One tip: Don't buy RAM from Apple. Buy 3rd party, from somewhere like Crucial.com. Apple's RAM is incredibly expensive, and upgrading RAM is a trivial task.
I've got both platforms. If I were to switch today, I'd want to wait for the G5. When you switch you want to be overwhelmed, not slightly impressed.
Sure, it will be better, but it won't be a massive improvement. Better to offset the pains of learning a new OS with the joy of an amazingly fast machine, IMO.
Or consider NOT switching. The G5's look like a decent deal if you're in that end of the market, but Apple really doesn't offer much value to the consumer desktop customer.
A friend and colleague just bought an HP PC for 1700 CANADIAN, splits the difference between an eMac combo and an eMac Superdrive, think 1100USD. For that money she got:
-P4 2.66
-512MB, 533Mhz FSB
-120GB HDD
-GeForce4 64MB
-DVD ROM
-48X CDRW
-6-in-1 media reader
-Front and rear USB2.0 and FW400, 10/100 ethernet, and v92 56K modem.
-HK speakers
and
A very nice 1280x1024 17" LCD! It's analogue, but very bright, sharp and steady, with a great viewing angle. I want one for my Powerbook, it's so nice, good ergonomic articulation too, just like the iMac arm, except it doesn't swing side to side, but it lifts and tilts independently.
It's a very good deal from where I sit. I went over today to share of the wealth that institutional copies of M$ software might bring, haha... and we made her system restore discs from the disc image. HP has it set up so you just click a couple of buttons and plop in the discs at the prompt. Kinda cheap, considering a disc shouldn't cost them more than 25 cents to include, but still, it wasn't difficult.
The system is very nice and extremely quite, surprise of surprises perhaps, reading the mac web you'd sometimes think PC's were helicopters or something, but I tell you this thing is as quiet as an iMac.
Friendly too. It's all pre-installed and ready to go out of the box, no fiddling, just hook it up and go, works like a treat.
iApps are better if you do iAppy stuff, but if it's primarily an Office, internet, e-mail machine, the display alone is worth a lot more than what you would get from Apple for the same money.
But getting back to your needs, the PC I mention probably won't do anything for you that your current machine doesn't do, so you may as well just stick with it.
I too was a windows user, before I swtiched (Nov 2001). Never missed using my PC. A few things I really liked about the mac or mac platfrom ease of use,the GUI is very simple and really beautiful, OS X crashes were much less than my previous windows machine and last but not the least the mac community is much more helpful than the PC community.
The main reason why I want to switch is I'm just sick and tired of the instability that Windows has.
All I want is a computer that is stable and robust that lets me run a small business, access the internet (web/ftp/chat/e-mail/usenet/etc), do office work (Microsoft Office) and play a few games (halflife/warcraft 3/starcraft).
The G4 mac caught my eye because of the huge price drop since the G5 has been launched.
The main reason why I want to switch is I'm just sick and tired of the instability that Windows has.
All I want is a computer that is stable and robust that lets me run a small business, access the internet (web/ftp/chat/e-mail/usenet/etc), do office work (Microsoft Office) and play a few games (halflife/warcraft 3/starcraft).
The G4 mac caught my eye because of the huge price drop since the G5 has been launched.
How much stability does "Office" need. Windows update couped with a good virus program and some good habits regarding e-mail and web browsing will keep your PC virus free.
What's in your system that makes it so unstable now? So far, HP's PC offering looks really good. It isn't the fastest system in town, but for your money you get a very nice display that Apple would seriously overcharge for, not to mention you can pay eMac money for dual G4 performance.
If you're not too demanding of the system, I'd say that the beautiful display wins out. It's what you will look at most anyway.
Mac desktops are a seriously bad deal ATM, if you really want to switch, wait for them to do better, both in price and features, and also performance (for consumers)
Besides spending too much money on too little of an improvement, what does he get from switching computers?
Fact is consumer desktop macs still cost way too much and come with way too little when for the cost of an eMac you can get a fully equipped tower PC with a beautiful 17" LCD, something for which Apple wants nearly twice as much.
<What's in your system that makes it so unstable now? So far, HP's PC offering looks really good.>
Oh, I can build my own machine. The machine I'm currently using was built by me.
<What's in your system that makes it so unstable now?>
It's all around flakey. It seems the longer I leave it on, the more sluggish and unresponsive it gets. Why? My linux computer doesn't behave like this.
Not to mention, when I managed a computer dept, I know all of our windows machines were always been restored for crashing, locking-up, etc. Our mac displays, despite heavy tampering with (customers love to play with the displays) went strong for months on end without needing one system restore.
Do you need to get a display? While you can build your own system, it doesn't look like that went too well for you last time round. Is the linux system the same as the Windows system? Perhaps some of the components you chose aren't the best fit for each other, (the drivers) or the OS?
Before you spend money needlessly, why not tear down the PC and rebuild it with current drivers and a fresh install of XP (and all the security updates) after you erase everything and reformat. might take a day, but it's better than spending 1500 plus. Do you make $1500 a day, weekends that busy?
<While you can build your own system, it doesn't look like that went too well for you last time round. Is the linux system the same as the Windows system?>
More or less.
<Perhaps some of the components you chose aren't the best fit for each other, (the drivers) or the OS?>
I doubt it. Every piece of hardware I bought carries the Microsoft "Designed for Windows XP" seal of approval. If Microsoft doesn't know what hardware works well with its OS, then who does?
<Before you spend money needlessly, why not tear down the PC and rebuild it with current drivers> As in new hardware? Why? If Microsoft says my hardware should perfect with its OS, I shouldn't have to do this.
<and a fresh install of XP (and all the security updates) after you erase everything and reformat.>
I've done this a few times. I'm a Windows user, remember? :0
I have had XP at work for about 6 weeks now - it has been working terribly on my PC - and it has now been reinstalled 3 times by 'experts'. Meawhile, my 'old' iMac on OSX has been rock solid since 10.1 came out, even though the only 'expert' to touch it has been me (and I am certainly not an expert).
However, I know all of this is anecdotal. That is the problem with forums such as these. We all suspect, but cannot prove, that Macs on OSX are more stable and easier to manage than PCs on XP. I do wish there were solid stats on this, but I haven't seen them.
The only time I've seen really horrible PC's were the old Compaqs in my former workplace. Horrible, but then we had 11 computers sharing one 56K connection and wires hanging everywhere, and old machines. And one other very buggy machine (an IBM) that never seemed to work right. The new HP's I've seen, two of them, both work perfectly, my own ancient AMD 300 PC and newer P4 Gateway both run flawlessly.
Perhaps you aren't as expert at building your own PC as you think, or there is a faulty component somewhere,
PS, as I type this I just saw my first televised G5 commercial.
Or consider NOT switching. The G5's look like a decent deal if you're in that end of the market, but Apple really doesn't offer much value to the consumer desktop customer.
A friend and colleague just bought an HP PC for 1700 CANADIAN, splits the difference between an eMac combo and an eMac Superdrive, think 1100USD. For that money she got:
-P4 2.66
-512MB, 533Mhz FSB
-120GB HDD
-GeForce4 64MB
-DVD ROM
-48X CDRW
-6-in-1 media reader
-Front and rear USB2.0 and FW400, 10/100 ethernet, and v92 56K modem.
-HK speakers
and
A very nice 1280x1024 17" LCD! It's analogue, but very bright, sharp and steady, with a great viewing angle. I want one for my Powerbook, it's so nice, good ergonomic articulation too, just like the iMac arm, except it doesn't swing side to side, but it lifts and tilts independently.
It's a very good deal from where I sit. I went over today to share of the wealth that institutional copies of M$ software might bring, haha... and we made her system restore discs from the disc image. HP has it set up so you just click a couple of buttons and plop in the discs at the prompt. Kinda cheap, considering a disc shouldn't cost them more than 25 cents to include, but still, it wasn't difficult.
The system is very nice and extremely quite, surprise of surprises perhaps, reading the mac web you'd sometimes think PC's were helicopters or something, but I tell you this thing is as quiet as an iMac.
Friendly too. It's all pre-installed and ready to go out of the box, no fiddling, just hook it up and go, works like a treat.
iApps are better if you do iAppy stuff, but if it's primarily an Office, internet, e-mail machine, the display alone is worth a lot more than what you would get from Apple for the same money.
But getting back to your needs, the PC I mention probably won't do anything for you that your current machine doesn't do, so you may as well just stick with it.
It is a matter of perspective. In my mind that HP you are describing is a rip-off -- I build PCs that will give you a lot more power for your hard earned $ then that overpriced HP.
Apple's problem has been the poor performance of the G4 and the underpowered system bus. The G5 and new architecture for the powermacs has fixed that, and the new tech should trickle down to the iMac in a few more months.
Of corse, all this is off topic: pas1x did not complain that his computer is to slow, he wanted something more stable then windows that will play some games (halflife/warcraft 3/starcraft) and run MS office. A 1.2ghz G4 will do that nicely.
pas1x -- if you can get the G4 really cheap, it will be a nice introduction to OS X, iApps, and the rest of the world of Apple. I have to admit that I would save up some more money and go for a G5 (I'm holding out for the dual 2Ghz).
Does he? His current use doesn't sound that critical.
As for the relative value of the system, I think you might struggle to match it (part for part) remember that includes the 17" LCD screen and Windows XP. You could beat it building your own, but if that leaves the HP behind, it leaves a consumer mac desktop even further behind.
Comments
the bsd subsystem is more responsive than win32
(being good old unix)
the gui is slower being vector based as opposed to
bitmap drawn aka win32
stick with the p4 & wait for the g5
which would be a better buy
The 1.25 G4 is a pretty fast computer and it will be even more fluid once Panther is out.
Go for it!
Unless you jsut wanna wait for the G5
Sure, it will be better, but it won't be a massive improvement. Better to offset the pains of learning a new OS with the joy of an amazingly fast machine, IMO.
A friend and colleague just bought an HP PC for 1700 CANADIAN, splits the difference between an eMac combo and an eMac Superdrive, think 1100USD. For that money she got:
-P4 2.66
-512MB, 533Mhz FSB
-120GB HDD
-GeForce4 64MB
-DVD ROM
-48X CDRW
-6-in-1 media reader
-Front and rear USB2.0 and FW400, 10/100 ethernet, and v92 56K modem.
-HK speakers
and
A very nice 1280x1024 17" LCD! It's analogue, but very bright, sharp and steady, with a great viewing angle. I want one for my Powerbook, it's so nice, good ergonomic articulation too, just like the iMac arm, except it doesn't swing side to side, but it lifts and tilts independently.
It's a very good deal from where I sit. I went over today to share of the wealth that institutional copies of M$ software might bring, haha... and we made her system restore discs from the disc image. HP has it set up so you just click a couple of buttons and plop in the discs at the prompt. Kinda cheap, considering a disc shouldn't cost them more than 25 cents to include, but still, it wasn't difficult.
The system is very nice and extremely quite, surprise of surprises perhaps, reading the mac web you'd sometimes think PC's were helicopters or something, but I tell you this thing is as quiet as an iMac.
Friendly too. It's all pre-installed and ready to go out of the box, no fiddling, just hook it up and go, works like a treat.
iApps are better if you do iAppy stuff, but if it's primarily an Office, internet, e-mail machine, the display alone is worth a lot more than what you would get from Apple for the same money.
But getting back to your needs, the PC I mention probably won't do anything for you that your current machine doesn't do, so you may as well just stick with it.
The main reason why I want to switch is I'm just sick and tired of the instability that Windows has.
All I want is a computer that is stable and robust that lets me run a small business, access the internet (web/ftp/chat/e-mail/usenet/etc), do office work (Microsoft Office) and play a few games (halflife/warcraft 3/starcraft).
The G4 mac caught my eye because of the huge price drop since the G5 has been launched.
Cheers,
-pas1x
The main reason why I want to switch is I'm just sick and tired of the instability that Windows has.
All I want is a computer that is stable and robust that lets me run a small business, access the internet (web/ftp/chat/e-mail/usenet/etc), do office work (Microsoft Office) and play a few games (halflife/warcraft 3/starcraft).
The G4 mac caught my eye because of the huge price drop since the G5 has been launched.
Cheers,
-pas1x
What's in your system that makes it so unstable now? So far, HP's PC offering looks really good. It isn't the fastest system in town, but for your money you get a very nice display that Apple would seriously overcharge for, not to mention you can pay eMac money for dual G4 performance.
If you're not too demanding of the system, I'd say that the beautiful display wins out. It's what you will look at most anyway.
Mac desktops are a seriously bad deal ATM, if you really want to switch, wait for them to do better, both in price and features, and also performance (for consumers)
Originally posted by Matsu
Or consider NOT switching.
Fact is consumer desktop macs still cost way too much and come with way too little when for the cost of an eMac you can get a fully equipped tower PC with a beautiful 17" LCD, something for which Apple wants nearly twice as much.
Oh, I can build my own machine. The machine I'm currently using was built by me.
<What's in your system that makes it so unstable now?>
It's all around flakey. It seems the longer I leave it on, the more sluggish and unresponsive it gets. Why? My linux computer doesn't behave like this.
Not to mention, when I managed a computer dept, I know all of our windows machines were always been restored for crashing, locking-up, etc. Our mac displays, despite heavy tampering with (customers love to play with the displays) went strong for months on end without needing one system restore.
That really caught my eye.
Cheers,
-pas1x
Before you spend money needlessly, why not tear down the PC and rebuild it with current drivers and a fresh install of XP (and all the security updates) after you erase everything and reformat. might take a day, but it's better than spending 1500 plus. Do you make $1500 a day, weekends that busy?
More or less.
<Perhaps some of the components you chose aren't the best fit for each other, (the drivers) or the OS?>
I doubt it. Every piece of hardware I bought carries the Microsoft "Designed for Windows XP" seal of approval. If Microsoft doesn't know what hardware works well with its OS, then who does?
<Before you spend money needlessly, why not tear down the PC and rebuild it with current drivers> As in new hardware? Why? If Microsoft says my hardware should perfect with its OS, I shouldn't have to do this.
<and a fresh install of XP (and all the security updates) after you erase everything and reformat.>
I've done this a few times. I'm a Windows user, remember? :0
Cheers,
-pas1x
However, I know all of this is anecdotal. That is the problem with forums such as these. We all suspect, but cannot prove, that Macs on OSX are more stable and easier to manage than PCs on XP. I do wish there were solid stats on this, but I haven't seen them.
Perhaps you aren't as expert at building your own PC as you think, or there is a faulty component somewhere,
PS, as I type this I just saw my first televised G5 commercial.
Goodnight.
Originally posted by Matsu
Or consider NOT switching. The G5's look like a decent deal if you're in that end of the market, but Apple really doesn't offer much value to the consumer desktop customer.
A friend and colleague just bought an HP PC for 1700 CANADIAN, splits the difference between an eMac combo and an eMac Superdrive, think 1100USD. For that money she got:
-P4 2.66
-512MB, 533Mhz FSB
-120GB HDD
-GeForce4 64MB
-DVD ROM
-48X CDRW
-6-in-1 media reader
-Front and rear USB2.0 and FW400, 10/100 ethernet, and v92 56K modem.
-HK speakers
and
A very nice 1280x1024 17" LCD! It's analogue, but very bright, sharp and steady, with a great viewing angle. I want one for my Powerbook, it's so nice, good ergonomic articulation too, just like the iMac arm, except it doesn't swing side to side, but it lifts and tilts independently.
It's a very good deal from where I sit. I went over today to share of the wealth that institutional copies of M$ software might bring, haha... and we made her system restore discs from the disc image. HP has it set up so you just click a couple of buttons and plop in the discs at the prompt. Kinda cheap, considering a disc shouldn't cost them more than 25 cents to include, but still, it wasn't difficult.
The system is very nice and extremely quite, surprise of surprises perhaps, reading the mac web you'd sometimes think PC's were helicopters or something, but I tell you this thing is as quiet as an iMac.
Friendly too. It's all pre-installed and ready to go out of the box, no fiddling, just hook it up and go, works like a treat.
iApps are better if you do iAppy stuff, but if it's primarily an Office, internet, e-mail machine, the display alone is worth a lot more than what you would get from Apple for the same money.
But getting back to your needs, the PC I mention probably won't do anything for you that your current machine doesn't do, so you may as well just stick with it.
It is a matter of perspective. In my mind that HP you are describing is a rip-off -- I build PCs that will give you a lot more power for your hard earned $ then that overpriced HP.
Apple's problem has been the poor performance of the G4 and the underpowered system bus. The G5 and new architecture for the powermacs has fixed that, and the new tech should trickle down to the iMac in a few more months.
Of corse, all this is off topic: pas1x did not complain that his computer is to slow, he wanted something more stable then windows that will play some games (halflife/warcraft 3/starcraft) and run MS office. A 1.2ghz G4 will do that nicely.
pas1x -- if you can get the G4 really cheap, it will be a nice introduction to OS X, iApps, and the rest of the world of Apple. I have to admit that I would save up some more money and go for a G5 (I'm holding out for the dual 2Ghz).
Originally posted by Matsu
Besides spending too much money on too little of an improvement, what does he get from switching computers?
TCO.
Originally posted by bunge
TCO.
Does he? His current use doesn't sound that critical.
As for the relative value of the system, I think you might struggle to match it (part for part) remember that includes the 17" LCD screen and Windows XP. You could beat it building your own, but if that leaves the HP behind, it leaves a consumer mac desktop even further behind.