I agree with you on this to an extent...it's evident from many of the posts on online forums and user groups that a lot of people find out a little bit about one piece of hardware / software and tell everyone that its the only thing to use (ProTools being probably the biggest example of this, closely followed by the Triton and the MPC)...but there are often valid reasons for certain equipment being given the attention it receives.
A lot of burgeoning hip-hop producers have favored MPCs over the last fifteen years because hip-hop is largely based on samples and beats and MPCs are affordable, easy to use and handle sampling and beats pretty well. The layout of the pads lends itself to the composition of breakbeats (just as the layout of the TR-909 lends itself to building the kind of linear, pounding beats that Derrick May or Juan Atkins were using in the late 80s) and I reckon its pretty fair to say that the MPC series, particularly the 60 and the 3000, have done a lot to shape the sound of hip-hop over the years. The fact that its functions can be replicated with software and a MIDI controller doesn't necessarily make it obsolete (even if Roger Linn prefers to use Logic these days).
So, while saying that you can only make hip-hop tracks using an MPC is obviously inaccurate - saying that the MPC is extremely close to the heart of hip-hop production is valid. Just because someone wants to use the same equipment as a producer that he or she appreciates, doesn't mean that only derivative work will be produced. Scott Herren (Prefuse 73) cites Pete Rock's use of the MPC and SP-1200 as an inspiration, but IMO Herren has taken things to a new level with some of his recent work.
I actually agree with everything here.
It's funny you bring up Prefuse, because he just did some work with the person I mentioned above who only uses the su700. This particular individual is an interesting case study, because he does such amazing work on such a limited platform. He, of course, is the extreme exception to the rule. In fact, part of me feels somewhat bad for him, because he's very much intimidated by software DAWs even though he's been interested for years and actually has a copy of logic. It's all the more difficult for him to switch platforms since he has been very successful and doesn't want to screw it up by taking a huge risk and trying something new. That's why it's important for someone like Tigerwoods99 to start off with a decent set-up while nothing is expected of him. The landscape has changed dramatically over the last few years, so looking at what older people use isn't really the best method. This impulse to conform is also probably part of the reason that most hip-hop production hasn't been as innovative as it could be.
You mentioned getting that drum pad but the problem with doing that is...I still dont have any sounds do I? Some software may be pretty good...but I feel so much more comfortable using hardware...Ive had experience with various programs as well as doing stuff on a equipment and would feel best with an MPC or the Yamaha. Software just isnt cutting it for me right now...no matter how hard I try. Reason is a great program...but you just cant get that sound, and a lot of say thats one of the best for hip hop. I think Im gonna pull the trigger soon on the RS7000, because ive heard good things about it, seems to be proven, and looks like the closest thing I can get to having one tool that does everything for me. But of course I am always open to suggestion and other opinions...but getting closer and closer to getting some hardware. Are there really any big time guys in the hip hop world that are totally PC production based?
It's funny you bring up Prefuse, because he just did some work with the person I mentioned above who only uses the su700...
Yeah, Prefuse 73 is kind of a unique case...although Shadow manages to do some amazing work with just an MPC as well. I woudln't argue that this means that just an MPC (or SU700 or ASRx) will be right for everyone...I personally use whatever I can get may hands on be it hardware or software (including Logic, although I only have access to Logic 5 right now), but the MPC2000 just happens to be what I turn to first...
Quote:
Originally posted by TigerWoods99
You mentioned getting that drum pad but the problem with doing that is...I still dont have any sounds do I?
It's the same with the MPC though...you get the sounds you need from sampling other sound sources (be it your record collection, a hardware or software synth, a $20 sample CD or some crazy guy shouting at people on the subway). That's why I figured the RS7000 might be closer to what you want from a single piece of hardware, as it does have a bunch of presets to get you started. Chances are though, you'll get bored of the presets after a while and start using sounds from other sources.
Quote:
Are there really any big time guys in the hip hop world that are totally PC production based?
There's bound to be a few. All of them use software for at least half of what they do (anytime you want to record vocals in a studio you're going to end up using ProTools at some stage). But remember that these guys can also afford to spend insane amounts of money on equipment...
Man, I am sooooooooo lost now in terms of what to get...and its really important I make a good decision if I shell out the cash.
I just checked out the su700 you mentioned...plus theres also a 200. How does this compare with the RS700? How old is this model? Also...I heard that Madlib uses a Boss/Roland SP-303 for almost everything he does...and they are like $250. Or a keyboard?
I dont knkow what to do Im flippin out here cuz I wanna get this gear very soon.
Yeah, Prefuse 73 is kind of a unique case...although Shadow manages to do some amazing work with just an MPC as well. I woudln't argue that this means that just an MPC (or SU700 or ASRx) will be right for everyone...I personally use whatever I can get may hands on be it hardware or software (including Logic, although I only have access to Logic 5 right now), but the MPC2000 just happens to be what I turn to first...
You know, I have two big problems with software sequencers: too many options and too much emphasis on visual arrangement. Sometimes it's really refreshing to make sounds without all the 1280x854 graphical junk going on. It can have far too much influence on how the songs are structured. It can make me really lazy with how I put things together.
I heard that Madlib uses a Boss/Roland SP-303 for almost everything he does...and they are like $250.
This is exactly why I don't think it's a good idea to get too hung up on what other folks use.
Quote:
Originally posted by TigerWoods99
I dont knkow what to do Im flippin out here cuz I wanna get this gear very soon.
The rs-7000 looks really nice.
The problem a lot of folks seem to have is the lack of effects on the mpc, whereas the yamahas do. That makes the yamahas much better for an all-in-one solution.
But what do I know? I haven't really looked at hardware samplers/sequencers for about 4 or 5 years.
Man, I am sooooooooo lost now in terms of what to get...and its really important I make a good decision if I shell out the cash.
I just checked out the su700 you mentioned...plus theres also a 200. How does this compare with the RS700? How old is this model? Also...I heard that Madlib uses a Boss/Roland SP-303 for almost everything he does...and they are like $250. Or a keyboard?
I dont knkow what to do Im flippin out here cuz I wanna get this gear very soon.
Weird...I was just talking about Madlib (using the SP-303) with a friend of mine about ten minutes ago. The SP-303 is really limited compared any of the other samplers you list...the Dr. Sample line is primarily intended for use in live situations (a DJ or guitarist that wants to introduce loops into a set)...the fact that Madlib uses it for production is a testament to what a talented producer can do with limited equipment.
If its down to the SU700 and the RS7000 for you, I'd say get the RS7000. The SU700 is a great sampler, but the RS7000 is closer to the all-in-one box that you seem to want.
Is there a huge difference between Cubase SX & SL? I think Im gonna go with with Cubase over say Logic cause Ive always liked the older versions and there are tons of VST plugins out there. I might get Reason 2.5, have 2.0 right now but other than the redrum its not what Im lookin for...but Ive seen some of the new features/effects in 2.5 and they seem better suited to me.
Then I will purchase a Yamaha RS7000 for my hardware at the moment, and later get a decent keyboard to replace my old one.
Comments
Originally posted by kneelbeforezod
I agree with you on this to an extent...it's evident from many of the posts on online forums and user groups that a lot of people find out a little bit about one piece of hardware / software and tell everyone that its the only thing to use (ProTools being probably the biggest example of this, closely followed by the Triton and the MPC)...but there are often valid reasons for certain equipment being given the attention it receives.
A lot of burgeoning hip-hop producers have favored MPCs over the last fifteen years because hip-hop is largely based on samples and beats and MPCs are affordable, easy to use and handle sampling and beats pretty well. The layout of the pads lends itself to the composition of breakbeats (just as the layout of the TR-909 lends itself to building the kind of linear, pounding beats that Derrick May or Juan Atkins were using in the late 80s) and I reckon its pretty fair to say that the MPC series, particularly the 60 and the 3000, have done a lot to shape the sound of hip-hop over the years. The fact that its functions can be replicated with software and a MIDI controller doesn't necessarily make it obsolete (even if Roger Linn prefers to use Logic these days).
So, while saying that you can only make hip-hop tracks using an MPC is obviously inaccurate - saying that the MPC is extremely close to the heart of hip-hop production is valid. Just because someone wants to use the same equipment as a producer that he or she appreciates, doesn't mean that only derivative work will be produced. Scott Herren (Prefuse 73) cites Pete Rock's use of the MPC and SP-1200 as an inspiration, but IMO Herren has taken things to a new level with some of his recent work.
I actually agree with everything here.
It's funny you bring up Prefuse, because he just did some work with the person I mentioned above who only uses the su700. This particular individual is an interesting case study, because he does such amazing work on such a limited platform. He, of course, is the extreme exception to the rule. In fact, part of me feels somewhat bad for him, because he's very much intimidated by software DAWs even though he's been interested for years and actually has a copy of logic. It's all the more difficult for him to switch platforms since he has been very successful and doesn't want to screw it up by taking a huge risk and trying something new. That's why it's important for someone like Tigerwoods99 to start off with a decent set-up while nothing is expected of him. The landscape has changed dramatically over the last few years, so looking at what older people use isn't really the best method. This impulse to conform is also probably part of the reason that most hip-hop production hasn't been as innovative as it could be.
Originally posted by TigerWoods99
You mentioned getting that drum pad but the problem with doing that is...I still dont have any sounds do I?
Does that mpc come with an akai sample cd?
Originally posted by giant
It's funny you bring up Prefuse, because he just did some work with the person I mentioned above who only uses the su700...
Yeah, Prefuse 73 is kind of a unique case...although Shadow manages to do some amazing work with just an MPC as well. I woudln't argue that this means that just an MPC (or SU700 or ASRx) will be right for everyone...I personally use whatever I can get may hands on be it hardware or software (including Logic, although I only have access to Logic 5 right now), but the MPC2000 just happens to be what I turn to first...
Originally posted by TigerWoods99
You mentioned getting that drum pad but the problem with doing that is...I still dont have any sounds do I?
It's the same with the MPC though...you get the sounds you need from sampling other sound sources (be it your record collection, a hardware or software synth, a $20 sample CD or some crazy guy shouting at people on the subway). That's why I figured the RS7000 might be closer to what you want from a single piece of hardware, as it does have a bunch of presets to get you started. Chances are though, you'll get bored of the presets after a while and start using sounds from other sources.
Are there really any big time guys in the hip hop world that are totally PC production based?
There's bound to be a few. All of them use software for at least half of what they do (anytime you want to record vocals in a studio you're going to end up using ProTools at some stage). But remember that these guys can also afford to spend insane amounts of money on equipment...
I just checked out the su700 you mentioned...plus theres also a 200. How does this compare with the RS700? How old is this model? Also...I heard that Madlib uses a Boss/Roland SP-303 for almost everything he does...and they are like $250. Or a keyboard?
I dont knkow what to do Im flippin out here cuz I wanna get this gear very soon.
Originally posted by kneelbeforezod
Yeah, Prefuse 73 is kind of a unique case...although Shadow manages to do some amazing work with just an MPC as well. I woudln't argue that this means that just an MPC (or SU700 or ASRx) will be right for everyone...I personally use whatever I can get may hands on be it hardware or software (including Logic, although I only have access to Logic 5 right now), but the MPC2000 just happens to be what I turn to first...
You know, I have two big problems with software sequencers: too many options and too much emphasis on visual arrangement. Sometimes it's really refreshing to make sounds without all the 1280x854 graphical junk going on. It can have far too much influence on how the songs are structured. It can make me really lazy with how I put things together.
Originally posted by TigerWoods99
I heard that Madlib uses a Boss/Roland SP-303 for almost everything he does...and they are like $250.
This is exactly why I don't think it's a good idea to get too hung up on what other folks use.
Originally posted by TigerWoods99
I dont knkow what to do Im flippin out here cuz I wanna get this gear very soon.
The rs-7000 looks really nice.
The problem a lot of folks seem to have is the lack of effects on the mpc, whereas the yamahas do. That makes the yamahas much better for an all-in-one solution.
But what do I know? I haven't really looked at hardware samplers/sequencers for about 4 or 5 years.
Originally posted by TigerWoods99
Man, I am sooooooooo lost now in terms of what to get...and its really important I make a good decision if I shell out the cash.
I just checked out the su700 you mentioned...plus theres also a 200. How does this compare with the RS700? How old is this model? Also...I heard that Madlib uses a Boss/Roland SP-303 for almost everything he does...and they are like $250. Or a keyboard?
I dont knkow what to do Im flippin out here cuz I wanna get this gear very soon.
Weird...I was just talking about Madlib (using the SP-303) with a friend of mine about ten minutes ago. The SP-303 is really limited compared any of the other samplers you list...the Dr. Sample line is primarily intended for use in live situations (a DJ or guitarist that wants to introduce loops into a set)...the fact that Madlib uses it for production is a testament to what a talented producer can do with limited equipment.
If its down to the SU700 and the RS7000 for you, I'd say get the RS7000. The SU700 is a great sampler, but the RS7000 is closer to the all-in-one box that you seem to want.
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
I have dozens of loops and things but nothing very complete...
Tell me about it
Get
-Cubase SX 2.0
-Nuendo 2
-TC Works Native Bundle 3.0
-Waves
-Lounge Lizard 2.0
-Absynth 2
Is there a huge difference between Cubase SX & SL? I think Im gonna go with with Cubase over say Logic cause Ive always liked the older versions and there are tons of VST plugins out there. I might get Reason 2.5, have 2.0 right now but other than the redrum its not what Im lookin for...but Ive seen some of the new features/effects in 2.5 and they seem better suited to me.
Then I will purchase a Yamaha RS7000 for my hardware at the moment, and later get a decent keyboard to replace my old one.