Mozilla 1.5 versus Safari

jxfreak · October 21, 2003 12:08AM

I am trying Mozilla and I think Mozilla feels faster than Safari. Safari will do this weird thing where it will load everything and than re-align the page afterwards. Mozilla will display it instantly.

I also installed Broadband Optomizer and my connection went up from a 1.1 megabit to a 1.2 megabit. Feels snappier overall.

What do you guys feel about Mozilla 1.5?

ghost_user_name · October 21, 2003 12:21AM

What do I feel about Mozilla?

Sure it's fast, but it's no Mac OS X app by any definition. Yes, it runs on Mac OS X, but the whole thing still looks, feels, and acts like a kludgy Linux/Windows port to me. Oh, wait, that's what it is.

And what's with Mozilla STILL creating some bizarre small window titled "hidden" upon startup? Sure, since version 1.0 (i think) it was placed off-screen, but with Exposé it's rearing its ugly head again. Dare I say, "WTF"?

jxfreak · October 21, 2003 12:28AM

I think the modern theme is descent though. Not that bad. Any luck with firebird? What's the difference?

aquatic · October 21, 2003 1:08AM

When are the developers going to get it? Their whole thing with trying to subvert the native OS GUI is a dumb idea. Mozilla internally is getting better, really becoming a good product. But the GUI is so bad I only use Mozilla as a backup. If it was as good or even close to Safari I'd switch every now and then because it usually renders better and quicker. It is just so ugly. No matter what the platform. Linuxheads need to "get" the GUI and especially the philosophy of KISS and ease-of-use. The other issue is RAM usage. Mozilla is bloated. They are going to separate the parts soon but this is long overdue.

mrmister · October 21, 2003 1:26AM

"When are the developers going to get it? Their whole thing with trying to subvert the native OS GUI is a dumb idea."

Maybe someone should tell Apple this about their port of iTunes.

stupider...likeafox · October 21, 2003 3:40AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aquatic

Their whole thing with trying to subvert the native OS GUI is a dumb idea.

They're not trying to subvert it, they're just failing to emulate it very well, basically because Mac OS X's interface is far more advanced than others out there.

One of the main goals of Mozilla Firebird was to make it more native on XP. I think it uses some kind of built-in (to windows that is) themeing and has finally got around to implementing lots of really obscure windows shortcuts.

You can tell that Mozilla is trying given the drop down sheets, preferences, menu bar at the top etc. It's just a pretty damn hard task given their desire to use the same codebase on multiple platforms.

One of the main Firebird developers just got a dual G5, and intends to sort out some issues on the Mac, unfortunately (well, it depends how you look at it) I think he means basic underlying technology rather than the GUI

Finally, I note that Camino doesn't even seem to rate a mention anymore. Why's that? It's got the gui and the rendering.

hobbes · October 21, 2003 6:22AM

Firebird (with the latest beta Pinstripe theme) has just displaced poor Camino has my alternative browser. ...you know, for those times when Safari just isn't quite working right.

Firebird is improving on OS X by leaps and bounds. Latest version (again, with Pinstripe) is quite fast and practically looking like a real, bona fide OS X app.

kelib · October 21, 2003 10:06AM

Will we see a new 1.1 version of Safari in Panther? How sick and tired I am of having to use multible browsers

luca · October 21, 2003 10:08AM

Safari in Panther is 1.1 (v100). But I haven't really noticed any differences between it and Safari in Jaguar.

leonis · October 21, 2003 11:30AM

Safari 1.1 is pretty much a bug fix version for compatiblity, stability etc

ghost_user_name · October 21, 2003 11:38AM

Mozilla was always supposed to be a proof of concept product. They had this great idea many years ago to start the Mozilla project and build an open source web browser. When you actually download and run Mozilla, you're using that proof of concept chunk of code; that is to say, "Here is a product that does everything we promised. Take a look at the source, take a look at the binary. This is what it does, feel free to exploit that."

As such, Mozilla was never polished from a UI standpoint. The user experience counts for a lot, I might add. But where the Mozilla project really shines is in the browsers like Camino. These are browsers that are derived from Mozilla, and are no longer proof of concepts, rather they are actual functioning, polished chunks of code.

I find it amusing that anyone could stomach using Mozilla; the user experience is just plain awful. I can see why the linux geeks like it though...

kirkland · October 21, 2003 12:06PM

Where can one find this pinstripe theme for Mozilla Firebird for OS X?

aquatic · October 21, 2003 2:19PM

Does Safari 1.1 finally let you UNDO typing?

jukebox hero · October 21, 2003 2:46PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aquatic

When are the developers going to get it? Their whole thing with trying to subvert the native OS GUI is a dumb idea.

As a developer it makes a whole lot of sense to develop something that can be used by everybody, today and tomorrow, rather than focusing on a subset and developing for a platform that may or may not be here tomorrow. Before I get all flamed, remember that Apple is on (at least) its fourth API since inception of the company (II, mac, mac PPC, OSX). Windows is just as bad. Developers are sick of it.

th0r · October 21, 2003 4:07PM

Mozilla is my main browser... BUT

I would not use it without Pinstripe Theme.

(That's actually why I haven't upgraded past 1.4, yet)

\

dog almighty · October 21, 2003 10:08PM

Mozilla browsers, especially Mozilla itself, are about on par with rendering speeds to the naked eye, but remain so klutzy and slow when doing simple basic activities unrelated to the internet. They're also so much HUGER than Safari. Maybe the code could use a revision?

wrong robot · October 21, 2003 10:29PM

Camino is great, but it's never updated anymore, besides hte nightlys and those are never that big of updates, just random bug fixes or code experiments or whatever.

aquatic · October 21, 2003 11:26PM

Jukebox if you use the native GUI it doesn't matter. The OS handles the GUI. Or if the app needs control then it should look like the OS, like in Office with all the toolbar icons. It's just common sense. iTunes is different, it is trying to SELL MacOS X and iApp ease of use by showcasing a better GUI. Mozilla isn't trying to sell anything, they just want a good end user experience; but they're not going to get a good end user experience with this fugly Netscape 6/7 crap look going on.

hobbes · October 21, 2003 11:48PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkland

Where can one find this pinstripe theme for Mozilla Firebird for OS X?

Just google "pinstripe".

jukebox hero · October 22, 2003 9:00AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aquatic

Jukebox if you use the native GUI it doesn't matter. The OS handles the GUI. Or if the app needs control then it should look like the OS, like in Office with all the toolbar icons. It's just common sense. iTunes is different, it is trying to SELL MacOS X and iApp ease of use by showcasing a better GUI. Mozilla isn't trying to sell anything, they just want a good end user experience; but they're not going to get a good end user experience with this fugly Netscape 6/7 crap look going on.

How do you use the native GUI in Java? JNI? That would defeat the purpose of Java. Java developers have three mainstream choices (and probably lots of smaller ones); AWT, Swing, and SWT. AWT will look native, but has traditionally been buggy and lacking in features. Swing is slightly less buggy, has more features, but does not look like the native OS (this is what your complaining about). SWT is newer, but is supposed to be a hybrid of AWT and Swing.. Supposedly it uses native components where it can, and augments them with lightweight components where it has to. I'm going to try this soon.

cosmo · October 22, 2003 9:32AM

I'm still using camino, its a great app and the fastest browser out there for OS X IMO. Firebird seemed on par in terms of speed, but until other os X browsers can use the keychain as well as camino does, i'm sticking with Camino. Its use of the keychain is, by far its best feature.

I wish they would update it more, or has development stopped?

Mozilla 1.5 versus Safari

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