I am not a graphic designer, but do know people whi have been in the profession for years. They indicate tome that the entire advertising industry would not be able to function without Mac apps. Is this true?
I was thinking about getting a laptop, probably an iBook G4 due to my budget.
What kind of Mac do you guys think I should get? I'll be doing word processing, listenging to music, internet surfing, graphic & web design on it. Minimal games (Alpha Centauri came out in 1998 so I'm not too worried!)
Get something with a bigger / higher resolution screen. 1024x768 will be cramped if you are doing graphics work. 1024x768 is cramped if you're trying to do any serious work in any field.
Maybe a PowerMac G4? If you order one from the online Apple Store, you can click on the education link and get a discount. It's in the same price range as the iBook, but you won't be restricted by screen size since you can attach whatever screen you want to it, plus it will be faster and more expandable than a laptop.
If you absolutely must have a portable, get the 15" PowerBook. You will need the extra screen space it gives you, plus it will also be faster than the iBook. (even if the CPU is the same speed)
If you can stretch the budget a bit, I'd get the Dual 1.8 G5. On the educational store, you can get it for $2119 if you downgrade the Super Drive to a Combo Drive. That would be a great machine, but it is rather pricey. It is what I would buy if I was buying a computer right now.
I regularly interview candidates - so I can say this with absolute authority (and there aren't many topics on AppleInsider where I can claim that).
It's quite simple really, you can argue about specs and the various platforms till you're blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is that when you get your qualification and look for your first job you'll find that your employability will be far greater if you have a half decent knowledge of Macs, and how the major software packages function on the Mac platform.
Don't make the common mistake of assuming you'll get a half decent knowledge of Macs just by using the machines at your college/uni. It's the people who have Macs at home, and stay up until the wee small hours of the morning that make it in the graphic design industry.
The industry uses Macs, because they are better that anything else out there at the moment. That's by the by. If you go to an employer, without excellent Mac experience, they're not going to employ you. I guarantee that. A knowledge of Macs is a given, like being able to read. The employer expects you to be able to contribute to his/her bottom line immediately. Nobody's going to pay you a wage to sit there and learn what you should have learnt at college/uni. Not when there are five hundred other students out there who have Mac experience.
Tell your folks that graphic design is a cut throat business - some of the really well known studios, who are renowned for turning out excellent work on a regular basis, and who could trounce my creativity with a slight of hand, are struggling to stay afloat at the moment - nobody can afford to carry deadwood at the moment.
So get yourself a Mac, and lock yourself in your room. It's really important to experiment whilst you're at college/uni (no that's not what I mean) but you want to be able to show potential employers that you are able to produce a range of work - and you simply won't be able to experiment once you have a real job. Make sure there are some commercially viable pieces in your portfolio as well.
But, the most important advice I can give you, if you want to be a creative (a designer), rather than a artworker or developer, is to invest in your brain. Learn about 'conceptual' graphic design - graphic design is more about a fecked up way of looking at things rather than trying to make things look good.
Learn how to develop the ideas that will look good, rather than learning how to make an idea look good. You can't polish a turd. First comes the thought - the smile in the mind as Alan Fletcher would say - then comes the graphics. You'll find it easier to present your work to clients if you can explain your thoughts behind the visual, your reasons for doing things the way you have - rather than saying "I picked that typeface because it's cool". If your work is really good, you won't have to explain it at all. People will just sit in wonder.
Out of every hundred candidates that I've interviewed, only one will have realised this, and really understood it. A good lecturer will have instilled these values, and some of the candidates will be able talk the talk, but you can see right through them, and realise that they don't really get it at all.
Also learn about unusual production processes and cool materials. Learn all the rules so you can understand how best to break them. Graphic Design is about a collection of skills that don't sit well together and can't really be tought. You'll probably find that your college/uni course is more about nurturing the skills you have already picked up in life, than teaching you new ones. You'll realise that you've looked at things differently from other people all your life - which is good, and you'll be able to develop that trait.
Ultimately the Mac is just a tool, but if you don't know how to use that tool, you'll never get a job with real prospects.
You would be hard pressed to find a print shop using OSX let alone InDesign.
you don't see my point do you ?
pdf is the ticket to go... this is what you give to you printer or else. And the best tool to do it is Indy. Of course you can do it in Quark or even Publisher or Word (scary ), but be prepared to be a whole lot less productive.
pdf is the ticket to go... this is what you give to you printer or else. And the best tool to do it is Indy. Of course you can do it in Quark or even Publisher or Word (scary ), but be prepared to be a whole lot less productive.
I'd have to agree. InDesign is (hopefully) the future. We ditched Quark as soon as 2.0 was released, and we haven't looked back. We use it as it came in the box - no extensions or tweaks and - touch wood - we haven't had a single problem, every job has printed perfectly. And sending clients pdfs of proofs is a cinch.
I couldn't go back to Quark - everything's much more complicated and you have to use work arounds for every damn thing.
but be prepared to be a whole lot less productive.
I love InDesign - and I use it exclusively. But I work for myself. If you are looking for a job in pre-press, you are going to need to know Quark.
If you don't believe me, take a look at the Job listings on the internet and trade magazines. Quark training is still what everyone wants. I can't believe it myself - but that seems the way it is right now. Just because InDesign came on the scene, doesn't mean everyone threw out their copies of Quark. The majority of jobs are done in Quark. The printing industry is 10 years behind. I've seen shops that still use CRT iMacs.
How would you feel if you told this kid to forget about Quark and just learn InDesign ... 8 months from now he goes for his first job interview, and he's asked if he knows Quark? What's he going to say ... PDF is the ticket?
How would you feel if you told this kid to forget about Quark and just learn InDesign ... 8 months from now he goes for his first job interview, and he's asked if he knows Quark? What's he going to say ... PDF is the ticket?
You made a very solid point.
But one thing remain... how much is the cost of XPress for a student ?
I don't know if it's better for his finance (or the one of his parents) to buy Adobe Creative Suite or XPress alone. This is important too, not everyone as deep pocket. So about using InDesign vs XPress... the way to do page layout is pretty much the same in the two software (using boxes) and a plus for InDesign is that you can assign in the preferences to use Xpress shortcuts ! Wonderful world isn't it ?
From Apple Store, the cost of a G5 1.6 with 1Gb RAM, no screen + CS Standard + Studio MX: $3824. The same with XPress, CS Premium (for Photoshop and Illustrator) and MX : $4724
Pretty high isn't it ? This of course are not student price.
So if money is not really a problem go for the full enchilada !
Edit : can you produce PDF with Xpress 6 without having Acrobat ?
Edit : In the real world of printing, it's true that a lot of people still use old G3 with OS 9, Photoshop 5.5, Illustrator 7 and XPress 4...
I'm on a $2,000 USD budget (roughly, I could probably go $100 over) -- that includes the computer and the software, and I cannot get a discount from Apple for the computer because my school's pupils are not elgible. So, I am just focusing on the hardware at the moment.
I am definetly going to get a $200 sound system from Harman Kardon (the Soundsticks), and 512 mg of RAM... Definetly not a Power Mac G5.
I was thinking about an eMac, then I'd probably also be able to afford some software with it too, or perhaps an iPod.
Please do yourself a favor and buy the G5 1.6. You can have one without SuperDrive and Modem for $1570. Get yourself 2 stick of 512 MB RAM for $180 (you will need them a lot) and a screen (for exemple: Mitsubishi Diamond Plus 74 (17" CRT) - Black $189.00) you will be set for $1939... you will not regret it.
You still can had a SuperDrive later and buy some other stuff like your Soundsticks...when you will have some more cash.
I'm on a $2,000 USD budget (roughly, I could probably go $100 over) -- that includes the computer and the software, and I cannot get a discount from Apple for the computer because my school's pupils are not elgible. So, I am just focusing on the hardware at the moment.
I am definetly going to get a $200 sound system from Harman Kardon (the Soundsticks), and 512 mg of RAM... Definetly not a Power Mac G5.
I was thinking about an eMac, then I'd probably also be able to afford some software with it too, or perhaps an iPod.
Any further suggestions?
If not the G5 1.6 than definitely the dual G4 1.25ghz. Both awesome computers. I would recommend the G5, but steer clear of the eMac. The eMac is a wonderful computer, but not for heavy graphic design use.
Comments
See a huge jump in the number of exasperated graphic designers? Without a doubt.
Originally posted by Sapper46123
I was thinking about getting a laptop, probably an iBook G4 due to my budget.
What kind of Mac do you guys think I should get? I'll be doing word processing, listenging to music, internet surfing, graphic & web design on it. Minimal games (Alpha Centauri came out in 1998 so I'm not too worried!)
Get something with a bigger / higher resolution screen. 1024x768 will be cramped if you are doing graphics work. 1024x768 is cramped if you're trying to do any serious work in any field.
Maybe a PowerMac G4? If you order one from the online Apple Store, you can click on the education link and get a discount. It's in the same price range as the iBook, but you won't be restricted by screen size since you can attach whatever screen you want to it, plus it will be faster and more expandable than a laptop.
If you absolutely must have a portable, get the 15" PowerBook. You will need the extra screen space it gives you, plus it will also be faster than the iBook. (even if the CPU is the same speed)
If you can stretch the budget a bit, I'd get the Dual 1.8 G5. On the educational store, you can get it for $2119 if you downgrade the Super Drive to a Combo Drive. That would be a great machine, but it is rather pricey. It is what I would buy if I was buying a computer right now.
I regularly interview candidates - so I can say this with absolute authority (and there aren't many topics on AppleInsider where I can claim that).
It's quite simple really, you can argue about specs and the various platforms till you're blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is that when you get your qualification and look for your first job you'll find that your employability will be far greater if you have a half decent knowledge of Macs, and how the major software packages function on the Mac platform.
Don't make the common mistake of assuming you'll get a half decent knowledge of Macs just by using the machines at your college/uni. It's the people who have Macs at home, and stay up until the wee small hours of the morning that make it in the graphic design industry.
The industry uses Macs, because they are better that anything else out there at the moment. That's by the by. If you go to an employer, without excellent Mac experience, they're not going to employ you. I guarantee that. A knowledge of Macs is a given, like being able to read. The employer expects you to be able to contribute to his/her bottom line immediately. Nobody's going to pay you a wage to sit there and learn what you should have learnt at college/uni. Not when there are five hundred other students out there who have Mac experience.
Tell your folks that graphic design is a cut throat business - some of the really well known studios, who are renowned for turning out excellent work on a regular basis, and who could trounce my creativity with a slight of hand, are struggling to stay afloat at the moment - nobody can afford to carry deadwood at the moment.
So get yourself a Mac, and lock yourself in your room. It's really important to experiment whilst you're at college/uni (no that's not what I mean) but you want to be able to show potential employers that you are able to produce a range of work - and you simply won't be able to experiment once you have a real job. Make sure there are some commercially viable pieces in your portfolio as well.
But, the most important advice I can give you, if you want to be a creative (a designer), rather than a artworker or developer, is to invest in your brain. Learn about 'conceptual' graphic design - graphic design is more about a fecked up way of looking at things rather than trying to make things look good.
Learn how to develop the ideas that will look good, rather than learning how to make an idea look good. You can't polish a turd. First comes the thought - the smile in the mind as Alan Fletcher would say - then comes the graphics. You'll find it easier to present your work to clients if you can explain your thoughts behind the visual, your reasons for doing things the way you have - rather than saying "I picked that typeface because it's cool". If your work is really good, you won't have to explain it at all. People will just sit in wonder.
Out of every hundred candidates that I've interviewed, only one will have realised this, and really understood it. A good lecturer will have instilled these values, and some of the candidates will be able talk the talk, but you can see right through them, and realise that they don't really get it at all.
Also learn about unusual production processes and cool materials. Learn all the rules so you can understand how best to break them. Graphic Design is about a collection of skills that don't sit well together and can't really be tought. You'll probably find that your college/uni course is more about nurturing the skills you have already picked up in life, than teaching you new ones. You'll realise that you've looked at things differently from other people all your life - which is good, and you'll be able to develop that trait.
Ultimately the Mac is just a tool, but if you don't know how to use that tool, you'll never get a job with real prospects.
Good luck...
Originally posted by the cool gut
You would be hard pressed to find a print shop using OSX let alone InDesign.
you don't see my point do you ?
pdf is the ticket to go... this is what you give to you printer or else. And the best tool to do it is Indy. Of course you can do it in Quark or even Publisher or Word (scary
Originally posted by jeromba
you don't see my point do you ?
pdf is the ticket to go... this is what you give to you printer or else. And the best tool to do it is Indy. Of course you can do it in Quark or even Publisher or Word (scary
I'd have to agree. InDesign is (hopefully) the future. We ditched Quark as soon as 2.0 was released, and we haven't looked back. We use it as it came in the box - no extensions or tweaks and - touch wood - we haven't had a single problem, every job has printed perfectly. And sending clients pdfs of proofs is a cinch.
I couldn't go back to Quark - everything's much more complicated and you have to use work arounds for every damn thing.
There's no going back.
Originally posted by jeromba
but be prepared to be a whole lot less productive.
I love InDesign - and I use it exclusively. But I work for myself. If you are looking for a job in pre-press, you are going to need to know Quark.
If you don't believe me, take a look at the Job listings on the internet and trade magazines. Quark training is still what everyone wants. I can't believe it myself - but that seems the way it is right now. Just because InDesign came on the scene, doesn't mean everyone threw out their copies of Quark. The majority of jobs are done in Quark. The printing industry is 10 years behind. I've seen shops that still use CRT iMacs.
How would you feel if you told this kid to forget about Quark and just learn InDesign ... 8 months from now he goes for his first job interview, and he's asked if he knows Quark? What's he going to say ... PDF is the ticket?
Originally posted by the cool gut
How would you feel if you told this kid to forget about Quark and just learn InDesign ... 8 months from now he goes for his first job interview, and he's asked if he knows Quark? What's he going to say ... PDF is the ticket?
You made a very solid point.
But one thing remain... how much is the cost of XPress for a student ?
I don't know if it's better for his finance (or the one of his parents) to buy Adobe Creative Suite or XPress alone. This is important too, not everyone as deep pocket. So about using InDesign vs XPress... the way to do page layout is pretty much the same in the two software (using boxes) and a plus for InDesign is that you can assign in the preferences to use Xpress shortcuts ! Wonderful world isn't it ?
From Apple Store, the cost of a G5 1.6 with 1Gb RAM, no screen + CS Standard + Studio MX: $3824. The same with XPress, CS Premium (for Photoshop and Illustrator) and MX : $4724
Pretty high isn't it ? This of course are not student price.
So if money is not really a problem go for the full enchilada !
Edit : can you produce PDF with Xpress 6 without having Acrobat ?
Edit : In the real world of printing, it's true that a lot of people still use old G3 with OS 9, Photoshop 5.5, Illustrator 7 and XPress 4...
I am definetly going to get a $200 sound system from Harman Kardon (the Soundsticks), and 512 mg of RAM... Definetly not a Power Mac G5.
I was thinking about an eMac, then I'd probably also be able to afford some software with it too, or perhaps an iPod.
Any further suggestions?
Originally posted by Sapper46123
I am definetly going to get a $200 sound system from Harman Kardon (the Soundsticks), and 512 mg of RAM... Definetly not a Power Mac G5.
I was thinking about an eMac, then I'd probably also be able to afford some software with it too, or perhaps an iPod.
Any further suggestions?
It could be argued, but I think an expensive set of speakers is not going to help as much with graphic design as a G5 would.
Buy the most powerful Mac hardware you can afford and accessorise later.
Lain
Use that money on the computer instead
You still can had a SuperDrive later and buy some other stuff like your Soundsticks...when you will have some more cash.
I know it's a hard choice
Originally posted by Sapper46123
I'm on a $2,000 USD budget (roughly, I could probably go $100 over) -- that includes the computer and the software, and I cannot get a discount from Apple for the computer because my school's pupils are not elgible. So, I am just focusing on the hardware at the moment.
I am definetly going to get a $200 sound system from Harman Kardon (the Soundsticks), and 512 mg of RAM... Definetly not a Power Mac G5.
I was thinking about an eMac, then I'd probably also be able to afford some software with it too, or perhaps an iPod.
Any further suggestions?
If not the G5 1.6 than definitely the dual G4 1.25ghz. Both awesome computers. I would recommend the G5, but steer clear of the eMac. The eMac is a wonderful computer, but not for heavy graphic design use.