SDW, please don't rehash this again. Your assumptions lead to your conclusions. Others have different assumptions and have had different results. Congrats on the new vehicle. I hope it works trouble free until the next millenium.
And as for poor man's thinking... I'm not the millionaire next door, but I don't do too badly.
Nick
Our financial consultant ALWAYS says to buy a used car.
Our financial consultant ALWAYS says to buy a used car.
I don't usually do that, but it IS sage advice.
Yes, every personal financial analysis says the same. The only analysis I've ever seen that concludes that buying new is more economical than buying used is SDW's.
There are other values, of course. It's not all about money. To a lot of people the prestige and social acceptance of the big, expensive car is important. And everybody spends a ton of money on their cars, so it's true that you're not keeping up with the Joneses if you're the only one with a small, used car in neighborhoods otherwise full of 2005 monster SUVs.
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
One can, of course, buy cash. But what is one going to be able to buy for cash? Most people I know don't have an exra $15K sitting around, no matter what their income is.
That is the real problem - more so probably than the new vs. used issue. People just live beyond their means. They don't have to, but our culture just promotes it. And I think you're right that it's not related to income. I know lots of people with monster incomes and yet no money. It's weird.
Quote:
People also think that if they buy cash, they don;t have a payment. That's not true. One has to amortize for repairs and the monthly savings for the NEXT car.
Wow. That's some seriously twisted logic. Taking out a loan for consumption is good because otherwise you'd have to be saving?
Hey, we all have our vices. Life wouldn't be interesting otherwise. For lots of folks on AI, it's new computers. For you, SDW, it's year's-salary gas-guzzling killer SUVs.
But another issue that I think is even more important than the used vs. new issue is how long you keep the car. If you can keep that monster for over a decade, you've probably more than made up for your loss from buying new compared to most image-conscious people who buy every coupla years.
I don't agree. Any decent used car is going to cost $10-15K...
Nope. I've never spent more than $9000 for a used car and I've had some very, very good used cars. I bought one new car and it was okay but not worth the extra cost.
Sounds like you got a fairly good deal on the SUV, though. I just can't imagine spending that much on a car.
Buying a car new is definately for the type of person that buys to keep a car- like me! It's the only way you can ensure the car has always been kept in the best shape for the best longevity.
If you don't mind going through car after car every few years, then "used" sounds like a good plan. Of course, leasing can be a very competitive strategy in the same vein, plus you get to enjoy the joys of a new car to boot. I guess it all depends on how much "personal attachment" you assign to the car you drive.
Current car is a used '95/'96 Jeep Cherokee Sport chop shop rebuild special... $9k in '96. (Twas two Jeeps that had bad days, ripped to component pieces and built into one sparkly new... er... Frankenjeep.)
I've plunked $800 into repairs into it in the past 7 years (gotta love Mopar wiring harnesses), and just took it into the dealer prior to my current round-the-continent tour (3700 miles so far in the past 10 days), and his synopsis was: "You have 30-40% left on your front brake pads, and a *slight* rear main seal leak that we'll look at when you get back, other than that, it's perfect." The pads are normal wear and tear maintenance, and the seal is likely due to some new oil I'm using that is undoubtedly taking out the deposits... I wouldn't be surprised if it reseats by the time I get back. If not, eh, a minor repair.
Cosmetically, it's got some 'character', but I really couldn't give a rat's posterior about whether or not the fit and finish is 100%... it's a vehicle, not a showpiece. (Besides, the chances of it getting ripped off are much, much lower. ) No chrome brush guards here, this is a real 4WD, not a groinal extension.
It gets me around more than decently, and my total cost so far has been <$10k for 7 years... with low insurance rates ($70/month). Resale value is going to suck, since the title says 'rebuild' on it, but I don't plan on selling it until it's lived a full life. I'll be hitting 100kmi this week, most likely, and Gwanjeep* has been great. Here's to another 250kmi, like my brother's truck.
Yeah, you can get a lemon, or you can find yourself a Gwanjeep, and do more than fine. Good buys can be found in new or used cars. Sounds like you did just fine for yourself $ wise, SDW, as far as new cars go.
*It got christened this trip, after _Valley of the Gwangi_, a B scifi movie starring Ray Harryhausen's stop motion work about a valley of lost dinosaurs. Going through the backroads of the South Dakota Badlands, it seemed appropriate.
Wow. An honest to goodness disagreement with minimal, perhaps NO flames.
Buying a new car is going to cost more. That's true and I don't dispute it. For me, I know it's not really about prestige. Despite the price of the vehicle, I don't generally live beyond my means. I don't finance things other than my house an my cars for the most part We did finance my dining room set for one year at zero interest...we're a payment ahead and will be done next month. We did this so we could use some of the cash to build a deck. It worked out great.
We have two vehicles, one being a 2001 Grand Am and the other is the Envoy. The Grand Am is paid off. We put a lot of money into our vehicles and our house. A nice, clean and exceptionally reliable vehicle is very important to me. I drive almost an hour to work and we make fairly frequent long trips...sometimes to FL to see my Dad. I'm not doing that trip in a 1994 Caravan, for example. We plan to keep the car for quite awhile. Or, depending on whether we're upside down on the loan, we may trade it after several years (this would amount to leasing the car from ourselves with no restrictions). We'll have to see about that. Anyway, we'll soon have NO other debt than the mortgage and the home equity loan, both of which are secured debt on an appeciating asset. We also have substantial investments, including IRA's and a college fund, not to mention substantial reserve cash and bond fond as well. Making a judgement that we live beyond our means is premature and ill-informed.
Trumptman, I'm not taking a dig at you. I know plenty of folks who go the used route. I just disgaree with it...that's all. I don't fault you or anyone else for going that way.
BRussell, as far as twisted logic goes, I don't think that's fair. It's a matter of perspective. Though spending and saving are not the same thing, one is still "making a a payment" in a sense when he saves for next car. Most analysts will also tell you that saving has to be treated as an EXPENSE. That's a fact.
Let's say you buy a nice used vehicle for $9600 with tax, tags, etc. There is a 30 day warranty on the car. It has 65,000 miles on it. This vehicle is probably not going to last more than 4 years. This means to buy another car for cash in four years, one has to save $200 a month just to buy the next car. One also is going to amortize repairs. Though it would be nice to accept the "feel good" scenarios here about repair frequency and cost, I have seen people drop $1500 into a 5 year old vehicle on multiple ocassions. It is NOT uncommon. I've seen this with cars that are 4 years old, 5 years old, and 6 years old. Head gasket goes? $1200. Clutch? $700 Transmission? $400-$1200 Shocks? $150-$600. Brakes? $50-$200. All of these are going to have more wear (probably) with a used car.
But let's be fair and amortize in $50 a month for repairs and maintainence one wouldn't have to do on newer vehicle (we're exlcuding regular scheduled maintenece except for higher "mileage maintainences" like a 60,000 mile service). This means we're ate $250 a month. That's what it WILL cost to drive the car. Assuming you want to keep buying cash, that's what it will cost. During the time you're doing this "saving", you're driving a 4-9 year old vehicle which doesn't have any warranty at all...usually even powertrain at that point. If you've never seen someone drop this kind of money, you're practicing wishful thinking. Again...no offense.
Is it going to cost me more than you. I know that. I'm also driving a fairly new car every day. When I'm done, the money will be back in my home instead of being pissed away like with third-party financing. If I move (unlikely) and need the cash, I'll just go get a used vehicle loan.
One last point: You are right that most financial advisors will tell you to buy used. That's because they look at it as an investment. Newsflash: If a car were a true "investment", we'd have people jumping off buidlings every day. It's NOT an investment. It's a product. It's become no different than a computer or TV set. As I said...I don't hear anybody telling me I'm crazy because I bought a $3500 Pismo 3 years ago...which is now worth $500-$600. That's a bigger percentage loss than on the vehicle!
One last point: You are right that most financial advisors will tell you to buy used. That's because they look at it as an investment. Newsflash: If a car were a true "investment", we'd have people jumping off buidlings every day. It's NOT an investment. It's a product. It's become no different than a computer or TV set. As I said...I don't hear anybody telling me I'm crazy because I bought a $3500 Pismo 3 years ago...which is now worth $500-$600. That's a bigger percentage loss than on the vehicle! [/B]
Absolutely NOT.
No one thinks of cars as investments. Financial Advisors especially. They are just trying to get you to waste LESS money, essentially.
For me, I like buying and owning a NEW car because I know it's complete history. I don't smoke and other such things and with my old 89 Shelby, I never even let anyone eat/drink, lean in or on it. I was very stingy with it.
Now, with 3 young kids, I can't be so picky.
The biggest advantage in my mind buying new is some of the other makes. They include scheduled service. For M-B, for example, it means a couple of things. First, it saves you hundreds if not thousands over their high service prices. (My M-B used to cost me > $100 for oil changes). Plus, once the car is traded in, there's no excuse for it not being mechanically superior to a car that didn't have its 15k, 30k, 45k, etc. service intervals performed. How many american-make buyers religiously take their car in for those intervals? <1%, perhaps. Just try. I did. Call and schedule a "15k service". The guy on the other end will ask you what's wrong, needs fixed, or what you'd like to do to it. Say "That's your area of expertise, but the manual states this.....", and you'll hear "If you don't need that, then why ask for it"< and so on and so forth. It's a riot.
Anyway, I like to buy new, and that's but one additional reason that I'm not a millionaire. (Besides the THREE other reasons, that are all under 7 years old, !!!!!)
Current car is a used '95/'96 Jeep Cherokee Sport chop shop rebuild special... $9k in '96. (Twas two Jeeps that had bad days, ripped to component pieces and built into one sparkly new... er... Frankenjeep.)
Alright another Jeep Cherokee owner! I own two so does that mean I get call them frankenjeeps? I mean I never turned them into one machine, but still. One is quite ugly.
My blue Jeep Cherokee made a round the continent trip about 4 years ago. I put over 8,000 miles on it that summer. I started the trip with 167,000 miles on it. It is still around now with 221k miles on it but is currently getting the air repaired thanks to a screw up on my part.
The rear main seal leak is unlikely to go away. It is a "feature" of the 4.0 L engine and transmission that appears when ever they are run in dirty conditions often. For example 2 years ago I took my blue Jeep down deep into the Baja California. We went down to Bahia de Los Angeles. Along the way I learned that a Mexican "road" on a map can indeed be 120+ miles of nothing more than dirt trails. It took us about 4 hours to get through that adventure and I was just a little worried as the Jeep was running in fairly hot conditions off-road continiously for 4 hours. I was even worried more about the shocks than the engine because I doubted they had ever been designed to travel for that long over very rough trails.
Needless to say, when we came back I had a rear seal leak that had widened a bit more. However it did make the entire trip from Beaumont to B. d. L.A. and back with no trouble.
I have begun looking into engine rebuilds as the Jeep might someday need one. However for now it is a sort of fun experiment to see how long it will go.
Wow. An honest to goodness disagreement with minimal, perhaps NO flames.
One last point: You are right that most financial advisors will tell you to buy used. That's because they look at it as an investment. Newsflash: If a car were a true "investment", we'd have people jumping off buidlings every day. It's NOT an investment. It's a product. It's become no different than a computer or TV set. As I said...I don't hear anybody telling me I'm crazy because I bought a $3500 Pismo 3 years ago...which is now worth $500-$600. That's a bigger percentage loss than on the vehicle!
It's not that they look at cars as investments. It's that most investments take some serious money to get into and start earning a return. If someone doesn't have the $10-15k to buy a used car, how likely are they to have $10-15k to buy an investment property, start a business, etc.
We don't have people jumping off buildings... yet. However we do see lots of folks who are just never going to be able to retire or retire while trying to live off just Social Security. The fit is going to hit the shan pretty darn soon now. If that prescription drug benefit passes, I imagine it will blow a hole in the budget the size of Jupiter.
As for your Pismo, sure there is a cost in owning the computer. No one said life isn't to be enjoyed in some regards, or to have no hobbies or interests. If you didn't earn any money with your Pismo though and kept upgrading just to have the latests and greatest to play MP3's with etc. Then people would likely question your purchasing decisions.
Take it from me, the now owner of a dual 1 gig PowerMac G4 which I picked up yesterday.
It's not that they look at cars as investments. It's that most investments take some serious money to get into and start earning a return. If someone doesn't have the $10-15k to buy a used car, how likely are they to have $10-15k to buy an investment property, start a business, etc.
We don't have people jumping off buildings... yet. However we do see lots of folks who are just never going to be able to retire or retire while trying to live off just Social Security. The fit is going to hit the shan pretty darn soon now. If that prescription drug benefit passes, I imagine it will blow a hole in the budget the size of Jupiter.
As for your Pismo, sure there is a cost in owning the computer. No one said life isn't to be enjoyed in some regards, or to have no hobbies or interests. If you didn't earn any money with your Pismo though and kept upgrading just to have the latests and greatest to play MP3's with etc. Then people would likely question your purchasing decisions.
Take it from me, the now owner of a dual 1 gig PowerMac G4 which I picked up yesterday.
Again, we'll just have to disagree. I spend more and I'm fine with that. I'm not putiing my retirement in jeopardy in any way. My only debts at the end of next month will be my mortgage and equity loan. I've had knowledgeable folks (like loan consultants...who are pretty tough) look at my credit, debt loab, etc...and I've been told I'm in superb shape. We've got IRA's and a college fund in securities. I have bonds and cash for reserve funds and emergencies/castostrophies (like losing a job or the like).
I think your assumptions are a bit off, in other words. An expensve car does not equal financial peril or future jeopardy.
Comments
Originally posted by trumptman
SDW, please don't rehash this again. Your assumptions lead to your conclusions. Others have different assumptions and have had different results. Congrats on the new vehicle. I hope it works trouble free until the next millenium.
And as for poor man's thinking... I'm not the millionaire next door, but I don't do too badly.
Nick
Our financial consultant ALWAYS says to buy a used car.
I don't usually do that, but it IS sage advice.
Originally posted by JRC
Our financial consultant ALWAYS says to buy a used car.
I don't usually do that, but it IS sage advice.
Yes, every personal financial analysis says the same. The only analysis I've ever seen that concludes that buying new is more economical than buying used is SDW's.
There are other values, of course. It's not all about money. To a lot of people the prestige and social acceptance of the big, expensive car is important. And everybody spends a ton of money on their cars, so it's true that you're not keeping up with the Joneses if you're the only one with a small, used car in neighborhoods otherwise full of 2005 monster SUVs.
Originally posted by SDW2001
One can, of course, buy cash. But what is one going to be able to buy for cash? Most people I know don't have an exra $15K sitting around, no matter what their income is.
That is the real problem - more so probably than the new vs. used issue. People just live beyond their means. They don't have to, but our culture just promotes it. And I think you're right that it's not related to income. I know lots of people with monster incomes and yet no money. It's weird.
People also think that if they buy cash, they don;t have a payment. That's not true. One has to amortize for repairs and the monthly savings for the NEXT car.
Wow. That's some seriously twisted logic. Taking out a loan for consumption is good because otherwise you'd have to be saving?
Hey, we all have our vices. Life wouldn't be interesting otherwise. For lots of folks on AI, it's new computers. For you, SDW, it's year's-salary gas-guzzling killer SUVs.
But another issue that I think is even more important than the used vs. new issue is how long you keep the car. If you can keep that monster for over a decade, you've probably more than made up for your loss from buying new compared to most image-conscious people who buy every coupla years.
Originally posted by SDW2001
I don't agree. Any decent used car is going to cost $10-15K...
Nope. I've never spent more than $9000 for a used car and I've had some very, very good used cars. I bought one new car and it was okay but not worth the extra cost.
Sounds like you got a fairly good deal on the SUV, though. I just can't imagine spending that much on a car.
If you don't mind going through car after car every few years, then "used" sounds like a good plan. Of course, leasing can be a very competitive strategy in the same vein, plus you get to enjoy the joys of a new car to boot. I guess it all depends on how much "personal attachment" you assign to the car you drive.
Current car is a used '95/'96 Jeep Cherokee Sport chop shop rebuild special... $9k in '96. (Twas two Jeeps that had bad days, ripped to component pieces and built into one sparkly new... er... Frankenjeep.)
I've plunked $800 into repairs into it in the past 7 years (gotta love Mopar wiring harnesses), and just took it into the dealer prior to my current round-the-continent tour (3700 miles so far in the past 10 days), and his synopsis was: "You have 30-40% left on your front brake pads, and a *slight* rear main seal leak that we'll look at when you get back, other than that, it's perfect." The pads are normal wear and tear maintenance, and the seal is likely due to some new oil I'm using that is undoubtedly taking out the deposits... I wouldn't be surprised if it reseats by the time I get back. If not, eh, a minor repair.
Cosmetically, it's got some 'character', but I really couldn't give a rat's posterior about whether or not the fit and finish is 100%... it's a vehicle, not a showpiece. (Besides, the chances of it getting ripped off are much, much lower.
It gets me around more than decently, and my total cost so far has been <$10k for 7 years... with low insurance rates ($70/month). Resale value is going to suck, since the title says 'rebuild' on it, but I don't plan on selling it until it's lived a full life. I'll be hitting 100kmi this week, most likely, and Gwanjeep* has been great. Here's to another 250kmi, like my brother's truck.
Yeah, you can get a lemon, or you can find yourself a Gwanjeep, and do more than fine. Good buys can be found in new or used cars. Sounds like you did just fine for yourself $ wise, SDW, as far as new cars go.
*It got christened this trip, after _Valley of the Gwangi_, a B scifi movie starring Ray Harryhausen's stop motion work about a valley of lost dinosaurs. Going through the backroads of the South Dakota Badlands, it seemed appropriate.
Buying a new car is going to cost more. That's true and I don't dispute it. For me, I know it's not really about prestige. Despite the price of the vehicle, I don't generally live beyond my means. I don't finance things other than my house an my cars for the most part We did finance my dining room set for one year at zero interest...we're a payment ahead and will be done next month. We did this so we could use some of the cash to build a deck. It worked out great.
We have two vehicles, one being a 2001 Grand Am and the other is the Envoy. The Grand Am is paid off. We put a lot of money into our vehicles and our house. A nice, clean and exceptionally reliable vehicle is very important to me. I drive almost an hour to work and we make fairly frequent long trips...sometimes to FL to see my Dad. I'm not doing that trip in a 1994 Caravan, for example. We plan to keep the car for quite awhile. Or, depending on whether we're upside down on the loan, we may trade it after several years (this would amount to leasing the car from ourselves with no restrictions). We'll have to see about that. Anyway, we'll soon have NO other debt than the mortgage and the home equity loan, both of which are secured debt on an appeciating asset. We also have substantial investments, including IRA's and a college fund, not to mention substantial reserve cash and bond fond as well. Making a judgement that we live beyond our means is premature and ill-informed.
Trumptman, I'm not taking a dig at you. I know plenty of folks who go the used route. I just disgaree with it...that's all. I don't fault you or anyone else for going that way.
BRussell, as far as twisted logic goes, I don't think that's fair. It's a matter of perspective. Though spending and saving are not the same thing, one is still "making a a payment" in a sense when he saves for next car. Most analysts will also tell you that saving has to be treated as an EXPENSE. That's a fact.
Let's say you buy a nice used vehicle for $9600 with tax, tags, etc. There is a 30 day warranty on the car. It has 65,000 miles on it. This vehicle is probably not going to last more than 4 years. This means to buy another car for cash in four years, one has to save $200 a month just to buy the next car. One also is going to amortize repairs. Though it would be nice to accept the "feel good" scenarios here about repair frequency and cost, I have seen people drop $1500 into a 5 year old vehicle on multiple ocassions. It is NOT uncommon. I've seen this with cars that are 4 years old, 5 years old, and 6 years old. Head gasket goes? $1200. Clutch? $700 Transmission? $400-$1200 Shocks? $150-$600. Brakes? $50-$200. All of these are going to have more wear (probably) with a used car.
But let's be fair and amortize in $50 a month for repairs and maintainence one wouldn't have to do on newer vehicle (we're exlcuding regular scheduled maintenece except for higher "mileage maintainences" like a 60,000 mile service). This means we're ate $250 a month. That's what it WILL cost to drive the car. Assuming you want to keep buying cash, that's what it will cost. During the time you're doing this "saving", you're driving a 4-9 year old vehicle which doesn't have any warranty at all...usually even powertrain at that point. If you've never seen someone drop this kind of money, you're practicing wishful thinking. Again...no offense.
Is it going to cost me more than you. I know that. I'm also driving a fairly new car every day. When I'm done, the money will be back in my home instead of being pissed away like with third-party financing. If I move (unlikely) and need the cash, I'll just go get a used vehicle loan.
One last point: You are right that most financial advisors will tell you to buy used. That's because they look at it as an investment. Newsflash: If a car were a true "investment", we'd have people jumping off buidlings every day. It's NOT an investment. It's a product. It's become no different than a computer or TV set. As I said...I don't hear anybody telling me I'm crazy because I bought a $3500 Pismo 3 years ago...which is now worth $500-$600. That's a bigger percentage loss than on the vehicle!
[i]
One last point: You are right that most financial advisors will tell you to buy used. That's because they look at it as an investment. Newsflash: If a car were a true "investment", we'd have people jumping off buidlings every day. It's NOT an investment. It's a product. It's become no different than a computer or TV set. As I said...I don't hear anybody telling me I'm crazy because I bought a $3500 Pismo 3 years ago...which is now worth $500-$600. That's a bigger percentage loss than on the vehicle! [/B]
Absolutely NOT.
No one thinks of cars as investments. Financial Advisors especially. They are just trying to get you to waste LESS money, essentially.
For me, I like buying and owning a NEW car because I know it's complete history. I don't smoke and other such things and with my old 89 Shelby, I never even let anyone eat/drink, lean in or on it. I was very stingy with it.
Now, with 3 young kids, I can't be so picky.
The biggest advantage in my mind buying new is some of the other makes. They include scheduled service. For M-B, for example, it means a couple of things. First, it saves you hundreds if not thousands over their high service prices. (My M-B used to cost me > $100 for oil changes). Plus, once the car is traded in, there's no excuse for it not being mechanically superior to a car that didn't have its 15k, 30k, 45k, etc. service intervals performed. How many american-make buyers religiously take their car in for those intervals? <1%, perhaps. Just try. I did. Call and schedule a "15k service". The guy on the other end will ask you what's wrong, needs fixed, or what you'd like to do to it. Say "That's your area of expertise, but the manual states this.....", and you'll hear "If you don't need that, then why ask for it"< and so on and so forth. It's a riot.
Anyway, I like to buy new, and that's but one additional reason that I'm not a millionaire. (Besides the THREE other reasons, that are all under 7 years old, !!!!!)
Originally posted by Kickaha
Count me in the 'used' category. (Um, wait...)
Current car is a used '95/'96 Jeep Cherokee Sport chop shop rebuild special... $9k in '96. (Twas two Jeeps that had bad days, ripped to component pieces and built into one sparkly new... er... Frankenjeep.)
Alright another Jeep Cherokee owner! I own two so does that mean I get call them frankenjeeps? I mean I never turned them into one machine, but still. One is quite ugly.
My blue Jeep Cherokee made a round the continent trip about 4 years ago. I put over 8,000 miles on it that summer. I started the trip with 167,000 miles on it. It is still around now with 221k miles on it but is currently getting the air repaired thanks to a screw up on my part.
The rear main seal leak is unlikely to go away. It is a "feature" of the 4.0 L engine and transmission that appears when ever they are run in dirty conditions often. For example 2 years ago I took my blue Jeep down deep into the Baja California. We went down to Bahia de Los Angeles. Along the way I learned that a Mexican "road" on a map can indeed be 120+ miles of nothing more than dirt trails. It took us about 4 hours to get through that adventure and I was just a little worried as the Jeep was running in fairly hot conditions off-road continiously for 4 hours. I was even worried more about the shocks than the engine because I doubted they had ever been designed to travel for that long over very rough trails.
Needless to say, when we came back I had a rear seal leak that had widened a bit more. However it did make the entire trip from Beaumont to B. d. L.A. and back with no trouble.
I have begun looking into engine rebuilds as the Jeep might someday need one. However for now it is a sort of fun experiment to see how long it will go.
Nick
Originally posted by SDW2001
Wow. An honest to goodness disagreement with minimal, perhaps NO flames.
One last point: You are right that most financial advisors will tell you to buy used. That's because they look at it as an investment. Newsflash: If a car were a true "investment", we'd have people jumping off buidlings every day. It's NOT an investment. It's a product. It's become no different than a computer or TV set. As I said...I don't hear anybody telling me I'm crazy because I bought a $3500 Pismo 3 years ago...which is now worth $500-$600. That's a bigger percentage loss than on the vehicle!
It's not that they look at cars as investments. It's that most investments take some serious money to get into and start earning a return. If someone doesn't have the $10-15k to buy a used car, how likely are they to have $10-15k to buy an investment property, start a business, etc.
We don't have people jumping off buildings... yet.
As for your Pismo, sure there is a cost in owning the computer. No one said life isn't to be enjoyed in some regards, or to have no hobbies or interests. If you didn't earn any money with your Pismo though and kept upgrading just to have the latests and greatest to play MP3's with etc. Then people would likely question your purchasing decisions.
Take it from me, the now owner of a dual 1 gig PowerMac G4 which I picked up yesterday.
Nick
It's not that they look at cars as investments. It's that most investments take some serious money to get into and start earning a return. If someone doesn't have the $10-15k to buy a used car, how likely are they to have $10-15k to buy an investment property, start a business, etc.
We don't have people jumping off buildings... yet. However we do see lots of folks who are just never going to be able to retire or retire while trying to live off just Social Security. The fit is going to hit the shan pretty darn soon now. If that prescription drug benefit passes, I imagine it will blow a hole in the budget the size of Jupiter.
As for your Pismo, sure there is a cost in owning the computer. No one said life isn't to be enjoyed in some regards, or to have no hobbies or interests. If you didn't earn any money with your Pismo though and kept upgrading just to have the latests and greatest to play MP3's with etc. Then people would likely question your purchasing decisions.
Take it from me, the now owner of a dual 1 gig PowerMac G4 which I picked up yesterday.
Again, we'll just have to disagree. I spend more and I'm fine with that. I'm not putiing my retirement in jeopardy in any way. My only debts at the end of next month will be my mortgage and equity loan. I've had knowledgeable folks (like loan consultants...who are pretty tough) look at my credit, debt loab, etc...and I've been told I'm in superb shape. We've got IRA's and a college fund in securities. I have bonds and cash for reserve funds and emergencies/castostrophies (like losing a job or the like).
I think your assumptions are a bit off, in other words. An expensve car does not equal financial peril or future jeopardy.
o one thinks of cars as investments. Financial Advisors especially. They are just trying to get you to waste LESS money, essentially.
And I'm saying it's not as much waste as one thinks...expecially when compared to buying used. To me, it's more than worth it to drive new.
Though, in a sense, ALL cars are a money pit. I figure if I'm going to pay, then I'm going to drive new. Period.