I thinks it is more to do with the lack of facts and evidence - it's just fun speculation.
Good point. As I said in the beginning, it's like talking about the matrix (which inevitably happened) or star wars. No one gets indignant about someone suggesting that they are still in the matrix, or neo is a program, or trinity has some lesbian appeal going for her.
As I said in the beginning, however, it has been my experience that most Xians I run into take great acception to the discontinuous timeline between heaven and earth idea. Must have been a non-representative sample since no one seems to have a big problem with it here.
Going out on a limb, I would say that it is actually a more sensible conception of heaven (and hell). When you get to heaven, what better than to have all your loved ones and descendents already there. Same for hell, what worse than to see your loved ones tortured before you.
Of course, this raises a dilema for both God and the devil. If the devil shows you your loved ones being tortured then you might infer that the ones you don't see are safe in heaven. The devil being the big deceiver, however, he/she/it (lets just use "heshit" from now on) could create the illusion of your loved ones suffering. God, OTOH, cannot deceive, so if you notice the absence of your loved ones in heaven you can be pretty sure they are in hell and then, presumably, you'd be sad (I know I would).
Nordstradamus, were you raised Catholic? Reason I ask are your references to hell and the devil. It belies your otherwise intellectual and erudite presentation of fact, fantasy, and speculations. Just curious...
Nordstradamus, were you raised Catholic? Reason I ask are your references to hell and the devil. It belies your otherwise intellectual and erudite presentation of fact, fantasy, and speculations. Just curious...
Why yes I was, although I have to say that the devil and hell weren't really brought up that much in either my home or the church. In retrospect, I think this was quite deliberate as an exploration of these concepts really does weaken the church's position. Of course, as my Dad relates his childhood catholic school experiences, it seems evident that it was a popular subject not too long ago. Then, in his school at least, they would constantly remind students that it was really very easy to go to hell. Miss church on Sunday? Use the Lord's name in vain? Hands in your pockets? Straight to hell.
In my own experience I've found there to be an equal number of "hell fire and damnation" types among catholics, southern baptists, muslims, etc... IMO, most people have some innate sense of decency that prevents them from accepting the idea of a draconian diety, but they tend to stick with their church for social reasons. I think what is scary, however, is that like political parties the institution tends to cultivate the idealogues into positions of power and most of the more rational followers give money "to the church" despite their objections to policy.
Comments
Originally posted by xenu
I thinks it is more to do with the lack of facts and evidence - it's just fun speculation.
Root word Latin : specular...to mirror..to reflect...
Ps olde journalists motto.
" Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story "
Originally posted by xenu
I thinks it is more to do with the lack of facts and evidence - it's just fun speculation.
Good point. As I said in the beginning, it's like talking about the matrix (which inevitably happened) or star wars. No one gets indignant about someone suggesting that they are still in the matrix, or neo is a program, or trinity has some lesbian appeal going for her.
As I said in the beginning, however, it has been my experience that most Xians I run into take great acception to the discontinuous timeline between heaven and earth idea. Must have been a non-representative sample since no one seems to have a big problem with it here.
Going out on a limb, I would say that it is actually a more sensible conception of heaven (and hell). When you get to heaven, what better than to have all your loved ones and descendents already there. Same for hell, what worse than to see your loved ones tortured before you.
Of course, this raises a dilema for both God and the devil. If the devil shows you your loved ones being tortured then you might infer that the ones you don't see are safe in heaven. The devil being the big deceiver, however, he/she/it (lets just use "heshit" from now on) could create the illusion of your loved ones suffering. God, OTOH, cannot deceive, so if you notice the absence of your loved ones in heaven you can be pretty sure they are in hell and then, presumably, you'd be sad (I know I would).
Originally posted by meilleure ami
Nordstradamus, were you raised Catholic? Reason I ask are your references to hell and the devil. It belies your otherwise intellectual and erudite presentation of fact, fantasy, and speculations. Just curious...
Why yes I was, although I have to say that the devil and hell weren't really brought up that much in either my home or the church. In retrospect, I think this was quite deliberate as an exploration of these concepts really does weaken the church's position. Of course, as my Dad relates his childhood catholic school experiences, it seems evident that it was a popular subject not too long ago. Then, in his school at least, they would constantly remind students that it was really very easy to go to hell. Miss church on Sunday? Use the Lord's name in vain? Hands in your pockets? Straight to hell.
In my own experience I've found there to be an equal number of "hell fire and damnation" types among catholics, southern baptists, muslims, etc... IMO, most people have some innate sense of decency that prevents them from accepting the idea of a draconian diety, but they tend to stick with their church for social reasons. I think what is scary, however, is that like political parties the institution tends to cultivate the idealogues into positions of power and most of the more rational followers give money "to the church" despite their objections to policy.