Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this just the SAME eMac that Apple has had on the shelves in 2003 ... it just looks like they cut the sub-1GHz G4 from the line.
I mean, where's the USB 2.0 that is supposed to be standard on all new Macs? Where's the upgraded graphics card? Where's the faster DDR SDRAM? Where's the faster G4 processor?
This isn't a "new" eMac ... it's just the same eMac with a lower price.
If this is the only "update" Apple gives the eMac for the next few months, I am going to be VERY upset.
The education base model is £100 cheaper here in the UK (at £550) but lacks the combo drive. For £650 for the standard base model though...unbelievable...and with iLife and appleworks and a rake of other stuff.
Still, U$1099 for 1Ghz G4/80GB/SuperDrive ain't bad.
I'm not saying it's "horrible." It just bothers me that the top of the line iBook now has several features (faster cache, faster DDR SDRAM, USB 2.0, and bluetooth option) that make it superior to the eMac.
The eMac is supposed to sit between the iBook and the iMac in terms of performance. In fact, for a while there was little difference between an eMac and an iMac other than the monitor ... which was why the eMac was so great.
The current top-of-the-line eMac is still a great computer, but it needs a faster processor (1.25GHz or greater in the top-end model), faster DDR SDRAM, USB 2.0, a larger/faster graphics card (at least in the top-end model), and a bluetooth option.
The current graphics card in the eMac already has some difficulty with a few of the newest games, and Photoshop should be faster than it currently is on an eMac.
The current eMac is still a good option at its new, lower price ... but it's starting to show obvious signs that it's behind the times. Apple needs a desktop computer that performs almost as well as the iMac in every way but doesn't cost iMac prices.
If this is the only eMac that Apple releases before Christmas, eMac sales will be very low this holiday season.
For those complaining about the "new" eMac, please look at these three graphics from the front page of apple.com:
Notice anything? That's right... Apple is not calling the eMac "New". It's just an update, and obviously a small one. Even the eMac page itself does not mention the word "New." Don't let the thread title deceive you.
For those complaining about the "new" eMac, please look at these three graphics from the front page of apple.com:
Notice anything? That's right... Apple is not calling the eMac "New". It's just an update, and obviously a small one. Even the eMac page itself does not mention the word "New." Don't lead the thread title deceive you.
Quite right. This is not a "new" eMac. But the new price, removal of the slower eMac model and the update to Panther without making improvements makes me a little concerned about the future of new eMacs before Christmas.
The new iBooks were overdue, but we also are approaching "overdue" status for new eMacs. One could be forgiven for thinking the new price, removal of sub-1GHz G4 models, and inclusion of Panther is a sign that Apple wants to delay new eMacs until after Christmas ... something I hope is NOT true.
I wouldn't be surprised if the eMac was deliberately dumbed down eventually to be phased out. Or perhaps it'll be available only to educational institutions (this time for good).
Yo, the eMac doesn't need to be updated, it needs to be cheaper! Noone buys an eMac to have a kickass computer. The iBook updates today just drive home this point that all the gee-whiz goodies are elsewhere. The eMac is JUST there to push the cost of entry into the Mac world as LOW AS POSSIBLE. They should keep the damn thing right where it is performance wise and just lower the price, only updating to higher performance stuff when the newer parts actually become cheaper than the parts they replace. The only possible exception is for USB 2.0.
Of course if Apple were even more serious about lowering prices, they would cut the bulky CRT out of the deal and offer a G4 pizzabox 800Mhz for $500. However the problem with this idea is threefold:
* "pizzamac" has no monitor and is thus harder to sell to grandma as a complete solution.
* The price savings from not having to build the thing around a CRT are greatly overestimated by posters on this board - Apple would save around 70-100 dollars in manufacturing costs, not the $250 dollars that people are claiming, thus keeping the headless box out of real bargain basement territory.
* the pizzamac is really very attractive to both technically oriented switchers AND current mac folks who just want a little OSX box sitting around as a server or kids computer. Even some creative professionals would settle for it if it looked OK If the pizzamac never appears then these people may very well buy an emac or an iMac. Some might even reach up for a G5! So apple is having a hard time deciding whether losing those profits are offset by the attractiveness of this machine to techies and curious folk from outside the Apple world.
*SO* For right now the eMac needs to step the heck up and keep the low end happy! Keep it low end and keep pushing it down. If it was 500-600 dollars new I would have converted about 5 people in the last year. Most people have been trained to view buying a used computer technological suicide, so the old eMacs floating around out there aren't really helping this evangelist much.
Yo, the eMac doesn't need to be updated, it needs to be cheaper!
Since when did $800 become become spendy for computers? The eMac need not be a loss leader for Apple.
Quote:
They should keep the damn thing right where it is performance wise and just lower the price, only updating to higher performance stuff when the newer parts actually become cheaper than the parts they replace. The only possible exception is for USB 2.0.
This doesn't work. If it had then the $599 G3 iMac would have sold by the bushels when it was available 18 months ago. Ask any saleperson with experience price is rarely the most important feature for consumers. It's a priority..but within limits.
Quote:
SO* For right now the eMac needs to step the heck up and keep the low end happy! Keep it low end and keep pushing it down. If it was 500-600 dollars new I would have converted about 5 people in the last year. Most people have been trained to view buying a used computer technological suicide, so the old eMacs floating around out there aren't really helping this evangelist much.
While I haven't seen any studies. Common sense or perhaps logic would dictate that the purchasers of $500-600 are probably not your best clients for generating revenue.
The new eMac updates sound like good computers for those that simply don't need the excesses. Could it be cheaper. Perhaps but overall the software and monitor being included I think it represents a good value for those adding a second Mac to the home or doing a lowcost switch.
Yo, the eMac doesn't need to be updated, it needs to be cheaper! Noone buys an eMac to have a kickass computer. The iBook updates today just drive home this point that all the gee-whiz goodies are elsewhere. The eMac is JUST there to push the cost of entry into the Mac world as LOW AS POSSIBLE. They should keep the damn thing right where it is performance wise and just lower the price, only updating to higher performance stuff when the newer parts actually become cheaper than the parts they replace. The only possible exception is for USB 2.0.
Peace,
Curufinwe
That philosophy works great for automobile manufacturers. Almost ever auto maker has a car that is just for people who need cheap-as-possible transportation ... but that doesn't work in the world of computers.
The problem: Software and peripherals.
New software comes out all the time and the newest, greatest software often requires the latest technology. Sure, you can "get by" using old versions of software, but almost no one wants to do that. People want to run the latest version of Photoshop or Photoshop Elements at warp speed. They want to pick up a game at the store and not have to worry if their system meets the minimum system requirements.
Likewise, people want to add the latest/fastest keyboards, external drives, Internet connections, memory card readers, etc. You don't get the full speed of those fancy USB 2.0 memory card readers if you only have USB 1.0.
Likewise, some of the newest Mac games run noticeably slower on a 32MB graphics card like the one in the eMac compared to the 64MB card in the iMac.
It's time we stop making excuses for Apple's bad decisions. PeeCee makers have come out swinging with cheap computers with surprisingly good features. The eMac needs a faster processor, faster DDR SDRAM, a bigger graphics card, USB 2.0 and bluetooth. And it needs to stay at the new, lower price.
Let's be clear. I'm not saying that the eMac doesn't need to be updated, just that the next few times there is a choice between lowering the price $100 and adding 100 MHz and 10 GB to the hard drive, apple needs to do the former until they have a genuine 500-600 dollar computer. USB 2.0 is the only exception to this, but you can follow my rule here too - 2.0 chipsets are not more expensive than 1.0 anymore to OEMs. That's when you update.
Apple just needs to make the strategic decision that they will never replace a cheaper part with a more expensive one in the lowest spec'ed eMac. That doesn't mean there won't be updates, just that they will come at a pace that will allow the machine to gradually sink to the price point that people purchase entry level computers for these days. 599 is the key point. 799 is just not cutting it for those people who would be brave enough to make the switch if they could justify it to themselves.
A good PC is $500 these days. People will pay $100 more for a Mac in the blink of an eye. But they will not pay $300 more. That's 60% more expensive - and the iApps are just not going to overcome that gap for someone who hasn't been in touch with the real difference that a Mac makes in your life. Especially with the FUD about Macs being less compatible.
No bashing going on here. I;ve told you above why the eMac is the right computer for Apple to bring to the masses. I'm just letting you know what choices Apple needs to make to get it there.
"Huh" indeed. The "while supplies last" comment makes me think that Apple may have a new eMac planned for Christmas or just after Christmas.
By the way, I'm not bashing the eMac. I think the eMac is the best "idea" Apple has in the current lineup. (A high-powered, affordable Mac desktop ... what the iMac used to be.)
My wife has a first-revision eMac and I have been planning to buy a new eMac around Christmas. If I sound mean (which was not my intention) it is because I have been expecting Apple to release an eMac update. Cutting the slowest processor out of the eMac lineup and lowering the price is not what I consider an "update." (Although I do admit the cheaper price is nice.)
The eMac is still a great Mac, but it has some obvious weak points when compared to the other Macs. As much as I would prefer an eMac, if Apple doesn't update the eMac with the new features I've mentioned above I'd rather buy a 14-inch iBook. At least that way I'd have faster DDR SDRAM, USB 2.0 and bluetooth ... plus I could use my computer on the go.
I'm just holding out in hopes that Apple will improve the features of the eMac by Christmas.
Where did you find that? Apple must have been clearing out the eMacs before they introduced the update today... notice they say "CD-ROM Drive," when the updated eMacs have only Combo and SuperDrives.
I think the eMac is a great computer and should not be removed from the lineup at all. I've been using one as my main computer for over a year now and the thing is just great. I just have a few comments/suggestions about it.
Since Apple can't get the LCD iMacs below $1000, they MUST have a low-end Desktop for the cheaper crowd. Besides, I'm really not impressed with the screens on the iMacs... I'll take my crisp 17" CRT on my eMac any day over the iMacs low-res LCD.
I would like to see the eMac to hit $599. I'm hoping that maybe @ MWSF, Apple will introduce revised iMacs and eMacs. Hopefull the iMacs will get G5's (but would they get them before the Powerbooks?) and the eMacs will get faster G4's, 167MHz bus, 256MB DDR SDRAM minimum, USB 2.0, refreshed form-factor, Bluetooth option, and hopefully a faster video card too. It'd be nice to see 2 models around $599 and $899 just to give the bargain-basement shoppers (ie, college students like me) something to chomp on.
About the video card though, it would be REALLY nice if it was upgradeable like the Cube's was. Even if it's only an Apple-sanctioned upgrade kit, it'd be nice to swap the video card out with SOMETHING new. The GeForce2MX on my eMac is pretty weak when it comes to playing anything off the shelf today, and there's nothing I can do about it.
Comments
Originally posted by Alpha Mac
apple store
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this just the SAME eMac that Apple has had on the shelves in 2003 ... it just looks like they cut the sub-1GHz G4 from the line.
I mean, where's the USB 2.0 that is supposed to be standard on all new Macs? Where's the upgraded graphics card? Where's the faster DDR SDRAM? Where's the faster G4 processor?
This isn't a "new" eMac ... it's just the same eMac with a lower price.
If this is the only "update" Apple gives the eMac for the next few months, I am going to be VERY upset.
Apple's looking an absolute bargain.
Still, U$1099 for 1Ghz G4/80GB/SuperDrive ain't bad.
Originally posted by scottiB
rustedborg, you're correct.
Still, U$1099 for 1Ghz G4/80GB/SuperDrive ain't bad.
I'm not saying it's "horrible." It just bothers me that the top of the line iBook now has several features (faster cache, faster DDR SDRAM, USB 2.0, and bluetooth option) that make it superior to the eMac.
The eMac is supposed to sit between the iBook and the iMac in terms of performance. In fact, for a while there was little difference between an eMac and an iMac other than the monitor ... which was why the eMac was so great.
The current top-of-the-line eMac is still a great computer, but it needs a faster processor (1.25GHz or greater in the top-end model), faster DDR SDRAM, USB 2.0, a larger/faster graphics card (at least in the top-end model), and a bluetooth option.
The current graphics card in the eMac already has some difficulty with a few of the newest games, and Photoshop should be faster than it currently is on an eMac.
The current eMac is still a good option at its new, lower price ... but it's starting to show obvious signs that it's behind the times. Apple needs a desktop computer that performs almost as well as the iMac in every way but doesn't cost iMac prices.
If this is the only eMac that Apple releases before Christmas, eMac sales will be very low this holiday season.
Notice anything? That's right... Apple is not calling the eMac "New". It's just an update, and obviously a small one. Even the eMac page itself does not mention the word "New." Don't let the thread title deceive you.
Originally posted by rageous
For those complaining about the "new" eMac, please look at these three graphics from the front page of apple.com:
Notice anything? That's right... Apple is not calling the eMac "New". It's just an update, and obviously a small one. Even the eMac page itself does not mention the word "New." Don't lead the thread title deceive you.
Quite right. This is not a "new" eMac. But the new price, removal of the slower eMac model and the update to Panther without making improvements makes me a little concerned about the future of new eMacs before Christmas.
The new iBooks were overdue, but we also are approaching "overdue" status for new eMacs. One could be forgiven for thinking the new price, removal of sub-1GHz G4 models, and inclusion of Panther is a sign that Apple wants to delay new eMacs until after Christmas ... something I hope is NOT true.
The only surprise was the exclusion of USB 2.0
Otherwise, I think it's on it's last legs.
Of course if Apple were even more serious about lowering prices, they would cut the bulky CRT out of the deal and offer a G4 pizzabox 800Mhz for $500. However the problem with this idea is threefold:
* "pizzamac" has no monitor and is thus harder to sell to grandma as a complete solution.
* The price savings from not having to build the thing around a CRT are greatly overestimated by posters on this board - Apple would save around 70-100 dollars in manufacturing costs, not the $250 dollars that people are claiming, thus keeping the headless box out of real bargain basement territory.
* the pizzamac is really very attractive to both technically oriented switchers AND current mac folks who just want a little OSX box sitting around as a server or kids computer. Even some creative professionals would settle for it if it looked OK
*SO* For right now the eMac needs to step the heck up and keep the low end happy! Keep it low end and keep pushing it down. If it was 500-600 dollars new I would have converted about 5 people in the last year. Most people have been trained to view buying a used computer technological suicide, so the old eMacs floating around out there aren't really helping this evangelist much.
Peace,
Curufinwe
Yo, the eMac doesn't need to be updated, it needs to be cheaper!
Since when did $800 become become spendy for computers? The eMac need not be a loss leader for Apple.
They should keep the damn thing right where it is performance wise and just lower the price, only updating to higher performance stuff when the newer parts actually become cheaper than the parts they replace. The only possible exception is for USB 2.0.
This doesn't work. If it had then the $599 G3 iMac would have sold by the bushels when it was available 18 months ago. Ask any saleperson with experience price is rarely the most important feature for consumers. It's a priority..but within limits.
SO* For right now the eMac needs to step the heck up and keep the low end happy! Keep it low end and keep pushing it down. If it was 500-600 dollars new I would have converted about 5 people in the last year. Most people have been trained to view buying a used computer technological suicide, so the old eMacs floating around out there aren't really helping this evangelist much.
While I haven't seen any studies. Common sense or perhaps logic would dictate that the purchasers of $500-600 are probably not your best clients for generating revenue.
The new eMac updates sound like good computers for those that simply don't need the excesses. Could it be cheaper. Perhaps but overall the software and monitor being included I think it represents a good value for those adding a second Mac to the home or doing a lowcost switch.
Originally posted by Curufinwe
Yo, the eMac doesn't need to be updated, it needs to be cheaper! Noone buys an eMac to have a kickass computer. The iBook updates today just drive home this point that all the gee-whiz goodies are elsewhere. The eMac is JUST there to push the cost of entry into the Mac world as LOW AS POSSIBLE. They should keep the damn thing right where it is performance wise and just lower the price, only updating to higher performance stuff when the newer parts actually become cheaper than the parts they replace. The only possible exception is for USB 2.0.
Peace,
Curufinwe
That philosophy works great for automobile manufacturers. Almost ever auto maker has a car that is just for people who need cheap-as-possible transportation ... but that doesn't work in the world of computers.
The problem: Software and peripherals.
New software comes out all the time and the newest, greatest software often requires the latest technology. Sure, you can "get by" using old versions of software, but almost no one wants to do that. People want to run the latest version of Photoshop or Photoshop Elements at warp speed. They want to pick up a game at the store and not have to worry if their system meets the minimum system requirements.
Likewise, people want to add the latest/fastest keyboards, external drives, Internet connections, memory card readers, etc. You don't get the full speed of those fancy USB 2.0 memory card readers if you only have USB 1.0.
Likewise, some of the newest Mac games run noticeably slower on a 32MB graphics card like the one in the eMac compared to the 64MB card in the iMac.
It's time we stop making excuses for Apple's bad decisions. PeeCee makers have come out swinging with cheap computers with surprisingly good features. The eMac needs a faster processor, faster DDR SDRAM, a bigger graphics card, USB 2.0 and bluetooth. And it needs to stay at the new, lower price.
'nuff said.
Apple just needs to make the strategic decision that they will never replace a cheaper part with a more expensive one in the lowest spec'ed eMac. That doesn't mean there won't be updates, just that they will come at a pace that will allow the machine to gradually sink to the price point that people purchase entry level computers for these days. 599 is the key point. 799 is just not cutting it for those people who would be brave enough to make the switch if they could justify it to themselves.
A good PC is $500 these days. People will pay $100 more for a Mac in the blink of an eye. But they will not pay $300 more. That's 60% more expensive - and the iApps are just not going to overcome that gap for someone who hasn't been in touch with the real difference that a Mac makes in your life. Especially with the FUD about Macs being less compatible.
$799. Basically the same as the 15" G4 iMac - $1,299. $500 less. Excellent value.
* We got a 17" LCD for $400. Why the hey are 15" iMacs so expensive?
Originally posted by Brad
Huh. I never noticed this before.
"Huh" indeed. The "while supplies last" comment makes me think that Apple may have a new eMac planned for Christmas or just after Christmas.
By the way, I'm not bashing the eMac. I think the eMac is the best "idea" Apple has in the current lineup. (A high-powered, affordable Mac desktop ... what the iMac used to be.)
My wife has a first-revision eMac and I have been planning to buy a new eMac around Christmas. If I sound mean (which was not my intention) it is because I have been expecting Apple to release an eMac update. Cutting the slowest processor out of the eMac lineup and lowering the price is not what I consider an "update." (Although I do admit the cheaper price is nice.)
The eMac is still a great Mac, but it has some obvious weak points when compared to the other Macs. As much as I would prefer an eMac, if Apple doesn't update the eMac with the new features I've mentioned above I'd rather buy a 14-inch iBook. At least that way I'd have faster DDR SDRAM, USB 2.0 and bluetooth ... plus I could use my computer on the go.
I'm just holding out in hopes that Apple will improve the features of the eMac by Christmas.
Originally posted by Brad
Huh. I never noticed this before.
Where did you find that? Apple must have been clearing out the eMacs before they introduced the update today... notice they say "CD-ROM Drive," when the updated eMacs have only Combo and SuperDrives.
I think the eMac is a great computer and should not be removed from the lineup at all. I've been using one as my main computer for over a year now and the thing is just great. I just have a few comments/suggestions about it.
Since Apple can't get the LCD iMacs below $1000, they MUST have a low-end Desktop for the cheaper crowd. Besides, I'm really not impressed with the screens on the iMacs... I'll take my crisp 17" CRT on my eMac any day over the iMacs low-res LCD.
I would like to see the eMac to hit $599. I'm hoping that maybe @ MWSF, Apple will introduce revised iMacs and eMacs. Hopefull the iMacs will get G5's (but would they get them before the Powerbooks?) and the eMacs will get faster G4's, 167MHz bus, 256MB DDR SDRAM minimum, USB 2.0, refreshed form-factor, Bluetooth option, and hopefully a faster video card too. It'd be nice to see 2 models around $599 and $899 just to give the bargain-basement shoppers (ie, college students like me) something to chomp on.
About the video card though, it would be REALLY nice if it was upgradeable like the Cube's was. Even if it's only an Apple-sanctioned upgrade kit, it'd be nice to swap the video card out with SOMETHING new. The GeForce2MX on my eMac is pretty weak when it comes to playing anything off the shelf today, and there's nothing I can do about it.
Originally posted by Eugene
Can anybody say Top500 supercomputer? With eMacs? All we need are a couple hundred eMac 20-packs! Who's with me?
Problem is the lack of PCI card support means you have to network them through the built-in Ethernet which is too slow for a top 500 super computer.