Hi there, if one had say a high spec Mac (dual G5, loads of RAM, good graphics etc) would it be possible to run a decent PC game under virtual PC?
Nope because VPC doesn't work on a G5. Even if it did, though, you probably won't be able to play anything but old games because VPC doesn't emulate a very good graphics card.
And once Microsoft gets VPC working on the G5 (*if* Microsoft gets it working), it'll be a great deal slower than it already is because they'll have to bloat up the code to do the endian-flipping in software rather than letting the CPU handle it automatically.
That is unbelievable that this little feature isn't on the G5. Also if not then I'm sure it will be on the next version. Also, why can't OS X let VPC use the graphics card? What if you had TWO in your computer, maybe then? I just don't buy this whole "it's impossible" thing about VPC not being able to use 3d acceleration. And it's sad to see it won't run on a G5.
Also, why can't OS X let VPC use the graphics card?
VPC *could* use the GPU for 3D acceleration. There's nothing in OS X stopping it.
In fact, it used to. Virtual PC 3 had acceleration for 3dfx's Voodoo1 and Voodoo2 cards.
Was that support removed because they were too lazy to update the software to keep up with the newer video cards and processors? Or was it because there were more technical issues that they chose not to explain? Take your pick.
All Connectix officially said was:
Quote:
Virtual PC 4.0 does not contain support for 3D hardware acceleration. To date, we have avoided adding 3D support because of the complex issues involved. There are many technical obstacles to providing 3D acceleration support from within an emulator - most of them are not obvious at first glance. We will be exploring the feasibility of 3D emulation in the future, but we felt that faster core processor emulation was of greater importance to most of our current Virtual PC users.
...
The decision to drop Voodoo support was supported by marketing research showing that the vast majority of Virtual PC customers use the product for business and education applications where 3D support is of limited use. Users who want Voodoo compatibility should stick with Virtual PC 3.0.
Kurt Schmucker
Director, Macintosh Products
Connectix Corporation
The explanation also mentions the endian issue and the use of AltiVec, but it doesn't very clearly explain why the little 3D support that was present was dropped. You can read it here.
I've been playing command & conquer red alert on my powerbook 12" on VirtualPC :-)!
If that's not enough for you, buy a playstation2 :-)
Yeah!? Well that's a start, but I'm thinking more recent games... Battlefield 1942, Grand Theft Auto III / Vice City, the imminent Half Life 2, and so on.
Hmmm, had a shufty around the Microsoft site and they reckon they are working *hard* to get the next full release of VPC running on the G5. From reading around the various Mac newsgroups, I also get the feeling that MS will actually produce a decent version of VPC as there seems to be a feeling that they will stop producing Office for Mac at some point and leave Mac users with the option of running the windows version under VPC. Guess that would put a stop to all the Mac vs. PC incompatibilities in office once and for all.
That's the only thing that puts me off switching completely to Mac - the lack of games available. Most companies don't port the decent games over to Mac for financial reasons - they think there won't be enough sales to justify the investment. Not sure how true that is as I'm quite new to the Mac world. Everything else I do can be done a lot more happily on the Mac and given the price of both PCs and Macs, I can't justify having both. So I guess I'll have to stick with the wintel world for now.
I was quite interested in the whole Maklar (sp.?) thing - that you could run OSX on an Intel machine. Would have been pretty neat as I imagine you could dual boot and have the best of both worlds rather than trying to emulate. But then, the Mac hardware is soooo seductive...
I guess as Aquatic says, directX is the key - if that was implemented fully somehow in VPC, then a lot of problems would be solved as directX does most of the interfacing of hardware / software for games as I understand it...
For about double the cost of Virtual PC and a copy of Windows, you can go to TCWO.com and build a machine that will give you four or five times the performance. And if you want to experience the thrills of PC gaming without spending much cash at all, grab an Xbox. It's a fine product, to say it bears the MS name.
For about double the cost of Virtual PC and a copy of Windows, you can go to TCWO.com and build a machine that will give you four or five times the performance. And if you want to experience the thrills of PC gaming without spending much cash at all, grab an Xbox. It's a fine product, to say it bears the MS name.
Good point I love my powerbook and keep everquest and war craft III (untill Halo comes out in a week or so) for when I'm on the road.
But for lots of gaming I play my X-box...n no drivers to load.. no video card issues.. just pop in a disc and play..
I agree!! The Xbox is only good as a cheap server and as a paper weight! ^_^. lol as a matter of fact "xbox" is considered an evil word in my Direct Connect hub. my bot'll kick and temp ban you for saying it in any shape or form.
I thought the newer, smaller controller was dead-on. But oh well. I own every console, with a respective library of titles for each, and I can tell you that Xbox Live is easily the greatest thing to happen to console gaming in a half-decade, and it's a fine casual substitute for the complexities of PC gaming, not to mention, I'll take a big-screen TV, 5.1 system, and a comfy couch over the crunch of a desk any day. I think it's the best thing MS has ever done. Even PC people are able to admit that Apple really did something great with the iPod, even if they aren't fond of Macs in general, but I guess Mac lovers aren't so forgiving.
I can feel the XBox's cheap construction. Especially in the DVD drive. That said, it r0x0rz d00d! Halo is my favorite game EVAR and it's so much fun to play, say, 4v4 Capture The Flag or something. Especially when the people on the other team start getting on each other's nerves and fighting each other, that makes it really easy for me to just run in and take their flag without anyone noticing.
Seriously, everyone here is so quick to say "XBox sucks! GameCube rocks because it has a PPC processor!" You know what? Big f'n deal. They both run the Mac OS about as well as the other. And the XBox has a hard drive instead of one of those crappy memory cards. And the XBox has better graphics. Some people here make various stabs at Bungie/MS because of how long Halo was delayed, but I say who cares? It eventually came out, and it's an awesome game, so why does it matter?
In an ideal world, everyone would be like John Carmack, and develop their games in OpenGL.
For example, the Radeon 9600 mobile chip is a DirectX 9 part, supporting shaders (among other things). Initially I couldn't remember what benefit this was to Mac OS X, but immediately realized that I had also heard that the new versions of OpenGL will include support for the shader routines.
DirectX has become increasingly integral to the design of PC games, which probably made it more and more difficult for Connectix to maintain emulated support for PC games. Not to mention that I would imagine that emulated PC games on a Mac would run rather slow. (Not Mac bashing, just pointing out that emulation slows things down a LOT)
I thought the newer, smaller controller was dead-on. But oh well. I own every console, with a respective library of titles for each, and I can tell you that Xbox Live is easily the greatest thing to happen to console gaming in a half-decade, and it's a fine casual substitute for the complexities of PC gaming, not to mention, I'll take a big-screen TV, 5.1 system, and a comfy couch over the crunch of a desk any day. I think it's the best thing MS has ever done. Even PC people are able to admit that Apple really did something great with the iPod, even if they aren't fond of Macs in general, but I guess Mac lovers aren't so forgiving.
Did I say that? No. Games are supposed to be fun. Outside Halo XBox is for B class shooter and stupid sports games (honestly, get outside and play a real sport. Or play Mario Tennis or Mario Golf. )
Smash brothers, Mario Party, Soul Cali, all the games for the Cube are just more fun. And the PS 2 has way more games, and better games, then the XBOX as well. And I'm sure the PS 3 will be out way before the XBox 2. We diss the XBOX not only because it's from an evil company trying to kill everything else including our beloved Nintendo, but also because it really does suck. Look at the controller. Granted Nintendo really f'd up when they changed the Cube's controller. the 64 was perfect.
Outside Halo XBox is for B class shooter and stupid sports games (honestly, get outside and play a real sport. Or play Mario Tennis or Mario Golf. )
Smash brothers, Mario Party, Soul Cali, all the games for the Cube are just more fun.
Well, Soul Caliber II is actually pretty cumbersome with the unorthodox GameCube controller (I prefer the smaller Xbox one), and it runs in 1280x867 HD resolution on the Xbox as opposed to 640x480 on the GameCube. And Camelot's still working on Mario Tennis. As for the already-released Golf, I'm undecided.
If you own a Mac and no PC, are you going to be able to play games like Deus Ex II, Half-Life 2, Doom III, Mafia, Max Payne 2, and so forth? Many people in the industry would argue that they're far from B-class. If you own a PC and are looking for exclusive content, the future is bright as well, with MS now commanding Rare, with the Conker update, stylized modern beat-em-up Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Namco's Breakdown, Tecmo's Ninja Gaiden successor, and titles by famed designer Peter Molyneux like B.C. and Fable? Not to mention the best versions of games like potential masterpiece Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, et all.
And if you want online play, there's only one console to turn to (well, unless your name's Electronic Arts). I tend to prefer Xbox Live over the PC, because of such perks as unified voice communication, unified ID, auto-patching, complete and utter absence of cheating, and so on. So, yes, it is a fantastic alternative. Most modern Macs can't even play PPC-optimized games like UT2003 without huge compromises (the G5 is the only real "gaming" system in Apple's lineup), so how do you expect to do so through EMULATION? Want PC-styled games and own a Mac? Buy an Xbox. It's that simple.
Does this thread make me look totally pro-Microsoft? It might. But that black monstrosity has arguably done more for console gaming than the iPod has done for portable music; and not only through feature-completeness in the hardware and comprehensive online solution, but it's clear that freedom-oriented, nonlinear Western game design first found on PC has affected almost every developer. To judge it on name alone would be highly hypocritical, after all the affection Apple's deck-of-cards-sized music library has garnered from the Windows world. It's not always black and white, people (though the Xbox and iPod are, respectively ).
I can feel the XBox's cheap construction. Especially in the DVD drive. That said, it r0x0rz d00d! Halo is my favorite game EVAR and it's so much fun to play, say, 4v4 Capture The Flag or something. Especially when the people on the other team start getting on each other's nerves and fighting each other, that makes it really easy for me to just run in and take their flag without anyone noticing.
Seriously, everyone here is so quick to say "XBox sucks! GameCube rocks because it has a PPC processor!" You know what? Big f'n deal. They both run the Mac OS about as well as the other. And the XBox has a hard drive instead of one of those crappy memory cards. And the XBox has better graphics. Some people here make various stabs at Bungie/MS because of how long Halo was delayed, but I say who cares? It eventually came out, and it's an awesome game, so why does it matter?
Well said!
I agree.. I own a powerbook.. it doesn't mean I have to hate everything M$ makes. I love the xbox.. play it often. I don't think there is another console that can match it right now!
Comments
Originally posted by Indecisive PC user
Hi there, if one had say a high spec Mac (dual G5, loads of RAM, good graphics etc) would it be possible to run a decent PC game under virtual PC?
Nope because VPC doesn't work on a G5. Even if it did, though, you probably won't be able to play anything but old games because VPC doesn't emulate a very good graphics card.
Originally posted by torifile
Nope because VPC doesn't work on a G5.
Bingo.
And once Microsoft gets VPC working on the G5 (*if* Microsoft gets it working), it'll be a great deal slower than it already is because they'll have to bloat up the code to do the endian-flipping in software rather than letting the CPU handle it automatically.
*sigh*
Originally posted by Aquatic
Also, why can't OS X let VPC use the graphics card?
VPC *could* use the GPU for 3D acceleration. There's nothing in OS X stopping it.
In fact, it used to. Virtual PC 3 had acceleration for 3dfx's Voodoo1 and Voodoo2 cards.
Was that support removed because they were too lazy to update the software to keep up with the newer video cards and processors? Or was it because there were more technical issues that they chose not to explain? Take your pick.
All Connectix officially said was:
Virtual PC 4.0 does not contain support for 3D hardware acceleration. To date, we have avoided adding 3D support because of the complex issues involved. There are many technical obstacles to providing 3D acceleration support from within an emulator - most of them are not obvious at first glance. We will be exploring the feasibility of 3D emulation in the future, but we felt that faster core processor emulation was of greater importance to most of our current Virtual PC users.
...
The decision to drop Voodoo support was supported by marketing research showing that the vast majority of Virtual PC customers use the product for business and education applications where 3D support is of limited use. Users who want Voodoo compatibility should stick with Virtual PC 3.0.
Kurt Schmucker
Director, Macintosh Products
Connectix Corporation
The explanation also mentions the endian issue and the use of AltiVec, but it doesn't very clearly explain why the little 3D support that was present was dropped. You can read it here.
I've been playing command & conquer red alert on my powerbook 12" on VirtualPC :-)!
If that's not enough for you, buy a playstation2 :-)
Originally posted by future-ex-pc-user
Yes you can play decent games!
I've been playing command & conquer red alert on my powerbook 12" on VirtualPC :-)!
If that's not enough for you, buy a playstation2 :-)
Yeah!? Well that's a start, but I'm thinking more recent games... Battlefield 1942, Grand Theft Auto III / Vice City, the imminent Half Life 2, and so on.
That's the only thing that puts me off switching completely to Mac - the lack of games available. Most companies don't port the decent games over to Mac for financial reasons - they think there won't be enough sales to justify the investment. Not sure how true that is as I'm quite new to the Mac world. Everything else I do can be done a lot more happily on the Mac and given the price of both PCs and Macs, I can't justify having both. So I guess I'll have to stick with the wintel world for now.
I was quite interested in the whole Maklar (sp.?) thing - that you could run OSX on an Intel machine. Would have been pretty neat as I imagine you could dual boot and have the best of both worlds rather than trying to emulate. But then, the Mac hardware is soooo seductive...
I guess as Aquatic says, directX is the key - if that was implemented fully somehow in VPC, then a lot of problems would be solved as directX does most of the interfacing of hardware / software for games as I understand it...
Well, I live in hope...
Originally posted by Steve
For about double the cost of Virtual PC and a copy of Windows, you can go to TCWO.com and build a machine that will give you four or five times the performance. And if you want to experience the thrills of PC gaming without spending much cash at all, grab an Xbox. It's a fine product, to say it bears the MS name.
Good point I love my powerbook and keep everquest and war craft III (untill Halo comes out in a week or so) for when I'm on the road.
But for lots of gaming I play my X-box...n no drivers to load.. no video card issues.. just pop in a disc and play..
Xbox. It's a fine product,
The controller alone is bad enough to not use it.
Originally posted by Aquatic
The controller alone is bad enough to not use it.
I agree!!
Seriously, everyone here is so quick to say "XBox sucks! GameCube rocks because it has a PPC processor!" You know what? Big f'n deal. They both run the Mac OS about as well as the other. And the XBox has a hard drive instead of one of those crappy memory cards. And the XBox has better graphics. Some people here make various stabs at Bungie/MS because of how long Halo was delayed, but I say who cares? It eventually came out, and it's an awesome game, so why does it matter?
For example, the Radeon 9600 mobile chip is a DirectX 9 part, supporting shaders (among other things). Initially I couldn't remember what benefit this was to Mac OS X, but immediately realized that I had also heard that the new versions of OpenGL will include support for the shader routines.
DirectX has become increasingly integral to the design of PC games, which probably made it more and more difficult for Connectix to maintain emulated support for PC games. Not to mention that I would imagine that emulated PC games on a Mac would run rather slow. (Not Mac bashing, just pointing out that emulation slows things down a LOT)
I thought the newer, smaller controller was dead-on. But oh well. I own every console, with a respective library of titles for each, and I can tell you that Xbox Live is easily the greatest thing to happen to console gaming in a half-decade, and it's a fine casual substitute for the complexities of PC gaming, not to mention, I'll take a big-screen TV, 5.1 system, and a comfy couch over the crunch of a desk any day. I think it's the best thing MS has ever done. Even PC people are able to admit that Apple really did something great with the iPod, even if they aren't fond of Macs in general, but I guess Mac lovers aren't so forgiving.
Did I say that? No. Games are supposed to be fun. Outside Halo XBox is for B class shooter and stupid sports games (honestly, get outside and play a real sport. Or play Mario Tennis or Mario Golf.
Smash brothers, Mario Party, Soul Cali, all the games for the Cube are just more fun. And the PS 2 has way more games, and better games, then the XBOX as well. And I'm sure the PS 3 will be out way before the XBox 2. We diss the XBOX not only because it's from an evil company trying to kill everything else including our beloved Nintendo, but also because it really does suck. Look at the controller. Granted Nintendo really f'd up when they changed the Cube's controller. the 64 was perfect.
Originally posted by Aquatic
Outside Halo XBox is for B class shooter and stupid sports games (honestly, get outside and play a real sport. Or play Mario Tennis or Mario Golf.
Smash brothers, Mario Party, Soul Cali, all the games for the Cube are just more fun.
Well, Soul Caliber II is actually pretty cumbersome with the unorthodox GameCube controller (I prefer the smaller Xbox one), and it runs in 1280x867 HD resolution on the Xbox as opposed to 640x480 on the GameCube. And Camelot's still working on Mario Tennis. As for the already-released Golf, I'm undecided.
If you own a Mac and no PC, are you going to be able to play games like Deus Ex II, Half-Life 2, Doom III, Mafia, Max Payne 2, and so forth? Many people in the industry would argue that they're far from B-class. If you own a PC and are looking for exclusive content, the future is bright as well, with MS now commanding Rare, with the Conker update, stylized modern beat-em-up Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Namco's Breakdown, Tecmo's Ninja Gaiden successor, and titles by famed designer Peter Molyneux like B.C. and Fable? Not to mention the best versions of games like potential masterpiece Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, et all.
And if you want online play, there's only one console to turn to (well, unless your name's Electronic Arts). I tend to prefer Xbox Live over the PC, because of such perks as unified voice communication, unified ID, auto-patching, complete and utter absence of cheating, and so on. So, yes, it is a fantastic alternative. Most modern Macs can't even play PPC-optimized games like UT2003 without huge compromises (the G5 is the only real "gaming" system in Apple's lineup), so how do you expect to do so through EMULATION? Want PC-styled games and own a Mac? Buy an Xbox. It's that simple.
Does this thread make me look totally pro-Microsoft? It might. But that black monstrosity has arguably done more for console gaming than the iPod has done for portable music; and not only through feature-completeness in the hardware and comprehensive online solution, but it's clear that freedom-oriented, nonlinear Western game design first found on PC has affected almost every developer. To judge it on name alone would be highly hypocritical, after all the affection Apple's deck-of-cards-sized music library has garnered from the Windows world. It's not always black and white, people (though the Xbox and iPod are, respectively
Originally posted by Luca Rescigno
I can feel the XBox's cheap construction. Especially in the DVD drive. That said, it r0x0rz d00d! Halo is my favorite game EVAR and it's so much fun to play, say, 4v4 Capture The Flag or something. Especially when the people on the other team start getting on each other's nerves and fighting each other, that makes it really easy for me to just run in and take their flag without anyone noticing.
Seriously, everyone here is so quick to say "XBox sucks! GameCube rocks because it has a PPC processor!" You know what? Big f'n deal. They both run the Mac OS about as well as the other. And the XBox has a hard drive instead of one of those crappy memory cards. And the XBox has better graphics. Some people here make various stabs at Bungie/MS because of how long Halo was delayed, but I say who cares? It eventually came out, and it's an awesome game, so why does it matter?
Well said!
I agree.. I own a powerbook.. it doesn't mean I have to hate everything M$ makes. I love the xbox.. play it often. I don't think there is another console that can match it right now!