My lombard from '99 would still be chugging along nicely if some absentminded twit (no, not me) didn't spill coke all over it. It still works but needs a hard reset a few times a day. Also, mine was made in the few months when daughtercards we'd later find out were incompatible with OSX were being slapped in. I would like to update more often but, unless I get an unexpected salary hike, it ain't gonna happen.
Sorry to here about the coke incident. In my case some absentminded twit (yes, me ) dropped it at least twice. It still works pretty much OK but the LCD backlight is a little funky in the left corners. I also screwed up the heat sink a little while upgrading the HD. It now overheats when running flat out.
This is the nature of laptops. They are subject to much more agitation than towers.
Sorry to here about the coke incident. In my case some absentminded twit (yes, me ) dropped it at least twice. It still works pretty much OK but the LCD backlight is a little funky in the left corners. I also screwed up the heat sink a little while upgrading the HD. It now overheats when running flat out.
This is the nature of laptops. They are subject to much more agitation than towers.
I spilled root beer *inside* my tower. It still mostly works, but occasionally the video card needs a little sticky wiggle.
Could it be that you are right? Could it be that Jack Campbell and MacWhispers is right too?
Well, I can see how your chain of events could happen... and it does sound logical. I find myself doing this alot and the only problem is that given the little that we know, there are many logical chain of events that could fit our facts.
And I think you give MacWhispers too much credit. Jack has predicted everything from 15 inch Al PB's in Jan, Feb, Mar, and April, to G5 PB's and now that the Ti model will continue on with a minimal processor change. I mean the only thing he hasn't predicted is that hamsters running on wheels will power the next PB.
He even claims that he scored a hit on the iPods, but forgets that he predicted video iPods, different HD sizes, said ThinkSecret was wrong, said they'd go to plastic backs, etc, etc.
He puts so much stuff up and it's so all over the map, that he's gotta get something right eventually. Even a blind squirrel will find a nut in the forrest eventually ( sorry about the rodent fixation... ).
I'm not saying you're worng and what you propose makes sense, just adding my $.02.
And I think you give MacWhispers too much credit. Jack has predicted everything from 15 inch Al PB's in Jan, Feb, Mar, and April, to G5 PB's and now that the Ti model will continue on with a minimal processor change. I mean the only thing he hasn't predicted is that hamsters running on wheels will power the next PB.
...
He puts so much stuff up and it's so all over the map, that he's gotta get something right eventually. Even a blind squirrel will find a nut in the forrest eventually ( sorry about the rodent fixation... ).
Not picking on you in particular but I think a lot of people expect Apple to act in a very linear fashion. If Apple were a 25M$ company with five engineers I could see them behaving as the forums suggest. Apple has a 500M$ R&D budget. They must have all sorts of projects going on trying out various alternatives. They must fund various "Plan B" projects which will likely never see the light of day. And they are constrained in their actions by various suppliers. The point is, it is extremely difficult for an outsider with spotty information to predict _what_ Apple will do and darn near impossible to predict _when_ they will do it.
I'm not defending Jack in particular, I have no way of knowing anything about his character. My point is that second guessing Apple (or any similar sized company) is a very difficult problem (even for many of those inside Apple).
My problem with that timeline is, as mentioned above, that it was publicly known shortly after the 7457 failed to materialize this spring that it would appear in Q4. Anything that suggests that Apple expected it to come out "any month now" would indicate a serious communication breakdown.
Now, I can imagine Steve pissed as all hell at Motorola for the apparent cancellation of the Mot G5, and for the 9 month delay of the 7457 - on top of everything else that's happened over the last three years. I'd guess that the expanded PowerBook line was supposed to come out with the 7457 (announced at MWSF, shipping some time later), and the fact that they still appeared with 7455s tells me that Apple knew in at least late 2002 that the 7457 had been significantly delayed, and had gone to plan B. The 7457 is currently planned to appear 9 months or so after the arrival of the most recent PowerBooks, and since PowerBooks are updated roughly on a 9+ month schedule, that's when I expect MPC7457 powered notebooks to appear. Unless, of course, Apple baffles us all by rolling out a 970 based upgrade - but that's a wild card.
This thread is older than 24 hours now so let's assess what we think we know:
1. The next powerbook will either be powered by a new Motorola processor, scheduled to be released in Q4 or some variant of the 970 (which hasn't shipped yet in a tower).
2. The powerbooks haven't been updated since Steve declared this to be the year of the powerbook in January.
3. The fact that the 15" is a generation behind on case, firewire, airport, bluetooth suggests it is most ready for an update
The problem is all in point 1 you see. There's no new processor to put in the damn things no matter what supplier Apple chooses. I think it's folly to suggest Apple hasn't invented a motherboard for the powerbook that can take the 970. What Apple is waiting for is for one of these two suppliers to manufacture a damned chip to put in these babies. (I know someone who worked for Apple less than two years ago and saw dual G4 powerbook prototypes back then. These guys have a lot of irons in the fire, and can make unoptimized motherboards pretty much overnight.)
The first supplier to give them silicon determines what goes into the next powerbook. Motorola's unreliability really gives Apple no choice - they'll take a chip from Mot if Mot makes one, but they sure as hell can't put all their eggs in that basket.
You can imagine how frustrating this must be for Apple themselves. There's undoubtedly a big campaign set to go for a powerbook G5, which may or may not be the next powerbook release. Buying media for that campaign is really tough if it happens to come out in fall, because TV is basically sold out already. This isn't complicated strategy, it's simply manufacturing products with supplies you can get your hands on and then doing the best you can to promote it.
Another Tuesday and no new PBs. I just read some of the posts above and it seems some posters aren't up on what's going on. Motorola has stated that 7457 production has been moved up to Q3 from Q4. We're in Q3 and this quarter ends Sept. 30.
There will most likely be a revision in Sept. but I keep hoping Apple will surprise us. Oh, well.
The main problem with developing a G5 PB is not the processor. It's the controller. It's not even the heat or availability of the processor. It's the size and the heat generated by the controller which needs to be on the mobo since it isn't on the processor die yet. A .13µ process won't do. A new .09µ process is called for and that isn't an easy task. A current process G5 at 1.2 GHz could work but a 1.8 GHz G5 at .09µ would be much better.
It's possible that Apple can put together a G5 PB for a March roll out but July would be better. Anyone who thinks Apple can ship a G5 PB this fall might also wish upon a star and open a window for the blue fairy or open a door for Elijah.
Another Tuesday and no new PBs. I just read some of the posts above and it seems some posters aren't up on what's going on. Motorola has stated that 7457 production has been moved up to Q3 from Q4. We're in Q3 and this quarter ends Sept. 30.
There will most likely be a revision in Sept. but I keep hoping Apple will surprise us. Oh, well.
The main problem with developing a G5 PB is not the processor. It's the controller. It's not even the heat or availability of the processor. It's the size and the heat generated by the controller which needs to be on the mobo since it isn't on the processor die yet. A .13µ process won't do. A new .09µ process is called for and that isn't an easy task. A current process G5 at 1.2 GHz could work but a 1.8 GHz G5 at .09µ would be much better.
It's possible that Apple can put together a G5 PB for a March roll out but July would be better. Anyone who thinks Apple can ship a G5 PB this fall might also wish upon a star and open a window for the blue fairy or open a door for Elijah.
anyone who comes on here and claims to have any sort of knowledge ow what's going on the reasons for such "delays", such as your yourself, can also listen to your suggestion to wish upon a sotry and open a window for the blue fairy or open a door for Elijah
Not picking on you in particular but I think a lot of people expect Apple to act in a very linear fashion. If Apple were a 25M$ company with five engineers I could see them behaving as the forums suggest. Apple has a 500M$ R&D budget. They must have all sorts of projects going on trying out various alternatives. They must fund various "Plan B" projects which will likely never see the light of day. And they are constrained in their actions by various suppliers. The point is, it is extremely difficult for an outsider with spotty information to predict _what_ Apple will do and darn near impossible to predict _when_ they will do it.
I'll bet that there are many different prototypes around Apple; however, Jack doesn't talk about proto's - he discusses production runs. He's mentioned at his site in Jan that there were 2 weeks of two shift production of the new Al PB 15 on the shelf. That's not proto work - that's production. If Apple's running that much production and tossing it, I'd be surprised. He's also talked about production runs of a G5 AL PB 15 due at WWDC, which did not materialize. Again, production not prototype.
I really wanted to get the 15 inch alum. powerbook for my on-site admin work. Based on everything I hear, however, it will not be out until Septermber. So I got the IBM R40 on buy.com for $1,098.00 as an interim solution. I have a lot of stuff to do in the next month and simply could not wait any longer.
Another Tuesday and no new PBs. I just read some of the posts above and it seems some posters aren't up on what's going on. Motorola has stated that 7457 production has been moved up to Q3 from Q4. We're in Q3 and this quarter ends Sept. 30.
Pardon me if I automatically discount anything from Mot that says they're ahead of schedule.
I'm aware that Mot is sampling 7457s right now, but I'm still expecting a Q4 release, or close enough. Even if Mot does get the '57 out the door before the end of September, we won't see a PowerBook before Q4.
O'Grady's PowerPage claims that engineering problems are what's plaguing the new 15-inch PowerBook. They also claim that the 17-inch PowerBook has been EOL'd.
Engineering problems? That means that they've either run into a really wierd snag, or they're trying an ambitious overhaul (i.e., not just catching the 15" up to the 17").
...or it means that O'Grady is running at its usual (fairly low) level of reliability as a rumors source.
O'Grady's PowerPage claims that engineering problems are what's plaguing the new 15-inch PowerBook.
And how do they reconcile that with their statements, going back to March if not earlier, that new 15-inch PowerBooks were in warehouses ready to ship?
Aluminum PowerBook 15-Inch Still In Beta, PB17 EOL
Tuesday, July 29, 2003
Parks Bonifay
From the Hardware Dept.
According to PowerPage sources Apple engineers are still having some problems with some aspects of the new Aluminum PowerBook 15-inch. The issues are not significant but they aren't fixed yet either.
Motorola are trying their best to ramp up production of the PowerPC 7457 processors, but the yields are low, so they don't want to start delivering them quite yet. There are still a few 15-Inch Ti's out there in the channel sitting on shelves too.
The new 15.4-inch screen is really bright, and the nVidia graphics chip is pretty strong. Fan noise has been an issue though. The industrial design is really sharp, it fits right in between the 17 and the 12. It looks so good it will sell it self once the bugs are worked out of the machine.
As previously stated the current 1GHz PB17 is EOL (end of lifed) with revision B expected shortly.
If this is true, they may be having heat issues. If they're trying to be ambitious with the chip, running the bus at 200 MHz, and trying to goose the speed a bit, that could increase the load along with a more powerful GPU. It isn't easy to balance the heat load with the variable fan speed controller. I'm surprised, though, that they'd be having these sorts of basic engineering problems at this late stage. It seems like 7457 availability should be the main issue.
Gee, the way things are sounding, maybe Amorph is right and we won't see these things until October or so.
Engineering issues could be anything. It doesn't mean Apple is pushing the envelope. It could involve cracking connectors, noisy cables, wrong finish on metal parts. Engineering issues can arise anywhere. Remember the loose batteries on the original Ti PB? Not exactly a high tech problem but still a problem.
It isn't easy to balance the heat load with the variable fan speed controller.
The 12" gets pretty warm too, with only one fan blowing. The 17" at least has two fans that disipate heat from the hard disc and the superdrive. Not sure why a 15" model would require more cooling if it's just the GPU that is being bumped. Maybe they are adding the full compliment of "stuff" like the 17" has - ?
Comments
Originally posted by onit
My lombard from '99 would still be chugging along nicely if some absentminded twit (no, not me) didn't spill coke all over it. It still works but needs a hard reset a few times a day. Also, mine was made in the few months when daughtercards we'd later find out were incompatible with OSX were being slapped in. I would like to update more often but, unless I get an unexpected salary hike, it ain't gonna happen.
Sorry to here about the coke incident. In my case some absentminded twit (yes, me
This is the nature of laptops. They are subject to much more agitation than towers.
Originally posted by neutrino23
Sorry to here about the coke incident. In my case some absentminded twit (yes, me
This is the nature of laptops. They are subject to much more agitation than towers.
I spilled root beer *inside* my tower.
Originally posted by DHagan4755
Could it be that you are right? Could it be that Jack Campbell and MacWhispers is right too?
Well, I can see how your chain of events could happen... and it does sound logical. I find myself doing this alot and the only problem is that given the little that we know, there are many logical chain of events that could fit our facts.
And I think you give MacWhispers too much credit. Jack has predicted everything from 15 inch Al PB's in Jan, Feb, Mar, and April, to G5 PB's and now that the Ti model will continue on with a minimal processor change. I mean the only thing he hasn't predicted is that hamsters running on wheels will power the next PB.
He even claims that he scored a hit on the iPods, but forgets that he predicted video iPods, different HD sizes, said ThinkSecret was wrong, said they'd go to plastic backs, etc, etc.
He puts so much stuff up and it's so all over the map, that he's gotta get something right eventually. Even a blind squirrel will find a nut in the forrest eventually ( sorry about the rodent fixation... ).
I'm not saying you're worng and what you propose makes sense, just adding my $.02.
Originally posted by macmike
According to the latest Appleinsider news, Motorola sucks. Apple was hoping to release the Powerbook update at WWDC
It's only a RUMOR. The WWDC keynote was the perfect event to introduce the G5 PowerMac, not for a G4 speedbump.
Originally posted by macmike
then pushed it back to MacWorld NY and still hasn't seen enough supply of the new chips to release the product.
Motorola said this chip will be available in Q4 2003. Steve should read their press release.
Originally posted by chazmox
And I think you give MacWhispers too much credit. Jack has predicted everything from 15 inch Al PB's in Jan, Feb, Mar, and April, to G5 PB's and now that the Ti model will continue on with a minimal processor change. I mean the only thing he hasn't predicted is that hamsters running on wheels will power the next PB.
...
He puts so much stuff up and it's so all over the map, that he's gotta get something right eventually. Even a blind squirrel will find a nut in the forrest eventually ( sorry about the rodent fixation... ).
Not picking on you in particular but I think a lot of people expect Apple to act in a very linear fashion. If Apple were a 25M$ company with five engineers I could see them behaving as the forums suggest. Apple has a 500M$ R&D budget. They must have all sorts of projects going on trying out various alternatives. They must fund various "Plan B" projects which will likely never see the light of day. And they are constrained in their actions by various suppliers. The point is, it is extremely difficult for an outsider with spotty information to predict _what_ Apple will do and darn near impossible to predict _when_ they will do it.
I'm not defending Jack in particular, I have no way of knowing anything about his character. My point is that second guessing Apple (or any similar sized company) is a very difficult problem (even for many of those inside Apple).
Now, I can imagine Steve pissed as all hell at Motorola for the apparent cancellation of the Mot G5, and for the 9 month delay of the 7457 - on top of everything else that's happened over the last three years. I'd guess that the expanded PowerBook line was supposed to come out with the 7457 (announced at MWSF, shipping some time later), and the fact that they still appeared with 7455s tells me that Apple knew in at least late 2002 that the 7457 had been significantly delayed, and had gone to plan B. The 7457 is currently planned to appear 9 months or so after the arrival of the most recent PowerBooks, and since PowerBooks are updated roughly on a 9+ month schedule, that's when I expect MPC7457 powered notebooks to appear. Unless, of course, Apple baffles us all by rolling out a 970 based upgrade - but that's a wild card.
This thread is older than 24 hours now
1. The next powerbook will either be powered by a new Motorola processor, scheduled to be released in Q4 or some variant of the 970 (which hasn't shipped yet in a tower).
2. The powerbooks haven't been updated since Steve declared this to be the year of the powerbook in January.
3. The fact that the 15" is a generation behind on case, firewire, airport, bluetooth suggests it is most ready for an update
The problem is all in point 1 you see. There's no new processor to put in the damn things no matter what supplier Apple chooses. I think it's folly to suggest Apple hasn't invented a motherboard for the powerbook that can take the 970. What Apple is waiting for is for one of these two suppliers to manufacture a damned chip to put in these babies. (I know someone who worked for Apple less than two years ago and saw dual G4 powerbook prototypes back then. These guys have a lot of irons in the fire, and can make unoptimized motherboards pretty much overnight.)
The first supplier to give them silicon determines what goes into the next powerbook. Motorola's unreliability really gives Apple no choice - they'll take a chip from Mot if Mot makes one, but they sure as hell can't put all their eggs in that basket.
You can imagine how frustrating this must be for Apple themselves. There's undoubtedly a big campaign set to go for a powerbook G5, which may or may not be the next powerbook release. Buying media for that campaign is really tough if it happens to come out in fall, because TV is basically sold out already. This isn't complicated strategy, it's simply manufacturing products with supplies you can get your hands on and then doing the best you can to promote it.
Originally posted by vr6
I know someone who worked for Apple less than two years ago
Hey, so do I! Only my guy saw the quad-G5 iPods with 3" full-color screen we've been hearing so much about. Maybe our guys knew each other?
There will most likely be a revision in Sept. but I keep hoping Apple will surprise us. Oh, well.
The main problem with developing a G5 PB is not the processor. It's the controller. It's not even the heat or availability of the processor. It's the size and the heat generated by the controller which needs to be on the mobo since it isn't on the processor die yet. A .13µ process won't do. A new .09µ process is called for and that isn't an easy task. A current process G5 at 1.2 GHz could work but a 1.8 GHz G5 at .09µ would be much better.
It's possible that Apple can put together a G5 PB for a March roll out but July would be better. Anyone who thinks Apple can ship a G5 PB this fall might also wish upon a star and open a window for the blue fairy or open a door for Elijah.
Originally posted by Rolo
Another Tuesday and no new PBs. I just read some of the posts above and it seems some posters aren't up on what's going on. Motorola has stated that 7457 production has been moved up to Q3 from Q4. We're in Q3 and this quarter ends Sept. 30.
There will most likely be a revision in Sept. but I keep hoping Apple will surprise us. Oh, well.
The main problem with developing a G5 PB is not the processor. It's the controller. It's not even the heat or availability of the processor. It's the size and the heat generated by the controller which needs to be on the mobo since it isn't on the processor die yet. A .13µ process won't do. A new .09µ process is called for and that isn't an easy task. A current process G5 at 1.2 GHz could work but a 1.8 GHz G5 at .09µ would be much better.
It's possible that Apple can put together a G5 PB for a March roll out but July would be better. Anyone who thinks Apple can ship a G5 PB this fall might also wish upon a star and open a window for the blue fairy or open a door for Elijah.
anyone who comes on here and claims to have any sort of knowledge ow what's going on the reasons for such "delays", such as your yourself, can also listen to your suggestion to wish upon a sotry and open a window for the blue fairy or open a door for Elijah
Originally posted by neutrino23
Not picking on you in particular but I think a lot of people expect Apple to act in a very linear fashion. If Apple were a 25M$ company with five engineers I could see them behaving as the forums suggest. Apple has a 500M$ R&D budget. They must have all sorts of projects going on trying out various alternatives. They must fund various "Plan B" projects which will likely never see the light of day. And they are constrained in their actions by various suppliers. The point is, it is extremely difficult for an outsider with spotty information to predict _what_ Apple will do and darn near impossible to predict _when_ they will do it.
I'll bet that there are many different prototypes around Apple; however, Jack doesn't talk about proto's - he discusses production runs. He's mentioned at his site in Jan that there were 2 weeks of two shift production of the new Al PB 15 on the shelf. That's not proto work - that's production. If Apple's running that much production and tossing it, I'd be surprised. He's also talked about production runs of a G5 AL PB 15 due at WWDC, which did not materialize. Again, production not prototype.
I really wanted to get the 15 inch alum. powerbook for my on-site admin work. Based on everything I hear, however, it will not be out until Septermber. So I got the IBM R40 on buy.com for $1,098.00 as an interim solution. I have a lot of stuff to do in the next month and simply could not wait any longer.
Originally posted by Rolo
Another Tuesday and no new PBs. I just read some of the posts above and it seems some posters aren't up on what's going on. Motorola has stated that 7457 production has been moved up to Q3 from Q4. We're in Q3 and this quarter ends Sept. 30.
Pardon me if I automatically discount anything from Mot that says they're ahead of schedule.
I'm aware that Mot is sampling 7457s right now, but I'm still expecting a Q4 release, or close enough. Even if Mot does get the '57 out the door before the end of September, we won't see a PowerBook before Q4.
...or it means that O'Grady is running at its usual (fairly low) level of reliability as a rumors source.
Originally posted by DHagan4755
O'Grady's PowerPage claims that engineering problems are what's plaguing the new 15-inch PowerBook.
And how do they reconcile that with their statements, going back to March if not earlier, that new 15-inch PowerBooks were in warehouses ready to ship?
Aluminum PowerBook 15-Inch Still In Beta, PB17 EOL
Tuesday, July 29, 2003
Parks Bonifay
From the Hardware Dept.
According to PowerPage sources Apple engineers are still having some problems with some aspects of the new Aluminum PowerBook 15-inch. The issues are not significant but they aren't fixed yet either.
Motorola are trying their best to ramp up production of the PowerPC 7457 processors, but the yields are low, so they don't want to start delivering them quite yet. There are still a few 15-Inch Ti's out there in the channel sitting on shelves too.
The new 15.4-inch screen is really bright, and the nVidia graphics chip is pretty strong. Fan noise has been an issue though. The industrial design is really sharp, it fits right in between the 17 and the 12. It looks so good it will sell it self once the bugs are worked out of the machine.
As previously stated the current 1GHz PB17 is EOL (end of lifed) with revision B expected shortly.
If this is true, they may be having heat issues. If they're trying to be ambitious with the chip, running the bus at 200 MHz, and trying to goose the speed a bit, that could increase the load along with a more powerful GPU. It isn't easy to balance the heat load with the variable fan speed controller. I'm surprised, though, that they'd be having these sorts of basic engineering problems at this late stage. It seems like 7457 availability should be the main issue.
Gee, the way things are sounding, maybe Amorph is right and we won't see these things until October or so.
Originally posted by Rolo
It isn't easy to balance the heat load with the variable fan speed controller.
The 12" gets pretty warm too, with only one fan blowing. The 17" at least has two fans that disipate heat from the hard disc and the superdrive. Not sure why a 15" model would require more cooling if it's just the GPU that is being bumped. Maybe they are adding the full compliment of "stuff" like the 17" has - ?
What extremes! Too small and too big. A 15" model really needs to slide in between and round off the line up.
BTW, this has got to be one of the most viewed threads in AI history.