My opinion of OWC's product return policies

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 38
    tripleotripleo Posts: 26member
    Done deal.







    Quote:

    Originally posted by Eugene

    And those companies would eventually get no business whatsoever. If you really want, you can complain to the BBB. Go ahead. Complain about Apple's no-return policy while you're at it.



  • Reply 22 of 38
    murbotmurbot Posts: 5,262member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tripleo

    If this was legal, nothing would stop companies from adopting a similar policy and purposely shipping out DOA that they gathered from the trash can at FRY's.



    Except that customers will normally allow a company to replace defective merchandise.



    If you adopt a policy of "DOA, I'm going somewhere ELSE!" with RAM purchases, you'll run out of companies to do business with in 2-3 years, depending on how often you buy memory. EVERY company ships out defective products. When they do, they replace them.



  • Reply 23 of 38
    dwsdws Posts: 108member
    OWC is a great company. The fact that they only you charged you a nominal amount to take back dead RAM, when they would have been happy to send you a replacement at no extra charge, is better than you get with many companies. Your strenuous efforts to besmirch the good name of a company that supports the Mac world so admirably is very unfortunate.



    One fact that I don't think has been mentioned much was that there is no way for anybody to know when the memory became bad. Was it truly dead on arrival, as you claim; or did you kill it yourself. It's certainly easy to damage RAM through electrostatic discharge. An accident could have happened while you were installing it. It's a somewhat common occurrence. This fact makes OWCs small charge perfectly acceptable.



    Given the over-the-top attitude that you've expressed in this forum thread, I can easily imagine that you didn't use very good people skills when communicating with the good people at OWC. Perhaps you would have gotten a better response if you hadn't been screaming and ranting (figuratively speaking, I hope!).



    I have never had a bad experience with OWC.
  • Reply 24 of 38
    murbotmurbot Posts: 5,262member
    BTW, I edited your thread title. If your argument had some merit, I'd allow the company-slamming title to live. But sadly, it doesn't, and it had to be put down.



    *sniff*
  • Reply 25 of 38
    tripleotripleo Posts: 26member
    Wow. Silly me to think I'd find people here who actually thought I'd been had. And my demeanor has gotten more aggravated as I feel I have been attacked more and more for what ay normal person would see as a problem with the company. My argument has no MERIT?



    I really have nothing else to say.

    RAM was bad. I was charged to return it. Shouldn't happen.



    i'm in shock that I've come under attack. Strange world we live in. i apologize for apparently coming off as an asshole. was never my intention.
  • Reply 26 of 38
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    1) As I illustrated, OWC's policies represent the status quo.

    2) OWC's policies are clearly accessable from their website.



    You are complaining about normalcy and not being a careful shopper. You can start your own landmark lawsuit against every RAM selling merchant in the world if you want. Nobody's stopping you. Just don't expect any sympathy from us.



    I'd rather take the occasional exchange rather than have the costs of additional testing and QA put into the price of my purchased RAM.
  • Reply 27 of 38
    tripleotripleo Posts: 26member
    .....as if you guys' "people skills" are any better. Please.
  • Reply 28 of 38
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tripleo

    Wow. Silly me to think I'd find people here who actually thought I'd been had. And my demeanor has gotten more aggravated as I feel I have been attacked more and more for what ay normal person would see as a problem with the company. My argument has no MERIT?



    I really have nothing else to say.

    RAM was bad. I was charged to return it. Shouldn't happen.



    i'm in shock that I've come under attack. Strange world we live in. i apologize for apparently coming off as an asshole. was never my intention.




    1) You haven't been had.



    2) We're not attacking, try visiting AppleOutsider if you want attacks. We're just trying to point out that logically, while I am sure you are upset, your harsh words and attitude toward the company is unjustified.



    3) Try polling the people you consider "normal" to see if they would persistently react the same way after realizing that everything that has happened is in line with their policy. I think it rather daft to assume that you speak on behalf of all normal people in this world.



    4) No, your argument holds no merit because, as the word demands, your argument is not worthy of any praise or applause, only pity. When you lay all of the facts out on the table, nothing wrong has really happened. You lost $13.50 because of a policy that you claim to have read before even making the order. Pony up some responsibility and accept it.



    5) Ram was bad. You were charged to return it. Shouldn't happen? Except that you yourself claim you read the return policy. OWC has followed their return policy. What would lead you to believe that they would not follow it? The fact that it was defective? Again, most places will only replace defective ram, not even allow a return.



    I think the problem here is that you went to their website, you asked for an RMA number, and returned the RAM. What probably should have been done was to call OWC, tell them the RAM you just ordered was DOA. Ask how they planned on resolving this issue. You could have, at that point, requested an exchange, if they did not offer one.



    Instead you seem to have just returned it, and said, "To hell with it". Thus, the company followed their policy on returning goods. As has been pointed out above, at least OWC let you return the memory, which is more than can be said for some other companies. I think it is important to point out that if you purchased Apple RAM, and it was DOA, they would more than likely exchange it, but not allow a return. That's actually good business.



    Also, you may want to tone down the language a bit. Read the posting guidelines, specifically entry number seven:



    Quote:

    7. While foul language is tolerated to a certain extent, profanity in the title of threads is not allowed. Excessive, unnecessary use of profanity (again, at the moderators' discretion) is not welcome.



  • Reply 29 of 38
    THE FOLLOWING IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE (I am not admitted to practice in any state):



    I too would be infuriated. It's not the $13 that is the point here, it is them screwing you.



    I would call one more time.



    Sounds to me that they delivered non-conforming (i.e defective) goods and thus breached the contract. You then refused the goods and demanded a return of your money.



    The restocking fee is for return of conforming goods, it is part of the contract. From what you have described it does not sound as though you are returning under the contract, you are demanding your money back because they breached by delivering non-conforming goods which you did not accept!



    THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVISE!



    This is simply how I would phrase it when making a demand for my money.



    I might also point out that they are wasting a ton of man hours for $13 that don't go into their pockets. If they ask you why you are spending so much time then, tell them that you get self-satisfaction out of seeing justice done.
  • Reply 30 of 38
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    joseph mother, there's a threshold where the cost of extra QA becomes worthless and inflates the sale price for the end-user. Do you really want that?



    Furthermore, why couldn't tripleo just accept an exchange and move on?



    At this rate, he's going to give himself a heart attack because no merchants have return policies for this kind of hardware that suit him...
  • Reply 31 of 38
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Eugene

    joseph mother, there's a threshold where the cost of QA becomes to unwieldy and inflates the sale price for the end-user. Do you really want that?



    Hey, there is high quality RAM and low quality RAM. It is totally valid in my view to not want to use a product that is spotty. I recently had an experience in which I had to swap out a chip twice because, although it was all PC2100, the manufacturer of the first two chips just wasn't up to snuff. (In fairness to OWC, this was not an OWC product or transaction.) Apple told me flat out to call my retailer and demand a different manufacturer. I did, problem solved.



    Why should the unlucky consumer have to bare the cost of a shoddy product? Let the seller recover its $13.50 from the manufacturer.



    Hey, give me RAM at marginal cost, then I'll take on the risk, but OWC and the manufacturing enterprise are profit-seeking ventures. If they sell enough bad RAM and lose profits because of it, they will stop selling the low-quality RAM, fix the process, and/or change suppliers.



    I mean if you want things as cheap as possible, let's get rid of warranties all together! Your car would cost much less if you didn't have to share the risk with all other car owners. Next time you take your car in for a multiple $1000 warranty repair, you sit back and think about whether you would rather that your car cost $500 less to start with or that you are given an assurance that you are not responsible for catastrophic failures that are no fault of your own.
  • Reply 32 of 38
    shetlineshetline Posts: 4,695member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Eugene (from apple.com)

    Please note that Apple does not permit the return of or offer refunds for the following products:



    Product that is custom configured to your specifications




    A bit of a tangent... but, whoa. If I make any custom request when ordering a computer from Apple -- like add a Bluetooth module, more RAM (at very inflated prices), bigger hard drive... it's all of a sudden a non-returnable item?



    I can't actually imagine wanting to return a computer that I ordered unless I was exchanging a defective unit for a good unit -- and I'm sure the above limitation doesn't apply there. But I'd never realized that customizing cut your options like this. I suppose Apple doesn't want to have to deal with either (A) uninstalling your add-ons, or (B) keeping your customized unit inventoried until someone else orders the same set of options.
  • Reply 33 of 38
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by joesph mother

    Why should the unlucky consumer have to bare the cost of a shoddy product? Let the seller recover its $13.50 from the manufacturer.



    You answered the question yourself. OWC RAM is less expensive on the whole. Take the added expense of Crucial or Corsair as insurance.



    But over-all, gosh, shipping RAM back to a merchant costs maybe 3 bucks, the only costs in an exchange.
  • Reply 34 of 38
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tripleo

    Wow. Silly me to think I'd find people here who actually thought I'd been had. And my demeanor has gotten more aggravated as I feel I have been attacked more and more...



    *snip*



    i'm in shock that I've come under attack. Strange world we live in. i apologize for apparently coming off as an asshole. was never my intention.




    Let me interject some thoughts here. First of all, tripleo, it's unfortunate that you were unable to return the defective product without paying a restocking fee. I'm especially sorry that you've felt attacked here. While some members who've replied could have phrased their responses with a little more tact, I can reassure you that on the whole, Moderators and members alike here try to be as helpful as possible. Please don't think that the posters here have been attacking you. They are simply trying to give you "real world" advice on your situation -- advice that you may not want to hear, quite frankly. That's understandable.



    On a similar note, I'd recommend that you try not to get too worked up about this. In the grand scheme of life, the $13.50 you lost is a drop in the "hat" of all the money you'll ever had to spend. Think of this as a $13.50 lesson to read return policies/terms of agreement/contracts/directions/recipes/etc. a bit closer next time, and to request an exchange instead of a refund when you don't want to pay a restocking fee (You can ensure this by calling instead of using the web site). Don't forget, it's also your prerogative to NOT shop at OWC ever again.



    Thanks for reading. I hope this helps.
  • Reply 35 of 38
    Also, not all "generic" ram is shoddy. It is also worthwhile to point out that the RAM that tripleo returned was just plain DOA, not "shoddy" or "questionable.



    Plenty of people have dealt with OWC and have, at least that I can recall, serious issues with the RAM. Apple's own frimware updates make the computer even more anal about the RAM that goes into them. OWC is a mac shop and is well aware of this.



    Personally, I don't buy name brand memory. I buy my generic memory from 18004MEMORY, and they've always given me working kit. They tend to have the lowest prices, and their kit comes with a lifetime guarantee. They also have a section of their site for RAM for macs, which is an excellent sign.



    Anyhow, I don't think OWC is pushing "shoddy" memory on people. Lemons come out of the name brand boys as well...
  • Reply 36 of 38
    russsrusss Posts: 115member
    If tripleo had posted this a couple of weeks ago I would probably be in agreement with most of the others here in saying OWC did nothing wrong. I've bought memory and other hardware from OWC for over five years and have always been a satisfied customer recommending them whenever I could.



    I feel completely different now. About a month ago I purchased one of their Mercury Extreme G4 1.4Ghz upgrades. One of the reasons I bought it was their 30 day 100% Money back guarantee. Well after three weeks of use it died. So I got an RMA# from them and returned it. Yesterday I got a receipt from OWC showing a refund to my credit card. Problem was they charged me a 15% restocking fee! To top it off they took 15% off the current selling price, $30 less than what I paid.



    I called them today and asked what exactly a 100% money-back guarantee meant. The customer support guy I spoke to said it was a mistake and the full amount would be refunded. Problem solved, right? Nope. They are refunding the current selling price, not what I paid. So I lose $30 on the deal. They said it was their policy. I really didn't feel like arguing over 30 bucks so I just told the guy "fine" and hung up.



    Needless to say I won't be buying from or recommending OWC anymore.
  • Reply 37 of 38
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tripleo

    Wow. Silly me to think I'd find people here who actually thought I'd been had. And my demeanor has gotten more aggravated as I feel I have been attacked more and more for what ay normal person would see as a problem with the company. My argument has no MERIT?



    I really have nothing else to say.

    RAM was bad. I was charged to return it. Shouldn't happen.



    i'm in shock that I've come under attack. Strange world we live in. i apologize for apparently coming off as an asshole. was never my intention.




    Try buying a new car, and returning it to the dealership a week later, and ask for a full refund.



    Look at it the other way. You're a company, and some guy buys electronic equipment from you. His routine to install equipment is exactly the same-- he shuffles across the room in his shag carpet, takes off his wool sweater, and proceeds to install said electronic equipment.



    He's now returned the same part 20 times for a refund/exchange, whatever. As the smiling business man, you happily exchange, replace, or simply take back his defective part. You've earned a customer for life! At the cost of said 20 defective parts, and counting.



    In any case, your situation is covered in their service agreement. If you don't think that's fair, you should see the loopholes I right in our performance agreement with customers regarding my airbag crash sensing performance.
  • Reply 38 of 38
    drewpropsdrewprops Posts: 2,321member
    You know, I don't think that you're an a-hole for being upset that they charge you this restocking fee. You often don't see a similar charge out of the catalog retailers in the case of defective merchandise, so to encounter it at another retailer is both unexpected and unsavory for the customer.



    From OWC's perspective, they're a small company and they have to ensure that they won't be sidelined by a flaw in their business model. This restocking fee covers them against a cut&return flood. So, to them, it's a necessary evil.



    I know someone VERY WELL who once ordered from their company.



    He was ready to buy one of those nifty new "firewire hard-drives" and he ordered one from OWC. It arrived and he plugged it into his B&W G3 and it didn't work. So he called them and they gladly shipped him a new one and sent him the RMA so he could ship the first one back. The replacement showed up, and it wouldn't work either. He called them back and they were friendly and responsive and prepared to ship another drive, but they were out of stock. Several days later, with them still being out of stock, he became frustrated...so he called them up and just decided to cancel his order.



    Bang. There was a $50 charge on his credit card...the restocking fee. That pissed him off, but it was their policy.



    He called up ClubMac and ordered a LaCie firewire drive. When it arrived IT wouldn't work either. He spent 3 hours grinding around on the internet and finally discovered a little undocumented letter-upgrade driver on LaCie's website and the drive finally worked with his computer.



    He went out of town for 3 days.



    When he got back he noticed there was a brown box in front of his front door, that had been sitting outside and had been rained on. Taking it inside, he opened it up and found the 3rd hard drive from OWC in it. He kept it, and it worked with his computer (probably because of the updated LaCie driver).



    He considers it Retail Karma that the drive was delivered.

    No other charges appeared on his credit card.



    Would he use OWC again? Maybe.
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