These products are outrageously expensive. I can get a kensington 5 button wired moust for 20 dollars where as teh apple mouse cost 49. STUPID. Same goes for the wireless 69 dollars what a POS. 50 bucks for mx700 thats a wireless MULTIBUTTON mouse wiht cradle and rechargeable battery. Gee thats a tough choice.
I think that Apple should SWITCH to a multi button mouse to help with their SWITCH campaign. It's more an issue of perception (sort of like a placebo effect) than anything. More buttons must equal more functionality, right? I'm currently enrolled in a graduate Mac only graphics program and many of the other students have used only pc's. One of the issues they have with the Mac is the "perceived" lack of functionality of a 1 button mouse. They already think that the Mac is expensive/strange/slow but with the 1 button mouse the Mac looks less functional to them. Lets face it, most people are unwilling to change their right-clicking habits and right-clickers are the targets here. I think that multi button mouse would make the Mac look less like a step down to the potential switcher and would make the transition to OSX seem smoother.
I have a MS wireless mouse on my PC, and the standard one-button mouse that came with my G5. I want to use the MS mouse on the G5, but I feel like I'd be doing something sacrilegious!
I have a MS wireless mouse on my PC, and the standard one-button mouse that came with my G5. I want to use the MS mouse on the G5, but I feel like I'd be doing something sacrilegious!
I believe Apple is encouraging using whatever input device you prefer...i think the no button mouse is just to prove their OS is simple to use and is the easiest mouse for a beginner/child...(i've you've ever tried to teach using a computer to someone, u know it's true...right click is very confusing)
I luv using my wireless MS explorer with the dekstop (matches better w/ the grey and silver paintjob) and hope to get a bluetooth model for my powerbook - anyone know if they've got them to work well now?
I have a MS wireless mouse on my PC, and the standard one-button mouse that came with my G5. I want to use the MS mouse on the G5, but I feel like I'd be doing something sacrilegious!
They're not - they are manufactured by someone else. I don't know who, but the hockey puck mouse was manufactured by Logitech.
Um....no. the point i'm making is, why don't Apple want my money for a mouse? Of all the companies I can think of that could design a really good two button and scroll-wheel mouse (if they tried hard enough) it's Apple.
Is it even possible these days to purchase a Mac without the mouse they supply? every Mac I've ever owned came with a mouse which went straight in a drawer somewhere. I work at a college where I have 30 hockey puck mice in a box somewhere gathering dust, yet somewhere along the line all these mice had to be paid for.
How can that possibly be a good thing? how can that possibly make sense?
I guess I've answered my own question, Apple already 'do' get my money for a mouse just not one I want.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with choice, there is no real good reason that Apple couldn't design a two button mouse, the development costs would be minimal considering they are already a mouse manufacturer.
This argument is exactly backward. If you want a multibutton mouse with (or without) a scrollwheel, the world is your oyster. You have zillions of choices and configurations at all price points from every major manufacturer (Apple, I believe, still uses Logitech for their mice).
On the other hand, if you want a one button mouse, you have one choice. Well, now you have two.
So, if anything, the "choice is good" argument is in favor of Apple sticking to one-button mice, since that offers a real choice that you otherwise wouldn't have in a PC-dominated world. A two-button + scroll wheel mouse from Apple would just be one more offering in a field of hundreds, and it would have them competing with their suppliers.
(And for those of you wondering how two-button mice are hard to use, you've obviously never had to guide someone through the "right click - no, right click... the other button, on the right... no, the other right" dance of confusion, and you've never had to pay for sick time and treatment for RSI.)
This argument is exactly backward. If you want a multibutton mouse with (or without) a scrollwheel, the world is your oyster. You have zillions of choices and configurations at all price points from every major manufacturer (Apple, I believe, still uses Logitech for their mice).
On the other hand, if you want a one button mouse, you have one choice. Well, now you have two.
So, if anything, the "choice is good" argument is in favor of Apple sticking to one-button mice, since that offers a real choice that you otherwise wouldn't have in a PC-dominated world. A two-button + scroll wheel mouse from Apple would just be one more offering in a field of hundreds, and it would have them competing with their suppliers.
(And for those of you wondering how two-button mice are hard to use, you've obviously never had to guide someone through the "right click - no, right click... the other button, on the right... no, the other right" dance of confusion, and you've never had to pay for sick time and treatment for RSI.)
That's like saying fascism is good because it allows a global polital choice, despite the fact that it was forced upon most of Europe.
Apple do not sell their computers with a choice of mouse!!!
I am a software trainer, I spend my whole time teaching kids from 11 to 18 how to use software from Mail to Flash. Every Mac in my lab has a two button mouse with scroll wheel, grades are high, times are good, none of them go home crying because they just don't get the whole two button thing!
One of the arguments for keeping the one-button mouse is that is helps keep developers in check. It's an indirect method of making sure they design their GUIs right and don't use the contextual menu as the end-all solution, throwing items there that don't belong or can't be find elsewhere. This has become a pain in several Windows apps where developers have gotten lazy and throw a bunch of garbage into contextual menus.
Let's also not forget that the one button is easier to click than a two-button mouse. It may sound like a bad joke to you guys, but even today I still regularly deal with people (my own mother at times) using PCs that will hesitate when I give directions and ask me "left-click or right-click?"
If you are a more advanced user and find Apple's mouse insufficient, get a third-party one! I don't know any "advanced" PC-users that have kept the OEM mouse that shipped with their beige boxes.
*sigh*
Imagine having only one key on your keyboard. Imagine playing the piano with one finger.
Then, for the sake of common sense, just realize that everywhere else (like where I am in the library at school) people are usually using mice with two buttons.
Your blabbing about "so-and-so couldn't understand my instructions if I said to left-click or to right-click" is just so much more reason to make two-button mice be universal. Furthermore, can you imagine a situation where you would not like the ability to have a contextual menu?
You talk about hardness when it is really not hard to learn to use a two-button mouse. Just learning to sit in a different kind of chair is harder than that. Of course no one feels comfortable with new things, but when people are talking about real reasons for things it does not make sense to bring up unexplained "reasons" like keeping developers in check.
Not doing something because you haven't done it is like not learning to read just because you didn't know how when you got born.
Considering the issue from a completely non-computer vantage point, I would suggest that "a bunch of garbage" is the way something always starts out, and so having garbage in contextual menus is not a reason that contextual menus are wrong.
I just bought a new PBook. I constantly get up from my desk at home and work in different areas of the house. The wireless keyboard and mouse make sense as I will not have to constantly unwire, etc.
That's like saying fascism is good because it allows a global polital choice, despite the fact that it was forced upon most of Europe.
Your metaphors need serious work. You've killed the thread via Godwin's Law, but since this isn't USENET I'll allow it a second chance at life.
We're talking about a peripheral that works perfectly with the interface and comes free of charge, and an interface that just works with any other critter you buy (at the Apple store, even!).
Quote:
Apple do not sell their computers with a choice of mouse!!!
So all those mice at the Apple Store are an illusion? The bundled mouse prevents you from buying any other mouse? What are you talking about?
See, this is how mice are not Nazis: They don't force anything, and they don't mind if you put them in a box and use something else.
Quote:
I am a software trainer, I spend my whole time teaching kids from 11 to 18 how to use software from Mail to Flash. Every Mac in my lab has a two button mouse with scroll wheel, grades are high, times are good, none of them go home crying because they just don't get the whole two button thing!
Kids are learning machines, and the odds are that they have no idea that any other option exists (the odds that you have made sure of that are probably pretty good, too). Also, your kids are conveniently not young enough for most multibutton mice to be a PITA.
I work with adults. Some of them have used Windows for a decade solid, and they still have to be hand-held through right clicks.
If you are a more advanced user and find Apple's mouse insufficient, get a third-party one! I don't know any "advanced" PC-users that have kept the OEM mouse that shipped with their beige boxes.
*sigh*
I agree with all your points, I think, apple would be smart to release a BTO "pro" mouse, 2 buttons w/ scrollwheel.
that way, the more advanced apple user doesn't need to go 3rd party, and apple gets more rep.
Comments
Brian
Originally posted by alligator
I have a MS wireless mouse on my PC, and the standard one-button mouse that came with my G5. I want to use the MS mouse on the G5, but I feel like I'd be doing something sacrilegious!
I believe Apple is encouraging using whatever input device you prefer...i think the no button mouse is just to prove their OS is simple to use and is the easiest mouse for a beginner/child...(i've you've ever tried to teach using a computer to someone, u know it's true...right click is very confusing)
I luv using my wireless MS explorer with the dekstop (matches better w/ the grey and silver paintjob) and hope to get a bluetooth model for my powerbook - anyone know if they've got them to work well now?
Originally posted by alligator
I have a MS wireless mouse on my PC, and the standard one-button mouse that came with my G5. I want to use the MS mouse on the G5, but I feel like I'd be doing something sacrilegious!
get over it kid... use what you want
Originally posted by JLL
Bill Gates owns Logitech and Kensington?
They're not - they are manufactured by someone else. I don't know who, but the hockey puck mouse was manufactured by Logitech.
Um....no. the point i'm making is, why don't Apple want my money for a mouse? Of all the companies I can think of that could design a really good two button and scroll-wheel mouse (if they tried hard enough) it's Apple.
Is it even possible these days to purchase a Mac without the mouse they supply? every Mac I've ever owned came with a mouse which went straight in a drawer somewhere. I work at a college where I have 30 hockey puck mice in a box somewhere gathering dust, yet somewhere along the line all these mice had to be paid for.
How can that possibly be a good thing? how can that possibly make sense?
I guess I've answered my own question, Apple already 'do' get my money for a mouse just not one I want.
Originally posted by Carpetfluff
There is absolutely nothing wrong with choice, there is no real good reason that Apple couldn't design a two button mouse, the development costs would be minimal considering they are already a mouse manufacturer.
This argument is exactly backward. If you want a multibutton mouse with (or without) a scrollwheel, the world is your oyster. You have zillions of choices and configurations at all price points from every major manufacturer (Apple, I believe, still uses Logitech for their mice).
On the other hand, if you want a one button mouse, you have one choice. Well, now you have two.
So, if anything, the "choice is good" argument is in favor of Apple sticking to one-button mice, since that offers a real choice that you otherwise wouldn't have in a PC-dominated world. A two-button + scroll wheel mouse from Apple would just be one more offering in a field of hundreds, and it would have them competing with their suppliers.
(And for those of you wondering how two-button mice are hard to use, you've obviously never had to guide someone through the "right click - no, right click... the other button, on the right... no, the other right" dance of confusion, and you've never had to pay for sick time and treatment for RSI.)
I'm a-searching for one right now...
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
This one button thing is getting stupid... VERY stupid...
Ditto. If for no other reason than trying to play games with one is a serious pain-in-the-@$$ IMO!
Originally posted by Ernest eMac
Their heads must explode when they see a keyboard for the first time then.
Amen.
Originally posted by Amorph
This argument is exactly backward. If you want a multibutton mouse with (or without) a scrollwheel, the world is your oyster. You have zillions of choices and configurations at all price points from every major manufacturer (Apple, I believe, still uses Logitech for their mice).
On the other hand, if you want a one button mouse, you have one choice. Well, now you have two.
So, if anything, the "choice is good" argument is in favor of Apple sticking to one-button mice, since that offers a real choice that you otherwise wouldn't have in a PC-dominated world. A two-button + scroll wheel mouse from Apple would just be one more offering in a field of hundreds, and it would have them competing with their suppliers.
(And for those of you wondering how two-button mice are hard to use, you've obviously never had to guide someone through the "right click - no, right click... the other button, on the right... no, the other right" dance of confusion, and you've never had to pay for sick time and treatment for RSI.)
That's like saying fascism is good because it allows a global polital choice, despite the fact that it was forced upon most of Europe.
Apple do not sell their computers with a choice of mouse!!!
I am a software trainer, I spend my whole time teaching kids from 11 to 18 how to use software from Mail to Flash. Every Mac in my lab has a two button mouse with scroll wheel, grades are high, times are good, none of them go home crying because they just don't get the whole two button thing!
Originally posted by Aquatic
No recharge... terrible. Utterly terrible. Apple is/was the greenest computer company...
Well, obviously you didn't read specs properly!
The banner clearly states that the keyboard and mouse are POWERED by Bluetooth! They therefore don't require a battery...
Refund! Refund!
Originally posted by Brad
I'm with iDave.
One of the arguments for keeping the one-button mouse is that is helps keep developers in check. It's an indirect method of making sure they design their GUIs right and don't use the contextual menu as the end-all solution, throwing items there that don't belong or can't be find elsewhere. This has become a pain in several Windows apps where developers have gotten lazy and throw a bunch of garbage into contextual menus.
Let's also not forget that the one button is easier to click than a two-button mouse. It may sound like a bad joke to you guys, but even today I still regularly deal with people (my own mother at times) using PCs that will hesitate when I give directions and ask me "left-click or right-click?"
If you are a more advanced user and find Apple's mouse insufficient, get a third-party one! I don't know any "advanced" PC-users that have kept the OEM mouse that shipped with their beige boxes.
*sigh*
Imagine having only one key on your keyboard. Imagine playing the piano with one finger.
Then, for the sake of common sense, just realize that everywhere else (like where I am in the library at school) people are usually using mice with two buttons.
Your blabbing about "so-and-so couldn't understand my instructions if I said to left-click or to right-click" is just so much more reason to make two-button mice be universal. Furthermore, can you imagine a situation where you would not like the ability to have a contextual menu?
You talk about hardness when it is really not hard to learn to use a two-button mouse. Just learning to sit in a different kind of chair is harder than that. Of course no one feels comfortable with new things, but when people are talking about real reasons for things it does not make sense to bring up unexplained "reasons" like keeping developers in check.
Not doing something because you haven't done it is like not learning to read just because you didn't know how when you got born.
Considering the issue from a completely non-computer vantage point, I would suggest that "a bunch of garbage" is the way something always starts out, and so having garbage in contextual menus is not a reason that contextual menus are wrong.
MSKR
Originally posted by Carpetfluff
That's like saying fascism is good because it allows a global polital choice, despite the fact that it was forced upon most of Europe.
Your metaphors need serious work. You've killed the thread via Godwin's Law, but since this isn't USENET I'll allow it a second chance at life.
We're talking about a peripheral that works perfectly with the interface and comes free of charge, and an interface that just works with any other critter you buy (at the Apple store, even!).
Apple do not sell their computers with a choice of mouse!!!
So all those mice at the Apple Store are an illusion? The bundled mouse prevents you from buying any other mouse? What are you talking about?
See, this is how mice are not Nazis: They don't force anything, and they don't mind if you put them in a box and use something else.
I am a software trainer, I spend my whole time teaching kids from 11 to 18 how to use software from Mail to Flash. Every Mac in my lab has a two button mouse with scroll wheel, grades are high, times are good, none of them go home crying because they just don't get the whole two button thing!
Kids are learning machines, and the odds are that they have no idea that any other option exists (the odds that you have made sure of that are probably pretty good, too). Also, your kids are conveniently not young enough for most multibutton mice to be a PITA.
I work with adults. Some of them have used Windows for a decade solid, and they still have to be hand-held through right clicks.
Originally posted by Brad
If you are a more advanced user and find Apple's mouse insufficient, get a third-party one! I don't know any "advanced" PC-users that have kept the OEM mouse that shipped with their beige boxes.
*sigh*
I agree with all your points, I think, apple would be smart to release a BTO "pro" mouse, 2 buttons w/ scrollwheel.
that way, the more advanced apple user doesn't need to go 3rd party, and apple gets more rep.