I produce high-end digital graphics, multimedia, video and animation where I work. Over the past several years I have used multi-button mice with our PCs and the single-button mouse with our Macs. Conclusion: I am not in any way more efficient with either approach. They are just different. Learning to use a modifier key (control-click) was not harder or easier than learning to right-click. Matter-of-fact, "control-click" = "right-click." Could this be any simpler? It's a pretty straightforward translation between platforms. The only advantage I have had with two-button mice is when I am downing a lovely beverage with one hand and trying to access a contextual menu at the same time.
Of course, when using non-linear editors, it is nice to have a shuttle dial. But that is another topic ...
Er, ZO...all wireless mice use batteries...unless you have some danegrously huge capacitor in yours...
Still, I know what you mean. I have no idea how long a typical pair of non-rechargeable lithium-ion AAs will last in the mouse, but IMO this is much more inconvenient than having rechargeable NiMH AAs and a charging station. For one, I don't have to worry so much about having extra batteries on hand. And even if I do run out of charge, I can replace the batteries with the exact same batteries the Apple uses.
As for the keyboard. I still maintain a wireless keyboard is highly undesirable. I find it a chore to balance my keyboard on my lap. I don't constantly move my keyboard. I'm fine with it having a cord. I'd hate to have to replace the batteries every few months. I'm quite sure my keyboard wouldn't last anywhere near 9 months on a single charge...especially if I forget to turn it off every time I'm done using it.
Yeah, I can't quite get the appeal of a wireless keyboard. It stays stationary, right (unless you're weird or something ).
But a wireless mouse? Yeah, that makes a bit more sense. As a matter of fact, due to how my desk is at work, I'm forever "backing up" and skootching my mouse back over to loosen the cord from this odd little corner of my desk. Gets annoying and I've often thought "you know, if I could just cut this darn wire...".
But keyboard? Hmmm...I don't get it. I don't think I've moved my keyboard more than half-an-inch in 18 months.
And, as others have said, I'd sure hate to lose those USB ports on the keyboard! My iSub is plugged into the left one and I'll sometimes hook my Zip drive into it too, to quickly access it.
EDIT: Also, if two-buttons are a problem for new users, then only offer them as an option with the Power line only. [/B]
Last time I looked you could buy multi button trackpads and mice from the Applestore, so surely it is an option for power users already... would it really be to Apples benefit to offer a two button mouse, three button mouse, track pad, when you can already buy perfectly good ones from other manufacturers.
The real reason they have introduced the Bluetooth Mouse and Keyboard is to phase out the wired ones and ship new Mac's with them (IMHO).
The only useful thing for a wireless keyboard i can think of it if you can use it to swap between multiple machines easily. Not sure how that'd work though. Seems like you need an existing input device to change the settings in the first place :P
My take on it... bluetooth wireless is cool. Buying/charging batteries when youre mouse/keyboard dies is not. Seems like it should have one-upped the other wireless solutions by having some kind of built in battery charger or something.
All I can say is I've now got a Kensington wireless 4 button mouse with scroll wheel that my friend got for me on my birthday and I'll never go back. Apple you missed the boat. Moving stuff to the trash and scrolling ( and game play ) just got a lot easier. I really don't know why Apple can be so forward thinking at times and others so backward.
Let's also not forget that the one button is easier to click than a two-button mouse. It may sound like a bad joke to you guys, but even today I still regularly deal with people (my own mother at times) using PCs that will hesitate when I give directions and ask me "left-click or right-click?"
*sigh*
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
May I add my 5 year old daughter? She has tried one-, two- and three-button mice and she prefers the classic Apple one-button mouse of course. I think Brad is right. Although I personally prefer and use everyday a two- or the classic unix three-button mouse, after many years I have still sometimes to think before click, just to not click the wrong button.[/B]
PLEASE PLEASE !! GET REAL !! I suppose true die-hard Mac-fans will find everything Cupertino has to offer mindblowing great, but how hard is it to work a two-buttoned mouse? Ok, many people will panic if you would add a scroll weel to that, but I think if you're allowed to drive a car, you should be able to handle a TB-mouse, right ?!
And I don't want to buy a third party add-on, because none of them design like Apple can (for me anyway). The only thing I can think of is that MS has some kind of patent for multi-buttoned mouses and SJ would rather die than put money on the table.
Paris wasn't "spectacular, spectacular". Apple may be devoting its resources to the G5 PB-integration, iTMS for Europe and the next iPod upgrade. When is Apple's big birthday-party?
And, as others have said, I'd sure hate to lose those USB ports on the keyboard!
I use those ports to connect my digital camera. Of course if my new G5 would ever come, that would be less of an issue.
I already use a wireless mouse, that, by the way has 5 buttons and cost less than the one Apple's offering, but I don't get the wireless keyboard thing.
That is, unless you sit in your recliner while projecting your desktop on a wall!
I use those ports to connect my digital camera. Of course if my new G5 would ever come, that would be less of an issue.
I already use a wireless mouse, that, by the way has 5 buttons and cost less than the one Apple's offering, but I don't get the wireless keyboard thing.
That is, unless you sit in your recliner while projecting your desktop on a wall!
I will not give up my USB ports! I still use my black keyboard from an older G4. White just doesn't look right next to a G5.
One button is fine. One button is fine. One button is fine. (Repeat.) It's easier for novices. Also, Apple's "0 button" mouse is cool - and practical. And if you want two buttons, well, get them. They're only $15-30.
One button is fine. One button is fine. One button is fine. (Repeat.) It's easier for novices. Also, Apple's "0 button" mouse is cool - and practical. And if you want two buttons, well, get them. They're only $15-30.
I think you should all look at it this way:
One button fits eveyone. Two buttons can tend to confuse novices. Even more makes using the computer (for a novice or small child) to thought intensive, at first.
That is not to say that if you can use more buttons and it makes your life easier, that it is best for you. Just that virtually anyone can understand the basic finction of a single button mouse.
I trained all my kids from when they were 2 years old and I will tell you that the one button mouse is easier for a child or novice to grasp.
I think apple wants everyone to use the computer and not have to manufacture an endless array of mice. It makes their life simpler.
My kids had a pc and that right button caused soooo many problems i wish they made a one button mouse for the pc.
You have a point - novice users won't think to replace their mouse if they have problems using it, and pro users who want a two (or three or four or eight) button mouse will simply buy a new one anyway. In that case, I guess Apple should include a one button mouse by default on all of their systems. However, for PC switchers who are used to 2 button mice, or for users who know how to use a two button mouse and prefer it, it should be something like a $10 upgrade fee to get a 2 button mouse with the computer.
You have a point - novice users won't think to replace their mouse if they have problems using it, and pro users who want a two (or three or four or eight) button mouse will simply buy a new one anyway. In that case, I guess Apple should include a one button mouse by default on all of their systems. However, for PC switchers who are used to 2 button mice, or for users who know how to use a two button mouse and prefer it, it should be something like a $10 upgrade fee to get a 2 button mouse with the computer.
Now that seems more reasonable. But, like it was said, I can't see SJ going for that. Although if a smart retailer would offer a trade in program for mouse and turn around and sell them on ebay those thing go for premium $$.
If you're happy with the idea that its probably fine for 'normal' use, that it uses batteries (trust me, thats by itself is a 100% reason not to buy), and that the price is pretty far out there... then go ahead.
SO are you thinking it should be solar p[owered or it needs a crank?
Um, it uses double A's right? I only use rechargeables. I haven't purchased a regular battery in years. I always have about 8 extra, fully-charged batteries at hand. After you charge them about 4 times, they've paid for themselves.
Oh, lump me in with the "one-button-is-fine" crew. I have 2 mice: One for general BS (Black Apple Pro) and one for Photoshop. My 5 button mouse cost me $20 (Kensington).
Now that seems more reasonable. But, like it was said, I can't see SJ going for that. Although if a smart retailer would offer a trade in program for mouse and turn around and sell them on ebay those thing go for premium $$.
HMMMMMM....
Well, Apple does sell third-party mice on their site. And it's not like they allow one company to take over either - you can buy mice and/or keyboards from Logitech, Kensington, and even Microsoft. The only thing is you're getting that one button mouse that some people just don't want. It would be nice if, like many PC companies, you could pick from a list of mice when custom-configuring your computer. Normally they stick you with a crappy two button, non scrolling PS/2 ball mouse, but you can upgrade to a better mouse or just forego the mouse altogether and save a few bucks if you have your own already. Same with the keyboard. I don't know if SJ would actually go for that, but it's a possibility.
Well, Apple does sell third-party mice on their site. And it's not like they allow one company to take over either - you can buy mice and/or keyboards from Logitech, Kensington, and even Microsoft. The only thing is you're getting that one button mouse that some people just don't want. It would be nice if, like many PC companies, you could pick from a list of mice when custom-configuring your computer. Normally they stick you with a crappy two button, non scrolling PS/2 ball mouse, but you can upgrade to a better mouse or just forego the mouse altogether and save a few bucks if you have your own already. Same with the keyboard. I don't know if SJ would actually go for that, but it's a possibility.
I would bet that they are selling those products to measure the demand for different types of mice...er...meeces...whatever to possibly release one or more of their own. Never know. It seams a good way to track trends.
That's probably not the greatest way to track demand for multi-button mice, because they charge more at Apple than they do at other places, and they also charge sales tax. I recently bought an eMac and I didn't buy any mice with my order - I already own a perfectly good Logitech MX500, which I bought from Amazon for about $15 less than Apple charges.
Comments
Of course, when using non-linear editors, it is nice to have a shuttle dial. But that is another topic ...
Still, I know what you mean. I have no idea how long a typical pair of non-rechargeable lithium-ion AAs will last in the mouse, but IMO this is much more inconvenient than having rechargeable NiMH AAs and a charging station. For one, I don't have to worry so much about having extra batteries on hand. And even if I do run out of charge, I can replace the batteries with the exact same batteries the Apple uses.
As for the keyboard. I still maintain a wireless keyboard is highly undesirable. I find it a chore to balance my keyboard on my lap. I don't constantly move my keyboard. I'm fine with it having a cord. I'd hate to have to replace the batteries every few months. I'm quite sure my keyboard wouldn't last anywhere near 9 months on a single charge...especially if I forget to turn it off every time I'm done using it.
But a wireless mouse? Yeah, that makes a bit more sense. As a matter of fact, due to how my desk is at work, I'm forever "backing up" and skootching my mouse back over to loosen the cord from this odd little corner of my desk. Gets annoying and I've often thought "you know, if I could just cut this darn wire...".
But keyboard? Hmmm...I don't get it. I don't think I've moved my keyboard more than half-an-inch in 18 months.
And, as others have said, I'd sure hate to lose those USB ports on the keyboard! My iSub is plugged into the left one and I'll sometimes hook my Zip drive into it too, to quickly access it.
Originally posted by Patchouli
EDIT: Also, if two-buttons are a problem for new users, then only offer them as an option with the Power line only. [/B]
Last time I looked you could buy multi button trackpads and mice from the Applestore, so surely it is an option for power users already... would it really be to Apples benefit to offer a two button mouse, three button mouse, track pad, when you can already buy perfectly good ones from other manufacturers.
The real reason they have introduced the Bluetooth Mouse and Keyboard is to phase out the wired ones and ship new Mac's with them (IMHO).
My take on it... bluetooth wireless is cool. Buying/charging batteries when youre mouse/keyboard dies is not. Seems like it should have one-upped the other wireless solutions by having some kind of built in battery charger or something.
Originally posted by Brad
Let's also not forget that the one button is easier to click than a two-button mouse. It may sound like a bad joke to you guys, but even today I still regularly deal with people (my own mother at times) using PCs that will hesitate when I give directions and ask me "left-click or right-click?"
*sigh*
Originally posted by PB
May I add my 5 year old daughter? She has tried one-, two- and three-button mice and she prefers the classic Apple one-button mouse of course. I think Brad is right. Although I personally prefer and use everyday a two- or the classic unix three-button mouse, after many years I have still sometimes to think before click, just to not click the wrong button.[/B]
PLEASE PLEASE !! GET REAL !! I suppose true die-hard Mac-fans will find everything Cupertino has to offer mindblowing great, but how hard is it to work a two-buttoned mouse? Ok, many people will panic if you would add a scroll weel to that, but I think if you're allowed to drive a car, you should be able to handle a TB-mouse, right ?!
And I don't want to buy a third party add-on, because none of them design like Apple can (for me anyway). The only thing I can think of is that MS has some kind of patent for multi-buttoned mouses and SJ would rather die than put money on the table.
Paris wasn't "spectacular, spectacular". Apple may be devoting its resources to the G5 PB-integration, iTMS for Europe and the next iPod upgrade. When is Apple's big birthday-party?
Originally posted by pscates
And, as others have said, I'd sure hate to lose those USB ports on the keyboard!
I use those ports to connect my digital camera. Of course if my new G5 would ever come, that would be less of an issue.
I already use a wireless mouse, that, by the way has 5 buttons and cost less than the one Apple's offering, but I don't get the wireless keyboard thing.
That is, unless you sit in your recliner while projecting your desktop on a wall!
Originally posted by ryukyu
I use those ports to connect my digital camera. Of course if my new G5 would ever come, that would be less of an issue.
I already use a wireless mouse, that, by the way has 5 buttons and cost less than the one Apple's offering, but I don't get the wireless keyboard thing.
That is, unless you sit in your recliner while projecting your desktop on a wall!
I will not give up my USB ports! I still use my black keyboard from an older G4. White just doesn't look right next to a G5.
Pretty lame announcement!
Originally posted by ryaxnb
One button is fine. One button is fine. One button is fine. (Repeat.) It's easier for novices. Also, Apple's "0 button" mouse is cool - and practical. And if you want two buttons, well, get them. They're only $15-30.
I think you should all look at it this way:
One button fits eveyone. Two buttons can tend to confuse novices. Even more makes using the computer (for a novice or small child) to thought intensive, at first.
That is not to say that if you can use more buttons and it makes your life easier, that it is best for you. Just that virtually anyone can understand the basic finction of a single button mouse.
I trained all my kids from when they were 2 years old and I will tell you that the one button mouse is easier for a child or novice to grasp.
I think apple wants everyone to use the computer and not have to manufacture an endless array of mice. It makes their life simpler.
My kids had a pc and that right button caused soooo many problems i wish they made a one button mouse for the pc.
Originally posted by Luca Rescigno
You have a point - novice users won't think to replace their mouse if they have problems using it, and pro users who want a two (or three or four or eight) button mouse will simply buy a new one anyway. In that case, I guess Apple should include a one button mouse by default on all of their systems. However, for PC switchers who are used to 2 button mice, or for users who know how to use a two button mouse and prefer it, it should be something like a $10 upgrade fee to get a 2 button mouse with the computer.
Now that seems more reasonable. But, like it was said, I can't see SJ going for that. Although if a smart retailer would offer a trade in program for mouse and turn around and sell them on ebay those thing go for premium $$.
HMMMMMM....
Originally posted by ZO
If you're happy with the idea that its probably fine for 'normal' use, that it uses batteries (trust me, thats by itself is a 100% reason not to buy), and that the price is pretty far out there... then go ahead.
SO are you thinking it should be solar p[owered or it needs a crank?
MSKR
Oh, lump me in with the "one-button-is-fine" crew. I have 2 mice: One for general BS (Black Apple Pro) and one for Photoshop. My 5 button mouse cost me $20 (Kensington).
Originally posted by NaplesX
Now that seems more reasonable. But, like it was said, I can't see SJ going for that. Although if a smart retailer would offer a trade in program for mouse and turn around and sell them on ebay those thing go for premium $$.
HMMMMMM....
Well, Apple does sell third-party mice on their site. And it's not like they allow one company to take over either - you can buy mice and/or keyboards from Logitech, Kensington, and even Microsoft. The only thing is you're getting that one button mouse that some people just don't want. It would be nice if, like many PC companies, you could pick from a list of mice when custom-configuring your computer. Normally they stick you with a crappy two button, non scrolling PS/2 ball mouse, but you can upgrade to a better mouse or just forego the mouse altogether and save a few bucks if you have your own already. Same with the keyboard. I don't know if SJ would actually go for that, but it's a possibility.
Originally posted by Luca Rescigno
Well, Apple does sell third-party mice on their site. And it's not like they allow one company to take over either - you can buy mice and/or keyboards from Logitech, Kensington, and even Microsoft. The only thing is you're getting that one button mouse that some people just don't want. It would be nice if, like many PC companies, you could pick from a list of mice when custom-configuring your computer. Normally they stick you with a crappy two button, non scrolling PS/2 ball mouse, but you can upgrade to a better mouse or just forego the mouse altogether and save a few bucks if you have your own already. Same with the keyboard. I don't know if SJ would actually go for that, but it's a possibility.
I would bet that they are selling those products to measure the demand for different types of mice...er...meeces...whatever to possibly release one or more of their own. Never know. It seams a good way to track trends.