Neat tests! I don't always understand them, but it looks as though the new 15" and 17" PowerBooks announced yesterday are nice machines! They seem fairly close to one another in the tests, and were pretty much smacking the older 15" and 17" models around pretty good!
I thought this part was nice:
Quote:
ANALYSIS
The new 15" (and 17") Aluminum PowerBooks don't seem to suffer from the missing level 3 cache. The larger on-chip level 2 cache seems to take care of business. The bumped up clock speed and Radeon 9600 graphics translate into better performance. Apple's going to sell a "oodles" of these!
THAT'S what those of us about to drop $1999-2599 want to hear.
Neat tests! I don't always understand them, but it looks as though the new 15" and 17" PowerBooks announced yesterday are nice machines!
Yeah, this is probably one of the first times in a while I have really felt the powerbook was in a good place. If I didn't have a Ghz Ti I would certainly get the high-end 15" (maybe just with a combo drive). I mean, the thing has everything you need in a laptop, even the backlit keyboard.
Just to add I am quite sure the new powerbooks have the MPC7447 not the 7457 as the 7457 has a 1MB-3MB L3 Cache. Also I don't see how they can be that much faster than the 1Ghz Tibook was.
the new 15" at 1Ghz has faster ram and bus which should make a little difference but not that much... this is strange. Doesn't it seem a little bit to much faster?
I'm glad to see that apple is keeping up with the centrinos. It seems like the centrino beat the G4 in two tests and the G4 won in the rest.
Why does the G4 Tibook do so poorly on the HardWare OpenGL test?
Ok guys, it was nice to be with you, see you later. I mean, in few years, when I'm buying a new PB.
It was quite tiring to read all these threads all these months of waiting for the updates. Now that I have my 17" ordered, the posts seem even more blahblah than ever.
The Powerbooks are outstanding laptops, anyway. I like the benchmark tests, too. And nothing can suit everybody, so why don't you just choose whatever fits YOU best - if it's a Dell - there you go! Enjoy!
So PowerBooks are doomed in performance until the G5? Because of Moto's maxbus? I guess it can't go above 167. I read somewhere it might be able to squeeze 200 but that's still half or less of the speed on a DDR PC system. Note though, that Apple PowerBooks are even finer then Apple desktops. They are the finest crafted computers in the world. They are very sturdy. Very well built. That is what you pay for. Also, once Apple dumps Motorola once and for all and we have G5 PowerBooks, I'm guessing sometime next year, we'll be laughing at PC notebooks. I mean how long will it be until you can buy a 64bit WinBook, half a decade?
Yeah, I'd ride it. Sure. BUT I wouldn't stay up nights worrying about what it had under the hood compared to my Saturn or whatever, and freaking out and bitching about it...like a lot of you here do with regards to the whole "PC vs. Mac" thing.
That's the difference.
Agreed
Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
Yuck! It reminds me of the Bugatti Veyron...DOUBLE YUCK!!
Well you lucked out, they've decided not to put it into production. Woulda been nice to have a german supercar to compete with the itallians'. But there's always the McLaren F1 with Beemer's 627hp V12
After looking at those scores (hopefully not completely skewed) the only thing the centrino kills it in is Cinebench. Is this something highly optimized for the G4? If so why does the centrino piss on the G4 in this test?
The only thing I can say is wow, I am very happy to be getting a computer that is as fast as the PC side. Not to mention the OS and actual niceness of the hardware in comparison. Haha even my friends who know nothing about computers are happy for me...sure they are half joking but some of them are impressed buy it already...wait till they see it ; )
That's what I'm talking about earlier in the thread. Some of you people simply need to learn to get past the numbers and numbers only crap. I mean, honestly.
It's a dumb way to compare and evaluate something like computers because no one sits there, actually going "ooh, this feels like a 200MHz bus..." or whatever. You don't measure and take this stuff in on that one front alone. You can't. And you shouldn't.
I've always believed it's a wonderful, multi-pronged thing: you take the hardware - sleek and beautiful and the object of envy for anyone with a clue and a remote sense of design and style - and you marry that with the OS. And let's be completely honest here...is there any reason to even argue this point or waste space explaining this one? My gosh...OS X is YEARS ahead of the other stuff (hell, it makes OS 9 look downright Windows-y).
Then roll in things like the iApps and all of Apple's recent cool goodies (iCal, iSync, Backup and iChat...ALL of which I use nearly every day, to some degree).
Man, the music stuff ALONE (iTunes, music store and iPod) would make me want to "switch" if I was using a Gateway and Windows.
Yeah, it's frustrating at times. But it's bound to get better. We've just been hamstrung by Motorola for so long that we take it for granted we'll always be coming up short in the power/performance arena. But I do believe that's on its way to changing for the better. And when it does...
Yeah, it's frustrating at times. But it's bound to get better. We've just been hamstrung by Motorola for so long that we take it for granted we'll always be coming up short in the power/performance arena.
Except that, if you look at the benchmarks, the G4 isn't coming up short. It's there or ahead, and only losing in e.g. Cinebench, which is an oddly hostile benchmark to Macs of all flavors (and similarly very flattering to Athlons). I'm not insinuating anything about Maxon's developers, as I'm sure they'd prefer to see their baby scream on everything, but it's been consistent right through to the bandwidth-happy G5.
The G4 didn't do well in towers. It's at home in notebooks. Put it up against anything truly portable (not boat anchors like the Alienware or its ilk) and it holds its own well, with better battery life to boot.
Motorola's done enough wrong that we don't need to make up shortcomings.
(As for the OpenGL test, I'd like more information. A lot of PC drivers only have what John Carmack dismisses as the "Quake subset" tuned for performance above all, while Apple provides the sort of complete, accurate implementation that would ship with a pro card like a Quadro. If this is the case, and one machine's "OpenGL" isn't the other's OpenGL, then it's not a fair benchmark.)
To be honest, comparing Centrino laptops vs G4 laptops is kind of ridiculous. There are many factors that can affect the scores of each processor on these programs, for example that the programs contains specific optimizations toward one machine.
To get a decent and comporable results, I would like to see someone compile a linux kernel on both machines and compare the times. Of course, normal optimizations.
Also, mp3 encoding with Lame in Linux command line with all useless services disable or mpeg2 encoding is another good test.
This way, we eliminate the operating system factor. I'm not suggesting that Mac OS X is inferior or Windows XP. But, Mac OS X tends to take a good deal of resources like Windows. Eliminate this factor and we can get a level playing field.
I was reviewing PC laptops today, after the introduction of the new "refresh" of G4 Powerbooks yesterday.
The Centrino chip is very good per clock cycle, as well as having very good power management. I think that it compares well to the mobile G4 chip, though the Intel chip frankly generates better numbers. The choice of video circuitry on the PC side of the fence is absolutely horrid though.
If you're even remotely interested in gaming, you need to buy a laptop that is approximately on par with the new 15" Powerbook. The Radeon 9600 is a very nice graphics chip indeed, but at least the "low end" 12" model has something that blows away everything that the PC laptops in the competitive price range sport. Integrated "Extreme" Intel graphics chips anyone? Bleck.
I think the choice between the two platforms mainly comes down to what you need a laptop for. If you need ultra-portable design, I think that Apple offers far more than the competition. Multimedia abilities? Don't think I've ever seen a PC laptop with Firewire. Battery life? Tie between Centrino laptop and an Apple one.
I'm a little torn myself, because note taking in school can easily be done on a Mac, but I'm not sure what my more advance programming courses will be using as a platform (I've heard Unix is a major core of it). We're currently using Java, which means any platform goes. Also going to be doing MIS as my major, so lots of database work. Decisions, decisions.
That's what I'm talking about earlier in the thread. Some of you people simply need to learn to get past the numbers and numbers only crap. I mean, honestly.
Thanks Pscates. Must say that I truly enjoy your posts. Why? Because they often remind me not to fall into the continuously luring trap of the mind of a ?quote ?specwhore- unquote?. Since I bought my first Mac (3 years isn?t even that a long time ago), I always wondered why it had such and effect on me: was it the mindblowing design, it?s durability, the OS, the applications ease of use, abundant functionality, the sincere FY to the windoze monopoly, the ?feel good rush? buying from an innovating company, to not follow the mainstream, ? probably all of them. I? am sure of one thing though, at that time I didn?t even bother to compare specs with the PC market. So why should I start now? Obviously it doesn?t really matter to me to have a x Mb or a y Mhz more, just to be able to say I had to wait 20 seconds less to do whatever live saving operation or brag about kicking a PC?s ass .... I just want to enjoy it.
Isn?t it kind of obvious that what ?s often talked about on these boards and what seems to cause most aggravation, are the pure number crunching results; that?s EXACTLY the way how PC manufacturers have differentiated themselves from the competition (or Apple the other way around). And that is ALL they have left to compete with (except from the price, but since I?m a millionaire?). So why complain then, we should be celebrating, and as Pscates puts it, wouldn?t you like to see the day when that last stronghold comes thumbling down?!
I try comparing it to a car. There are probably very few people that really need F1 horse power. Hell, for all I know most countries don?t even allow driving at that high speeds (can?t imagine the government putting limitations on the use of certain computers, ). Most people, I guess, need a nice looking, comfortable car, that gets them places. Durable, good residual value, not too big for parking reasons, a smooth running engine with nice mileage, good maintenance service, and all the thingies that make driving enjoyable: a large trunk and glove compartment, easy getting in and out through whichever door you choose, a nifty sound system, a great view, mobile communication, and of course ? a backlit dashboard.
Almost fell pray, but have been saved (again). Thank you.
PS. Had hoped for a PB price correction in Europe though (cfr. iPod)
Comments
Bare feats just put up some new tests:
http://www.barefeats.com/al15.html
Granted, you can't always trust his numbers, but it's a good start.
Originally posted by giant
Bare feats just put up some new tests....
Anyone want to ask them to put up battery life times for that Centrino vs. the Apple portables?
I thought this part was nice:
ANALYSIS
The new 15" (and 17") Aluminum PowerBooks don't seem to suffer from the missing level 3 cache. The larger on-chip level 2 cache seems to take care of business. The bumped up clock speed and Radeon 9600 graphics translate into better performance. Apple's going to sell a "oodles" of these!
THAT'S what those of us about to drop $1999-2599 want to hear.
Originally posted by pscates
Neat tests! I don't always understand them, but it looks as though the new 15" and 17" PowerBooks announced yesterday are nice machines!
Yeah, this is probably one of the first times in a while I have really felt the powerbook was in a good place. If I didn't have a Ghz Ti I would certainly get the high-end 15" (maybe just with a combo drive). I mean, the thing has everything you need in a laptop, even the backlit keyboard.
/me hides credit card
the new 15" at 1Ghz has faster ram and bus which should make a little difference but not that much... this is strange. Doesn't it seem a little bit to much faster?
I'm glad to see that apple is keeping up with the centrinos. It seems like the centrino beat the G4 in two tests and the G4 won in the rest.
Why does the G4 Tibook do so poorly on the HardWare OpenGL test?
It was quite tiring to read all these threads all these months of waiting for the updates. Now that I have my 17" ordered, the posts seem even more blahblah than ever.
The Powerbooks are outstanding laptops, anyway. I like the benchmark tests, too. And nothing can suit everybody, so why don't you just choose whatever fits YOU best - if it's a Dell - there you go! Enjoy!
Well, that's it. No offense
See you, hopefully not soon!!
j,-
Sorry honey, I can't talk to you now. I'm busy waiting for the PowerBook Come.
Either I missed a BTO option somewhere, or you have a very unique typing method that your PowerBook really likes.
Originally posted by pscates
THAT'S what those of us about to drop $1999-2599 want to hear.
True.
Originally posted by pscates
Yeah, I'd ride it. Sure. BUT I wouldn't stay up nights worrying about what it had under the hood compared to my Saturn or whatever, and freaking out and bitching about it...like a lot of you here do with regards to the whole "PC vs. Mac" thing.
That's the difference.
Agreed
Originally posted by Eugene
Yuck! It reminds me of the Bugatti Veyron...DOUBLE YUCK!!
Well you lucked out, they've decided not to put it into production. Woulda been nice to have a german supercar to compete with the itallians'. But there's always the McLaren F1 with Beemer's 627hp V12
and MB's SLR
Originally posted by murbot
/me rubs slow old 867MHz PB
/me hides credit card
So, ah... Mur... uh.. how much would you want to sell it for?
Nick
The only thing I can say is wow, I am very happy to be getting a computer that is as fast as the PC side. Not to mention the OS and actual niceness of the hardware in comparison. Haha even my friends who know nothing about computers are happy for me...sure they are half joking but some of them are impressed buy it already...wait till they see it ; )
It's a dumb way to compare and evaluate something like computers because no one sits there, actually going "ooh, this feels like a 200MHz bus..." or whatever. You don't measure and take this stuff in on that one front alone. You can't. And you shouldn't.
I've always believed it's a wonderful, multi-pronged thing: you take the hardware - sleek and beautiful and the object of envy for anyone with a clue and a remote sense of design and style - and you marry that with the OS. And let's be completely honest here...is there any reason to even argue this point or waste space explaining this one? My gosh...OS X is YEARS ahead of the other stuff (hell, it makes OS 9 look downright Windows-y).
Then roll in things like the iApps and all of Apple's recent cool goodies (iCal, iSync, Backup and iChat...ALL of which I use nearly every day, to some degree).
Man, the music stuff ALONE (iTunes, music store and iPod) would make me want to "switch" if I was using a Gateway and Windows.
Yeah, it's frustrating at times. But it's bound to get better. We've just been hamstrung by Motorola for so long that we take it for granted we'll always be coming up short in the power/performance arena. But I do believe that's on its way to changing for the better. And when it does...
Holy shit.
Don't you want to be around for THAT?!?!
Originally posted by pscates
Yeah, it's frustrating at times. But it's bound to get better. We've just been hamstrung by Motorola for so long that we take it for granted we'll always be coming up short in the power/performance arena.
Except that, if you look at the benchmarks, the G4 isn't coming up short. It's there or ahead, and only losing in e.g. Cinebench, which is an oddly hostile benchmark to Macs of all flavors (and similarly very flattering to Athlons). I'm not insinuating anything about Maxon's developers, as I'm sure they'd prefer to see their baby scream on everything, but it's been consistent right through to the bandwidth-happy G5.
The G4 didn't do well in towers. It's at home in notebooks. Put it up against anything truly portable (not boat anchors like the Alienware or its ilk) and it holds its own well, with better battery life to boot.
Motorola's done enough wrong that we don't need to make up shortcomings.
(As for the OpenGL test, I'd like more information. A lot of PC drivers only have what John Carmack dismisses as the "Quake subset" tuned for performance above all, while Apple provides the sort of complete, accurate implementation that would ship with a pro card like a Quadro. If this is the case, and one machine's "OpenGL" isn't the other's OpenGL, then it's not a fair benchmark.)
To get a decent and comporable results, I would like to see someone compile a linux kernel on both machines and compare the times. Of course, normal optimizations.
Also, mp3 encoding with Lame in Linux command line with all useless services disable or mpeg2 encoding is another good test.
This way, we eliminate the operating system factor. I'm not suggesting that Mac OS X is inferior or Windows XP. But, Mac OS X tends to take a good deal of resources like Windows. Eliminate this factor and we can get a level playing field.
The Centrino chip is very good per clock cycle, as well as having very good power management. I think that it compares well to the mobile G4 chip, though the Intel chip frankly generates better numbers. The choice of video circuitry on the PC side of the fence is absolutely horrid though.
If you're even remotely interested in gaming, you need to buy a laptop that is approximately on par with the new 15" Powerbook. The Radeon 9600 is a very nice graphics chip indeed, but at least the "low end" 12" model has something that blows away everything that the PC laptops in the competitive price range sport. Integrated "Extreme" Intel graphics chips anyone? Bleck.
I think the choice between the two platforms mainly comes down to what you need a laptop for. If you need ultra-portable design, I think that Apple offers far more than the competition. Multimedia abilities? Don't think I've ever seen a PC laptop with Firewire. Battery life? Tie between Centrino laptop and an Apple one.
I'm a little torn myself, because note taking in school can easily be done on a Mac, but I'm not sure what my more advance programming courses will be using as a platform (I've heard Unix is a major core of it). We're currently using Java, which means any platform goes. Also going to be doing MIS as my major, so lots of database work. Decisions, decisions.
Originally posted by pscates
That's what I'm talking about earlier in the thread. Some of you people simply need to learn to get past the numbers and numbers only crap. I mean, honestly.
Thanks Pscates. Must say that I truly enjoy your posts. Why? Because they often remind me not to fall into the continuously luring trap of the mind of a ?quote ?specwhore- unquote?. Since I bought my first Mac (3 years isn?t even that a long time ago), I always wondered why it had such and effect on me: was it the mindblowing design, it?s durability, the OS, the applications ease of use, abundant functionality, the sincere FY to the windoze monopoly, the ?feel good rush? buying from an innovating company, to not follow the mainstream, ? probably all of them. I? am sure of one thing though, at that time I didn?t even bother to compare specs with the PC market. So why should I start now? Obviously it doesn?t really matter to me to have a x Mb or a y Mhz more, just to be able to say I had to wait 20 seconds less to do whatever live saving operation or brag about kicking a PC?s ass .... I just want to enjoy it.
Isn?t it kind of obvious that what ?s often talked about on these boards and what seems to cause most aggravation, are the pure number crunching results; that?s EXACTLY the way how PC manufacturers have differentiated themselves from the competition (or Apple the other way around). And that is ALL they have left to compete with (except from the price, but since I?m a millionaire?). So why complain then, we should be celebrating, and as Pscates puts it, wouldn?t you like to see the day when that last stronghold comes thumbling down?!
I try comparing it to a car. There are probably very few people that really need F1 horse power. Hell, for all I know most countries don?t even allow driving at that high speeds (can?t imagine the government putting limitations on the use of certain computers,
Almost fell pray, but have been saved (again). Thank you.
PS. Had hoped for a PB price correction in Europe though (cfr. iPod)