Rampant PDA Speculation: Apple P800
Ok, I'm starting to get the idea that my dreams of a pure Apple PDA will go unfulfilled 
But maybe I'm starting to see why...
Steve has been quoted again as saying the PDA market will shrink further due to many of the functions of PDAs being handled by Smart phones.
Well I want something that has all the usual PDA stuff (calendar, contacts, web, email, handwriting recognition etc) but I would also like it to display photos, video clips, office files and PDFs. Throw a digital camera (even a poor quality one; I have a good one, I just want something I'll always have with me) and a phone into the bargain and I'll be very happy indeed.
But I just can't see Apple making a phone.
It seems Sony Ericsson already have something that does all these in the pipeline, the <a href="http://www.sonyericsson.com/P800/"; target="_blank">P800</a>, due out in the next few months. It's bluetooth and runs syncML, so iSync compatibility should be a cert and it runs Symbian OS7.
So the point I'm throwing out for your speculation goodness is...
I presume the Symbian OS is easily skinable, the P800 will be running the Sony Ericsson style GUI. What are the chances of Apple and Sony Ericsson bringing out an Apple badged version with an Aqua style GUI?
I'm going to be getting one of these as soon as they come out, and I'm guessing so will a lot of Mac users, I'd love for it to have an Apple feel!
[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: McBear ]</p>
But maybe I'm starting to see why...
Steve has been quoted again as saying the PDA market will shrink further due to many of the functions of PDAs being handled by Smart phones.
Well I want something that has all the usual PDA stuff (calendar, contacts, web, email, handwriting recognition etc) but I would also like it to display photos, video clips, office files and PDFs. Throw a digital camera (even a poor quality one; I have a good one, I just want something I'll always have with me) and a phone into the bargain and I'll be very happy indeed.
But I just can't see Apple making a phone.
It seems Sony Ericsson already have something that does all these in the pipeline, the <a href="http://www.sonyericsson.com/P800/"; target="_blank">P800</a>, due out in the next few months. It's bluetooth and runs syncML, so iSync compatibility should be a cert and it runs Symbian OS7.
So the point I'm throwing out for your speculation goodness is...
I presume the Symbian OS is easily skinable, the P800 will be running the Sony Ericsson style GUI. What are the chances of Apple and Sony Ericsson bringing out an Apple badged version with an Aqua style GUI?
I'm going to be getting one of these as soon as they come out, and I'm guessing so will a lot of Mac users, I'd love for it to have an Apple feel!
[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: McBear ]</p>
Comments
First, Apple wants their devices to be on the net nearly all of the time. While cellular would allow this, I think it's still too expensive to fully implement. Remember that Apple wants to give users a pleasant experience and not a watered down one.
Second of all, I believe Apple wants to also use this device to bridge the gap with Macs to keep them online. Maybe the device will have cellular built in, but I'm seeing a handheld device that connects to some sort of Apple network (.mac service?) that allows you a limited internet connection from your PowerBook/iBook to check mac.com email, sync, etc.
I believe that there is still something coming from Apple, despite what Jobs says. Remember that Jobs was also the one that said the Newton would have a Mac OS based successor in 1999 and that Apple has a great partnership with Microsoft.
<strong>Newton would have a Mac OS based successor in 1999</strong><hr></blockquote>
He said that Apple would be renewing it's commitment to consumer mobile computing [with the iBook] in 1999. Dig up the press release.
But yeah, at the keynote it was all about mobile phones, with just a "oh yeah and while we were at it we threw in Palm support" throwaway.
Barto
<a href="http://www.apple.com/pr/library/1998/feb/27newton.html"; target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/pr/library/1998/feb/27newton.html</a>;
You can't be serious in comparing an eMate with the iBook. An eMate was a subnotebook which had a price point of well under $1000 and featured touchscreen support.
Yes, the iBook is a Mac OS device, but it was not what was referred to in the press release. When asked for clarification, Apple (not Jobs) said that they were in the same market as the Newton but needed to reinvent the device for the Mac OS. Obviously, that hasn't happened (yet), despite what might have been a year ago.
People may not realise that Newton & PocketPC use the same handwriting recognition software. Apples works better, but it's the same base.
Jobs killed the Newton and Newton Inc at the same time MS entered into an agreement. PocketPC was released.
Apple is announcing product after product that points to a handheld device - iCal, Addressbook, iSync, Rendezvouz - oh and Ink.
Last year it was nearly crazy to think they would, now it would be crazy to say they won't. Prices are dropping fast and a 500Mhz G4 based device could be $850 now.
Forget Palm type PDAs, think of Newtons had they continued to evolve. Think 9" touch screen, 20Gb HD, 1 USB, 1 Firewire, Ethernet, Airport - ie, nothing which isn't an Apple commodity.
All it needs is Jaguar and no MS agreement.
<strong>I presume the Symbian OS is easily skinable, the P800 will be running the Sony Ericsson style GUI. What are the chances of Apple and Sony Ericsson bringing out an Apple badged version with an Aqua style GUI?</strong><hr></blockquote>
For various reasons I would have heard about this if this was in the pipeline, and was being developed in Sverige (which is where SE terminals are knocked together).
It's possible that the iPod approach could be taken (get your OS from here, your radio from there, your input technology from the other place, and knock them together in a shed in Cupertino).
I think it likely that this is going to happen.
Does that help?
Anyway, my p800 should be coming this week ... so I'll be able to tell you about that device at least soon ...
[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Harald ]</p>
<strong>
It's possible that the iPod approach could be taken (get your OS from here, your radio from there, your input technology from the other place, and knock them together in a shed in Cupertino).
I think it likely that this is going to happen.
Does that help?
Anyway, my p800 should be coming this week ... so I'll be able to tell you about that device at least soon ...
]</strong><hr></blockquote>
It certainly intrigues me; worth holding off on the P800 purchase when it comes out do you think?
Give us a full report when you get yours, I'd especially like to see the quality of the photos, and how good the handwritting recognition is!
<strong>You can't be serious in comparing an eMate with the iBook. An eMate was a subnotebook which had a price point of well under $1000 and featured touchscreen support.
Yes, the iBook is a Mac OS device, but it was not what was referred to in the press release. When asked for clarification, Apple (not Jobs) said that they were in the same market as the Newton but needed to reinvent the device for the Mac OS. Obviously, that hasn't happened (yet), despite what might have been a year ago.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm sure that the Almighty Steve was talking about the iBook with "Apple is committed to affordable mobile computing, pioneered by the eMate, and will be serving this market with Mac OS-based products beginning in 1999."
Remember, Apple has culled low-priced iMacs, culled the Cube (and cube tech pioneered the iMac G4)... Apple has decided that a lot of products have been wrongly targeted, and I think that the eMate was one of those. Now, Apple believes that at $1200 iBook better servers the consumer than a crappy <$1000 machine possibly could.
Your vision might be different, but thinking that that PR refered to anything other than the iBook is denial.
Barto
We here in Canada get it in a few weeks to a month (2 days after it goes GA in the UK)
At around $1400 CDN it's a very expensive phone, but look what you get:
- great GPRS cell phone - $400
- Colour palm like device - $500
- Blutooth (module)- $150
- 640x480 camera - $250
- MP3 player - $200
That's $1500 for anything else (all $$ CDN) and that makes it a decent deal
I've heard this phone will set the standard for all smart phones....
now how do I get work to buy me one....
[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: JasonPP ]</p>
Ink is not the same as Rosetta. Similar, but not the same. Also remember that Apple also now has Bluetooth and .mac services. What if the service was integrated like eWorld was?
<strong>The Sony Ericsson p800 is the best smartphone in the world. - according to those who compared it to to others at CeBit.
We here in Canada get it in a few weeks to a month (2 days after it goes GA in the UK)
At around $1400 CDN it's a very expensive phone, but look what you get:
- great GPRS cell phone - $400
- Colour palm like device - $500
- Blutooth (module)- $150
- 640x480 camera - $250
- MP3 player - $200
That's $1500 for anything else (all $$ CDN) and that makes it a decent deal
I've heard this phone will set the standard for all smart phones....
now how do I get work to buy me one....
[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: JasonPP ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Like most integrated devices it's not as great as it might sound on paper.
MP3 player? How much storage? Answer not much = crap MP3 player.
Camera? 640x480 and a tiny little lense. Also crap, Not even worth 150 Canadian.
Bluetooth module? Think 80 (Canadian) 50 (American) Not 150/100 (Can/US) Verdict? Overpriced.
All unneccessary frivolity. Only the PDA and the GPRS phone have any reason to live together, and you could supply those for 600-700 Canadian.
Edit, bluetooth of course fits this PDA-phone, but the chips themselves cost less than $10 to include in a device (don't think of the price of a standalone module).
In 3 years, such a phone won't be worth more than 300 Canadian. Waste of money.
[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
<strong>
It certainly intrigues me; worth holding off on the P800 purchase when it comes out do you think?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Should make it clear that I'm just speculating about Apple here. On the SE side of things it's a bit different ...
[quote] <strong>
Give us a full report when you get yours, I'd especially like to see the quality of the photos, and how good the handwritting recognition is!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sure bloody.
<strong>
Should make it clear that I'm just speculating about Apple here. On the SE side of things it's a bit different ...</strong><hr></blockquote>
I wouldn't have been able to wait anyway, need a new phone and the P800, shiny Apple logo or not, will fit the bill too nicely to be patient!
<strong>
I wouldn't have been able to wait anyway, need a new phone and the P800, shiny Apple logo or not, will fit the bill too nicely to be patient!</strong><hr></blockquote>
I've always said that Ericsson were the Apple, Nokia the MS of cellular. Right down to the pre-announcement spoiler tactics and the inferior technology that the majority of the world loves.
The p800 is simply ridiculously good.
It is a sweet looking piece of kit :cool: :
It does not have an USB port but built in infrared and Bluetooth. Interestingly the UI is called 'Quartz'
<strong> It does not have an USB port but built in infrared and Bluetooth. Interestingly the UI is called 'Quartz'
I also saw somewhere (it may be in that Register article) mention of a genie type effect in the interface.
That, and the high profile of SE in the keynote were what got me thinking.
And while looking at screenshots of the GUI I saw an example email, to one of the human interface people I think, that had an attachement called "aqua.gif" but I think that's just me getting over excited
[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: McBear ]</p>
<strong> Interestingly the UI is called 'Quartz'
Draw no inference from the "Quartz" thing. There's no link.
Nothing I've heard from Sweden says that Apple and Eric are working on something. If they are it's only at the corporate intent level. I think it much more likely that AT THIS STAGE they're just testing the water / approaching strategy by getting Apple kit to work well with standards-based comms equipment.
The good thing about GSM is that it's a standard. As is SynchML, as is Bluetooth etc. etc. Apple could build a mobile comms device ...
For Pixo's "PortalPlayer OS" read "Symbian"
Radio transciever from Ericsson.
Industrial Design from Ives.
Text entry component from Ink.
Bluetooth from just about anyone.
That's not so hard.
For it to seriously succeed is a political and arm-twisting endeavour in terms of retail and network clout. Major issues.
[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Harald ]</p>
Sure if you like palms and pocketPCs you'll love both phones. the camera takes suprisingly good pictures, and beeing always online with GPRS is really different from the "palm-experience".
However I threw away my handspring Prism over a year ago, and have finally decided to go for the T68i (unless you have some strong recomandations against it Harald). The 100% mac support tipped the scales.
It is also so small and beautiful. The nokia was just to big.
Instead of the stupid attachable camera, I'll go for the 2 megapixle Minolta with the internal 3X zoom. its smaller than the iPod.
In a perfect world this camera would also have bluetooth for direct contact with the phone or my laptop, but HELL i'll probably save a lot of money NOT taking late-night bar pictures at saturday nights and mailing them to all my friends.
<strong>I threw away my handspring Prism over a year ago, and have finally decided to go for the T68i (unless you have some strong recomandations against it Harald). </strong><hr></blockquote>
The t68i is simply the best phone I have ever had or ever used. Recommended soooo highly.
I totally agree with you New about the lunkiness of some devices ... like the R380 ... a real great phone but too big, and Moto's SmartPhone too is a REAL BEAST.
One can always take digital photographs, upload them via a computer (and via iPhoto) and download them to a phone either by BT or GPRS, so the built-in camera gets redundant. I have an Espion on my keyring (one of those tiny tiny cameras) for snaps and fun, and a Nikon for "serious" photography. I've not bothered with the Communicam for the t68.
The p800 isn't such a beast actually:
T68i 100 x 48 x 20
P800 117 x 59 x 27
... actually thinner then the T68 (which is tiny) ...