When is old Bill gonna realize that the only thing he ever invented was a joke of an operating system. Even that he really didn't invent. Everything that windoze is today was bought from somewhere else. Longhorn will fall flat on its face because it will be no different than any other crappy windoze OS. It will be unstable, it will be virus prone. All M$ is doing is giving hackers another reason to be hackers. That is all they will ever do. Jobs and Wozniak invented personal computing. Jobs continues to reinvent it to this day.
" Everything that windoze is today was bought from somewhere else."
Hmmmm...Sounds a bit like how Apple got its start...
"Jobs and Wozniak invented personal computing. Jobs continues to reinvent it to this day."
Now thats simply NOT true...They'd certainly like us to think that.....
There were others out there who got the whole ball rolling...including the first desk computer that could be assembled at home...re American Electronics..& Popular mechanics..
You know, to play devil's advocate and all, Microsoft was a real pioneer of making personal computing personal; that is empowering the individual to own a computer. I think it's difficult to claim they invented it, but they have certainly played a powerful role in bringing it to the masses. The only evidence we need to support that is market share.
Microsoft wrote an operating system that was widely adopted for use on, comparatively speaking, inexpensive computers that continued to become affordable for consumers. Apple played a role too, but they simply were not quite as successful because, and still to this day, their kit costs more than Intel based kit.
I think Apple enjoys being a niche player.
Anyhow, I think getting all worked up over this is silly. Gates is playing lip service, and people only rag on comments like this because a lot of people don't like the guy. I'm sure we could find a lot of daft quotes from our side of the fence.
You know, to play devil's advocate and all, Microsoft was a real pioneer of making personal computing personal; that is empowering the individual to own a computer. I think it's difficult to claim they invented it, but they have certainly played a powerful role in bringing it to the masses. The only evidence we need to support that is market share.
Microsoft wrote an operating system that was widely adopted for use on, comparatively speaking, inexpensive computers that continued to become affordable for consumers. Apple played a role too, but they simply were not quite as successful because, and still to this day, their kit costs more than Intel based kit.
I think Apple enjoys being a niche player.
Anyhow, I think getting all worked up over this is silly. Gates is playing lip service, and people only rag on comments like this because a lot of people don't like the guy. I'm sure we could find a lot of daft quotes from our side of the fence.
On that last part, probably true. On the line above that, and above that, No. Apple pioneered a GUI and floppy drives and built-in display connectors, all important things today (except floppy, but they also pioneered built-in CD with the stinky IIvx.)
Apple did not invent personal computing, they are never accredited as such. They are always referred to as the company that Started the Personal Computer revolution. That is, they were the ones that brought the idea of a personal computer away from the 4-eyes and poindexters* and to the general populace.
Also, those DIY kits that woz liked so much, were ridiculously inefficient and complicated for a non-tech type person to use, apple made a more usable computer, I guess in that vein it COULD be argued that they invented the personal computer, because prior to them "personal computers" required an immense amount of know-how, and you had to DIY
Apple did not invent personal computing, they are never accredited as such. They are always referred to as the company that Started the Personal Computer revolution. That is, they were the ones that brought the idea of a personal computer away from the 4-eyes and poindexters* and to the general populace.
Also, those DIY kits that woz liked so much, were ridiculously inefficient and complicated for a non-tech type person to use, apple made a more usable computer, I guess in that vein it COULD be argued that they invented the personal computer, because prior to them "personal computers" required an immense amount of know-how, and you had to DIY
*though surely geeks were the first to bite
ummm... I remember the Apple ][
It was definitely not for the masses, though it was a step in the right direction. Lay off the 4-eyes bashing or I'll hunt you down and show you my katana (that's a joke- I would never gut you in the real world).
I'm not saying Apple didn't contribute something meaningful. I'm simply saying that Microsoft had extreme success with it, and as such, deserve a little credit for that. Microsoft enjoys extreme success with the consumer market to this very day. They must have done something right. You can hate Microsoft all you want, but... I'm not even continuing this sentence
I'm not saying Apple didn't contribute something meaningful. I'm simply saying that Microsoft had extreme success with it, and as such, deserve a little credit for that. Microsoft enjoys extreme success with the consumer market to this very day. They must have done something right. You can hate Microsoft all you want, but... I'm not even continuing this sentence
Three events conspired to put microshit in the position it is now.
1: Steve Jobs Dumb "hippy shit" us againt the world that painted IBM as the "enemy" that was killing off freedom blah blah blah.
2: Letting the "mouse" patent go to all new comers..How cocky can you get...!
3: Failing to recognize how so many small to medium sized company / businessmen fancied the idea of having an " IBM " related computer in their office...
In business terms, "IBM " meant credos & big snob value....even if the OS microshit did Jack shit..the fact that it was in some way connected to IBM meant a lot..
Apple blew it( being a dominant player )..by treating middle class america with contempt.& that's Steve Job's arrogant trademark...
Gates did not invented the Personal computer, he popularized it.
Apple started the revolution of personal computing (but did not invented it either), and Microsoft was the company who allowed to make it at a giant scale.
I think Powerdoc summed it up well. Microsoft popularized it.
In regards to Aquafire's points... I think it is incredibly daft to say if what you listed did not happen Microsoft would not be in the position they are in today. I'm not even going to bother responding to this anymore. It's all well and good to look back in retrospect and outline how if things were different they wouldn't be the same - but that's not all that contributed to it, and like it or not, Microsoft, as Powerdoc elegantly pointed out, still popularized the personal computer.
A little hint folks... when you keep calling Microsoft "Microshit" or "Micro$oft" it makes you look so incredibly snobbish, arrogant, bitter, and a whole host or other adjectives that are not intended to be complimentary. Let it go people...
I really don't know who actually invented it. I know things were taken from Xerox on actual usuable interface, Apple ran with that idea. Altair 88 or whatever it was, had absolutely no actual compting value as we know today. No keyboard, no mouse or monitor from what I understand. Series of flip switches. I think that yes, Apple was the first to actually make it usable and market it to the public- it would be hard to say who actually invented it...just my 2 cents of BS.
I really don't know who actually invented it. I know things were taken from Xerox on actual usuable interface, Apple ran with that idea. Altair 88 or whatever it was, had absolutely no actual compting value as we know today. No keyboard, no mouse or monitor from what I understand. Series of flip switches. I think that yes, Apple was the first to actually make it usable and market it to the public- it would be hard to say who actually invented it...just my 2 cents of BS.
The Xeros interface was at the origin of the first Mac, but not the first Apple computer, the one created by Woz.
I can't remember what was the first personal PC, i just remember when i was a teenager of names like , Grid, Commodore, Sinclair, Zilog (the chip), Apple2, HP ...
At this time 16 K, was huge, and the knowledge of Basic was required in order to be able to do something with your computer. It was a geek time. My first computer was a pocket one from Sharp (i hope that my father did not throw it to hell, because it's a collector, especially the 4 color pencil printer). I made some basics Basic software, like a soft to play alone to mastermind, and other basic equations.
This computer was more a toy than anything else ... but i was fun. It scared the hell out of my russian teacher, a white russian immigrate, that think that this stuff was magic
The first usefull generation of computer came with bureautic applications. Typewriting on computer was the first revolution for the average joe consumer.
The next revolution after bureautic use, come from graphic. But it take time to become professional, my brother who is a graphist, buyed an amiga 2000 : it was great, but useless for a professional work. This came later.
Internet was the next great things that happened in the PC world, and contribute much to the popularisation of PC in homes.
"In regards to Aquafire's points... I think it is incredibly daft to say if what you listed did not happen Microsoft would not be in the position they are in today.
Well you obviously didn't read my points clearly...
"when you keep calling Microsoft "Microshit" or "Micro$oft" it makes you look so incredibly snobbish, arrogant, bitter, and a whole host or other adjectives that are not intended to be complimentary. Let it
Actually quite the contrary...and even more Pc users are using these descriptions...its about their MS's bad business ethics...coercion.. driving competitors out of business..lying..etc etc etc...fear of the Open source world etc.
And finally a little history lesson from Woz himself won't go astray...
"When Apple offered a GUI interface the businessmen using Microsoft & typing in commands by hand all said that the Macintosh was just a toy...Then Gates brought out the Windows system based around the GUI...and all of a sudden the same businessmen flocked to buy it...you didn't hear anyone of them callling it ( the GUI interface ) a toy anymore. Personally, everytime I look at a windows machine I smile because I know that in a way they are all Apple machines..so you know..we were right all along "
As far as I am concerned..Apple "Popularised" the desk top computer...Microsoft on the other hand didn't so much popularize as "Monopolize" through restrictive Licencing practices...
And that's the BIG difference..Gates & his company are respected mainly out of fear & compliance..but they will never be truly loved in the same way that Apples are....
The way I remember it, having lived through it ...
there are two ways of looking at it. Is M$ saying they invented the personal computer or personal computing?
Okay, the personal computer. This could be seen as the IBM creation called the "personal computer" which was a sad kind of low end hardware which was trying to grab a hold of the small expanding "home computing" market. IBM was big and lumbering at the time and could not adapt quickly enough to grow with emerging technologies. Once they got something up to speed it was already out of date. This is when they set up the "blue sky" division whose responsibility was to keep up with cutting edge technology. This was in 1979. These were the people behind IBM PC.
I can quote this. In 1981, I was performing work experience at IBM, and the guy who had been assigned to keep me busy, stated that it was IBM's goal to have a million IBM PCs on desktops around the world by the end of 1981. And they believed they could do it. And they did it.
He then handed me an RPG2 manual ant told me to learn it.
So, the term "PC" was really popularised by IBM. They invented the personal computer. But they did not invent the personal computing experience.
You could go back to talk about the apple ][, TRS 80, Commodore PET 2001, but the idea of personal computing where you could get your computer to do interesting stuff really (and not being a tech head) is a toss up between the Vic-20/Com-64, or the Apple }{.
All being said and done, I believe the Vic-20/Com-64 realy made computing accessable to the general public for the first time. A computer where you could plug something in or load it from tape and the program would run.
Then came the Amiga, Atari ST, TI, and Coleco?
But generally, we settle for second best. VHS vs Beta. NTSC vs TRNC, PC vs Mac.
So where does M$ fit in to any of this?
Dunno. They certainly didn't invent anything.
I remember their sad version of DOS. DR DOS was what you wanted if you had a PC. Good and reliable. MS DOS was often unreliable and piping didn't work too well.
What can M$ claim in the whole evolution of PCs? Windows 3.1, NT3.5?
What M$ can really claim tracks of land on is Windows 1. It was the step forward. It was amazingly cr4p, it was a ripoff, it mainly didn't work but it still was a step beyond DOS. And DR DOS didn't have anything. And this was at a point where IBM was pushing DOWN into the desktop.
So we got something that was slightly better to use than a miniframe on your desktop. And absolutely no one knew how to use them. Which was a shame 'cos they cost so much.
What M$ offered was a way for the tech heads to muscle their way into corporate identity and make themselves respectble. (I should know, I was one of them.) It used to be a joke if you knew how to use a PC.
Main/miniframe support people had the respect and the bucks.
I think Bill Gates only mentioned the "invented personal computing" statement, because there is nothing the company has achieved in recent memory that it can be proud about. Even it's latest office release has gotten minimal press. Linux is only years away from securing the business world "fully and completely"
"...... Linux is only years away from securing the business world "fully and completely. "
Given M$'s adverse position to Open source Vs Apple's growing respect in that same enviroment, Apple stands to reap the harvest of it's courage..while M$ will slowly sink..
Actually I think it is already happening, but like the Titanic, ( because it is so huge ), M$ may not show it at first, but it is heading down....& within a decade M$ will be a shadow of its former glory days...
Comments
" Everything that windoze is today was bought from somewhere else."
Hmmmm...Sounds a bit like how Apple got its start...
"Jobs and Wozniak invented personal computing. Jobs continues to reinvent it to this day."
Now thats simply NOT true...They'd certainly like us to think that.....
There were others out there who got the whole ball rolling...including the first desk computer that could be assembled at home...re American Electronics..& Popular mechanics..
Woz loved it..but I forget it's name....
But even earlier ( 1974 ) saw the advent of 2 desktop computers..
The "SCELBI" & the "Mark 8"
The Scelbi ( short for Scientific Electronic Biological, first came out in March of 1974. Up and running, it came with 1k of memory & cost $565.
15k memory upgrade cost $2760.
The "Mark~8" invented by Jonathan Titus ran a close second having appeared in July of 1974...It ran on a intel 8008 chip
Microsoft wrote an operating system that was widely adopted for use on, comparatively speaking, inexpensive computers that continued to become affordable for consumers. Apple played a role too, but they simply were not quite as successful because, and still to this day, their kit costs more than Intel based kit.
I think Apple enjoys being a niche player.
Anyhow, I think getting all worked up over this is silly. Gates is playing lip service, and people only rag on comments like this because a lot of people don't like the guy. I'm sure we could find a lot of daft quotes from our side of the fence.
Originally posted by LoCash
You know, to play devil's advocate and all, Microsoft was a real pioneer of making personal computing personal; that is empowering the individual to own a computer. I think it's difficult to claim they invented it, but they have certainly played a powerful role in bringing it to the masses. The only evidence we need to support that is market share.
Microsoft wrote an operating system that was widely adopted for use on, comparatively speaking, inexpensive computers that continued to become affordable for consumers. Apple played a role too, but they simply were not quite as successful because, and still to this day, their kit costs more than Intel based kit.
I think Apple enjoys being a niche player.
Anyhow, I think getting all worked up over this is silly. Gates is playing lip service, and people only rag on comments like this because a lot of people don't like the guy. I'm sure we could find a lot of daft quotes from our side of the fence.
On that last part, probably true. On the line above that, and above that, No. Apple pioneered a GUI and floppy drives and built-in display connectors, all important things today (except floppy, but they also pioneered built-in CD with the stinky IIvx.)
Also, those DIY kits that woz liked so much, were ridiculously inefficient and complicated for a non-tech type person to use, apple made a more usable computer, I guess in that vein it COULD be argued that they invented the personal computer, because prior to them "personal computers" required an immense amount of know-how, and you had to DIY
*though surely geeks were the first to bite
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
Apple did not invent personal computing, they are never accredited as such. They are always referred to as the company that Started the Personal Computer revolution. That is, they were the ones that brought the idea of a personal computer away from the 4-eyes and poindexters* and to the general populace.
Also, those DIY kits that woz liked so much, were ridiculously inefficient and complicated for a non-tech type person to use, apple made a more usable computer, I guess in that vein it COULD be argued that they invented the personal computer, because prior to them "personal computers" required an immense amount of know-how, and you had to DIY
*though surely geeks were the first to bite
ummm... I remember the Apple ][
It was definitely not for the masses, though it was a step in the right direction. Lay off the 4-eyes bashing or I'll hunt you down and show you my katana (that's a joke- I would never gut you in the real world).
Originally posted by Ye Olde generator
][
It was definitely not for the masses, though it was a step in the right direction.
That's the idea, a step in the right direction.
Originally posted by LoCash
I'm not saying Apple didn't contribute something meaningful. I'm simply saying that Microsoft had extreme success with it, and as such, deserve a little credit for that. Microsoft enjoys extreme success with the consumer market to this very day. They must have done something right. You can hate Microsoft all you want, but... I'm not even continuing this sentence
Three events conspired to put microshit in the position it is now.
1: Steve Jobs Dumb "hippy shit" us againt the world that painted IBM as the "enemy" that was killing off freedom blah blah blah.
2: Letting the "mouse" patent go to all new comers..How cocky can you get...!
3: Failing to recognize how so many small to medium sized company / businessmen fancied the idea of having an " IBM " related computer in their office...
In business terms, "IBM " meant credos & big snob value....even if the OS microshit did Jack shit..the fact that it was in some way connected to IBM meant a lot..
Apple blew it( being a dominant player )..by treating middle class america with contempt.& that's Steve Job's arrogant trademark...
Apple started the revolution of personal computing (but did not invented it either), and Microsoft was the company who allowed to make it at a giant scale.
In regards to Aquafire's points... I think it is incredibly daft to say if what you listed did not happen Microsoft would not be in the position they are in today. I'm not even going to bother responding to this anymore. It's all well and good to look back in retrospect and outline how if things were different they wouldn't be the same - but that's not all that contributed to it, and like it or not, Microsoft, as Powerdoc elegantly pointed out, still popularized the personal computer.
A little hint folks... when you keep calling Microsoft "Microshit" or "Micro$oft" it makes you look so incredibly snobbish, arrogant, bitter, and a whole host or other adjectives that are not intended to be complimentary. Let it go people...
Originally posted by tommy_thompson
I really don't know who actually invented it. I know things were taken from Xerox on actual usuable interface, Apple ran with that idea. Altair 88 or whatever it was, had absolutely no actual compting value as we know today. No keyboard, no mouse or monitor from what I understand. Series of flip switches. I think that yes, Apple was the first to actually make it usable and market it to the public- it would be hard to say who actually invented it...just my 2 cents of BS.
The Xeros interface was at the origin of the first Mac, but not the first Apple computer, the one created by Woz.
I can't remember what was the first personal PC, i just remember when i was a teenager of names like , Grid, Commodore, Sinclair, Zilog (the chip), Apple2, HP ...
At this time 16 K, was huge, and the knowledge of Basic was required in order to be able to do something with your computer. It was a geek time. My first computer was a pocket one from Sharp (i hope that my father did not throw it to hell, because it's a collector, especially the 4 color pencil printer). I made some basics Basic software, like a soft to play alone to mastermind, and other basic equations.
This computer was more a toy than anything else ... but i was fun. It scared the hell out of my russian teacher, a white russian immigrate, that think that this stuff was magic
The first usefull generation of computer came with bureautic applications. Typewriting on computer was the first revolution for the average joe consumer.
The next revolution after bureautic use, come from graphic. But it take time to become professional, my brother who is a graphist, buyed an amiga 2000 : it was great, but useless for a professional work. This came later.
Internet was the next great things that happened in the PC world, and contribute much to the popularisation of PC in homes.
Now we are in the digital aera
What next ?
Apple paved the way, made it ALL happen. If not for Apple who knows where "personal computing" would be at now.
Who in this industry has continuously thought outside the box? I only see one company doing it. Apple creates it, others follow.
"In regards to Aquafire's points... I think it is incredibly daft to say if what you listed did not happen Microsoft would not be in the position they are in today.
Well you obviously didn't read my points clearly...
"when you keep calling Microsoft "Microshit" or "Micro$oft" it makes you look so incredibly snobbish, arrogant, bitter, and a whole host or other adjectives that are not intended to be complimentary. Let it
Actually quite the contrary...and even more Pc users are using these descriptions...its about their MS's bad business ethics...coercion.. driving competitors out of business..lying..etc etc etc...fear of the Open source world etc.
And finally a little history lesson from Woz himself won't go astray...
"When Apple offered a GUI interface the businessmen using Microsoft & typing in commands by hand all said that the Macintosh was just a toy...Then Gates brought out the Windows system based around the GUI...and all of a sudden the same businessmen flocked to buy it...you didn't hear anyone of them callling it ( the GUI interface ) a toy anymore. Personally, everytime I look at a windows machine I smile because I know that in a way they are all Apple machines..so you know..we were right all along "
As far as I am concerned..Apple "Popularised" the desk top computer...Microsoft on the other hand didn't so much popularize as "Monopolize" through restrictive Licencing practices...
And that's the BIG difference..Gates & his company are respected mainly out of fear & compliance..but they will never be truly loved in the same way that Apples are....
there are two ways of looking at it. Is M$ saying they invented the personal computer or personal computing?
Okay, the personal computer. This could be seen as the IBM creation called the "personal computer" which was a sad kind of low end hardware which was trying to grab a hold of the small expanding "home computing" market. IBM was big and lumbering at the time and could not adapt quickly enough to grow with emerging technologies. Once they got something up to speed it was already out of date. This is when they set up the "blue sky" division whose responsibility was to keep up with cutting edge technology. This was in 1979. These were the people behind IBM PC.
I can quote this. In 1981, I was performing work experience at IBM, and the guy who had been assigned to keep me busy, stated that it was IBM's goal to have a million IBM PCs on desktops around the world by the end of 1981. And they believed they could do it. And they did it.
He then handed me an RPG2 manual ant told me to learn it.
So, the term "PC" was really popularised by IBM. They invented the personal computer. But they did not invent the personal computing experience.
You could go back to talk about the apple ][, TRS 80, Commodore PET 2001, but the idea of personal computing where you could get your computer to do interesting stuff really (and not being a tech head) is a toss up between the Vic-20/Com-64, or the Apple }{.
All being said and done, I believe the Vic-20/Com-64 realy made computing accessable to the general public for the first time. A computer where you could plug something in or load it from tape and the program would run.
Then came the Amiga, Atari ST, TI, and Coleco?
But generally, we settle for second best. VHS vs Beta. NTSC vs TRNC, PC vs Mac.
So where does M$ fit in to any of this?
Dunno. They certainly didn't invent anything.
I remember their sad version of DOS. DR DOS was what you wanted if you had a PC. Good and reliable. MS DOS was often unreliable and piping didn't work too well.
What can M$ claim in the whole evolution of PCs? Windows 3.1, NT3.5?
What M$ can really claim tracks of land on is Windows 1. It was the step forward. It was amazingly cr4p, it was a ripoff, it mainly didn't work but it still was a step beyond DOS. And DR DOS didn't have anything. And this was at a point where IBM was pushing DOWN into the desktop.
So we got something that was slightly better to use than a miniframe on your desktop. And absolutely no one knew how to use them. Which was a shame 'cos they cost so much.
What M$ offered was a way for the tech heads to muscle their way into corporate identity and make themselves respectble. (I should know, I was one of them.) It used to be a joke if you knew how to use a PC.
Main/miniframe support people had the respect and the bucks.
So where does M$ fit in to any of this?
Dunno, but I've had fun reminiscing.
"...... Linux is only years away from securing the business world "fully and completely. "
Given M$'s adverse position to Open source Vs Apple's growing respect in that same enviroment, Apple stands to reap the harvest of it's courage..while M$ will slowly sink..
Actually I think it is already happening, but like the Titanic, ( because it is so huge ), M$ may not show it at first, but it is heading down....& within a decade M$ will be a shadow of its former glory days...
I can't wait.....
As for predicating MS dying... yeah, ok, that just make you sound as knowledgeable as PC zealot predicting the death of Apple.