who cares what the graduation percentages are. what are the working professional percentages?
Those percentages were a response to trumptman's assertion that women tend to study liberal arts / humanities. If you want to know what the working professional percentages of men and women are, you might find these resources to be useful:
It's weird to see how deeply in denial some of you are. The facts are out there. Over their careers, women make less money than men do for the same work. Women get promoted less.
With respect to their undergraduate experiences, women were more likely than men to major in certain fields, most notably education (18 percent vs. 6 percent) and health professions (10 percent vs. 4 percent). Men, in contrast, were more likely than women to major in business and management (26 percent vs. 19 percent) and engineering (12 percent vs. 2 percent).
those are 2002 stats. do you have a source for your numbers?
be careful when you say that people who disagree with you do so just because of denial, especially when you post numbers with no sources that are easily contradicted.
As I said, and contended from post one, women are underrepresented in these "glass celler" fields, but they don't want those jobs so they don't count. They want office work.
Also after examining the census data it does mention regular degrees and also has a section on "professional" degrees. However it doesn't have any notes as to what they consider profession so to me it is suspect. I think they likely add teachers (of which I am one) to that "professional" catagory which would again, be a liberal arts major and paid much less than a lawyer, engineer, doctor, etc. Especially a doctorate of education vs. medicine.
This is crap. Women want lots of jobs, not just safe and happy work. Some jobs, like driving a truck, are dominated by men already. The transition to 50/50 (or whatever numbers we'll hit) will take time.
This is crap. Women want lots of jobs, not just safe and happy work. Some jobs, like driving a truck, are dominated by men already. The transition to 50/50 (or whatever numbers we'll hit) will take time.
bunge,
I think you're overreacting. I think most men would prefer office work as well. However when it comes time to earn some real money they just have to seek something else if it isn't paying enough. I know a number of men who were at various times working clerical or service jobs and had to move on to something else not because they didn't like the work, but because they needed to get a job that paid better.
I'm calling bullshit on this. Please present facts that support this claim.
Francine Blau has some papers that look at the wage gap adjusted for experience and education. Knock yourself out.
Quote:
Originally posted by alcimedes
so what are your numbers from
I was referencing graduate school programs, so its not surprising that you were unable to reconcile the figures by looking up information on undergrad majors.
As I said, and contended from post one, women are underrepresented in these "glass celler" fields, but they don't want those jobs so they don't count.
I'm sure that women everywhere are very happy that you know what they do and don't want.
As to the quote you provided...it's not quite clear to me what the point you are making is. The paragraph indicates that women do more clerical and domestic work than men. It does not support that they prefer this situation.
Deciding to ignore facts because a definition of 'professional degree' is not conveniently provided seems a little petulant. If you believe I'm wrong, then support your assertions. Show me something that demonstrates that there is no income disparity between men and women with equal education and experience. One or two fields won't do...I want to see good evidence that there is equality in any and all jobs that can be performed equally well by both men and women.
By the way, the California Postsecondary Education Commission has a glossary of terms here. It doesn't appear to offer a comprehensive list, but it does provide a definition of professional degrees (as opposed to regular masters degrees or bachelors degrees.
Comments
Originally posted by alcimedes
who cares what the graduation percentages are. what are the working professional percentages?
Those percentages were a response to trumptman's assertion that women tend to study liberal arts / humanities. If you want to know what the working professional percentages of men and women are, you might find these resources to be useful:
http://www.google.com/
http://www.alltheweb.com/
It's weird to see how deeply in denial some of you are. The facts are out there. Over their careers, women make less money than men do for the same work. Women get promoted less.
With respect to their undergraduate experiences, women were more likely than men to major in certain fields, most notably education (18 percent vs. 6 percent) and health professions (10 percent vs. 4 percent). Men, in contrast, were more likely than women to major in business and management (26 percent vs. 19 percent) and engineering (12 percent vs. 2 percent).
so what are your numbers from?
http://nces.ed.gov/
those are 2002 stats. do you have a source for your numbers?
be careful when you say that people who disagree with you do so just because of denial, especially when you post numbers with no sources that are easily contradicted.
Even though women have made
progress in entering occupations
predominately held by men (especially
executive and professional
specialty occupations), the majority
of women are still in traditional
?female? occupations.3 Women
continue to be overrepresented in
administrative support and service
occupations and underrepresented in
precision production, craft, and
repair occupations, and the transportation
and material moving occupations.
For example, 79.3 percent
of the 18.6 million people involved
in administrative support
(including clerical) were female,
and 95.5 percent of the 859,000
people who were employed as
service workers in private households
were female.
As I said, and contended from post one, women are underrepresented in these "glass celler" fields, but they don't want those jobs so they don't count. They want office work.
Also after examining the census data it does mention regular degrees and also has a section on "professional" degrees. However it doesn't have any notes as to what they consider profession so to me it is suspect. I think they likely add teachers (of which I am one) to that "professional" catagory which would again, be a liberal arts major and paid much less than a lawyer, engineer, doctor, etc. Especially a doctorate of education vs. medicine.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
They want office work.
This is crap. Women want lots of jobs, not just safe and happy work. Some jobs, like driving a truck, are dominated by men already. The transition to 50/50 (or whatever numbers we'll hit) will take time.
Originally posted by bunge
This is crap. Women want lots of jobs, not just safe and happy work. Some jobs, like driving a truck, are dominated by men already. The transition to 50/50 (or whatever numbers we'll hit) will take time.
bunge,
I think you're overreacting. I think most men would prefer office work as well. However when it comes time to earn some real money they just have to seek something else if it isn't paying enough. I know a number of men who were at various times working clerical or service jobs and had to move on to something else not because they didn't like the work, but because they needed to get a job that paid better.
Nick
Originally posted by BR
I'm calling bullshit on this. Please present facts that support this claim.
Francine Blau has some papers that look at the wage gap adjusted for experience and education. Knock yourself out.
Originally posted by alcimedes
so what are your numbers from
I was referencing graduate school programs, so its not surprising that you were unable to reconcile the figures by looking up information on undergrad majors.
Graduate Management Admissions Council
American Bar Association
American Association of Engineering Societies
American Medical Women's Association
BusinessWeek Online
US News
Originally posted by trumptman
As I said, and contended from post one, women are underrepresented in these "glass celler" fields, but they don't want those jobs so they don't count.
I'm sure that women everywhere are very happy that you know what they do and don't want.
As to the quote you provided...it's not quite clear to me what the point you are making is. The paragraph indicates that women do more clerical and domestic work than men. It does not support that they prefer this situation.
Deciding to ignore facts because a definition of 'professional degree' is not conveniently provided seems a little petulant. If you believe I'm wrong, then support your assertions. Show me something that demonstrates that there is no income disparity between men and women with equal education and experience. One or two fields won't do...I want to see good evidence that there is equality in any and all jobs that can be performed equally well by both men and women.
By the way, the California Postsecondary Education Commission has a glossary of terms here. It doesn't appear to offer a comprehensive list, but it does provide a definition of professional degrees (as opposed to regular masters degrees or bachelors degrees.