iMac will die (?)

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
SJ said that portables are going to overcome desktop..

Pro users need desktop.. but consumers?



Do you think that shortly imac and emac will be dismessed?
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 22
    Quote:

    Originally posted by nevoz

    SJ said that portables are going to overcome desktop..

    Pro users need desktop.. but consumers?



    Do you think that shortly imac and emac will be dismessed?




    I would think that over time, the desktop will only have relevance for high-end applications...no in the short-term but in the long-term portables may overtake the need for an eMac/iMac.
  • Reply 2 of 22
    Apple do need to do something about the iMac/eMac lineup in my opinion... They should lower the iMac prices and remove the eMac. Makes more sense if you ask me... CRT is soooo 1990's!
  • Reply 3 of 22
    G3 900MHz should be faster than G4 500MHz.
  • Reply 4 of 22
    bartobarto Posts: 2,246member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by nevoz

    Do you think that shortly imac and emac will be dismessed?





    I know you've got a low post count, but usually I'd give you the benefit of the doubt. Not this time. Are you stoned? Seriously, maybe you live out in the woods, in a cabin, relying on home-delievery pizza to survive, but there are a whole lot of desktops in the world!



    From an ergonomics standpoint, laptops are a pain. From a price/performance standpoint, they arn't as good. If you need a computer that will generally stay in one place, desktops are a million times better than laptops.



    And EVEN IF consumers didn't need low-cost desktops, businesses and education still would. Last time I checked, having highly-portable, fragile computers isn't a great idea in schools or businesses.



    Barto
  • Reply 5 of 22
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    An external keyboard and mouse can be yours for 50 bucks. Ergos solved.



    Apple's laptops are a better price performance value than their AIO machines. For similar money they offer all of the features and expansion, similar performance, and they travel. The PB's even offer monitor spanning and DVI out, iMacs do not.
  • Reply 6 of 22
    bartobarto Posts: 2,246member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Matsu

    An external keyboard and mouse can be yours for 50 bucks. Ergos solved.



    BS. Laptop monitors are not adjustable like, for example, the iMac's is. They are so light it makes adjusting and connecting to them fiddly. There is no way, dispite your illusions, laptops will be as good as desktops from an ergonomics standpoint.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by Matsu

    For similar money they offer all of the features and expansion, similar performance, and they travel. The PB's even offer monitor spanning and DVI out, iMacs do not.



    For A$3300 I can get a 17" Widescreen iMac, 1.25GHz G4 Superdrive and an 80GB hard drive. The same price laptop will be 12" standard, 1GHz G4, combo drive and 40GB 4200RPM (yay, slow) hard drive.



    Portables are better value if you want a portable computer. How about the people who don't want a particular computer to be portable, hey?



    Barto
  • Reply 7 of 22
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Barto

    I know you've got a low post count, but usually I'd give you the benefit of the doubt. Not this time. Are you stoned? Seriously, maybe you live out in the woods, in a cabin, relying on home-delievery pizza to survive, but there are a whole lot of desktops in the world!



    From an ergonomics standpoint, laptops are a pain. From a price/performance standpoint, they arn't as good. If you need a computer that will generally stay in one place, desktops are a million times better than laptops.



    And EVEN IF consumers didn't need low-cost desktops, businesses and education still would. Last time I checked, having highly-portable, fragile computers isn't a great idea in schools or businesses.



    Barto




    Wow you are very clever... ok I have to admit... I have a low post count...

    And I live in a cabin too.. I love pizza (I am stoned about pizza)! But I have an internet connection and an ibook and I read something SJ said during an Apple Expo here in Europe far far away from Australia..

    SJ said portable are the 42% of Apple computer market.

    You say notebook aren't a good idea for school?

    mmmh go here

    http://www.apple.com/education/profiles/henrico1/

    And what do you think about wireless mouse... i think they fit best with notebook I don't need them with a desktop. And about the connection for monitors and the capability of the new powerbook of work closed.



    Pro users need desktop... I know: the G5 (and probably the eMac...) are going to sell for a lot more, but the iMac could be replaced by a 12"/15" powerbook, a 17" apple monitor, a wireless keyboard and wireless mouse.

    It's more expensive but you have a desktop and a notebook.



    nevoz
  • Reply 8 of 22
    bartobarto Posts: 2,246member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by nevoz

    It's more expensive but you have a desktop and a notebook.



    nevoz




    A lot of people don't want a desktop and a notebook. They just want a desktop, and people will buy whatever is the best value (generally) at a price point. For many people right now that is an eMac or an iMac 17". Sure laptops are good for schools BUT only in certain contexts (DV, student-owned). Desktop computer labs have been, are and will be very important. The same applies to businesses.



    Sure YOU might really want/need a notebook, but many people do not (or want a full desktop as a 2nd computer). Those people will look at A$3000 desktop vs A$4000 equivelent notebook, and buy the desktop. Apple, as a responsable & responsive public company, will continue to make those desktops.



    Barto
  • Reply 9 of 22
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    Holyshit is that COMPLETELY WRONG!!!



    iMacs and eMacs are the WORST values in the entire Apple range ATM, period, end of story, any Firkin way you wanna slice it.



    Lemme show you why:



    Firstly, A 12" PB that offers nearly all the performance and all of the connectivity and expansion of the 17" iMac costs fully 300 Canadian dollars less at edu than the iMac. With those 300 and a tad more you can get a equivalent display.



    At work, I have a 19" LCD hooked up to the PB. It's at the perfect height, and the PB sits beside it , also at the right height. the keyboard and mouose solve all ergo problems. You don't need to constantly adjust displays, you just need ot set them at the right height and distance and LEAVE THEM there. However, if you want to adjust, there are now plenty of LCD's that adjust for height and tilt (but no side to side swinging) just like the iMac. And there are plenty of nice cheap stands to prop your book to the right height too (and they let you store the keyboard underneath.



    A properly laid out desk negates any ergo concerns, and seriously limits the real world advantage of something like an iMac, which i still a stationarty computer.



    A desktop typically affords speed, price, and expansion advantages, but Apple's AIOs offer none of those benefits over their similarly priced laptops. Rather than compare LCD size, you should compare the relative packages. Ironically, you have more drive/display flexibility with the laptops than with the AIOs, and you can craft a better overall package at similar prices by choosing a laptop plus third party display. I can today make a package using the 1Ghz superdrive PB + 15" LCD that comes in at the same price as the 17" iMac but offers portability and MORE screen realestate.



    But that's not the end of the story, if you buy Apple towers the AIO's look even worse!



    I will use ONLY the canadian edu prices (since that's what I pay and I don't care to do the conversions, but the US ratios should remain largely the same)



    iMac 17" 2499

    PowerMac G5 1.6 2499

    PowerMac G4 1.25SP 1649



    If you have any sort of decent display, the G5 is a better deal than the iMac. It's a far more future proof investment, and should long be running new programs that gring the iMAC to a halt or simply won't run on the iMac.



    If you have any kind of decent display, then the G4 is an absolute steal in comparison to the iMac (though BOTH are still overpriced!) Still, even if you NEVER use the internal storage the display options and flexibility alone are well worth it.



    My 850 Canadian buys a cracking 17" display and extra RAM, and my choice of superdrive (I can get them as low as 179 Canadian (4X units)



    Any way you slice it, AIO's are the worst deal going, careful shopping will always yield a better system from within Apple's own line-up!



    Now if you just want a fashion statement, go ahead and lube up your arse so Apple can jam that cool chrome iMac arm right up in it, otherwise look elsewhere.



    I'm not saying the AIO has to die, but it's going to have to start getting a whole lot cheaper just to keep it's place in the mac platform (to say nothing of reaching the other 97.3%
  • Reply 10 of 22
    Barto: I couldn't agree more. My wife is a school teacher and needs a new Mac for home use as she is still limping by on an original 266 Mhz iMac G3. Also, our kids (ages 5 and 10) need a new unit as well. Wife has an eMac in her classroom on her desk at school. Last thing I need to get for home is a lap-top. I don't really need my young kids banging on one of those. Also, wife would probably want to bring a laptop to school all of the time. At the high shool she is at, that would just be begging to be stolen. Clear solution would be to get a refurbished eMac with superdive. In addition to the three of them having a sturdy unit to use at home, the price is relatively cheap right now and with some cheap third party memory, I'd be able to use it as a backup on occasion to do some video burning for my home side-business. In our case, we have no need at all for portability. Nor do I need another keyboard, monitor, or mouse to be plugged into a laptop. To each, his or her own. Can't we all just get along?
  • Reply 11 of 22
    A new high school just opened in our city this fall. Over the summer as the school was being prepared to open, on two separate occasions, thieves stole a bunch of iBooks from a computer lab. Must have been an inside job. However, if the units had been a bunch of old-school, overweight eMacs, it would have made the haul a much more difficult proposition for the thieves....
  • Reply 12 of 22
    I want a powerbook and a desktop... desktop for video and graphics, and powerbook for presentations and wi-fi... the only reason i wouldnt switch to a portable is b/c of the screen... i need the 20 inches, but i'm not gonna settle for a 17inch
  • Reply 13 of 22
    ok guys..

    a lot of you/us need a cheap emac or a pro powerful G5..

    It's right and for a long time there will be desktops and notebooks

    But I think all of you agree that iMac is very expensive..

    Matsu expleined us very well.

    IMac had a recent speed bump but are off the market!

    And if you look carefully to the new powerbook I think that Apple is going to prepare a new little revolution: a powerful notebook that could be even a powerful desktop. look at images in the site: the new powerbooks are near a monitor... and with the new keyboard and mouse you can close the mac, put under the monitor (is it possible? boh!) and use it as a real desktop..

    Is it possible? what do you think?



    nevoz
  • Reply 14 of 22
    rageousrageous Posts: 2,170member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by nevoz

    And if you look carefully to the new powerbook I think that Apple is going to prepare a new little revolution: a powerful notebook that could be even a powerful desktop.



    Um... yeah. This isn't a secret. Steve Jobs has been saying for some time that notebooks are becoming more viable desktop alternatives.
  • Reply 15 of 22
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Matsu

    An external keyboard and mouse can be yours for 50 bucks. Ergos solved.



    Apple's laptops are a better price performance value than their AIO machines. For similar money they offer all of the features and expansion, similar performance, and they travel. The PB's even offer monitor spanning and DVI out, iMacs do not.




    This doesn't support the case for eliminating the iMac, just increasing its specs while lowering the cost. Something that's easier to do for an iMac than it is for a notebook.
  • Reply 16 of 22
    Matsu justifiably stomps on Apple's AIO strategy. Overpriced and underspecced. Red faces all round for the pants last iMac2 'upgrade'. Yeesh.



    Gulf. That's how I'd describe it and being a consumer machine. Looks gorgeous. Dying for a decent processor and a cheaper price and optional high end graphics if you want. Heck, if those cheap PC cubes can manage it...why can't the overpriced iMac? The audatious pitch of the iMac2 just makes me feel like I've got a wasp trapped down my pants.



    Apple's Powerbooks/laptops take some beating on price performance! They stomp all over the desktop equivalents? Why?



    I don't know. I'm lost to explain it. £795 for an entry iBook with LCD screen. Yet the iMac 2 entry price is stuck at the £999 point. Why? I dunno. G4's must be dirt cheap. The 1 gig processor has been doing the rounds for how long now? Only Apple could get away with including that kind of tat in any desktop.



    Me? I prefer desktops. But I'm hearing Matsu in a big way. But I still like desktops. I'm using my wife's iBook alot of late. For everything from flash to PS7. It's okay. I like it more than my 'sobig' pc which is currently 'dead'. But I think I like the G5 plus Apple Cinema display I saw the other day a whole lot more. In fact, if the iMac had dual processors and a 20 inch display and an Ati 9800 Pro? I'd prob' buy that as it too looks gorgeous.



    Hmmm. I just don't like laptops. I admire the beauty of the 17inch. But the screen is 'down there'. The keyboard aint right. I don't like the trackpad thing (arthritus pending...) and I hate the hard drives...slow. In fact. I don't really like the screen in the iBook, low res and...fuzzy. It's not an advancement over crt from where I'm sitting. But an Apple display might be. The 20 inch LCD variety...



    Given Jobs comments about a G5 Powerbook, it looks like Matsu might be right afterall about a G5 iMac following a Powerbook late 2004 if we're lucky.



    Oh dear. Puffing and wheezing with old 1.25 gig G4s. What's next? A 1.33? Then a, gasp, 1.42?



    Old. Old. Old.



    The top end G5 tower shines. The Powerbooks shine. The ibooks. Bang for buck? The rest is pants. The eMacs are pants. The iMac spec is pants.



    The software is incredible.



    Lemon Bon Bon
  • Reply 17 of 22
    Quote:

    Originally posted by nevoz

    SJ said that portables are going to overcome desktop..

    Pro users need desktop.. but consumers?



    Do you think that shortly imac and emac will be dismessed?




    I've heard Steve Jobs talk about market share for laptops growing, and that for many people a laptop is becoming an ideal choice for a one-and-only system. I don't believe I've ever heard him say that laptops would "overcome" desktop computers, unless you perhaps by "overcome" you only mean something like "sell more units" rather than "defeat, destroy, eliminate".



    If you can provide a reliable in-context quote, I'd be interested to hear that. It would be sort of like Steve Jobs announcing "You, know, half of our product line really is pointless and irrelevant".



    People here on AI might argue about the value of eMacs and iMacs (and, boy, do they!), but no matter how clever and incisive anyone's evaluation of these computers might be, none of these evaluations has the power, even if utterly true, of causing massive changes in consumer behavior. For the foreseeable future, a lot of people are going to want a desktop computer -- including iMacs and eMacs -- more than they want a laptop, for whatever personal reasons they might have for feeling that way.



    Part of the value of the eMac and iMac is the personal, difficult-to-quantify values of style and form factor. Some people just like the way an eMac or iMac looks. Some people just like all-in-one designs. Even if a laptop could do everything some consumers might want that a desktop computer can do, those consumers could very well shy away from a laptop because in their minds a laptop is for portable use, and if they don't see any need to carry their computers around, they won't buy a laptop.



    I certainly wouldn't get a laptop for my technology-challenged father. He'd never carry it anywhere and he'd be uncomfortable using the built-in keyboard or trackpad. If a laptop is never, ever going to be used on the go, and you have to plug in an external keyboard and mouse, and possible an external display, why bother?



    Also, while the iMac and eMac may not offer much power or price advantage over Apple's current portables, I think that's more of a temporary side effect of the ongoing death throes of the G4. Going into the future, and as a general rule, desktop computers, having access to more electrical power and better cooling, will generally have more computing power than laptops. Also, simply because of having to engineer to a smaller form factor, laptops will generally be more expensive for the same level of features found in a desktop.



    More for style and form factor reasons now, and more for price/power reasons in the future, I see the eMac and iMac (or variations on those themes) being viable parts of Apple's product line for at least the next few years.
  • Reply 18 of 22
    Quote:

    Originally posted by shetline

    I've heard Steve Jobs talk about market share for laptops growing, and that for many people a laptop is becoming an ideal choice for a one-and-only system. I don't believe I've ever heard him say that laptops would "overcome" desktop computers, unless you perhaps by "overcome" you only mean something like "sell more units" rather than "defeat, destroy, eliminate".







    http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/expo03/



    Ok you are right.. SJ said that "[Apple is] ahead in the [...] transition to portables"... The aim with this new PBs is 1:1 notebook:desktop.

    I mean that notebook will sell more units and that there will be always a pro machine and, after your posts, now I think that even a cheap mac has a big market.



    Desktop are half the production so, now, they are part of the business.

    I put a question about future hardware (a near future?.. I don't know).

    Will portables be more appealing then a desktop? And transition, now is 1:1 but there will be a 2:1 in the next 2/3 years? Is SJ aiming a total transition?

    SJ told about "transition" from desktop to notebooks.. not a simple growing of portable market... A lot of people i know is going to buy a notebook as a first and only machine.. and they are more and more...

    And why the new iMac is so weak? It is new... the next revision will be probably the next year.



    But probably is only a cycle.. next iMac will be G5



    nevoz
  • Reply 19 of 22
    I think over the next couple of years you will see portables continue to errode marketshare from the iMac. However, just about any laptop part is more expensive than the equivalent desktop part. Apple won't completely stop making iMacs until you start seeing price parity beween desktop and laptop parts.
  • Reply 20 of 22
    yevgenyyevgeny Posts: 1,148member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Matsu

    Holyshit is that COMPLETELY WRONG!!!



    iMacs and eMacs are the WORST values in the entire Apple range ATM, period, end of story, any Firkin way you wanna slice it.




    I completely agree. The iMac is visually stunning, but totally lacking when it comes to the price/performance ratio. My theory is that the iMac and PB's are stuck in the G4 hell that desktops were in six months ago. I wish that Apple would drop their prices $100 to $200 to make these machines worthwhile because for right now, it is all about the G5 and the portables. At least the iBook understands that cheap (cost) is a good thing.
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