So, I say, you get yourself the superdrive 12 and spend the extra dosh on accessories, it's a slower, yes, but look at the advantages.
You save 800USD. That's a lot. Enough to give you p[lenty of options on those little extras. Careful shopping will get you a very nice DVI panel and a 512MB stick (for a total of 768 on the new 12). If you're really careful, you can get good DVI panel, a 120GB (fast) external drive and the RAM.
All the way around a better proposition than the 15, unless you absolutely NEED every last ounce of speed.
Get the 12. it now has DVI and USB2, which really should keep all the I/O bases covered for a good long time. It's cheaper, it's more mobile, and it let's you outfit a more complete "desk" for the same money as the 15" alone.
To me getting the 12 with the extra money thrown into peripherals and an external display is a neat way to save money AND go all out.
Two things to think about.
Apple's dual head is really top notch. I have mine set up to turn the external 17" CRT and 19" LCD that I use into the default display when I plug in. I then use the 12" as a secondary display. It's so flexible, and it remembers all your settings perfectly.
And, Expose (and fast user switching) should help you a lot when it comes to trying to get some work done on the 12" screen. I mostly type, so different expereince for me, but somehow I don't see you sitting down to do intense grapic work without a graphire/intuos tablet/pen in hand, in which case you wouldn't be just plopped down on the train anyway. For the tweaking and twidling you're likely to do when you're "in transit" a 12" screen is probably fine. I don't think you'll want to work on more than one project at a time while sitting on the train. Once you get to your desk, new game.
I've all but locked on to the 15" (due to my own personal leanings and some earlier posts here, particularly murbot, that just made a lot of sense for me).
I'm thinking that after the race today (shut up!) I might skootch down to Atlanta and take a look at this stuff firsthand and just get a feel for it/them.
No way I'm going to order anything sight unseen and I know that you simply don't get the true sense of a product from the staged, "beauty shots" on Apple's site (the Cube was larger in real life, the eMac was smaller, the iMac's dome is larger, etc.).
I've got nothing better to do this afternoon...
I'd love to spend about 10 minutes, uninterrupted (did I spell that right?), with this new 15". It would probably be the final clincher and nail in the coffin.
But Matsu does make good points.
But, in my heart, I've been wishing and waiting for this 15" for so long now. I think I'd ultimately regret going with the 12". Not that it's not a fine, kick-ass machine.
I want to treat myself for the first time in a while.
Although this is going to be a much better post then murbot's I can't see naming your computer ast3r3x...well or murbot really but I like to choose girls names. I would think you would do but it's up to you
I had the same dilemma as you only I already made up my mind to order within 30 min of the AppleStore coming back up. For graphics work, the 15" is how you do it. Pallets take up SO much room that they inundate (anyone remember 4am tuesday morning?) the screen. I don't know about you but even on my 17" with 1280x1024 I still press f twice followed by tab to get the full effect of my images in photoshop.
Notice the extra Space that the 15" provides would be almost perfect for a row of pallets giving you pretty much the full 12" screen for the actual pictures. (If you didn't get it yet the 15" is better)
Also think about what you gain from the high 15"..
?1.25GHz instead of 1GHz (not really a big deal)
?512MB 2700 instead of 256MB 2100
?I showed you the advantage of screen size
?Graphics card that blows away the competition of the 12"
?80GB Big Dog HD
?Super or Combo your choice doesn't matter. I went with the Combo because it's cheaper and I can always use my bro's A05
?Gigabit ethernet...you know you want it just to brag
?Built-in Bluetooth/Airport Extreme (this is a big plus)
?The sexiest keyboard in the planet! instead of the 2nd sexiest on the 12"
The 15" is not too big, so the question it comes down to is price and battery life. I don't know how much better then 12" is then the 15" on battery life but it's just if you want to step it up. Are you the kind of guy that went big with the good looking gal (15") or did you hang out with your good looking friend (12")?
and to finally prove the 15" is better I call on my 1st witness Ms. Goldie Locks...
"The 12" is too small
The 17" is too big
The 15" is jjjuuuussssttttt right"
Plus when the ladies see the 15" they know your not over compensating but that you are confident enough to not be using the 12"
Ok I've run out of constructive things to say and am just whistling in the wind (not sure what that means) so buy the 15" and be happy. For life is short but sweet for certain. </plagiarism>
First, thanks for starting this thread, pscates. I'm facing exactly the same dilemma. And you know how much I love subnotebooks and thus the 12-inch PowerBook.
Quote:
Originally posted by curiousuburb
port location:
12 - all on left
15 - balanced
For me, I actually prefer all the ports on one side. The "balanced" ports of the 15-inch will look like ass when you've got cables sticking out on both sides at your desk. With the 12-inch, you can neatly arrange all the cables on one side only. Or, even better, towards the back when you're connected to an external LCD and don't want to span.
Quote:
Originally posted by the cool gut
The 12inch is great because it's easy to carry around ... but seriously- when it's not plugged into a larger display it's USELESS for graphic work.
the cool gut makes a very legitimate point. The 1024x768 in my iBook is just fine for writing, surfing, e-mail, and coding in BBEdit. GraphicConverter is OK too. But now that I've started using Fireworks and Dreamweaver, more space would be useful as well.
murbot also makes great arguments for the 15-incher. The 15-inch will definitely better for on-site presentations, or even showing a friend a website or something you've designed. With the 15-inch you can live without an external LCD, probably not with the 12-inch. Personally, I'm going to buy a dual-input 17" LCD in the next few weeks for our Wintel box, which I could share/use with the 12-inch also. But what if my wife is using the Wintel box and I'm left with the PowerBook's resolution?
In the end, I think price is likely to be the decisive factor. With the 12-inch, you can get a SuperDrive for less than $2000. With the 15-inch, you have to shell out quite a bit more. OTOH, you'll probably want an external monitor with your 12-inch, which is even more expensive than the self-contained features of the 15-inch. As much as I love the 12-inch, pscates, I think you'll be happier with the 15-inch. Even though you'll have to save a bit longer to get started, you'll get better use out of it.
There won't be tons of cords coming out of either side though. Look at what ports are on each side:
Left - AC power, USB 2.0, modem, line-in, headphone jack. I bet you'll only use the AC power out of all these. Maybe the headphone jack for external speakers or headphones. Perhaps also the modem if you're an unlucky dialup user. But there's a USB port on the other side too.
The right side has all the ports you need. Firewire, video, USB, and ethernet. It really depends on what the user has to connect to it, but I don't think it's a big deal.
So, I say, you get yourself the superdrive 12 and spend the extra dosh on accessories, it's a slower, yes, but look at the advantages.
Matsu: I think you just sold me on the 12-inch.
If I were not cheap (and facing other expenses), I'd probably go for a 15-inch, along with a Sherpa to carry it. But since I'm on a budget and don't really need more performance than what the 12-inch offers, the little beauty will me make me perfectly happy. Anyway, I won't decide until I can see and touch both the Rev.B 12-inch and the new 15-inch side-by-side, in person.
Escher
PS: pscates, let us know how your trip to Atlanta went. (I'm sure you will. )
Well i FINALLY made up my mind and placed my order.
I got a 15 inch: 1ghz, combo drive, 256 RAM, 60 HD and backlit keyboard of course. I also ordered a 20 gig Ipod and apple care.
Thats not the most powerful configuration but I'm sure that its more than enough for my purposes.
The main reason i went this way instead of a fully loaded 12 inch is that i don't see myself comfortable using that small screen for the 2 or 3 years i plan to have this computer.
Thanks pscates for the RAM response, as soon as my bank account recovers i'm going to check them out.
Originally posted by ast3r3x Not sure what resolution your monitor is but if you have at least 1280 then take a look at this... http://home.ptd.net/~quadd/RealEstate.jpg
Notice the extra Space that the 15" provides would be almost perfect for a row of pallets giving you pretty much the full 12" screen for the actual pictures. (If you didn't get it yet the 15" is better)
I did you one better...
I did this yesterday afternoon, while mulling over this very thing (thinking about the 1024x768 of my iMac compared to how much more I'd get with 1280x854 on the 15" PowerBook).
Pretty self-explanatory, but the bright region is my current desktop, at 1024x768. The dimmed-out underlay represents the 1280x854.
Quite a nice extra chunk of work room for palettes, an iChat window, Konfabulator, etc. I think it drives the point home pretty well!
You know, I never made it down. It got to be kinda late in the day and I started thinking "am I REALLY in the mood for a 3-4 hour roadtrip?" (round trip total).
The answer was "no".
And I don't dare go during the week...Atlanta rush hour apparently goes from about 3pm to 8pm. A Dixie-fried L.A., if you will.
Tennessee man sets record for BTO options of Apple's new 15" PowerBook. After 743 possible configurations, the unnamed man quiped..."I'm tired and crabby, now fvck off".
Now THAT'S funny! And almost rings a bit too true...
Nah, any crabbiness was solely at Lemon's goofy suggestion above. I don't WANT a stupid tower, thank you. Runs counter to everything talked about in this thread.
I gotta say, as a long-time portable user, there's a lot in favor of the 15. Screen size (same at home and on the road), video RAM, port location, bus speed, L2 cache options -- those are some of the most important things.
You might also want to check out the keyboard "feel" of each, and see which one appears to be the most sturdy (if they're the same, this doesn't apply). That's one of the most important considerations in a laptop -- if you don't believe me as any former Duo user.
Comments
So, I say, you get yourself the superdrive 12 and spend the extra dosh on accessories, it's a slower, yes, but look at the advantages.
You save 800USD. That's a lot. Enough to give you p[lenty of options on those little extras. Careful shopping will get you a very nice DVI panel and a 512MB stick (for a total of 768 on the new 12). If you're really careful, you can get good DVI panel, a 120GB (fast) external drive and the RAM.
All the way around a better proposition than the 15, unless you absolutely NEED every last ounce of speed.
Get the 12. it now has DVI and USB2, which really should keep all the I/O bases covered for a good long time. It's cheaper, it's more mobile, and it let's you outfit a more complete "desk" for the same money as the 15" alone.
To me getting the 12 with the extra money thrown into peripherals and an external display is a neat way to save money AND go all out.
Two things to think about.
Apple's dual head is really top notch. I have mine set up to turn the external 17" CRT and 19" LCD that I use into the default display when I plug in. I then use the 12" as a secondary display. It's so flexible, and it remembers all your settings perfectly.
And, Expose (and fast user switching) should help you a lot when it comes to trying to get some work done on the 12" screen. I mostly type, so different expereince for me, but somehow I don't see you sitting down to do intense grapic work without a graphire/intuos tablet/pen in hand, in which case you wouldn't be just plopped down on the train anyway. For the tweaking and twidling you're likely to do when you're "in transit" a 12" screen is probably fine. I don't think you'll want to work on more than one project at a time while sitting on the train. Once you get to your desk, new game.
I think...
but that 15" is a nice machine too!
I'm thinking that after the race today (shut up!) I might skootch down to Atlanta and take a look at this stuff firsthand and just get a feel for it/them.
No way I'm going to order anything sight unseen and I know that you simply don't get the true sense of a product from the staged, "beauty shots" on Apple's site (the Cube was larger in real life, the eMac was smaller, the iMac's dome is larger, etc.).
I've got nothing better to do this afternoon...
I'd love to spend about 10 minutes, uninterrupted (did I spell that right?), with this new 15". It would probably be the final clincher and nail in the coffin.
But Matsu does make good points.
But, in my heart, I've been wishing and waiting for this 15" for so long now. I think I'd ultimately regret going with the 12". Not that it's not a fine, kick-ass machine.
I want to treat myself for the first time in a while.
I had the same dilemma as you only I already made up my mind to order within 30 min of the AppleStore coming back up. For graphics work, the 15" is how you do it. Pallets take up SO much room that they inundate (anyone remember 4am tuesday morning?) the screen. I don't know about you but even on my 17" with 1280x1024 I still press f twice followed by tab to get the full effect of my images in photoshop.
Not sure what resolution your monitor is but if you have at least 1280 then take a look at this... http://home.ptd.net/~quadd/RealEstate.jpg
Notice the extra Space that the 15" provides would be almost perfect for a row of pallets giving you pretty much the full 12" screen for the actual pictures. (If you didn't get it yet the 15" is better)
Also think about what you gain from the high 15"..
?1.25GHz instead of 1GHz (not really a big deal)
?512MB 2700 instead of 256MB 2100
?I showed you the advantage of screen size
?Graphics card that blows away the competition of the 12"
?80GB Big Dog HD
?Super or Combo your choice doesn't matter. I went with the Combo because it's cheaper and I can always use my bro's A05
?Gigabit ethernet...you know you want it just to brag
?Built-in Bluetooth/Airport Extreme (this is a big plus)
?The sexiest keyboard in the planet! instead of the 2nd sexiest on the 12"
The 15" is not too big, so the question it comes down to is price and battery life. I don't know how much better then 12" is then the 15" on battery life but it's just if you want to step it up. Are you the kind of guy that went big with the good looking gal (15") or did you hang out with your good looking friend (12")?
and to finally prove the 15" is better I call on my 1st witness Ms. Goldie Locks...
"The 12" is too small
The 17" is too big
The 15" is jjjuuuussssttttt right"
Plus when the ladies see the 15" they know your not over compensating but that you are confident enough to not be using the 12"
Ok I've run out of constructive things to say and am just whistling in the wind (not sure what that means) so buy the 15" and be happy. For life is short but sweet for certain. </plagiarism>
Originally posted by curiousuburb
port location:
12 - all on left
15 - balanced
For me, I actually prefer all the ports on one side. The "balanced" ports of the 15-inch will look like ass when you've got cables sticking out on both sides at your desk. With the 12-inch, you can neatly arrange all the cables on one side only. Or, even better, towards the back when you're connected to an external LCD and don't want to span.
Originally posted by the cool gut
The 12inch is great because it's easy to carry around ... but seriously- when it's not plugged into a larger display it's USELESS for graphic work.
the cool gut makes a very legitimate point. The 1024x768 in my iBook is just fine for writing, surfing, e-mail, and coding in BBEdit. GraphicConverter is OK too. But now that I've started using Fireworks and Dreamweaver, more space would be useful as well.
murbot also makes great arguments for the 15-incher. The 15-inch will definitely better for on-site presentations, or even showing a friend a website or something you've designed. With the 15-inch you can live without an external LCD, probably not with the 12-inch. Personally, I'm going to buy a dual-input 17" LCD in the next few weeks for our Wintel box, which I could share/use with the 12-inch also. But what if my wife is using the Wintel box and I'm left with the PowerBook's resolution?
In the end, I think price is likely to be the decisive factor. With the 12-inch, you can get a SuperDrive for less than $2000. With the 15-inch, you have to shell out quite a bit more. OTOH, you'll probably want an external monitor with your 12-inch, which is even more expensive than the self-contained features of the 15-inch. As much as I love the 12-inch, pscates, I think you'll be happier with the 15-inch. Even though you'll have to save a bit longer to get started, you'll get better use out of it.
Escher
Left - AC power, USB 2.0, modem, line-in, headphone jack. I bet you'll only use the AC power out of all these. Maybe the headphone jack for external speakers or headphones. Perhaps also the modem if you're an unlucky dialup user. But there's a USB port on the other side too.
The right side has all the ports you need. Firewire, video, USB, and ethernet. It really depends on what the user has to connect to it, but I don't think it's a big deal.
Originally posted by Matsu
I'm all about the bang for buck equation.
So, I say, you get yourself the superdrive 12 and spend the extra dosh on accessories, it's a slower, yes, but look at the advantages.
Matsu: I think you just sold me on the 12-inch.
If I were not cheap (and facing other expenses), I'd probably go for a 15-inch, along with a Sherpa to carry it.
Escher
PS: pscates, let us know how your trip to Atlanta went. (I'm sure you will.
Originally posted by curiousuburb
here's another couple of minor differences to consider
port location:
12 - all on left
15 - balanced
pc card slot.
mebbe not a big issue, but GPS cards or similar add-on might be usable in future.
get bluetooth mouse/stylus and your illustrator hands are freer
definitely ditto on the light-up keyboard as coolness bonus during client presentation in dark room
and the 64Mb VRAM as a Graphics bonus should make 15 a no-brainer...
superior Quartz Extreme on both displays
Yep. Also don't forget... better speakers (you said you use iTunes) and Gigabit Ethernet should you want it.
I got a 15 inch: 1ghz, combo drive, 256 RAM, 60 HD and backlit keyboard of course. I also ordered a 20 gig Ipod and apple care.
Thats not the most powerful configuration but I'm sure that its more than enough for my purposes.
The main reason i went this way instead of a fully loaded 12 inch is that i don't see myself comfortable using that small screen for the 2 or 3 years i plan to have this computer.
Thanks pscates for the RAM response, as soon as my bank account recovers i'm going to check them out.
Originally posted by ast3r3x Not sure what resolution your monitor is but if you have at least 1280 then take a look at this... http://home.ptd.net/~quadd/RealEstate.jpg
Notice the extra Space that the 15" provides would be almost perfect for a row of pallets giving you pretty much the full 12" screen for the actual pictures. (If you didn't get it yet the 15" is better)
I did you one better...
I did this yesterday afternoon, while mulling over this very thing (thinking about the 1024x768 of my iMac compared to how much more I'd get with 1280x854 on the 15" PowerBook).
Pretty self-explanatory, but the bright region is my current desktop, at 1024x768. The dimmed-out underlay represents the 1280x854.
Quite a nice extra chunk of work room for palettes, an iChat window, Konfabulator, etc. I think it drives the point home pretty well!
Originally posted by Escher
murbot also makes great arguments for the 15-incher.
Yes, directly from the keyboard of my 867MHz G4 12-incher.
Damn this thread for making me consider upgrading!!
heh heh
The answer was "no".
And I don't dare go during the week...Atlanta rush hour apparently goes from about 3pm to 8pm. A Dixie-fried L.A., if you will.
Maybe next weekend...
Oh well, hoping to hit the Vegas one when I'm there in February with my wife, and possibly one in SF if I hit MacWorld Expo with LoCash in January.
Originally posted by murbot
Damn this thread for making me consider upgrading!!
heh heh
You know it's time to do the obligatory upgrade murbot, just give in!
Get yourself a dual 2 gig PowerMac.
Lemon Bon Bon
Tennessee man sets record for BTO options of Apple's new 15" PowerBook. After 743 possible configurations, the unnamed man quiped..."I'm tired and crabby, now fvck off".
Now THAT'S funny! And almost rings a bit too true...
Nah, any crabbiness was solely at Lemon's goofy suggestion above. I don't WANT a stupid tower, thank you. Runs counter to everything talked about in this thread.
You might also want to check out the keyboard "feel" of each, and see which one appears to be the most sturdy (if they're the same, this doesn't apply). That's one of the most important considerations in a laptop -- if you don't believe me as any former Duo user.