Powerlogix in jeopardy?
What's the current outlook on existing upgrade products from Powerlogix? Is it a risky proposition to do business with them these days or no worries?
I have a G3 upgrade sitting here untouched in its package. I have been fretting over a possible premise that they may be shipping DOA processors from a bad production batch they have received (mind you, that is pure speculation, so don't take that as a rumor to spread). So I am conflicted over cracking open the box and installing it, or just sending it back untouched.
Anybody have an opinion on the matter? Anybody care to share good or bad experiences they have had with Powerlogix?
I have a G3 upgrade sitting here untouched in its package. I have been fretting over a possible premise that they may be shipping DOA processors from a bad production batch they have received (mind you, that is pure speculation, so don't take that as a rumor to spread). So I am conflicted over cracking open the box and installing it, or just sending it back untouched.
Anybody have an opinion on the matter? Anybody care to share good or bad experiences they have had with Powerlogix?
Comments
I think they've gotten better because a friend of mine got a G3 upgrade for a PowerMac 9600 and it worked fine. Then he got a faster G4/700 upgrade from Sonnet, but it caused lots of problems.
Hence my apprehension with this 2nd part...
On a side note I just installed a 1.2GHz G4 upgrade from powerlogix in one of my computers and it runs like a charm.
They re-installed the upgraded processor card, turned on the computer, and nothing happened. It turned out they (the consumers, not Powerlogix) just din't seat the processor card correctly when they re-installed it.
I'm not saying that was your situation, but sometimes when we deal with tricky things like processor upgrades, we get anxious/nervous and cry foul when it's actually something simple to fix.
Anyway, I haven't heard about DOA processors from Powerlogix ... but I have heard of rediculous delays like several weeks to more than a month (they've supposedly improved the turn-around time this year ... as long as you live in the US). I've also heard some people complain about increased heat from new processors (particularly PowerBooks) but I think that's to be expected with much faster processors in notebooks that weren't originally designed to use them.
I think Powerlogix will be around for a while ... if they continue to acquire new processors when they become available ... and if they concentrate on customer service and speedy delivery.
Originally posted by Randycat99
I should elaborate that the one in my possession right now is the 2nd part I have received from them (functional status still as yet unknown). The 1st part was DOA, and was sent back. I had followed the installation instructions to a T. This is NOT a case where I saw it partially boot up, then it crashes, and never boots again. It was just plain dead- no boot up, not even the monitor got to activating. The motherboard and HD's did power-up, and progress promptly ceases at that point. So that seems like a processor that was just plain dead from the start, AFAIC. After, reinstalling the original CPU, everything is perfectly operational, as was before this episode.
Hence my apprehension with this 2nd part...
Originally posted by Mount_my_floppy
What machine are you installing this in? If the processor is not seated correctly the same thing you just described could happen. Scared the hell out of me when it happened to me.
On a side note I just installed a 1.2GHz G4 upgrade from powerlogix in one of my computers and it runs like a charm.
WOW! You must have replied just as I was writing my long-winded response. Of course, you said it much faster.
The machine in question is a BW G3. The interface is a ZIF slot. Believe me, it was as seated as seated can be. All 4 sides were "balls deep" so to speak. The orientation was correct, as it is indexed to fit in only one way. I don't know what else to say.
So strange things do happen.
Everybody, please weigh-in!
Should I just forget about my worries and just install the darn thing? (Think carefully about that before you answer, though. This isn't a call for some inspirational rally.)
It was seated properly - I narrowed it down to only the processor upgrade that was malfunctioning. The computer wouldn't boot, all that happened was that it got power so the lights and drives and fans turned on.
On the other hand, a friend of mine got a G3 daughtercard with no problems whatsoever from them. No returns, no calls, just installed and it worked.
Anyway, I am somewhat unhappy with both Sonnet and PowerLogix I guess... it seems they're too likely to send out DOA cards and eventually, you'll be blamed for the defects. It makes more sense to just buy a new computer sometimes.
Originally posted by Randycat99
Here's the big moneyshot question, then. The root of my concern is that allegedly, they may send out a DOA CPU. You try it, it doesn't work, so they allow you to return it in exchange for another part. When you get the 2nd part, it turns out to be DOA, as well. So you get them to take it back, again. This time they say the part appears to have been damaged (by you). Therefore you are ineligible for exchange (w/o repair fee levied) or refund. So BOOM, you lose $250/500/1000/etc. Is this the perfect racket, or am I being overly paranoid with a theory that does not appear to be supported by any sort of widespread, actual cases wrt Powerlogix?
Everybody, please weigh-in!
Should I just forget about my worries and just install the darn thing?
Just install the darn thing already!!!
I think it's safe to say you're being a little paranoid. Processor upgrades are complex pieces of electronics and the computers they go in are even more complex. The more complex something is, the more likelihood that "occasionally" something will go wrong.
Look at the digital camera industry. If you go to digital camera forums like www.dpreview.com, you'll find MANY people who purchased digital cameras that we broken upon delivery, or that broke within a few days or weeks of purchase. Does this mean digital cameras are just a huge scam? NO! Those same people either got replacement cameras or repairs, or they purchased a different model. The more complex something is, the more there is that can go wrong.
Of the MANY Powerlogix customers I've met in online forums, almost all of them have been VERY happy with their upgrades. It's one of the reasons I will be purchasing an upgrade for my Pismo next year. These are the only complaints about Powerlogix that I've heard of more than once from more than one source:
1) Prior to this year, they had long delays ... particularly for overseas customers. Now, almost everybody receives their upgrade within the promised time frame ... unless they live overseas. If there is a delay, it's usually because Powerlogix had trouble obtaining sufficient quantities of the chips they needed ... and that usually only happens with their newest products.
2) Some people have complained about upgrades that didn't work at all, but as I said before, all of the others I've met online just didn't seat their processors correctly.
3) Some people (mostly just purchasers of PowerBook upgrades) complain that the upgrades run very hot compared to the old processors. But that's to be expected when you stick a faster (hotter) processor into a notebook that wasn't originally designed to use (or cool) that processor. Heck, the first G4 PowerBook prototypes literally EXPLODED (well ... burnt up and melted down at least) when Apple tried to put the G4 in the PowerBook.
This thread reminds me of something my grandfather used to say, "If you look for something bad, you'll always find it ... even if it isn't there."
In short, if you keep trying to find a reason to say "Powerlogix sucks and is a huge scam," then you'll find a reason to say it ... even if 98 percent of the evidence says "Powerlogix is a great company with great products."
Originally posted by RussS
Well a couple years back I bought an XLR8 G4 500 for my B&W and believe it or not I had to reseat it in the Zif socket a half a dozen times before it would boot.
So strange things do happen.
Reseat 6 times before it works? Man, what's that about? I mean, how many times do you go before you are satisfied that it just won't work? I would have given up by at least 3x, though I must have reseated my part around 3-4x as I was trying different stuff each time, per suggestions from tech support.
For the people who have cited seating issues so far, did your ZIF part just drop right in loosely, or did it seem just a bit snug pushing it into place? I know, ZIF should mean zero-insertion force, right?
Originally posted by Randycat99
For the people who have cited seating issues so far, did your ZIF part just drop right in loosely, or did it seem just a bit snug pushing it into place? I know, ZIF should mean zero-insertion force, right?
It dropped right in. Not tight. Not loose. About what you'd expect.
If I remember XLR8 did recommend reseating if it did not work and I was ready to give up after the 6th try. But it booted and has worked great ever since.
Anyways, after initial frustration and panic had subsided, I decided to hit the Cuda button again (while the motherboard was still powered-up, but still in a dark screen stupor). Wouldja look at that, it's booting up!!! IT'S BOOTING UP!!! Hooray! (Mind you, this same technique did not work for the first processor, so I'm still convinced it was just a plain dead chip.)
I still had to do some further adjustments (suggested by tech support previously) to get a completely successful boot-up, but all seems to be well. I got my 900 MHz G3, it seems. A new level of snappiness is apparent. Still doing some tests to investigate further. Switching between applications is more snappy. Quicktime movies pop open in a blink now. WMV movies actually play fairly smoothly now w/o big skips in video (as before). VPC performance seems to have made leaps and bounds (synthetic benchmarks suggest I am up around the performance of a 733 Mhz Celeron, up from the previous 60-100 Mhz PII standings). Norton Sys Info indicates considerable performance boosts (will elaborate further).
My screensaver fps does not seem to have gone much, if at all. So I'm guessing that is suggesting I was more ATI Rage 128 limited than CPU limited. No big deal. The one screensaver that was quite evidently CPU bound was a very intensive fractals one, which did see a considerable improvement. It went from .5 fps to 2.25 fps. That's a pretty nice jump in performance! The only one thing of concern is the screensaver that pans, zooms, and fades desktop pictures, which seemed to crash the computer in the preview window. We'll see if that was coincidence or if there is really an issue there soon...
As has been suggested earlier, yes, the heatsink does get pretty warm. Whereas the original CPU left the heatsink as remotely warm (as in, is this thing even on?), the new one leaves a heatsink that is feverishly warm (as in, I'm almost afraid to keep my fingertips on it). I guess if it works, it works, though. "Running hot" is relative. As long as it is still running comfortably (within nominal tolerances)...
Overall, I'm quite pleased. This ole BW dog has now got some legs for a new life! I'll post more if any other interesting things come up.
I'm glad things seem to be going OK. Your situation reminds me of how I would always get strange error messages on my PowerBook whenever I upgraded the RAM until I pressed the PRAM reset.
Yep, like I said, computers are complicated hardware ... and there are a ton of things that can cause problems. Here's to your new upgrade and my best wishes that nothing else goes wrong. Cheers!
I do attribute it to you guys for dispelling the notion that Powerlogix had gone rogue, enough for me to dare opening the package to install the part.
Originally posted by Randycat99
Thanks!
I do attribute it to you guys for dispelling the notion that Powerlogix had gone rogue, enough for me to dare opening the package to install the part.
Randy,
It's been a while since you last reported on your upgrade. Is it still performing well?
I'm debating whether I'm finally going to get the 900MHz G3 upgrade for my PowerBook or wait until Powerlogix releases the 1.1GHz G3 (PowerPC 750GX) upgrade shortly after Apple announces the new 1.1GHz iBook later this year. (I've been holding off because of the dream of upgrading to the GHz realm, but with Panther coming out this month I don't know how much lonoger I can wait to upgrade my Pismo.
Anyway, do you feel like the 900MHz is giving you enough power? If not, I was told by someone with the 900MHz upgrade that you can easily overclock it to 950MHz without any problems (at least on the PowerBook ... so I assume you can do it on your B&W).
Originally posted by rustedborg
Randy,
It's been a while since you last reported on your upgrade. Is it still performing well?
Yes, it is up and running. The only remaining issues seem to be an increase in instability on select few applications. The common factor seems to have to do with things that load up on the graphics (though not all things graphic), which lead to a complete lockup (no force quit) and sometimes mention of a "system bus error". Other than that, the thing runs quite satisfactorily.
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I'm debating whether I'm finally going to get the 900MHz G3 upgrade for my PowerBook or wait until Powerlogix releases the 1.1GHz G3 (PowerPC 750GX) upgrade shortly after Apple announces the new 1.1GHz iBook later this year. (I've been holding off because of the dream of upgrading to the GHz realm, but with Panther coming out this month I don't know how much lonoger I can wait to upgrade my Pismo.
I wouldn't wait. 1.1 isn't really going to show that much more performance than .9. I think the GX might have even more L2 cache, but I still don't think that will yield any substantial differences for the wait. Then there's the issue that you'll have to wait further for PL to get their batch of GX chips. Then you also don't want to be one of the early adopters when they are still flushing out the bad chips from their inventory... It's a lotta a waiting, and for what? 200 Mhz? Well, that's my 2 cts.
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Anyway, do you feel like the 900MHz is giving you enough power?
I kind of have a unique situation. I didn't upgrade because I really needed or could use the power based on the things I use my computer for. Truth be told, the original 350 MHz has hung in there quite well, even to this day. There were just a few moments where it seemed a bit doggy, so I figured the latest versions of the software I use and the sheer number of them open at once was getting to overwhelm my "dated" 350 MHz G3. Plus, I figured a healthly dollop of Mhz would ensure my computer would last a great deal longer for my uses, whereas these days most people wouldn't even consider working on an "antiquated" BW G3 if they didn't have to.
So now I have the 900 with half a meg of full-speed cache, and I feel like my computer is ready to take on the world once again. Switching between "heavy" applications is more snappy. Loading up 9 webpages simultaneously in Netscape seems to be much less of a burden while you do other things at the same time. I can even run a long Stuffit job in the background and continue to do other things on my computer w/o severe responsivity lags. I am assured that there are plenty of CPU resources available even if the IDE is drawing a load during high HD use conditions. At the very least, SETI that completes in around 10 hrs instead of 20+ hrs just seems cooler.
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If not, I was told by someone with the 900MHz upgrade that you can easily overclock it to 950MHz without any problems (at least on the PowerBook ... so I assume you can do it on your B&W).
Yes, but there may be a catch to this. The clocking is all software controlled to give these benefits. However, if it won't boot up using the default hardware settings (such as was the case for me), then you have to select a lower speed in hardware and then let the software push it back to the target clock speed after it boots up. So maybe that could take-up the headroom for software to push to even higher clock settings (for overclocking, as an example). ...or maybe there just won't be any software settings, available in the CPU director app that PL provides you, to go higher unless they release their app with higher settings. You can downclock, but you can't go any higher than the rated clock of the CPU. The highest available setting shown in my setup is 900, for instance, but you can go all the way down to 200, if you really wanted. I'm not exactly sure how all this works, so these are just my observations so far. There sure doesn't seem like a way to overclock for me, at this juncture (not that I was looking forward to doing that).
My only other reservations over recommending these sort of upgrades is woe be to he who encounters any difficulty getting their new upgrade to work. Getting an email, let alone a phone call, into PL tech support can be a real bear, as they seem waaaaaay overburdened (judging from the response times, bounced-back email, and denied voicemail due to mailbox full). This may be alike for CPU upgrade vendors across the board (being such small outfits)- I don't know. All I do know is that PL seems to be lacking in this area, and not particularly apologetic about it. This is a real shame, as it can lead to a real sour aftertaste if you have made a purchase and cannot even get someone to help you out within a reasonable time. Makes you think, "Did I just get ripped off? All I'm getting here is 'static'." I'm just glad my own situation turned out good, but I can fully imagine other scenarios that are not so good. The tech support situation is swaying that perilously as to suggest a situation could easily go pretty good or very bad. If you do encounter installation difficulty, you may anticipate up to 3 weeks of downtime just to get enough back-and-forth communication to get to the bottom of a situation. Naturally, you could just reinstall your old processor to get up and running again in the meantime, but really, it took me 3 weeks to get this $hit straightened out while a not so trivial chunk of money hung in the balance.
Yes, it does seem that (based on customer feedback on various Apple forums) Powerlogix needs to do a better job with customer support. Most people who get their upgrades running absolutely LOVE the upgrades, but there are quite a few people who have had various problems (whether it is as simple as reseating the processor card, reseting the PRAM, or getting a replacement for a DOA chip) and most of them say that it isn't very easy to get help from Powerlogix.
In fact, there are a couple of companies (powerbookmedic.com being the biggest) that sell Powerlogix upgrades at a higher price ... the benefit being that you get their customer support instead of having to deal with Powerlogix and an extended warranty.
As for overclocking the 900MHz upgrade, try holding down the option (alt) key while changing the processor speed. I've read reports from 3 different Powerlogix 900MHz upgrade customers that they were able to overclock their chips to 950MHz using the "hold option" trick.
As you said, if you don't really need the speed, there's no point, but I just thought I'd mention it.
I think I'm going to wait until I install Panther to see if I need to upgrade my 500MHz G3 to the 900MHz G3. If Panther runs fine and I don't have any more of a slowdown in Photoshop, I'll probably wait until the new 1.1GHz upgrade is announced and buy the 900MHz upgrade at a discounted price.
If Panther runs too slow on my computer, I'll have to invest in the 900MHz upgrade sooner rather than later.
Now I just have to decide if I want to work with Powerlogix directly, or go through a 3rd-party store like powerbookmedic.com so that I can get trouble-free customer service.