apple clearly needs to continue riding the momentum that started at MWSF2003.
right now people are clamouring for a powerbook update,it is way past due.
the significance of the ibm 0.06um rumour is that if true could allow apple to catch intel processors by the end of next year!
thats right.
if those rumours are true ibm is more than capable of producing desktop processors that clock at way more than 3 ghz.
but the real excitement could be the mythical "mojave" processor.
this could be a replacement processor for the ibooks.
i believe even with a die shrink to 0.09um the 970 will still run a little too hot for powerbooks and the battery performance of said product will be unacceptable.
remember,apples portable products achieved some of the best battery life times under motorola.
people want MORE battery life,not less.
the industry is trending towards smaller,faster,lighter.
when ibm comes out with a product(shipping) that will continue this trend,then i will be happy.
if ibm is indeed already moving towards 0.06um process.........i believe that wait is over.
This is where you pay the price of having a name like Geekmeat!
I'd dearly love someone to hand over the following info, largely cos I'm too lazy go and look for it myself.
1) What's the power drain and heat output from a 1GHz G4 such as the one in the 17" Albook?
2) Same data for a single 2.0GHz G5 @ 0.13?
3) A vague idea of how slimming to 0.09 alters that data.
4) What happens if you've got 0.09 and you run at 1.6GHz for a new G5 Albook. Is battery life still a problem, or do you have to come down to 1.4 (I once read there was low voltage G5 planned to run at 1.2 or 1.4)? If you come down to 1.4, what performance can you expect?
5) if you've got 0.06, can you make it above 2.0GHz and still have some battery life for a portable?
6) If you've got 0.06, does that make it more likely that you'll be able to wind a 970 way beyond it's initial 2.8GHz ceiling? What does that do to the figures for a 980 which was supposed to start at 3GHz at 0.09.
7) What does all of this mean to a project like 'Dark Star' or a Mac blade-farm or 4-way Mac workstations?
Actually, I don't care who answers this so long as it someone who can vaguely backup what they're saying.
This sounds familiar, wasn't MOT going to skip 130nm and go right for 90nm...
You called it. Except that that came directly from Motorola executives, not the rumor mill.
Fortunately for CYA, they only said they hoped to. After the slow-motion train wreck that 130nm has been for them, I really can't blame them for trying. But they're still unable to get their process working at 130nm, let alone 90nm...
You called it. Except that that came directly from Motorola executives, not the rumor mill.
Fortunately for CYA, they only said they hoped to. After the slow-motion train wreck that 130nm has been for them, I really can't blame them for trying. But they're still unable to get their process working at 130nm, let alone 90nm...
macbidouille is reporting that their "sources" have in indeed verified the rumour from macosxrumours that ibm will indeed skip the 0.09um process and go directly to 0.06um.
if this is indeed true it will be possible for apple to catch intel in the processor speed race.
im sure this will be THE hot rumour in the coming months,at least if its not totally debunked by some factual data.
"G5 with 0,065 Microns - Lionel - 16:24:45 MacosXrumors put on line a rumour which quite surprised us: IBM could manufacture the Power PC 970 in 0,06 Microns as of the end of the year. One of our source just give us information which corroborates this rumour. IBM would has almost finished validating the processes of engraving at 0,065 Microns. The mass production should start in 6 months from now. The 0,09 Micron will not be even used!
Of course, we made sure that our source was not the same one as that of MacosXrumors.
To think that Motorola can't even manage to produce the 7457 engraved into 0,13 in mass quantity (which was supposed to Power the new Powerbooks now lates by many months)!
BTW-Steve Jobs is said to be so impressed with IBM's faster than expected progresses that Apple is seriously considering scrapping the current PowerBook revision and wait for MacWorld San Francisco in January when the PowerBook G5 is planned to be announced (anyways, it is still doubtful as to whether Motorola can release the 7457 in time before!)"
Any... UhmMm... Thoughts... On the... 15" Powerbook 18 months product-cycle?
Steve Jobs is said to be so impressed with IBM's faster than expected progresses that Apple is seriously considering scrapping the current PowerBook revision and wait for MacWorld San Francisco in January when the PowerBook G5 is planned to be announced (anyways, it is still doubtful as to whether Motorola can release the 7457 in time before!)"
Any... UhmMm... Thoughts... On the... 15" Powerbook 18 months product-cycle?
Well I'm getting a kinda perverse pleasure from my 15" 1 GHz TiBook holding its current status for so long. It's like that Seinfeld episode where Kramer and the car salesman see how far they can go with the gas gauge on empty.
Maybe this rumor has some merit afterall. If they announce at MWSF 2004 it would "only" be a 14 month product cycle for the 15" and 12 for the Albooks, not 18. The Power Mac sat at 500 MHz for just as long. Holiday sales are going to be based on G5s and Panther anyway. Releasing a ho-hum PB upgrade now, could actually push a G5 Powerbook announcement back. That could be worse than going the rest of the year with our current models.
Steve would just love to dump Moto in one big .006 G5 upgrade at MWSF 2004. Dreaming...
For what it's worth (not much), MOSR says IBM is on track for .09 with no jump to .065.
"IBM beginning to test PPC 970 chips built on 0.09 micron process: With the 0.13 micron "G5" aka PowerPC 970 processor now shipping in volume at up to 2GHz (up to 2.2GHz is practical with 0.13; 2.4GHz is possible but yields are expected to be very low at that speed - to say nothing of heat and power dissipation issues), IBM's G5 development team has just begun testing the first few wafers of 0.09 micron 970's. This early in the process it is unusual to get very many working chips, but Apple has apparently received a handful (less than 20) of these processors running at between 1.8 and 2.8GHz.
It will be about six months before these processors are available in sufficient volume to base products upon (second-version PowerMac G5s at up to 2.4GHz, and the first PowerBook G5s at 1.6-2.0GHz), but reports from reliable sources in Cupertino suggest that IBM is right on target with its .09m production schedule and that temperature/heat ratings for the new chips are even a little better than expected."
macbidouille is reporting that their "sources" have in indeed verified the rumour from macosxrumours that ibm will indeed skip the 0.09um process and go directly to 0.06um.
MacBidouille has said all kinds of fascinating things this year, and I'm trying to remember if even one of them actually happened.
It'd be a great way to leapfrog Intel, but we'll see if it actually happens...
Any... UhmMm... Thoughts... On the... 15" Powerbook 18 months product-cycle?
Well, if that true, they should at least very quitely and with their tails between their legs release an Alu 15" with the same chips but the rest updated. That would at least signal-to much grumbling among the Macheads-that we have a few more months wait for a bigger revision. Then folks like me can decide to finnaly buy a 15" or wait until MWSF.
MacBidouille has said all kinds of fascinating things this year, and I'm trying to remember if even one of them actually happened.
It'd be a great way to leapfrog Intel, but we'll see if it actually happens...
I could be wrong, but MacBidouille's rumors/speculation has lived off their release of the mirrored doored G4 pictures before its' official introduction. It may be their only one correct prediction. Sadly i don't keep a score card.
Mac Scooby Doo has updated their .065 story with the following:
[Update]
We just received some supplementary info originating from different sources. Even if the 65nm process development is progressing well at IBM, there will be no 65nm G5 before a long time, probably 2005.
IBM has indeed started production of 90nm PPC970. They will use the LoK dielectric technology to solve some electrostatic problems, similar to those that Intel is facing with the Prescott. Mass production should start end of this year with still the same goal : ready in March to deliver the new processor.
The same source confirms that there are indeed some PPC980 prototype since last May, but there are still numerous problems to solve. It should arrive roughly one year after introduction of the PPC970, so around April. What is actually interesting to mention is that, if Intel continuing with the oil immersion technology for 65nm process, IBM is considering that this technique has no future, and is trying different possibilities.
Even if both sources gave somehow conflicting information, it actually might be part of a plan. Indeed IBM can produce other processors than the G5 with the 65nm process. The G5 is a quite complex processor, so it must be produce using a fully validated and controlled process.
I could be wrong, but MacBidouille's rumors/speculation has lived off their release of the mirrored doored G4 pictures before its' official introduction. It may be their only one correct prediction. Sadly i don't keep a score card.
They were right on with the G5's... Thats pretty significant too I think..
Well I'm getting a kinda perverse pleasure from my 15" 1 GHz TiBook holding its current status for so long. It's like that Seinfeld episode where Kramer and the car salesman see how far they can go with the gas gauge on empty.
Hehe...
Quote:
Maybe this rumor has some merit afterall. If they announce at MWSF 2004 it would "only" be a 14 month product cycle for the 15" and 12 for the Albooks, not 18. The Power Mac sat at 500 MHz for just as long. Holiday sales are going to be based on G5s and Panther anyway. Releasing a ho-hum PB upgrade now, could actually push a G5 Powerbook announcement back. That could be worse than going the rest of the year with our current models.
Steve would just love to dump Moto in one big .006 G5 upgrade at MWSF 2004. Dreaming...
Yeah... He would certainly love it.. But I dont think Apple can afford to keep an updated Powerbook of the streets for so long time.. Especially now since you cant find a single Powerbook anywhere! My bet would be an update on tuesday.. (Pure speculation this time)
Remember that the 500 Mhz issue was something we mac-users dont want to think about.. I get goosebumps down my spine each time that story is aired again...
If IBM expected to have a working 65 nm-fab in 2004, or even 2005, they probably won't be silent about it. Companies that manufacture processors brag quite loudly about their current acievements and future accomplishemnts. They are constantly trying to overbid their peers by predicting a brighter future. Just look at Moto's statemnet that they're skipping 130 nm..
In this business, it's only Apple who's silent. Everyyone else is shouting at the top of their lugns what the future might hold. When the buisness of making processors are looking bleek they ones that sound the loudest will get the contracts.
If IBM expected to have a working 65 nm-fab in 2004, or even 2005, they probably won't be silent about it. Companies that manufacture processors brag quite loudly about their current acievements and future accomplishemnts. They are constantly trying to overbid their peers by predicting a brighter future. Just look at Moto's statemnet that they're skipping 130 nm..
In this business, it's only Apple who's silent. Everyyone else is shouting at the top of their lugns what the future might hold. When the buisness of making processors are looking bleek they ones that sound the loudest will get the contracts.
And.. IBM hasn't said a peep officially.
Actually, they have. IBM and some company (Cant remember the name) are teaming up to speed up the .65 development..
Comments
Originally posted by Bigc
This sounds familiar, wasn't MOT going to skip 130nm and go right for 90nm...
I believe Motorola skipped damn near everything and went right to SUCKnm.
I'm not entirely convinced they know what any of the above really means.
Originally posted by pscates
I believe Motorola skipped damn near everything and went right to SUCKnm.
I'm not entirely convinced they know what any of the above really means.
Well Mot proved time and again that it was unable to turn down the suck. Maybe IBM will be able to turn up the good!
Originally posted by geekmeet
apple clearly needs to continue riding the momentum that started at MWSF2003.
right now people are clamouring for a powerbook update,it is way past due.
the significance of the ibm 0.06um rumour is that if true could allow apple to catch intel processors by the end of next year!
thats right.
if those rumours are true ibm is more than capable of producing desktop processors that clock at way more than 3 ghz.
but the real excitement could be the mythical "mojave" processor.
this could be a replacement processor for the ibooks.
i believe even with a die shrink to 0.09um the 970 will still run a little too hot for powerbooks and the battery performance of said product will be unacceptable.
remember,apples portable products achieved some of the best battery life times under motorola.
people want MORE battery life,not less.
the industry is trending towards smaller,faster,lighter.
when ibm comes out with a product(shipping) that will continue this trend,then i will be happy.
if ibm is indeed already moving towards 0.06um process.........i believe that wait is over.
This is where you pay the price of having a name like Geekmeat!
I'd dearly love someone to hand over the following info, largely cos I'm too lazy go and look for it myself.
1) What's the power drain and heat output from a 1GHz G4 such as the one in the 17" Albook?
2) Same data for a single 2.0GHz G5 @ 0.13?
3) A vague idea of how slimming to 0.09 alters that data.
4) What happens if you've got 0.09 and you run at 1.6GHz for a new G5 Albook. Is battery life still a problem, or do you have to come down to 1.4 (I once read there was low voltage G5 planned to run at 1.2 or 1.4)? If you come down to 1.4, what performance can you expect?
5) if you've got 0.06, can you make it above 2.0GHz and still have some battery life for a portable?
6) If you've got 0.06, does that make it more likely that you'll be able to wind a 970 way beyond it's initial 2.8GHz ceiling? What does that do to the figures for a 980 which was supposed to start at 3GHz at 0.09.
7) What does all of this mean to a project like 'Dark Star' or a Mac blade-farm or 4-way Mac workstations?
Actually, I don't care who answers this so long as it someone who can vaguely backup what they're saying.
Originally posted by Bigc
This sounds familiar, wasn't MOT going to skip 130nm and go right for 90nm...
You called it. Except that that came directly from Motorola executives, not the rumor mill.
Fortunately for CYA, they only said they hoped to. After the slow-motion train wreck that 130nm has been for them, I really can't blame them for trying. But they're still unable to get their process working at 130nm, let alone 90nm...
Originally posted by Amorph
You called it. Except that that came directly from Motorola executives, not the rumor mill.
Fortunately for CYA, they only said they hoped to. After the slow-motion train wreck that 130nm has been for them, I really can't blame them for trying. But they're still unable to get their process working at 130nm, let alone 90nm...
There's a difference?...
if this is indeed true it will be possible for apple to catch intel in the processor speed race.
im sure this will be THE hot rumour in the coming months,at least if its not totally debunked by some factual data.
"G5 with 0,065 Microns - Lionel - 16:24:45 MacosXrumors put on line a rumour which quite surprised us: IBM could manufacture the Power PC 970 in 0,06 Microns as of the end of the year. One of our source just give us information which corroborates this rumour. IBM would has almost finished validating the processes of engraving at 0,065 Microns. The mass production should start in 6 months from now. The 0,09 Micron will not be even used!
Of course, we made sure that our source was not the same one as that of MacosXrumors.
To think that Motorola can't even manage to produce the 7457 engraved into 0,13 in mass quantity (which was supposed to Power the new Powerbooks now lates by many months)!
BTW-Steve Jobs is said to be so impressed with IBM's faster than expected progresses that Apple is seriously considering scrapping the current PowerBook revision and wait for MacWorld San Francisco in January when the PowerBook G5 is planned to be announced (anyways, it is still doubtful as to whether Motorola can release the 7457 in time before!)"
Any... UhmMm... Thoughts... On the... 15" Powerbook 18 months product-cycle?
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
Steve Jobs is said to be so impressed with IBM's faster than expected progresses that Apple is seriously considering scrapping the current PowerBook revision and wait for MacWorld San Francisco in January when the PowerBook G5 is planned to be announced (anyways, it is still doubtful as to whether Motorola can release the 7457 in time before!)"
Any... UhmMm... Thoughts... On the... 15" Powerbook 18 months product-cycle?
Well I'm getting a kinda perverse pleasure from my 15" 1 GHz TiBook holding its current status for so long. It's like that Seinfeld episode where Kramer and the car salesman see how far they can go with the gas gauge on empty.
Maybe this rumor has some merit afterall. If they announce at MWSF 2004 it would "only" be a 14 month product cycle for the 15" and 12 for the Albooks, not 18. The Power Mac sat at 500 MHz for just as long. Holiday sales are going to be based on G5s and Panther anyway. Releasing a ho-hum PB upgrade now, could actually push a G5 Powerbook announcement back. That could be worse than going the rest of the year with our current models.
Steve would just love to dump Moto in one big .006 G5 upgrade at MWSF 2004. Dreaming...
"IBM beginning to test PPC 970 chips built on 0.09 micron process: With the 0.13 micron "G5" aka PowerPC 970 processor now shipping in volume at up to 2GHz (up to 2.2GHz is practical with 0.13; 2.4GHz is possible but yields are expected to be very low at that speed - to say nothing of heat and power dissipation issues), IBM's G5 development team has just begun testing the first few wafers of 0.09 micron 970's. This early in the process it is unusual to get very many working chips, but Apple has apparently received a handful (less than 20) of these processors running at between 1.8 and 2.8GHz.
It will be about six months before these processors are available in sufficient volume to base products upon (second-version PowerMac G5s at up to 2.4GHz, and the first PowerBook G5s at 1.6-2.0GHz), but reports from reliable sources in Cupertino suggest that IBM is right on target with its .09m production schedule and that temperature/heat ratings for the new chips are even a little better than expected."
Originally posted by geekmeet
macbidouille is reporting that their "sources" have in indeed verified the rumour from macosxrumours that ibm will indeed skip the 0.09um process and go directly to 0.06um.
MacBidouille has said all kinds of fascinating things this year, and I'm trying to remember if even one of them actually happened.
It'd be a great way to leapfrog Intel, but we'll see if it actually happens...
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
Directly from the Spymac forums:
Any... UhmMm... Thoughts... On the... 15" Powerbook 18 months product-cycle?
Well, if that true, they should at least very quitely and with their tails between their legs release an Alu 15" with the same chips but the rest updated. That would at least signal-to much grumbling among the Macheads-that we have a few more months wait for a bigger revision. Then folks like me can decide to finnaly buy a 15" or wait until MWSF.
Originally posted by Amorph
MacBidouille has said all kinds of fascinating things this year, and I'm trying to remember if even one of them actually happened.
It'd be a great way to leapfrog Intel, but we'll see if it actually happens...
I could be wrong, but MacBidouille's rumors/speculation has lived off their release of the mirrored doored G4 pictures before its' official introduction. It may be their only one correct prediction. Sadly i don't keep a score card.
[Update]
We just received some supplementary info originating from different sources. Even if the 65nm process development is progressing well at IBM, there will be no 65nm G5 before a long time, probably 2005.
IBM has indeed started production of 90nm PPC970. They will use the LoK dielectric technology to solve some electrostatic problems, similar to those that Intel is facing with the Prescott. Mass production should start end of this year with still the same goal : ready in March to deliver the new processor.
The same source confirms that there are indeed some PPC980 prototype since last May, but there are still numerous problems to solve. It should arrive roughly one year after introduction of the PPC970, so around April. What is actually interesting to mention is that, if Intel continuing with the oil immersion technology for 65nm process, IBM is considering that this technique has no future, and is trying different possibilities.
Even if both sources gave somehow conflicting information, it actually might be part of a plan. Indeed IBM can produce other processors than the G5 with the 65nm process. The G5 is a quite complex processor, so it must be produce using a fully validated and controlled process.
Originally posted by rickag
I could be wrong, but MacBidouille's rumors/speculation has lived off their release of the mirrored doored G4 pictures before its' official introduction. It may be their only one correct prediction. Sadly i don't keep a score card.
They were right on with the G5's... Thats pretty significant too I think..
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
Well I'm getting a kinda perverse pleasure from my 15" 1 GHz TiBook holding its current status for so long. It's like that Seinfeld episode where Kramer and the car salesman see how far they can go with the gas gauge on empty.
Hehe...
Quote:
Maybe this rumor has some merit afterall. If they announce at MWSF 2004 it would "only" be a 14 month product cycle for the 15" and 12 for the Albooks, not 18. The Power Mac sat at 500 MHz for just as long. Holiday sales are going to be based on G5s and Panther anyway. Releasing a ho-hum PB upgrade now, could actually push a G5 Powerbook announcement back. That could be worse than going the rest of the year with our current models.
Steve would just love to dump Moto in one big .006 G5 upgrade at MWSF 2004. Dreaming...
Yeah... He would certainly love it.. But I dont think Apple can afford to keep an updated Powerbook of the streets for so long time.. Especially now since you cant find a single Powerbook anywhere! My bet would be an update on tuesday..
Remember that the 500 Mhz issue was something we mac-users dont want to think about.. I get goosebumps down my spine each time that story is aired again...
In this business, it's only Apple who's silent. Everyyone else is shouting at the top of their lugns what the future might hold. When the buisness of making processors are looking bleek they ones that sound the loudest will get the contracts.
And.. IBM hasn't said a peep officially.
Originally posted by Henriok
If IBM expected to have a working 65 nm-fab in 2004, or even 2005, they probably won't be silent about it. Companies that manufacture processors brag quite loudly about their current acievements and future accomplishemnts. They are constantly trying to overbid their peers by predicting a brighter future. Just look at Moto's statemnet that they're skipping 130 nm..
In this business, it's only Apple who's silent. Everyyone else is shouting at the top of their lugns what the future might hold. When the buisness of making processors are looking bleek they ones that sound the loudest will get the contracts.
And.. IBM hasn't said a peep officially.
Actually, they have. IBM and some company (Cant remember the name) are teaming up to speed up the .65 development..