you got to be joking. ask any one from HK and they will tell you that they are desparately welcoming the on slaught of mainland tourists spending money in HK nowadays. the British has sure as hell made a lot of money in HK- until a decade ago, any British bank can open in HK without applying for a license and anybody else had too. HSBC for years had only 20% of their assets in HK but HK contributed more than 40% to London's profits. The problems of HK today comes from the fact that the mainland does not need the various services provided by HK any more- trade trans-shipment, banking, legal and accounting services. Major western firms set up directly on the mainland and no longer using HK as a staging post. Property and stock market bubbles bursted. your comments should be based on facts and not jingoism.
Assume for a while that I am willing to agree with you that the mainland is not responsible for prolonging the economic recession in HK (this is not what I have heard from those who want to move from Taiwan to HK, but we all know how unfairly biased those from Taiwan are towards the mainland ).
I could go on and on. The mainland won't even let the people of Hong Kong elect their own representative. Instead you get a former shipping cronie who now has unchecked power over all of HK. It isn't very hard to read about how civil liberties are being trashed in HK.
Having been to the mainland to teach English, I can honestly say that the Chinese people are some of the nicest people I have met in the world. I have no jingoistic beef with the people of China. I love the people and I love a good portion of the culture. They are great and I want to go back to teach English again.
However, your government is a different story and it is difficult to have nothing but contempt for it, for how it deals with its citizens (indiffernce to SARS until it showed up in Beijing and Shanghai, reeducation camps for people with unfavorable religioius dispositionis- e.g. Christians and Falun Gong members). Your government sucks. I look forward to the day when the people of China are free from their government.
Assume for a while that I am willing to agree with you that the mainland is not responsible for prolonging the economic recession in HK (this is not what I have heard from those who want to move from Taiwan to HK, but we all know how unfairly biased those from Taiwan are towards the mainland ).
I could go on and on. The mainland won't even let the people of Hong Kong elect their own representative. Instead you get a former shipping cronie who now has unchecked power over all of HK. It isn't very hard to read about how civil liberties are being trashed in HK.
Having been to the mainland to teach English, I can honestly say that the Chinese people are some of the nicest people I have met in the world. I have no jingoistic beef with the people of China. I love the people and I love a good portion of the culture. They are great and I want to go back to teach English again.
However, your government is a different story and it is difficult to have nothing but contempt for it, for how it deals with its citizens (indiffernce to SARS until it showed up in Beijing and Shanghai, reeducation camps for people with unfavorable religioius dispositionis- e.g. Christians and Falun Gong members). Your government sucks. I look forward to the day when the people of China are free from their government.
I am saddened by the fact that a fellow Mac-afficienado can be so blind, especially for someone who claims love for the Chinese people and have been to China. You look at China as a fixed photo- this is wrong, that is wrong, this is no good and that is bad. For those of us who participated and watched the transformation of China up close over the last twenty years- I started coming to China twenty years ago on aid projects and moved to BJ fifteen years ago from NY,we look at it as a moving video- it has been a truly miracle that so much has and CONTINUE to change for the better. You would like to see an overnight transformation to "democracy" a la USSR? See where that leads you when you deal with a population of 1.3 billion out of which there are 800 million uneducated peasants! Probably much worse than just having the Mafia taken over and most likely complete anarchy and chaos ten times of the horrors that occured in USSR.How can you say "rid of the government"???? The government that at least has brought the standard of living up by multiples, fed the hungry, clothed the cold, provided housing and most of all, brought China into the international community and the 21st Century. There are problems, of course, but it is clearly and absolutely moving for the better (may not be fast enough for the arrogant and self-righteous ones in America but certainly it is moving).
I look forward to the day when Americans (I am one too) can stop being so self-righteous and self-centered. I look forward to the day when Americans can be more tolerant of others' ways. I look forward to the day when Americans can look things more in the historical prespective and encourage progress as they occur rather than jumping on things which they don't like and push others to adopt their own life and standards.
I am saddened by the fact that a fellow Mac-afficienado can be so blind, especially for someone who claims love for the Chinese people and have been to China. You look at China as a fixed photo- this is wrong, that is wrong, this is no good and that is bad. For those of us who participated and watched the transformation of China up close over the last twenty years- I started coming to China twenty years ago on aid projects and moved to BJ fifteen years ago from NY,we look at it as a moving video- it has been a truly miracle that so much has and CONTINUE to change for the better. You would like to see an overnight transformation to "democracy" a la USSR? See where that leads you when you deal with a population of 1.3 billion out of which there are 800 million uneducated peasants! Probably much worse than just having the Mafia taken over and most likely complete anarchy and chaos ten times of the horrors that occured in USSR.How can you say "rid of the government"???? The government that at least has brought the standard of living up by multiples, fed the hungry, clothed the cold, provided housing and most of all, brought China into the international community and the 21st Century. There are problems, of course, but it is clearly and absolutely moving for the better (may not be fast enough for the arrogant and self-righteous ones in America but certainly it is moving).
I look forward to the day when Americans (I am one too) can stop being so self-righteous and self-centered. I look forward to the day when Americans can be more tolerant of others' ways. I look forward to the day when Americans can look things more in the historical prespective and encourage progress as they occur rather than jumping on things which they don't like and push others to adopt their own life and standards.
I must have missed the part of the timeline when China would have more than one political party. Yes, the changes are dramatic, and economically speaking they are for the better.
I notice that you didn't bother to actually address the fact that the government doesn't give a damn about its citizens and that it runs prision labor camps to reeducate them if they don't think the right things. I guess that part of China's Stalinist past will go last? Or maybe one party control will go last?
Stop trying to slander me as some kind of self righteous American. I have plenty of scorn for the US, but at least over here we get to vote for our governors, even if silly actors are running for governor. In contrast, China appoints HK's governor and he has full freedom to ignore the population that he governs. In contrast, here in California, if we don't like our governor, we can recall him. If HKers could recall their governor, they would in a second.
If you want to actually discuss the Chinese government, then lets do so. If you want to just continue to try to label me as some kind of jingoist, then this discussion is at an end because you don't actually want to say anything about the issues. Your labeling me as some kind of self righteous jingoist is not actually forwarding your argument that the Chinese government is a good governmnet or that it should be kept in place, or that life is going well in HK.
Personally, I look forward to the day when the Chinese people have freedom. Freedom to think what they want to think and freedom to worship God as they see fit without fear of government reprisals.
Up to 58% (if you earn above a certain level and only on the amount above that).
In general you pay around 40-45% of your gross income in income tax.
Out of that 55-60% of your income you have to pay 25% VAT on everything you buy, and there are other taxes too (on gas, water, electricity and so on).
Wow. That must make it really hard to purchase anything with a substantial Kroner value. I pay bout 30% of my income in tax (I am in one of the higher tax brackets in the US). Sorry about the VAT. VAT really sucks (that is why you should just hop on a plane to new York and buy your powerbook there).
One of my classmates in college was from Denmark. Really smart guy. He really wanted to get a job in the US. Now I can see why.
I really like Europe for alot of the ammeneties it offers society, but the cost is rather prohibitive. I think that given the two, I would actually take fewer ammeneties for a larger disposable income. Of course, I have health insurance through my job, so a good portion of the safety net is provided for me already.
I must have missed the part of the timeline when China would have more than one political party. Yes, the changes are dramatic, and economically speaking they are for the better.
I notice that you didn't bother to actually address the fact that the government doesn't give a damn about its citizens and that it runs prision labor camps to reeducate them if they don't think the right things. I guess that part of China's Stalinist past will go last? Or maybe one party control will go last?
Stop trying to slander me as some kind of self righteous American. I have plenty of scorn for the US, but at least over here we get to vote for our governors, even if silly actors are running for governor. In contrast, China appoints HK's governor and he has full freedom to ignore the population that he governs. In contrast, here in California, if we don't like our governor, we can recall him. If HKers could recall their governor, they would in a second.
If you want to actually discuss the Chinese government, then lets do so. If you want to just continue to try to label me as some kind of jingoist, then this discussion is at an end because you don't actually want to say anything about the issues. Your labeling me as some kind of self righteous jingoist is not actually forwarding your argument that the Chinese government is a good governmnet or that it should be kept in place, or that life is going well in HK.
Personally, I look forward to the day when the Chinese people have freedom. Freedom to think what they want to think and freedom to worship God as they see fit without fear of government reprisals.
My my, need not get so defensive. Just go re-read your own original post that aroused my objection and you will see the self-righteousness. Don't sit in your arm chair and say the Chinese government don't give a damn about its people. I am in China and have been for the last fifteen years, thats not what I see.
Don't talk about freedom as a dreamy ideal- taxi drivers in BJ are telling dirty jokes about Jiang Zemin to passengers now (inconceivable 20 years ago)
Don't tell me about your God is getting shabby treatment, I am a member of the Buddist organization in Beijing and we have weekly outing by the thousands to temples without interference.
I think Massachusetts' tax is 5%, a little more or less. I don't necessarily pay attnetion
I never knew they charged tax on .Mac services. Seems odd. You can actually tax an internet purchase like that? Or do they actually send something by mail to you? I dunno it confuses me.
Comments
Originally posted by BJer
you got to be joking. ask any one from HK and they will tell you that they are desparately welcoming the on slaught of mainland tourists spending money in HK nowadays. the British has sure as hell made a lot of money in HK- until a decade ago, any British bank can open in HK without applying for a license and anybody else had too. HSBC for years had only 20% of their assets in HK but HK contributed more than 40% to London's profits. The problems of HK today comes from the fact that the mainland does not need the various services provided by HK any more- trade trans-shipment, banking, legal and accounting services. Major western firms set up directly on the mainland and no longer using HK as a staging post. Property and stock market bubbles bursted. your comments should be based on facts and not jingoism.
Assume for a while that I am willing to agree with you that the mainland is not responsible for prolonging the economic recession in HK (this is not what I have heard from those who want to move from Taiwan to HK, but we all know how unfairly biased those from Taiwan are towards the mainland
And the civil liberties situation???
Civil liberties may not survive
HK's appointed administrator indifferent to protests
Appointed administrator doesn't care about concerns of people
I could go on and on. The mainland won't even let the people of Hong Kong elect their own representative. Instead you get a former shipping cronie who now has unchecked power over all of HK. It isn't very hard to read about how civil liberties are being trashed in HK.
Having been to the mainland to teach English, I can honestly say that the Chinese people are some of the nicest people I have met in the world. I have no jingoistic beef with the people of China. I love the people and I love a good portion of the culture. They are great and I want to go back to teach English again.
However, your government is a different story and it is difficult to have nothing but contempt for it, for how it deals with its citizens (indiffernce to SARS until it showed up in Beijing and Shanghai, reeducation camps for people with unfavorable religioius dispositionis- e.g. Christians and Falun Gong members). Your government sucks. I look forward to the day when the people of China are free from their government.
Originally posted by JLL
25%
How... do... you... buy... things? Do you just avoid high value items? How high is your income tax?
Originally posted by Yevgeny
Assume for a while that I am willing to agree with you that the mainland is not responsible for prolonging the economic recession in HK (this is not what I have heard from those who want to move from Taiwan to HK, but we all know how unfairly biased those from Taiwan are towards the mainland
And the civil liberties situation???
Civil liberties may not survive
HK's appointed administrator indifferent to protests
Appointed administrator doesn't care about concerns of people
I could go on and on. The mainland won't even let the people of Hong Kong elect their own representative. Instead you get a former shipping cronie who now has unchecked power over all of HK. It isn't very hard to read about how civil liberties are being trashed in HK.
Having been to the mainland to teach English, I can honestly say that the Chinese people are some of the nicest people I have met in the world. I have no jingoistic beef with the people of China. I love the people and I love a good portion of the culture. They are great and I want to go back to teach English again.
However, your government is a different story and it is difficult to have nothing but contempt for it, for how it deals with its citizens (indiffernce to SARS until it showed up in Beijing and Shanghai, reeducation camps for people with unfavorable religioius dispositionis- e.g. Christians and Falun Gong members). Your government sucks. I look forward to the day when the people of China are free from their government.
I am saddened by the fact that a fellow Mac-afficienado can be so blind, especially for someone who claims love for the Chinese people and have been to China. You look at China as a fixed photo- this is wrong, that is wrong, this is no good and that is bad. For those of us who participated and watched the transformation of China up close over the last twenty years- I started coming to China twenty years ago on aid projects and moved to BJ fifteen years ago from NY,we look at it as a moving video- it has been a truly miracle that so much has and CONTINUE to change for the better. You would like to see an overnight transformation to "democracy" a la USSR? See where that leads you when you deal with a population of 1.3 billion out of which there are 800 million uneducated peasants! Probably much worse than just having the Mafia taken over and most likely complete anarchy and chaos ten times of the horrors that occured in USSR.How can you say "rid of the government"???? The government that at least has brought the standard of living up by multiples, fed the hungry, clothed the cold, provided housing and most of all, brought China into the international community and the 21st Century. There are problems, of course, but it is clearly and absolutely moving for the better (may not be fast enough for the arrogant and self-righteous ones in America but certainly it is moving).
I look forward to the day when Americans (I am one too) can stop being so self-righteous and self-centered. I look forward to the day when Americans can be more tolerant of others' ways. I look forward to the day when Americans can look things more in the historical prespective and encourage progress as they occur rather than jumping on things which they don't like and push others to adopt their own life and standards.
Originally posted by Yevgeny
How... do... you... buy... things? Do you just avoid high value items? How high is your income tax?
Up to 58% (if you earn above a certain level and only on the amount above that).
In general you pay around 40-45% of your gross income in income tax.
Out of that 55-60% of your income you have to pay 25% VAT on everything you buy, and there are other taxes too (on gas, water, electricity and so on).
Originally posted by BJer
I am saddened by the fact that a fellow Mac-afficienado can be so blind, especially for someone who claims love for the Chinese people and have been to China. You look at China as a fixed photo- this is wrong, that is wrong, this is no good and that is bad. For those of us who participated and watched the transformation of China up close over the last twenty years- I started coming to China twenty years ago on aid projects and moved to BJ fifteen years ago from NY,we look at it as a moving video- it has been a truly miracle that so much has and CONTINUE to change for the better. You would like to see an overnight transformation to "democracy" a la USSR? See where that leads you when you deal with a population of 1.3 billion out of which there are 800 million uneducated peasants! Probably much worse than just having the Mafia taken over and most likely complete anarchy and chaos ten times of the horrors that occured in USSR.How can you say "rid of the government"???? The government that at least has brought the standard of living up by multiples, fed the hungry, clothed the cold, provided housing and most of all, brought China into the international community and the 21st Century. There are problems, of course, but it is clearly and absolutely moving for the better (may not be fast enough for the arrogant and self-righteous ones in America but certainly it is moving).
I look forward to the day when Americans (I am one too) can stop being so self-righteous and self-centered. I look forward to the day when Americans can be more tolerant of others' ways. I look forward to the day when Americans can look things more in the historical prespective and encourage progress as they occur rather than jumping on things which they don't like and push others to adopt their own life and standards.
I must have missed the part of the timeline when China would have more than one political party. Yes, the changes are dramatic, and economically speaking they are for the better.
I notice that you didn't bother to actually address the fact that the government doesn't give a damn about its citizens and that it runs prision labor camps to reeducate them if they don't think the right things. I guess that part of China's Stalinist past will go last? Or maybe one party control will go last?
Stop trying to slander me as some kind of self righteous American. I have plenty of scorn for the US, but at least over here we get to vote for our governors, even if silly actors are running for governor. In contrast, China appoints HK's governor and he has full freedom to ignore the population that he governs. In contrast, here in California, if we don't like our governor, we can recall him. If HKers could recall their governor, they would in a second.
If you want to actually discuss the Chinese government, then lets do so. If you want to just continue to try to label me as some kind of jingoist, then this discussion is at an end because you don't actually want to say anything about the issues. Your labeling me as some kind of self righteous jingoist is not actually forwarding your argument that the Chinese government is a good governmnet or that it should be kept in place, or that life is going well in HK.
Personally, I look forward to the day when the Chinese people have freedom. Freedom to think what they want to think and freedom to worship God as they see fit without fear of government reprisals.
No, I do not want to see USSR style anarchy and chaos. This however does not mean that you need reeducation camps. This does not mean that you beat down people who protested against the government's ignoring AIDS infected farmers.
Originally posted by JLL
Up to 58% (if you earn above a certain level and only on the amount above that).
In general you pay around 40-45% of your gross income in income tax.
Out of that 55-60% of your income you have to pay 25% VAT on everything you buy, and there are other taxes too (on gas, water, electricity and so on).
Wow. That must make it really hard to purchase anything with a substantial Kroner value. I pay bout 30% of my income in tax (I am in one of the higher tax brackets in the US). Sorry about the VAT. VAT really sucks (that is why you should just hop on a plane to new York and buy your powerbook there).
One of my classmates in college was from Denmark. Really smart guy. He really wanted to get a job in the US. Now I can see why.
I really like Europe for alot of the ammeneties it offers society, but the cost is rather prohibitive. I think that given the two, I would actually take fewer ammeneties for a larger disposable income. Of course, I have health insurance through my job, so a good portion of the safety net is provided for me already.
Originally posted by Yevgeny
I must have missed the part of the timeline when China would have more than one political party. Yes, the changes are dramatic, and economically speaking they are for the better.
I notice that you didn't bother to actually address the fact that the government doesn't give a damn about its citizens and that it runs prision labor camps to reeducate them if they don't think the right things. I guess that part of China's Stalinist past will go last? Or maybe one party control will go last?
Stop trying to slander me as some kind of self righteous American. I have plenty of scorn for the US, but at least over here we get to vote for our governors, even if silly actors are running for governor. In contrast, China appoints HK's governor and he has full freedom to ignore the population that he governs. In contrast, here in California, if we don't like our governor, we can recall him. If HKers could recall their governor, they would in a second.
If you want to actually discuss the Chinese government, then lets do so. If you want to just continue to try to label me as some kind of jingoist, then this discussion is at an end because you don't actually want to say anything about the issues. Your labeling me as some kind of self righteous jingoist is not actually forwarding your argument that the Chinese government is a good governmnet or that it should be kept in place, or that life is going well in HK.
Personally, I look forward to the day when the Chinese people have freedom. Freedom to think what they want to think and freedom to worship God as they see fit without fear of government reprisals.
No, I do not want to see USSR style anarchy and chaos. This however does not mean that you need reeducation camps. This does not mean that you beat down people who protested against the government's ignoring AIDS infected farmers.
My my, need not get so defensive. Just go re-read your own original post that aroused my objection and you will see the self-righteousness. Don't sit in your arm chair and say the Chinese government don't give a damn about its people. I am in China and have been for the last fifteen years, thats not what I see.
Don't talk about freedom as a dreamy ideal- taxi drivers in BJ are telling dirty jokes about Jiang Zemin to passengers now (inconceivable 20 years ago)
Don't tell me about your God is getting shabby treatment, I am a member of the Buddist organization in Beijing and we have weekly outing by the thousands to temples without interference.
Get your facts straight! Man
Originally posted by ZO
try 21% or something like that around here...
this sucks so much...
WOW..
I think Massachusetts' tax is 5%, a little more or less. I don't necessarily pay attnetion
I never knew they charged tax on .Mac services. Seems odd. You can actually tax an internet purchase like that? Or do they actually send something by mail to you? I dunno it confuses me.