD. The HD of a tower is approximatively twice as fast as the HD of a powerbook.
Toshiba just released a 7200 rpm 2,5 inch 50 GB drive with 16 MB, but i fear that this device, will drain too much power from the battery.
RPM isn't the be-all, end-all measure of HDD performance. It's possible for a 4200RPM drive to beat a 5400RPM drive under some common uses - it depends on exactly which models you're comparing, and what uses you're subjecting them to. The usual tradeoff is that slower drives can pack data more densely (because of the slower rotation), but they have higher latency (because of the slower rotation).
Certainly, battery life is a major issue. Slower HDDs also tend to be quieter and cheaper.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
I think that the main weakness of the powerbook, is not his processor, but his HD. The HD of a tower is approximatively twice as fast as the HD of a powerbook.
This makes me wonder how practical it would be to make a two-speed drive, with a fast mode and a power-saving mode.
Can we close this topic. I am so angry that Apple is not realeasing anything related with powerbooks.
kill the thread
Matt
Originally posted by shetline
This makes me wonder how practical it would be to make a two-speed drive, with a fast mode and a power-saving mode.
You might as well just go out and buy a FW800 disk array if you really need the extra speed. It wouldn't have to be portable since you would only use the "fast mode" hard drive when the laptop was plugged in anyways.
Faster RPM drives are hotter and can take less wear and tear. Two qualities not good in a laptop.
Only recently did a 7200 RPM drive comes out. It seems worthwhile to wait until the kinks are worked out.
He's talking about the line-up and says something to the effect of "we've got the 15" Titanium, and it's not going anywhere. But today..."
Are we 100% sure there even IS a 15" aluminum PowerBook waiting in the wings? I mean we've had Jack from Macwhispers being shown to be totally full of it. We've had every supposed "insider" here ("my friend's step-sister works at CompUSA and she saw on the inventory log that..."), not to mention two major events come and go.
This would not be the first time Apple - for whatever goofy, known-only-to-them reason - have COMPLETELY sailed against reason, logic, the expected thing, etc.
There really hasn't, when you stop and think of it, been ONE sure-fire clue or hint that anything like this exists. We might just see a 12" and 17" bump in the next 1-2 months and maybe Apple knows they want to go to the G5 ASAP and have something in store for early 2004 along those lines and any new aluminum 15" will be used for it.
Maybe the 15" TiBook ISN'T going anywhere and is - like it or not - that one, lone holdout piece (due to the whole OS 9 thing too) and is intended to take us through until 2004?
People will riot!
I just find it really odd and freaky that the most anticipated product in Apple's lineup in a LONG time seems to have no firm, solid evidence of its existence. Just more "we think..." rumors and speculation by the usual suspects.
That report of the 15.4" screens being manufactured by that company would probably be the ONLY true piece of info. But we don't know resolution, if it's 16:10 wide or just .2" larger (at 16:11) than the current 15" PowerBook, etc.).
I know we'll go all the way until September for this. And I wonder what will truly happen in Paris?
Seriously...judging by the various threads here and all the talk at the other Mac news and rumor sites, this will probably be the most back-ordered product in the history of the universe. IF they announce it in September, I have this sickening feeling that I'll be lucky to own one by Thanksgiving...
This will be one of those keynotes where you're sitting there with the phone in one hand, VISA card in the other and the Apple Store on the speed dial.