<strong>As a little bird whispered to me today, MWNY is by no means a sure thing for Apple introductions.</strong><hr></blockquote>
True. In fact, given the number of auxiliary goodies that are coming due in late summer, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple issues a press release upgrade to the PowerMacs just to keep them ahead of any iMac updates, followed by a big new model at or after Seybold, perhaps to coincide with Jaguar (which might or might not make MWNY).
Apple released everything at shows when they needed to get people's attention. Now, they have everyone's attention, so they can release things whenever they want, invite whomever they want, and expect a packed house. They can even stir the pot with a mere press release now, as the dual-GHz PowerMac and the latest PowerBook updates proved.
I think that a speed bump would be nice, but honestly, if we dont see an over all improvement I will be severly dissappointed.
If you think about it, the Powermac G4 has been basically the same machine since Sawtooth (with some changes (ie newer G4s and new I/O controllers).
What we need is a New power mac, with DDR ram and a faster FSB. considering the 800 iMac, a SuperDrive on every PowerMac would be nice too.
I'd like to see Apple push new tech as well, because that is what they are good at, so maybe Son of FireWire ports, USB2 (hey, it couldn't hurt), AGP8x, ATA 133 on board, and last but not least, PCI Slots that are faster than 33MHz.
Now, they don;t have to use all of these, but at least some of them would be nice, and no matter what, they can;t hike the price. I realise that not increasing the price would limit them somewhat if they want to maintain their margins, but the PowerMacs are expensive enough as it is and PCs do have a lot of these features (PCI slots at 66MHz, DDR RAM, USB2) without being overly pricy, so it is not out of the realm of possibility.
<strong>This thread has turned into a big, giant pile of doo.
My intent was originally to draw out those posters who knew of something better coming along at MWNY. But Moki is staying silent, and ths "All Knowing" dude keeps talking out of his ass about dual 1.5 GHz G4s. LOL, MAYBE on a 100 nm process, but I doubt it.
Please, how about some REAL info?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Outta my ass huh JYD?
At least I'm not just one steaming pile of human excrement. I swear to God you change your mind so much (Apple good, bad, good, etc) that I think you suffer from schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder or something.....maybe you're bipolar?!
Problem is, you wouldn't know "REAL" or even "GOOD" information if it sat on your face. True I'm not a veteran like some others. But that doesn't mean I'm just any random 12 year old Mac-addict just discovering the effects a few BS posts can have. Far from it.
True I speculate as the rest of us do. I don't "know" what Apple is going to release at MWNY, and neither does anyone else here, not even your idolized go-to guy Moki. He has a good idea yes, based on his information.
I too make my guesses based on my information. No I'm not under any NDA about this, so I can run my mouth. As I've said many times before, I have good reason to say that Dual 1.5 Ghz G4s are on the slate. I know such prototypes exist, and have existed for *quite* some time now. I know this through a source, who has been using it in his research. Since he always has some cool Apple stuff, I trust him. Based on this, I'm predicting the timetable for their release is this summer, due to the fact that the last time he had a prototype machine it was released about the same time later (I don't want to give time periods out).
So maybe I'll talk outta my ass some more JYD. I probly have a $hitload more sources than you do, so don't make assumptions when you're so bass ackwards you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.
Sorry I'm being a dick again, I had a rough night and I don't like being insulted.
[ 06-28-2002: Message edited by: The All Knowing 1 ]</p>
<strong>Why doesn't it mean anything? And who does it mean nothing to?
Dude i bought some DDR 400 1 week ago, Corsair XMS3200. MSI, Abit and Gigabyte will have boards based on the new Via KT400 chipset very soon. The Hammer chipsets will likely have DDR400 support now, this is getting revised as we speek. As for DDR II, mid next year for the ram companies the word is as for Apple's adoption? god knows. We know that in classical Apple form they adopt these standards 1-2 years after the rest of the industry..USB 1 being the exception.
I agree however, that Apple will likely do the DDR move this July, DDR266 i would imagine-(6 months after the rest of the industry has moved on the the next best thing).
As i mentioned tho, it would probably be wiser if Apple just pulled a CPU bump at july an a full board job at SF using the very latest tech avialable at the time. That way they can ride the current hardware for a while longer instead of adopting stuff 2-3 generations behind. and milking it for 5 times longer. We all know everyone will complain like mad and i dont think Apple can afford to continually offer dated machines.
Lets just wait an see what happens. Apple needs us to spend our money but we need the fastest best value products for that money.....we havent been getting that over the past few years.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The current use of DDR 333 boards is low and any real widespread adoption isn't going to be ushered in until late in the year with DDR 400 boards not really becoming well adopted until next year. Hence why you won't see AMD bother with moving up their schedule for DDR 400.
The PC world has a need to show off their future developments and release them long before they are actually needed on the market.
The simple reason those boards don't matter though is because adoption by the top level OEMs, who are really the ones that control most of the market, aren't even switching to DDR 333 yet. The 3 largest PC manufacturers are all still selling DDR 266. They will likely change to 333 by the end of the year but nothing truly amazing there.
People need to stop looking at Apple as if they are a small shop where you can custom build things using your choice of the latest hardware. They are far more similar to the top teir OEMs, who are slow to adopt changes (mind you Apple is even slower which is sad).
DDR II won't be hitting production until Q3 so although you might be able to get a hold of it it won't seriously be looking at hitting the mainstream until 1H 2004. It would be nice to see Apple pick it up then mid-2004 although there are a number of issues that may prevent that. Somehow I see it being more likely 2005.
Sorry I'm being a dick again, I had a rough night and I don't like being insulted.
[ 06-28-2002: Message edited by: The All Knowing 1 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I am a newby here, so sorry if I am talking out of turn, but no need to get your panties bunched up TAK1. You need to build up your rep - and that happens by making accurate predictions. You probably do have good info, but until your predictions start coming through, you will be flamed.
8437 Power PC 7450/7455 G4 1600 MacOS X 10.1 2.8016 RC5 16,991,648</strong><hr></blockquote>
well, that's interesting, but i'm more curious about the record right below it... a PPC G3 clocked at 40 MHz?! I've never heard of such a thing (or 48MHz).
I forgot all about Moto's fab's, Programmer. When their financial problems really hit the fan 2-3 yrs ago they started shutting down fabs, then started laying off people, then sarted centralizing the org - all in reverse order to what normal companies do. At some point, they realized that putting all the working, reliable equipment in the same fab increased their yields. Now they were generating products at closer to the theoretical numbers they used to quote to their customers.
After making an actual profit based on this exerience, they figured they could try keeping a few fabs instead of selling them off (which they considered). I actually think that we will get better than 1.2 Ghz chips next month, now that I think about it.
[quote]well, that's interesting, but i'm more curious about the record right below it... a PPC G3 clocked at 40 MHz?!
I've never heard of such a thing (or 48MHz).<hr></blockquote>
I think the 1000MHz machine they list is a DP 500 and the 1600 a DP 800...Everything seems out of place, as there is neither a single CPU 1GHz machine, nor a 1.6GHz machine that anyone has ever heard of.
<strong>In fact, given the number of auxiliary goodies that are coming due in late summer, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple issues a press release upgrade to the PowerMacs just to keep them ahead of any iMac updates, followed by a big new model at or after Seybold, perhaps to coincide with Jaguar (which might or might not make MWNY).</strong><hr></blockquote>
James, I would be surprised by such a move, for the reasons that so much IS slated for September (late summer, ok? ), and so much attention is being focussed on NewYork already. There's great pressure on Apple to show their hand soon regarding the PMs, and I think a 200mHz bump via press-release would "send the wrong message".
Whatever Apple has in store for the PowerMac, IMO it would be a mistake for them to hold back any longer (no, I'm not saying they've been sitting on the good stuff!): what they've got will be fully displayed @ MWNY, and the better it is, the more likely it will ship w/ Jaguar in September.
At least I'm not just one steaming pile of human excrement. I swear to God you change your mind so much (Apple good, bad, good, etc) that I think you suffer from schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder or something.....maybe you're bipolar?!
Problem is, you wouldn't know "REAL" or even "GOOD" information if it sat on your face. True I'm not a veteran like some others. But that doesn't mean I'm just any random 12 year old Mac-addict just discovering the effects a few BS posts can have. Far from it.
True I speculate as the rest of us do. I don't "know" what Apple is going to release at MWNY, and neither does anyone else here, not even your idolized go-to guy Moki. He has a good idea yes, based on his information.
I too make my guesses based on my information. No I'm not under any NDA about this, so I can run my mouth. As I've said many times before, I have good reason to say that Dual 1.5 Ghz G4s are on the slate. I know such prototypes exist, and have existed for *quite* some time now. I know this through a source, who has been using it in his research. Since he always has some cool Apple stuff, I trust him. Based on this, I'm predicting the timetable for their release is this summer, due to the fact that the last time he had a prototype machine it was released about the same time later (I don't want to give time periods out).
So maybe I'll talk outta my ass some more JYD. I probly have a $hitload more sources than you do, so don't make assumptions when you're so bass ackwards you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.
Sorry I'm being a dick again, I had a rough night and I don't like being insulted.
[ 06-28-2002: Message edited by: The All Knowing 1 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Feels good to be mad, doesn't it! Like being alive!
I believe you a bit more now, particularly combined with the other reports of g4s in the speed range you describe.
Comments
<strong>As a little bird whispered to me today, MWNY is by no means a sure thing for Apple introductions.</strong><hr></blockquote>
True. In fact, given the number of auxiliary goodies that are coming due in late summer, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple issues a press release upgrade to the PowerMacs just to keep them ahead of any iMac updates, followed by a big new model at or after Seybold, perhaps to coincide with Jaguar (which might or might not make MWNY).
Apple released everything at shows when they needed to get people's attention. Now, they have everyone's attention, so they can release things whenever they want, invite whomever they want, and expect a packed house. They can even stir the pot with a mere press release now, as the dual-GHz PowerMac and the latest PowerBook updates proved.
If you think about it, the Powermac G4 has been basically the same machine since Sawtooth (with some changes (ie newer G4s and new I/O controllers).
What we need is a New power mac, with DDR ram and a faster FSB. considering the 800 iMac, a SuperDrive on every PowerMac would be nice too.
I'd like to see Apple push new tech as well, because that is what they are good at, so maybe Son of FireWire ports, USB2 (hey, it couldn't hurt), AGP8x, ATA 133 on board, and last but not least, PCI Slots that are faster than 33MHz.
Now, they don;t have to use all of these, but at least some of them would be nice, and no matter what, they can;t hike the price. I realise that not increasing the price would limit them somewhat if they want to maintain their margins, but the PowerMacs are expensive enough as it is and PCs do have a lot of these features (PCI slots at 66MHz, DDR RAM, USB2) without being overly pricy, so it is not out of the realm of possibility.
Anyway, that is just my 1.50$,
--PB
<strong>
We could always spend our time feeding the trolls.
If you don't like Mac rumors & gossip, why are you spending time on a board devoted to them?
[ 06-27-2002: Message edited by: glurx ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
never feed forum trolls, they are a waste of time.
i do like mac rumors but i hate gossip. what i am seeing here is gossip. gossip is a waste of time.
Dual 800/867 Mhz
Dual 1 Ghz
Dual 1. Ghz
These would be fine speeds. I don't foolishly expect quad 6 GHZ G5 systems for under $300.
What I want is faster FSB, DDR ram, Firewire 2, and USB 2.0
The Xserve DDR hack would be better than nothing.
<strong>This thread has turned into a big, giant pile of doo.
My intent was originally to draw out those posters who knew of something better coming along at MWNY. But Moki is staying silent, and ths "All Knowing" dude keeps talking out of his ass about dual 1.5 GHz G4s. LOL, MAYBE on a 100 nm process, but I doubt it.
Please, how about some REAL info?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Outta my ass huh JYD?
At least I'm not just one steaming pile of human excrement. I swear to God you change your mind so much (Apple good, bad, good, etc) that I think you suffer from schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder or something.....maybe you're bipolar?!
Problem is, you wouldn't know "REAL" or even "GOOD" information if it sat on your face. True I'm not a veteran like some others. But that doesn't mean I'm just any random 12 year old Mac-addict just discovering the effects a few BS posts can have. Far from it.
True I speculate as the rest of us do. I don't "know" what Apple is going to release at MWNY, and neither does anyone else here, not even your idolized go-to guy Moki. He has a good idea yes, based on his information.
I too make my guesses based on my information. No I'm not under any NDA about this, so I can run my mouth. As I've said many times before, I have good reason to say that Dual 1.5 Ghz G4s are on the slate. I know such prototypes exist, and have existed for *quite* some time now. I know this through a source, who has been using it in his research. Since he always has some cool Apple stuff, I trust him. Based on this, I'm predicting the timetable for their release is this summer, due to the fact that the last time he had a prototype machine it was released about the same time later (I don't want to give time periods out).
So maybe I'll talk outta my ass some more JYD. I probly have a $hitload more sources than you do, so don't make assumptions when you're so bass ackwards you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.
Sorry I'm being a dick again, I had a rough night and I don't like being insulted.
[ 06-28-2002: Message edited by: The All Knowing 1 ]</p>
G-news
<strong>Why doesn't it mean anything? And who does it mean nothing to?
Dude i bought some DDR 400 1 week ago, Corsair XMS3200. MSI, Abit and Gigabyte will have boards based on the new Via KT400 chipset very soon. The Hammer chipsets will likely have DDR400 support now, this is getting revised as we speek. As for DDR II, mid next year for the ram companies the word is as for Apple's adoption? god knows. We know that in classical Apple form they adopt these standards 1-2 years after the rest of the industry..USB 1 being the exception.
I agree however, that Apple will likely do the DDR move this July, DDR266 i would imagine-(6 months after the rest of the industry has moved on the the next best thing).
As i mentioned tho, it would probably be wiser if Apple just pulled a CPU bump at july an a full board job at SF using the very latest tech avialable at the time. That way they can ride the current hardware for a while longer instead of adopting stuff 2-3 generations behind. and milking it for 5 times longer. We all know everyone will complain like mad and i dont think Apple can afford to continually offer dated machines.
Lets just wait an see what happens. Apple needs us to spend our money but we need the fastest best value products for that money.....we havent been getting that over the past few years.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The current use of DDR 333 boards is low and any real widespread adoption isn't going to be ushered in until late in the year with DDR 400 boards not really becoming well adopted until next year. Hence why you won't see AMD bother with moving up their schedule for DDR 400.
The PC world has a need to show off their future developments and release them long before they are actually needed on the market.
The simple reason those boards don't matter though is because adoption by the top level OEMs, who are really the ones that control most of the market, aren't even switching to DDR 333 yet. The 3 largest PC manufacturers are all still selling DDR 266. They will likely change to 333 by the end of the year but nothing truly amazing there.
People need to stop looking at Apple as if they are a small shop where you can custom build things using your choice of the latest hardware. They are far more similar to the top teir OEMs, who are slow to adopt changes (mind you Apple is even slower which is sad).
DDR II won't be hitting production until Q3 so although you might be able to get a hold of it it won't seriously be looking at hitting the mainstream until 1H 2004. It would be nice to see Apple pick it up then mid-2004 although there are a number of issues that may prevent that. Somehow I see it being more likely 2005.
[ 06-28-2002: Message edited by: Telomar ]</p>
<strong>Where did the 1.6GHz G4 come from?</strong><hr></blockquote>
the stork? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
<strong>Well, I did not write this myself, but I found it some time ago over at MacNN and it describes nicely my point of view about the theme
...And thats why I use a Mac.(...)</strong><hr></blockquote>
normaly i don't read that much text in a forum.
if you can't get it short - then something is wrong.
but, this was good.
thanx for posting.
<strong>
Outta my ass huh JYD?
...
Sorry I'm being a dick again, I had a rough night and I don't like being insulted.
[ 06-28-2002: Message edited by: The All Knowing 1 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I am a newby here, so sorry if I am talking out of turn, but no need to get your panties bunched up TAK1. You need to build up your rep - and that happens by making accurate predictions. You probably do have good info, but until your predictions start coming through, you will be flamed.
J :cool:
<strong>Hmmm.
<a href="http://n0cgi.distributed.net/speed/query.cgi?cputype=all&arch=2&contest=rc5"; target="_blank">http://n0cgi.distributed.net/speed/query.cgi?cputype=all&arch=2&contest=rc5</a>;
Power PC 7450/7455 G4 1600 16,991,648
Record id CPU Name MHz OS Client Speed
8437 Power PC 7450/7455 G4 1600 MacOS X 10.1 2.8016 RC5 16,991,648</strong><hr></blockquote>
well, that's interesting, but i'm more curious about the record right below it... a PPC G3 clocked at 40 MHz?! I've never heard of such a thing (or 48MHz).
<strong>Q5? That's just after Q4, isn't it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, silly, there's a Q4.5, just like moki was talking about!
Seriously, kudos to both of you, moki and programmer. 1/2 the board made into fools, 1/2 to go
Barto
<strong>Q5? That's just after Q4, isn't it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, in an attempt to boost the yearly earnings, Apple has decided to add three extra months to a year: Macember, Stevember and Freduary.
After making an actual profit based on this exerience, they figured they could try keeping a few fabs instead of selling them off (which they considered). I actually think that we will get better than 1.2 Ghz chips next month, now that I think about it.
I've never heard of such a thing (or 48MHz).<hr></blockquote>
I think the 1000MHz machine they list is a DP 500 and the 1600 a DP 800...Everything seems out of place, as there is neither a single CPU 1GHz machine, nor a 1.6GHz machine that anyone has ever heard of.
G-News
<strong>In fact, given the number of auxiliary goodies that are coming due in late summer, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple issues a press release upgrade to the PowerMacs just to keep them ahead of any iMac updates, followed by a big new model at or after Seybold, perhaps to coincide with Jaguar (which might or might not make MWNY).</strong><hr></blockquote>
James, I would be surprised by such a move, for the reasons that so much IS slated for September (late summer, ok?
Whatever Apple has in store for the PowerMac, IMO it would be a mistake for them to hold back any longer (no, I'm not saying they've been sitting on the good stuff!): what they've got will be fully displayed @ MWNY, and the better it is, the more likely it will ship w/ Jaguar in September.
<strong>
Outta my ass huh JYD?
At least I'm not just one steaming pile of human excrement. I swear to God you change your mind so much (Apple good, bad, good, etc) that I think you suffer from schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder or something.....maybe you're bipolar?!
Problem is, you wouldn't know "REAL" or even "GOOD" information if it sat on your face. True I'm not a veteran like some others. But that doesn't mean I'm just any random 12 year old Mac-addict just discovering the effects a few BS posts can have. Far from it.
True I speculate as the rest of us do. I don't "know" what Apple is going to release at MWNY, and neither does anyone else here, not even your idolized go-to guy Moki. He has a good idea yes, based on his information.
I too make my guesses based on my information. No I'm not under any NDA about this, so I can run my mouth. As I've said many times before, I have good reason to say that Dual 1.5 Ghz G4s are on the slate. I know such prototypes exist, and have existed for *quite* some time now. I know this through a source, who has been using it in his research. Since he always has some cool Apple stuff, I trust him. Based on this, I'm predicting the timetable for their release is this summer, due to the fact that the last time he had a prototype machine it was released about the same time later (I don't want to give time periods out).
So maybe I'll talk outta my ass some more JYD. I probly have a $hitload more sources than you do, so don't make assumptions when you're so bass ackwards you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.
Sorry I'm being a dick again, I had a rough night and I don't like being insulted.
[ 06-28-2002: Message edited by: The All Knowing 1 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Feels good to be mad, doesn't it! Like being alive!
I believe you a bit more now, particularly combined with the other reports of g4s in the speed range you describe.