Where's the equality?-The Glass Cellar

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  • Reply 61 of 66
    Quote:

    Originally posted by alcimedes

    who cares what the graduation percentages are. what are the working professional percentages?



    Those percentages were a response to trumptman's assertion that women tend to study liberal arts / humanities. If you want to know what the working professional percentages of men and women are, you might find these resources to be useful:



    http://www.google.com/



    http://www.alltheweb.com/







    It's weird to see how deeply in denial some of you are. The facts are out there. Over their careers, women make less money than men do for the same work. Women get promoted less.
  • Reply 62 of 66
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    when i checked on graduation rates i found this.



    Quote:

    With respect to their undergraduate experiences, women were more likely than men to major in certain fields, most notably education (18 percent vs. 6 percent) and health professions (10 percent vs. 4 percent). Men, in contrast, were more likely than women to major in business and management (26 percent vs. 19 percent) and engineering (12 percent vs. 2 percent).



    so what are your numbers from?



    http://nces.ed.gov/



    those are 2002 stats. do you have a source for your numbers?



    be careful when you say that people who disagree with you do so just because of denial, especially when you post numbers with no sources that are easily contradicted.
  • Reply 63 of 66
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,458member
    Better yet, from his own source...



    Quote:

    Even though women have made

    progress in entering occupations

    predominately held by men (especially

    executive and professional

    specialty occupations), the majority

    of women are still in traditional

    ?female? occupations.3 Women

    continue to be overrepresented in

    administrative support and service

    occupations and underrepresented in

    precision production, craft, and

    repair occupations, and the transportation

    and material moving occupations.

    For example, 79.3 percent

    of the 18.6 million people involved

    in administrative support

    (including clerical) were female,

    and 95.5 percent of the 859,000

    people who were employed as

    service workers in private households

    were female.



    As I said, and contended from post one, women are underrepresented in these "glass celler" fields, but they don't want those jobs so they don't count. They want office work.



    Also after examining the census data it does mention regular degrees and also has a section on "professional" degrees. However it doesn't have any notes as to what they consider profession so to me it is suspect. I think they likely add teachers (of which I am one) to that "professional" catagory which would again, be a liberal arts major and paid much less than a lawyer, engineer, doctor, etc. Especially a doctorate of education vs. medicine.



    Nick
  • Reply 64 of 66
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    They want office work.



    This is crap. Women want lots of jobs, not just safe and happy work. Some jobs, like driving a truck, are dominated by men already. The transition to 50/50 (or whatever numbers we'll hit) will take time.
  • Reply 65 of 66
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,458member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bunge

    This is crap. Women want lots of jobs, not just safe and happy work. Some jobs, like driving a truck, are dominated by men already. The transition to 50/50 (or whatever numbers we'll hit) will take time.



    bunge,



    I think you're overreacting. I think most men would prefer office work as well. However when it comes time to earn some real money they just have to seek something else if it isn't paying enough. I know a number of men who were at various times working clerical or service jobs and had to move on to something else not because they didn't like the work, but because they needed to get a job that paid better.



    Nick
  • Reply 66 of 66
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BR

    I'm calling bullshit on this. Please present facts that support this claim.



    Francine Blau has some papers that look at the wage gap adjusted for experience and education. Knock yourself out.





    Quote:

    Originally posted by alcimedes

    so what are your numbers from



    I was referencing graduate school programs, so its not surprising that you were unable to reconcile the figures by looking up information on undergrad majors.



    Graduate Management Admissions Council



    American Bar Association



    American Association of Engineering Societies



    American Medical Women's Association



    BusinessWeek Online



    US News





    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    As I said, and contended from post one, women are underrepresented in these "glass celler" fields, but they don't want those jobs so they don't count.



    I'm sure that women everywhere are very happy that you know what they do and don't want.



    As to the quote you provided...it's not quite clear to me what the point you are making is. The paragraph indicates that women do more clerical and domestic work than men. It does not support that they prefer this situation.



    Deciding to ignore facts because a definition of 'professional degree' is not conveniently provided seems a little petulant. If you believe I'm wrong, then support your assertions. Show me something that demonstrates that there is no income disparity between men and women with equal education and experience. One or two fields won't do...I want to see good evidence that there is equality in any and all jobs that can be performed equally well by both men and women.



    By the way, the California Postsecondary Education Commission has a glossary of terms here. It doesn't appear to offer a comprehensive list, but it does provide a definition of professional degrees (as opposed to regular masters degrees or bachelors degrees.
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