Well I for one do want Apple to become competitive with intels chips, but it isn't going to happen in terms of clock speed.
Apple should aim for high memory bandwidth and high GigaFlops, enough so that these figures are higher than Apple's x86 counterparts....
However I doubt this will happen until Apple moves to a different power chip supplier (ie IBM) and brings out a new chip, even if it is costly. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
i would be a bit pissed, if this is all apple can offer. I was planning on getting a new powermac this summer, but now I think it would be a mistake.
it's mostly a price issue, i can't seem to justify paying 2500 to run OS X.
realistically, the only difference these days between Wintel and Apple machines are aesthetic, and they are marginal at that.
stability, ease of use, and compatability gaps between the two are hard to find. i honestly can't find any other reason i would want os x, other than the awesome interface. so, unless apple can bring more competition performance-wise, i'd save 1000 dollars and use a slightly less neat GUI and gain hardware that is a bit more appealing and will scale a bit longer.
<strong>Ok, dipsh!t, if I only care about specs and speed ratings, then explain why I'm content with my Powermac G4 400, w/ Radeon?
Explain why I intend to keep this computer another 2-3 years, and to never spend over $400 on a CPU upgrade?
I think it's YOU who's got some weird psych disorder. What's more pathological...being concerned about a lack of competitive hardware from Apple, or lashing out with personal attacks whenever someone expresses such concern?
You tell me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nah im gonna have to go with the other guy on this. I've seen posts of yours in the past speaking of Apple going down the tubes because they cant get current fast hardware out the door. And yet apple still exists after years of meaningless babbling from people like you.
I'm content having the best OS hands down. The best design of computers period...from top to bottom (emac,imac,ibook,pwerbook,powermac desktop). The best free apps of any OS..Itunes, iphoto, imovie, idvd.
Do you want chip speed or user speed. I think on a mac people can just get more done regardless, and be happier about it too.
<strong>So you guys don't think that Apple needs to compete with the 2.5 GHZ Pentium 4 systems out there?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't care what Intel does. I don't buy cheap tools, cheap chain saws, cheap vacuum cleaners, Honda murdercycles, etc and I don't buy cheap computers that last 6-months (assuming you can even get your stuff to work). I got a wintel box and windog XP and I don't care how fast it is, it's still ugly and horrible to work with.
<strong>So you guys don't think that Apple needs to compete with the 2.5 GHZ Pentium 4 systems out there?</strong><hr></blockquote>
OK I'm so tired of this.
For all those falling for JYD's babbling about P4 performance, based (most likely) on nothing, and if anything, benchmarks (which are useless as we know), check out these links:
What you'll notice is that while the Dual 1 Ghz Powermac has a CTP of 27,000 MTOPs, the 2.53 Ghz P4 has only a 6746 rating.
Yes these numbers are theoretical performance, but the only thing holding back the G4 is the FSB and the Memory bus. Apple doesn't NEED a Dual 1.8 Ghz tower to best Intel's P4. All they NEED is to improve bandwidth on the mobo and then Apple will ROLL OVER Intel--even its highest offering.
These are just the facts. No benchmarks. But the only thing that can prevent MTOPs ratings from proving themselves are FSB and Mem, so there's no deny it.
The previous three posts are great. My thinking exactly. I'm not as hung up on sheer speed, specs, numbers, bragging rights, etc. as I am simply into the "don't think about it...it just works" elegance of my Mac and OS X.
The free iApps are the best, and I'd hate to imagine my life without iTunes or iPhoto at this point.
The integration (there IS a lot to be said for having one company that makes the OS AND the actual box it runs on) is really nice and I wouldn't want to use anything else.
I don't give five damns what Intel is up to. They can be pumping out 6GHz Pentium VI chips for all I care. I'll stick with what works for me, what I'm productive in and what I know.
Half you people who are always frantic and ranting about Apple's shortcomings and "dismal performance" probably aren't even tapping into or using 1/3 of your Mac's power and abilities anyway.
If its true that 1.2 Ghz is the fastest they can do, then why not make the low end a single 1.2 Ghz, and the other 2 models dual 1.2 ghz? The biggest problem with the G4 towers is the price. If the low end tower stays at the same price point it will be a disaster. If they lower the price to a more reasonable $1299 they will sell very well. Its time for Apple to bring their prices down to earth. ..................................................
My vote is for DDR in the whole line up, both consumer and pro, laptop and desktop. Just the desktops in N.Y. for now though.
The DDR should be downplayed in the RDF. Just a matter of fact improvement.
Duals on all the pro line desktops. Ti cards or equal on the fastest. $100, $200 & $300 price drop on fast, faster, fastest.
If the new mobo is significant with the bells and whistles talked about on the board, 1.2 GHz is all right by me. Definatly not the end of the world at all and would be actually pretty ( :eek: way :eek: ) slick.
If it's not the beefy mobo I'm hopping for, then there is just that much more to catch up and some people will be buying AMD this time around.
Ok, ok, ok, you guys are right. It doesn't matter how fast Pentiums are. It doesn't matter if Powermacs get their asses handed to them on a platter by x86 boxes on benchmarks ranging from photoshop to aftereffects. None of this matters, because OS X and Apple rock.
I suppose next you're going to tell me that marketshare is meaningless too, and that Apple could sell to a nich market 1/8 the size of their current market and it would be no problem?
I don't give five damns what Intel is up to. They can be pumping out 6GHz Pentium VI chips for all I care. I'll stick with what works for me, what I'm productive in and what I know.
if the dual thing is true...if...what if its because the new iron was delayed by 3 months (i think moki said he heard a rumor that the ddr mobo had slipped a date)
if this is true then we might be talking stopgap in july fulll speed ahead in oct.
Ooops :eek: I did it again! I desperately want to add something new, but it keeps coming out the same old drivel? Maybe if I had some information to work with.... <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
Well, I did not write this myself, but I found it some time ago over at MacNN and it describes nicely my point of view about the theme
As somebody who switched from the PC to the Mac I will never understand those Mac users who are concerned about MHZ. For me AppleScript is such a timesaver, I just cannot automate my PC even having 2 GHZ. What as shame, 2 GHZ and no simple system-& app-wide automation of tasks...
Excuse my English, I am not a native speaker.
Greetings,
Martin
[quote]
...And thats why I use a Mac.
See, McDonalds has over x Billion served. Which means over x billion people ate sh*t for breakfast, lunch or dinner.
And that's fine. Midiocre food for mediocre people. But it's just not for me.
There are a variety of reasons not to eat McDonalds. Bob in Wisconsin doesn't eat it because of moral reasons: he is against the spread of 'global' (American) culture throughout the world, of quality, local establishments being passed over in favor of some corporate franchise. Sue in Zimbabwe doesn't eat McDonalds for ethical reasons: she is a rabbit-food eating vegan who is against the Amazon rainforest being burned down to make the land to raise the 'cattle' that go into McDonalds 'hamburgers.' Judith in the Czech republic doesn't eat McDonalds because of health reasons-- she doesn't feel the need to shorten her lifespan, and she hears bizarre rumours about what goes into McFood.
And those are all valid reasons...
...but they are not mine.
At the end of the day, i do not eat McDonalds because I am above eating McDonalds. It is sh*t.
I prefer prime rib. And if I have to explain why I prefer prime rib over ****, well then, we have a long day ahead of us, don't we! If it needs explanation, then it is most likely you will never understand.
Windows has x billion served. And there are a plethora of reasons not to use Windows XX. Phil in Nebraska might not use it because of moral reasons: he is not 'down' with Microsoft's business practices, bullying other companies and leveraging themselves into a Monopoly. He doesn't want to give his money to 'the man.'
Laura in Holland doesn't use WinXX for political and cultural reasons: she buys/uses the competition to ensure that there will remain a 'competition' and to see what this hippy-dippy techno-utopian cultural phenomena called 'open source' is all about.
And perhaps Vlad in Yugoslavia has been burned by WinXX before, and refuses to shell out hundreds for such a product again, instead turning to something either technologically superior (IE every other OS out there for PC hardware) or something easier to use/navigate.
And those are great reasons.
But they are not my reasons. My reason is that WinXX is sh*t. It is beneath me to use it.
A mediocre OS for mediocre people.
The best-selling OS product for the masses.. kind of the NSYNC or Spice Girls of OSes. Or, a better analogy, the McDonalds of Oses. Tripe for the masses who do not know better, who are so easily swayed by marketing that they drink Pepsi after a nice jog in the nike shoes and hilfiger tracksuit, who think that budweiser is beer, Kraft single slices are cheese, Wonderbread is in fact 'bread,' and Survivor/Jerry Springer are quality television. You know: idiots. The unwashed masses. The ones who keep the McDonalds and Microsofts of the world going.
And that's cool. To each their own. And most of them will never eat 'real' cheese or experience the flavours and variety of 'real beer.'
And they will never know what they are missing.
But it is not like I am some sort of peasant who doesn't have a choice. I do not live in the ghettos, I do not subsist off of handouts. I am not a beggar, and thus can afford to be a chooser. I choose prime rib. I choose to use a Powerbook. I choose to run Linux (technologically superior) and the Mac OS (ease of use) on it.
Because I am worth it. I am worth the few extra dollars for Shaftbury Paul and Tim's. I am worth the few extra cents for a small wheel of brie, or some feta for my salads and pasta, or a fresh loaf of sourdough.
I listen to real music made by bands/groups the gained reputation through talent, not sheer marketing force.
And if I have to explain my preference, if you just don't 'get it,' then chances are you never will. If I have to explain why Windows is beneath me, why McCrap is beneath me, why I don't wear Hilfiger jeans or drink Molson Canadian (the Canuck equivalent to a 5% alchohol Budweiser) or Mike's hard Lemonade or Rotting Grape wine....
Well, never mind. It shouldn't need explaining. If it does, you should be embarrased, because the Clue Train left town, and you missed it.
<strong>Ok, ok, ok, you guys are right. It doesn't matter how fast Pentiums are. It doesn't matter if Powermacs get their asses handed to them on a platter by x86 boxes on benchmarks ranging from photoshop to aftereffects. None of this matters, because OS X and Apple rock.
I suppose next you're going to tell me that marketshare is meaningless too, and that Apple could sell to a nich market 1/8 the size of their current market and it would be no problem?</strong><hr></blockquote>
What does matter is how good the Macs' performance is. If we get PMs runnning at 1 gig, but blazingly fast because of MB, bus and memory tweaks, then they will sell, and sell well (assuming prices are reasonable). Yeah, the numbers do influence some consumers. But word of mouth is often a greater influence, as well as sale piches you get in the stores.
<strong>Ok, dipsh!t, if I only care about specs and speed ratings, then explain why I'm content with my Powermac G4 400, w/ Radeon?
Explain why I intend to keep this computer another 2-3 years, and to never spend over $400 on a CPU upgrade?
I think it's YOU who's got some weird psych disorder. What's more pathological...being concerned about a lack of competitive hardware from Apple, or lashing out with personal attacks whenever someone expresses such concern?
You tell me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well.....you've proved my point. I couldn't have illustrated my point better. Thanks for saving me the trouble of having to come up with a reply, when you've so able demonstrated my case for me.
Now go buy an Athlon and quit whinging about all of this.
I've been planning on buying a Mac after MWNY and this is good news to me. I've been planning on getting the "middle" model and I would be SO FREAKING happy if they offered it as a dual. Shoot... even if they kept it at 933 it would still be a HUGE performance gain (especially if there are motherboard improvements).
My only concern is that SpyMac released the rumor. This means it's probably a load of crap
Comments
Apple should aim for high memory bandwidth and high GigaFlops, enough so that these figures are higher than Apple's x86 counterparts....
However I doubt this will happen until Apple moves to a different power chip supplier (ie IBM) and brings out a new chip, even if it is costly. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
it's mostly a price issue, i can't seem to justify paying 2500 to run OS X.
realistically, the only difference these days between Wintel and Apple machines are aesthetic, and they are marginal at that.
stability, ease of use, and compatability gaps between the two are hard to find. i honestly can't find any other reason i would want os x, other than the awesome interface. so, unless apple can bring more competition performance-wise, i'd save 1000 dollars and use a slightly less neat GUI and gain hardware that is a bit more appealing and will scale a bit longer.
<strong>Ok, dipsh!t, if I only care about specs and speed ratings, then explain why I'm content with my Powermac G4 400, w/ Radeon?
Explain why I intend to keep this computer another 2-3 years, and to never spend over $400 on a CPU upgrade?
I think it's YOU who's got some weird psych disorder. What's more pathological...being concerned about a lack of competitive hardware from Apple, or lashing out with personal attacks whenever someone expresses such concern?
You tell me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nah im gonna have to go with the other guy on this. I've seen posts of yours in the past speaking of Apple going down the tubes because they cant get current fast hardware out the door. And yet apple still exists after years of meaningless babbling from people like you.
Do you want chip speed or user speed. I think on a mac people can just get more done regardless, and be happier about it too.
Simply the best(MAC) or simply fast chip(PC)
I'll take the Mac thanks!!!!!
<strong>So you guys don't think that Apple needs to compete with the 2.5 GHZ Pentium 4 systems out there?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't care what Intel does. I don't buy cheap tools, cheap chain saws, cheap vacuum cleaners, Honda murdercycles, etc and I don't buy cheap computers that last 6-months (assuming you can even get your stuff to work). I got a wintel box and windog XP and I don't care how fast it is, it's still ugly and horrible to work with.
<strong>So you guys don't think that Apple needs to compete with the 2.5 GHZ Pentium 4 systems out there?</strong><hr></blockquote>
OK I'm so tired of this.
For all those falling for JYD's babbling about P4 performance, based (most likely) on nothing, and if anything, benchmarks (which are useless as we know), check out these links:
Apple's Official Export Compliance info:
<a href="http://www.info.apple.com/support/export.html"; target="_blank">http://www.info.apple.com/support/export.html</a>;
Look at the first column, CTP, measured in MTOPs (Millions of Theoretical Operations Per Second)
Then look at Intel's own Official CTP info page:
<a href="http://support.intel.com/support/processors/CTP.HTM#15"; target="_blank">http://support.intel.com/support/processors/CTP.HTM#15</a>;
What you'll notice is that while the Dual 1 Ghz Powermac has a CTP of 27,000 MTOPs, the 2.53 Ghz P4 has only a 6746 rating.
Yes these numbers are theoretical performance, but the only thing holding back the G4 is the FSB and the Memory bus. Apple doesn't NEED a Dual 1.8 Ghz tower to best Intel's P4. All they NEED is to improve bandwidth on the mobo and then Apple will ROLL OVER Intel--even its highest offering.
These are just the facts. No benchmarks. But the only thing that can prevent MTOPs ratings from proving themselves are FSB and Mem, so there's no deny it.
The free iApps are the best, and I'd hate to imagine my life without iTunes or iPhoto at this point.
The integration (there IS a lot to be said for having one company that makes the OS AND the actual box it runs on) is really nice and I wouldn't want to use anything else.
I don't give five damns what Intel is up to. They can be pumping out 6GHz Pentium VI chips for all I care. I'll stick with what works for me, what I'm productive in and what I know.
Half you people who are always frantic and ranting about Apple's shortcomings and "dismal performance" probably aren't even tapping into or using 1/3 of your Mac's power and abilities anyway.
[ 06-26-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
The DDR should be downplayed in the RDF. Just a matter of fact improvement.
Duals on all the pro line desktops. Ti cards or equal on the fastest. $100, $200 & $300 price drop on fast, faster, fastest.
If the new mobo is significant with the bells and whistles talked about on the board, 1.2 GHz is all right by me. Definatly not the end of the world at all and would be actually pretty ( :eek: way :eek: ) slick.
If it's not the beefy mobo I'm hopping for, then there is just that much more to catch up and some people will be buying AMD this time around.
<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
But you know what? That's not the end of the world and this boat(Apple that is), is solid. :cool: :cool:
[ 06-26-2002: Message edited by: tink ]</p>
I suppose next you're going to tell me that marketshare is meaningless too, and that Apple could sell to a nich market 1/8 the size of their current market and it would be no problem?
<strong>
I don't give five damns what Intel is up to. They can be pumping out 6GHz Pentium VI chips for all I care. I'll stick with what works for me, what I'm productive in and what I know.
[ 06-26-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly.
My PC type friends just don't get it when they go on the MZH babble. I just shrug..and it just infuriates them.
I don't care what the number on it is... if it is fast enough to do the work I want and reliable, well... that is all I need.
I don't care how far your benchmarks can piss.
<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
if this is true then we might be talking stopgap in july fulll speed ahead in oct.
thoughts?
Oh yeah...
<strong>sorry -redundant post
[ 06-26-2002: Message edited by: pey/coy-ote ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ooops :eek: I did it again! I desperately want to add something new, but it keeps coming out the same old drivel? Maybe if I had some information to work with.... <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
its getting closer to NY so lots of lips might be getting looser.
As somebody who switched from the PC to the Mac I will never understand those Mac users who are concerned about MHZ. For me AppleScript is such a timesaver, I just cannot automate my PC even having 2 GHZ. What as shame, 2 GHZ and no simple system-& app-wide automation of tasks...
Excuse my English, I am not a native speaker.
Greetings,
Martin
[quote]
...And thats why I use a Mac.
See, McDonalds has over x Billion served. Which means over x billion people ate sh*t for breakfast, lunch or dinner.
And that's fine. Midiocre food for mediocre people. But it's just not for me.
There are a variety of reasons not to eat McDonalds. Bob in Wisconsin doesn't eat it because of moral reasons: he is against the spread of 'global' (American) culture throughout the world, of quality, local establishments being passed over in favor of some corporate franchise. Sue in Zimbabwe doesn't eat McDonalds for ethical reasons: she is a rabbit-food eating vegan who is against the Amazon rainforest being burned down to make the land to raise the 'cattle' that go into McDonalds 'hamburgers.' Judith in the Czech republic doesn't eat McDonalds because of health reasons-- she doesn't feel the need to shorten her lifespan, and she hears bizarre rumours about what goes into McFood.
And those are all valid reasons...
...but they are not mine.
At the end of the day, i do not eat McDonalds because I am above eating McDonalds. It is sh*t.
I prefer prime rib. And if I have to explain why I prefer prime rib over ****, well then, we have a long day ahead of us, don't we! If it needs explanation, then it is most likely you will never understand.
Windows has x billion served. And there are a plethora of reasons not to use Windows XX. Phil in Nebraska might not use it because of moral reasons: he is not 'down' with Microsoft's business practices, bullying other companies and leveraging themselves into a Monopoly. He doesn't want to give his money to 'the man.'
Laura in Holland doesn't use WinXX for political and cultural reasons: she buys/uses the competition to ensure that there will remain a 'competition' and to see what this hippy-dippy techno-utopian cultural phenomena called 'open source' is all about.
And perhaps Vlad in Yugoslavia has been burned by WinXX before, and refuses to shell out hundreds for such a product again, instead turning to something either technologically superior (IE every other OS out there for PC hardware) or something easier to use/navigate.
And those are great reasons.
But they are not my reasons. My reason is that WinXX is sh*t. It is beneath me to use it.
A mediocre OS for mediocre people.
The best-selling OS product for the masses.. kind of the NSYNC or Spice Girls of OSes. Or, a better analogy, the McDonalds of Oses. Tripe for the masses who do not know better, who are so easily swayed by marketing that they drink Pepsi after a nice jog in the nike shoes and hilfiger tracksuit, who think that budweiser is beer, Kraft single slices are cheese, Wonderbread is in fact 'bread,' and Survivor/Jerry Springer are quality television. You know: idiots. The unwashed masses. The ones who keep the McDonalds and Microsofts of the world going.
And that's cool. To each their own. And most of them will never eat 'real' cheese or experience the flavours and variety of 'real beer.'
And they will never know what they are missing.
But it is not like I am some sort of peasant who doesn't have a choice. I do not live in the ghettos, I do not subsist off of handouts. I am not a beggar, and thus can afford to be a chooser. I choose prime rib. I choose to use a Powerbook. I choose to run Linux (technologically superior) and the Mac OS (ease of use) on it.
Because I am worth it. I am worth the few extra dollars for Shaftbury Paul and Tim's. I am worth the few extra cents for a small wheel of brie, or some feta for my salads and pasta, or a fresh loaf of sourdough.
I listen to real music made by bands/groups the gained reputation through talent, not sheer marketing force.
And if I have to explain my preference, if you just don't 'get it,' then chances are you never will. If I have to explain why Windows is beneath me, why McCrap is beneath me, why I don't wear Hilfiger jeans or drink Molson Canadian (the Canuck equivalent to a 5% alchohol Budweiser) or Mike's hard Lemonade or Rotting Grape wine....
Well, never mind. It shouldn't need explaining. If it does, you should be embarrased, because the Clue Train left town, and you missed it.
<hr></blockquote>
<strong>Ok, ok, ok, you guys are right. It doesn't matter how fast Pentiums are. It doesn't matter if Powermacs get their asses handed to them on a platter by x86 boxes on benchmarks ranging from photoshop to aftereffects. None of this matters, because OS X and Apple rock.
I suppose next you're going to tell me that marketshare is meaningless too, and that Apple could sell to a nich market 1/8 the size of their current market and it would be no problem?</strong><hr></blockquote>
What does matter is how good the Macs' performance is. If we get PMs runnning at 1 gig, but blazingly fast because of MB, bus and memory tweaks, then they will sell, and sell well (assuming prices are reasonable). Yeah, the numbers do influence some consumers. But word of mouth is often a greater influence, as well as sale piches you get in the stores.
<strong>Ok, dipsh!t, if I only care about specs and speed ratings, then explain why I'm content with my Powermac G4 400, w/ Radeon?
Explain why I intend to keep this computer another 2-3 years, and to never spend over $400 on a CPU upgrade?
I think it's YOU who's got some weird psych disorder. What's more pathological...being concerned about a lack of competitive hardware from Apple, or lashing out with personal attacks whenever someone expresses such concern?
You tell me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well.....you've proved my point. I couldn't have illustrated my point better. Thanks for saving me the trouble of having to come up with a reply, when you've so able demonstrated my case for me.
Now go buy an Athlon and quit whinging about all of this.
ting5
My only concern is that SpyMac released the rumor. This means it's probably a load of crap
We?ll see.